Te views of reality as perceived by the types

[implied]

Fe PoLR are sort of color blind to the fog, and they don't contribute to it, either - they don't smoke, let us say. Fe PoLR people see the beams, but since they are blind to the fog, they are unsure if they are really seeing the beams correctly, too.

Since the fog also facilitates the visibility of the beams, a fog-poor person (or non-smoker) like an IXTp makes it difficult also for Fi types to see the correct beams between themselves and the Fe PoLR types, too. They know the beams are there, but a big of fog would be useful.

Fi-dual seeking with Fe role is different: they prefer to focus on the laser beams, and dislike the fog's "masking" effect if it contradicts the color; Fi-dual-seeking searches for "blue" people, but they are sort of afraid of seeing blue when it isn't blue. So they are relieved when the other person is more certain that it's blue than they are themselves.

this is such a good explanation of Fe-polr/Fe-role.

*claps*

[Gilly]

The Ne description is brilliant. Well done.

[XoX]

After studying these for a while I think I perhaps best identify with description. Combined with the fact that I often identify with EP temperament descriptions might mean something. Or not.

[Not A Communist Shill]

The opening of new windows is how the static-irrational Ne EPs try to break away from boredom. Another way of putting it -- Ne dominants are people whose minds are always somewhat in touch with an alternative reality, a parallel universe - or several.

I don't know if this is useful (or true), but a ISxp type might observe the windows pop up, but be unable to control them (their external environment does this). By careful observing the details of each window, they are able to determine when a window is going to reappear, and best utilise that opportunity (this is why ISFps are good at controlling the moods of people etc.). For a ENxp type, the order of windows + timing of a window's appearance is less important, because they themselves determine when these windows appear, not external factors - remembering such details is irrelevant if you are the one who determines them.

[mikemex]

I rather think that Ne is also connected with potential. Like imagine there are four dots on the paper. You can connect them with different lines. With an X or a square shape or with another way. Thats one way how Ne works.

But jumping from one task to another is very dynamic. I myself think that this is creative Ni, because ENTjs and ENFjs are the most dynamic from all the types. I the situation is not going fast enough, they will speed it up. The creative ENTJ btw, as I think, may be very EP. Always busy and restless.

Ne is also knowing ones personality and giving a characteristics to her or him. I myself find me very often in a situation, when becoming closer to someone, I will start telling her or him what hidden talents and problems she or he has. I will start suggesting to that person ways he or she could grow.

ENTps and INTjs despite the fact that they are not Ethicists, still know very well the nature of another person. Quicly they will grasp what is the essence of the man next to him or her. Quickly knowing the potential of the relationship (friendship, enemies, bordom, exitement, secrets). Quickly understanding the problems of that person (depressed, low willed, stucked into a routine, hidden possibility to a rebirth). Easily know if the person interests him or her or not (she is not interesting, but I can change her into more interesting by reaviling her bohemian secret abilities). Easily know if that person is interesting. This abilty makes Ne types into very good psychoanalysts and they can write very good characteristics of a person in a story. Take Tchechov as an example. But it also makes them sometimes immobile because they see through the person so quickly that they are dissapointed (he is ordinary, not potentially creative thinker) and may start waiting for that special character they will meet one day and not noticing the good sides of thouse boring people. This is specially usual for ENTps and INTjs.

ENFps and INFjs too have these abilities to read people, but they also have Ethics and so they can change people and make these people into someone else, knowing well how to be a psychologist for that. They like growing people into better beings and they too it altruistickly. They are natural therapists.

Damn, I can do that stuff you say about people.

Yeah, that's the point: we all can do it to some degree and act that way time to time. It's not like that, if you are XX you will always act YY. That's how logicals want to see people (in black and white), because they aren't comfortable with many shades of gray. This is even worse for logical-judgers because FDG is a good example that perceptors are more flexible.

For example, I bet that not so many logicals are aware that Fi is logics too. It's just diffuse logic, or the ability to derive conclusions from non exact or non quantifiable information elements. That's why things inherently unquantifiable, like emotions, go through there, but the logic of a Fi dominant person is no less accurate that one of a Te dominant; they just handle different things.

I think you're going too far about types.

[Expat]

Yeah, that's the point: we all can do it to some degree and act that way time to time. It's not like that, if you are XX you will always act YY. That's how logicals want to see people (in black and white), because they aren't comfortable with many shades of gray. This is even worse for logical-judgers because FDG is a good example that perceptors are more flexible.

Not only what you wrote is rubbish, you probably did not even notice the irony.

[mikemex]

Oh sorry, I got in the middle of your ego massage.

[Joy]

what's you're type mikemex?

[aestrivex]

IEE i believe.

[Joy]

really? for some reason I assume alpha. not sure why.

[aestrivex]

clarification: mikemex claims to be IEE. i have no idea about his actual type.

[Expat]

Oh sorry, I got in the middle of your ego massage.

Whether this thread is my ego massage or not is irrelevant. Let us assume that it is. Fine. So? How does that help your argument?

The point is that you wrore a lot of nonsense about logicals and logical-judgers "wanting" to see people in black and white, not realizing that you're doing exactly the same with that statement - you are seeing logical-judgers in black and white. And then you say that others (but not you, of course) are the ones "going too far about types". That is why it's ironic, and you don't seem to have noticed it.

[UDP]

Very useful Expat

[oakey]

That's an awesome description Expat. Wow.

Thank you.

Any dominant wants to comment?

Pure roXxoRz....

[Expat]

Refining some observations on Ni.

The two Ni quadras, Beta (adolescence) and Gamma (adulthood).

The Ni>Ne, or Ni>Si (it doesn't matter) preferences amount to a stronger focus on a longer-term, big-picture goal, or sense of direction, rather than on a short-term, present, detailed one, and their variations. The former is a bigger focus in adolescence and adulthood, the latter in childhood and old age (I'm using this metaphor because it's useful).

So, Betas and Gammas give more importance to a sense of "going somewhere" than Alphas and Deltas.

However, the sense of "going somewhere" - or the flow of the river, as per my metaphor - is "softened" by Ne, an awareness that that "going somewhere", while more important, remains one alternative among several. ENTps and ENFps are comfortable with both concepts.

That is the essence of the Ne PoLR, Ni hidden agenda characteristic of ESIs and LSIs. While all the other Beta and Gamma types can "deal" better with variations, or uncertainties, in the sense of the river flow, of "going somewhere", the Ne-PoLR types are greatly disturbed by them; those types have a greater need to believe that there are no such variations, hence the IMO appropriately-named ESI/LSI hidden agenda, "to believe".

Moreover --

LSIs, with Ti as dominant function, have a sense of "going somewhere" in terms of "ideology", not necessarily in terms of their lives; they need to believe that their ideology, their Ti system, is "going somewhere", hence the LSI ideological stance of Stalin and the like.

ESIs, with Fi as dominant function, have that sense in terms of their ethics and/or their personal relationships, as in, everything will be all right in this relationship, or "those people will really keep their word" etc.

So, for the LSI -- it's more disturbing when they realize that an ideological belief was deeply flawed; for an ESI, when they realize that a relationship will fail, or when somebody they trusted betrayed them.

[XoX]

After studying these for a while I think I perhaps best identify with description. Combined with the fact that I often identify with EP temperament descriptions might mean something. Or not.

I'd like to quote an older post from myself because I think this prooves that the Ne description IS really very good.

[astralsilky]

So where's the description? Or did I miss that?

[aestrivex]

So where's the description? Or did I miss that?

gee, i wonder what your "mystery type" might be.

[XoX]

So where's the description? Or did I miss that?

gee, i wonder what your "mystery type" might be.

Niffweed17. You seriously need to move out of New York. You are getting overtly cranky. At least you need a short vacation. It is like you come here nowadays only to release your stress by being negative and bitchy. You bitchy bitch.

P.S. Somehow you sound like Rocky nowadays. Any type implications? Perhaps it is just New York, lol.

[Quirk Satellite Div.]

So where's the description? Or did I miss that?

gee, i wonder what your "mystery type" might be.

Niffweed17. You seriously need to move out of New York. You are getting overtly cranky. At least you need a short vacation. It is like you come here nowadays only to release your stress by being negative and bitchy. You bitchy bitch.

P.S. Somehow you sound like Rocky nowadays. Any type implications? Perhaps it is just New York, lol.

I use to live in NYC for a few months. During the time I spent living there, I was definitely more cranky and easier to make angry than I normally was. However I was a suburbanite who was use to privacy and living a good portion of my time in personal space all to myself; a case that cannot apply to everyone. The environment of NYC, specifically Manhattan, not everyone is able to adapt to the atmosphere so easily. But if from the information I saw on the forum member map is true, he lives in Brooklyn, which in some areas are not as cramped and overbearing as in Manhattan. There seems to be a meme that crowded areas like NYC turn everyone into twitchy, fast-paced, constantly stressed cranks. Many people are able to enjoy the atmosphere, and are able to live in it as normally as people live in urban outskirts, suburbs, and rural areas, as though it's second nature. Or some people can just be cranky bitches, regardless of where they live.


Assuming these are reasonably accurate analogous to how different types function, I still can't narrow down a dominant function. I seem to identify with a little bit of each of the perceiving functions mentioned here. That's not even considering the functions that haven't been mentioned. However, I identify with going somewhere~ trying to develop a goal and work towards it, or at the very least, have a perception that I am moving somewhere in my life.

[astralsilky]

So where's the description? Or did I miss that?

gee, i wonder what your "mystery type" might be.

Niffweed17. You seriously need to move out of New York. You are getting overtly cranky. At least you need a short vacation. It is like you come here nowadays only to release your stress by being negative and bitchy. You bitchy bitch.

P.S. Somehow you sound like Rocky nowadays. Any type implications? Perhaps it is just New York, lol.

I use to live in NYC for a few months. During the time I spent living there, I was definitely more cranky and easier to make angry than I normally was. However I was a suburbanite who was use to privacy and living a good portion of my time in personal space all to myself; a case that cannot apply to everyone. The environment of NYC, specifically Manhattan, not everyone is able to adapt to the atmosphere so easily. But if from the information I saw on the forum member map is true, he lives in Brooklyn, which in some areas are not as cramped and overbearing as in Manhattan. There seems to be a meme that crowded areas like NYC turn everyone into twitchy, fast-paced, constantly stressed cranks. Many people are able to enjoy the atmosphere, and are able to live in it as normally as people live in urban outskirts, suburbs, and rural areas, as though it's second nature. Or some people can just be cranky bitches, regardless of where they live.


Assuming these are reasonably accurate analogous to how different types function, I still can't narrow down a dominant function. I seem to identify with a little bit of each of the perceiving functions mentioned here. That's not even considering the functions that haven't been mentioned. However, I identify with going somewhere~ trying to develop a goal and work towards it, or at the very least, have a perception that I am moving somewhere in my life.

So in other words: you don't know your own type, are frustrated with that - and who knows what else in life - and are taking it out on me through projective resentment, since I don't even know my own.

Based on what you've written so far, sounds like you've got >> going for you.

Anyway.

Anybody - where's the description? Is it coming? I skimmed through all these pages twice and didn't see it.

By the way, I've always tested strongest on intuition (usually ~90%).

[Quirk Satellite Div.]

Astralsilky- Are you talking to me? Are you confusing me with Niffweed17? Or were you just replying to Niffweed17 by quoting my whole post?

If you are talking to me: I was just attempting to add information about living in NYC, which was erroneous to the thread topic, but relevant to XoX's suggestion to Niffweed17 about getting some fresh air outside of NYC. I wasn't trying to discuss anything about your type. I don't know where you got the idea that I was showing animosity towards you at all in your post. If you aren't replying to me, ignore this paragraph.

[Expat]

Anybody - where's the description? Is it coming? I skimmed through all these pages twice and didn't see it.

I haven't written it yet -- I have an image but I haven't gotten to describe it in a satisfactory way. I'll give it another go.

[astralsilky]

Astralsilky- Are you talking to me? Are you confusing me with Niffweed17? yep Or were you just replying to Niffweed17 by quoting my whole post?

Oops, sorry!



I scanned/read too fast, and thought it was back-and-forth. Ugh! How embarassing. Almost makes me want to invent a new screenname and rejoin ...

AL-most.



OK, no more hit-and-run posts. That's not usually my style, anyway. I was pressed for time when I went through all that, originally, and posted my response. Please accept my apology.

[astralsilky]

Anybody - where's the description? Is it coming? I skimmed through all these pages twice and didn't see it.

I haven't written it yet -- I have an image but I haven't gotten to describe it in a satisfactory way. I'll give it another go.

I look forward to reading it!

[aestrivex]

But if from the information I saw on the forum member map is true, he lives in Brooklyn, which in some areas are not as cramped and overbearing as in Manhattan.

that's not true, actually. on that map, i merely entered in that i lived in new york city, because i believed it to be specific enough for the purposes of the map. apparently that location defaults to the middle of brooklyn on google's map service.

i actually live on the lower east side of manhattan.

[Expat]

Se types

Se types perceive reality as if it was a soccer field with a ball on it. Or a basketball court (or anything similar).

Their impulse is to get the ball moving according to what they desire at the moment. They may want to score a goal, they may also want to play with it for a while - the important thing is to get the ball moving according to what they want at the moment. They know that without their action, the ball will just stand there; and that's too boring. Much better to get it moving. They may also have longer-term goal - to score points - but that's secondary to that first impulse.

The simplest and most obvious way to get the ball moving is to do it by yourself. There may be situations where it's a bit complicated. Perhaps there are obstacles on the field, perhaps there are other people trying to get the ball moving the way they want it to move - not yours. Se types want to get the ball moving their way, so they are naturally ready to confront others: "leave my ball alone!" If you want to keep the ball moving the way you want, you have to be ready for confrontations.

There are two ways to approach this beyond simple direct confrontation. The ESTp use their logical analysis of the obstacles - or adversaries - to find the best way to get the ball moving the way they want. This way may include other people, or it may not. Usually the ESTp regard other people as other forms of obstacle, and are satisfied if they seem to be harmless.

The ESFp, by contrast, do not rely on their own logical analysis: they prefer to get the ball moving the way they want - especially in the face of opposition from others - by establishing connections with other people, who either also want to move the ball the same way or can be persuaed to do so by the ESFp. The ESTp are basically contented not to have enemies on the path of their logical analysis; the ESFp actively need and want close connections with those that will help them.

Going back to my previous analysis of Ni types - the boat on the river metaphor.

Suppose that the "soccer field" is actually on the deck of the boat. The Ni IP are there on their observation point, watching the Se EP going about getting the ball going. Their role is to warn the Se EP of possible consequences of their actions. The INTp tells the ESFp, "if you try to run that way again, you may fall off the deck"; the INFp tells the ESTp, "watch out about being so rude to that guy, he may go out of his way to be an obstacle, Be nicer to him".

[astralsilky]

Se types

Se types perceive reality as if it was a soccer field with a ball on it {...}

What a peculiar worldview.


Thank you, expat!

I admit, the boundary between Se and Te does not seem entirely distinct in the course of interpretation - both yours, and on other typology sites. Goal-oriented activity. I have also wondered if sometimes theorists have attributed more "willpower" and activity to Se than need be, not to mention "materialism."

What if Se was merely sensory, environmental awareness? In the extreme cases, such persons may actually not be very active at all. It could be an excellent initial condition. But what if someone was HYPERaware? They might even be reluctant to act, due to "seeing too much." Perhaps that is "underdeveloped" Se, and in time some learn how to maximize their awareness and exude confidence, get physically active, etc. Yet maybe, some can't. Maybe they're extreme types. Maybe they even test as N's as a result. Does this seem plausible to anyone?

Which types would be the most sensitive to apprehending physical beauty for all its worth? My guess would be Se.

[Expat]

I admit, the boundary between Se and Te does not seem entirely distinct in the course of interpretation - both yours, and on other typology sites. Goal-oriented activity. I have also wondered if sometimes theorists have attributed more "willpower" and activity to Se than need be, not to mention "materialism."

Te and Se have very distinct motivations. Te has a goal; Se is more about an impulse. Te is about understanding and imposing a rational order on own's situational environment. Se is about always affecting one's physical environment. The willpower aspect is a consequence of that.

What if Se was merely sensory, environmental awareness? In the extreme cases, such persons may actually not be very active at all. It could be an excellent initial condition.

No. That is Si, not Se.

But what if someone was HYPERaware? They might even be reluctant to act, due to "seeing too much." Perhaps that is "underdeveloped" Se, and in time some learn how to maximize their awareness and exude confidence, get physically active, etc. Yet maybe, some can't. Maybe they're extreme types. Maybe they even test as N's as a result. Does this seem plausible to anyone?

Which types would be the most sensitive to apprehending physical beauty for all its worth? My guess would be Se.

No, you're not making the proper distinction between Se and Si.

Si is the one about perceiving physical reality and sensations - or beauty, if you will - as it is; Se is about a drive to affect physical reality according to your impulses.

The "materialism" in Se is a consequence of the drive to affect physical reality.

[Park]

The ISTp is in an automatic, high-tech kind of place; the people attending to it are minimal. The temperature of the bath is regulated automatically; the food is cooked by robots, the garden is watered automatically. The ISTp knows that all the instruments must be working perfectly to keep his sensations at optimal level.

, LOL, sort of ...

[astralsilky]

I admit, the boundary between Se and Te does not seem entirely distinct in the course of interpretation - both yours, and on other typology sites. Goal-oriented activity. I have also wondered if sometimes theorists have attributed more "willpower" and activity to Se than need be, not to mention "materialism."

Te and Se have very distinct motivations. Te has a goal; Se is more about an impulse. Te is about understanding and imposing a rational order on own's situational environment. Se is about always affecting one's physical environment. The willpower aspect is a consequence of that.

Thank you, Expat. So would you say it is accurate to associate Se with physical energy levels? Or even, just radiating that energy through the body (e.g., some dancers have that ability - some do not)? On second thought, the latter proposition now sounds Si, per the definitions you've clarified ...

What if Se was merely sensory, environmental awareness? In the extreme cases, such persons may actually not be very active at all. It could be an excellent initial condition.

No. That is Si, not Se.

In Socionics. OK, thanks. I'm always questioning the definitions, between MBTI, Socionics, and some other Jungian reading I've taken in (e.g., Lenore Thomson). There are contradictary definitions out there, so I continually question them, look at 'em from all angles. For example, Thomson associates Se with environmental awareness as well as physical responsiveness.

Do you also associate Si with one's "historical tally of sensory experiences"? I've come to associate Si with history, identity, sense of rootedness, and even safety - in addition to internal physiological functioning.

But what if someone was HYPERaware? They might even be reluctant to act, due to "seeing too much." Perhaps that is "underdeveloped" Se, and in time some learn how to maximize their awareness and exude confidence, get physically active, etc. Yet maybe, some can't. Maybe they're extreme types. Maybe they even test as N's as a result. Does this seem plausible to anyone?

Which types would be the most sensitive to apprehending physical beauty for all its worth? My guess would be Se.

No, you're not making the proper distinction between Se and Si.

Si is the one about perceiving physical reality and sensations - or beauty, if you will - as it is; Se is about a drive to affect physical reality according to your impulses.

The "materialism" in Se is a consequence of the drive to affect physical reality.

So the ISFp would be the most sensitive to beauty, by these definitions, followed by ISTp.

I have read that Se types can go through an extreme phase of shyness during the early part of their lives until learning how to come to grips with their "power." Would you also agree with this, based on your readings, ponderings, and/or observations of others?

I appreciate your clarifications and input.

[XoX]

I have read that Se types can go through an extreme phase of shyness during the early part of their lives until learning how to come to grips with their "power." Would you also agree with this, based on your readings, ponderings, and/or observations of others?

I know that some ESTps at least can be quite shy when young. I would think ESFps are way less likely to be shy. I'm not sure about the introverted Se-types like ISFj and ISTj because they are generally more silent and it is hard to see if they are "shy" or just silent, heh. In ESTps you can easily see when they are acting shy because the difference to their "natural act" is considerable.

[XoX]

I have read that Se types can go through an extreme phase of shyness during the early part of their lives until learning how to come to grips with their "power." Would you also agree with this, based on your readings, ponderings, and/or observations of others?

I know that some ESTps at least can be quite shy when young. I would think ESFps are way less likely to be shy. I'm not sure about the introverted Se-types like ISFj and ISTj because they are generally more silent and it is hard to see if they are "shy" or just silent, heh. In ESTps you can easily see when they are acting shy because the difference to their "natural act" is considerable.

[jas05]

The ISTp is in an automatic, high-tech kind of place; the people attending to it are minimal. The temperature of the bath is regulated automatically; the food is cooked by robots, the garden is watered automatically. The ISTp knows that all the instruments must be working perfectly to keep his sensations at optimal level.

If things are working well, the ISTp feels good.

This made me retype a friend of mine who I'd initially considered to be an ESFj (because of an online MBTI test he made), then later an ISFp. Now it seems he is an ISTp, and I think I'm now more sure about his type than I've been before.

I want to understand how things work; he just wants to have them work (so that he can use them).

[jas05]

The ISTp is in an automatic, high-tech kind of place; the people attending to it are minimal. The temperature of the bath is regulated automatically; the food is cooked by robots, the garden is watered automatically. The ISTp knows that all the instruments must be working perfectly to keep his sensations at optimal level.

If things are working well, the ISTp feels good.

This made me retype a friend of mine who I'd initially considered to be an ESFj (because of an online MBTI test he made), then later an ISFp. Now it seems he is an ISTp, and I think I'm now more sure about his type than I've been before.

I want to understand how things work; he just wants to have them work (so that he can use them).

[stevENTj]

Great thread. Bravo Expat.

I seem to be a cross between the Te/ENTj and Ni/INTp descriptions (lol, what a shocker ), and I also identified strongly with the Ne description ("open windows"), but not as much as with the others (I always had strong Ne on mcnew's old tests).

I'll have to post some feedback on some of the descriptions as time allows. I think I've known and interacted with enough ISTp's now (and my mom is an ISFp) to maybe help out a bit with the Si sections.

[Expat]

Thanks

I'm thinking of writing new versions of Te and Si; it's not that I think these are wrong, but I think they are incomplete. I have to think of Ti, too. In Si's case, I focused on own sensations, without including the here-and-now detailed awareness of one's surroundings.

I still think that Ne, Ni, Fe, Fi and Se are accurate and rather good, if I may say so.

I would expect Ni dominants to identify with the Ne one, too. In my own case, it's something I can easily visualize and relate to, but not something I actually have as a frequent experience.

[stevENTj]

I'd have to say that ISTp's are definitely sensation driven. From the automotive forums, while everybody else is chit-chatting, ISTp's are the ones that are offline, wrenching on their own in their garage, building some massive 500hp beast out of an ordinary car. They like going fast and the sensations that that gives them. When they go to the racetrack it's not for recognition like maybe an ESTp, but purely for an Si sensational thrill standpoint. An ISTp at work started a sky diving club. That same guy has a whole showcase of various empty hot sauce (tobasco, etc) bottles on top of a cabinet in his office, having probably used each and every one and able to tell you precisely how each one tastes and feels. Another ISTp I know loves fine foods and restaurants, and the feel of a great hotel with top notch service. They always know where exactly to go to eat and where exactly to stay for a great experience. I also ran into an ISTp mattress salesman once. He could break down and classify every different type of mattress for me (Te) and then how exactly it should make me "feel" (Si). He was extremely helpful because what he was pointing out I never would have noticed on my own. What I care about mattresses is "can I sleep good at night or not", but he could help me tell if i would or not almost immediately with more attention to Si. With PoLR-Fe they're not necessarily all that sociable or "active" at least to the observer which is similar to INTp's. They can appear rather cold and detached, which is probably not much different than INTp's in that regard.

I'd love to see a Ti description, esp ISTj. At least my experience with several IxTj types is that it'd probably be extremely similar to IxFj's only logical instead of ethical. ie an ISTj likes to have blue laser beams established with other people of similarly oriented Ti thinking, but has red laser beam death rays towards those with different logical ideologies. They very firmly believe that things should be done in a particular Ti-oriented way, and can have a meltdown when they find out that that Ti method is obsolete or just plain wrong to begin with. ie opposed ISTj groups would be fighting over which "type" of engine is best for the boat, even if both provided similar performance and efficiency in the end. Blue laser beams would be established with ISTj's that think that the "Type #1" engine is the best, and red laser beams established with others who believe another type is the best. The INTj would probably match with the INFj where they're looking more at the potential of different Ti concepts and all they could be. Maybe to tie in with your previous analogy, perhaps the ISTj would be the one in the engine room of that boat looking over all the guages making sure that everything is EXACTLY as they should be, pacing back and forth continually watching everything. On the contrary a Te type might only care if something seemed amiss, whereas the Ti ISTj is more paranoid and continually watching, always afraid something will go wrong and fearing the unknown (PoLR Ne). The INTj might be the one continually analyzing boat performance trying to tweak and optimize for better performance, even if the change in performance would never even be noticeable to the ENTj who is "net results" time and efficiency related. The INTj could make it their life to optimize sub-system performance that in the end has little to no bearing on overall performance.

[stevENTj]

Elaborating a bit...

For the boat, take Engine Type A and Type B. Both have similar power, will accelerate the boat at about the same rate, push it at a similar speed, take up similar space, weigh similarly, and are about as efficient as each other, but are fundamentally different in design. To an ENTj, which engine simply doesn't matter so long as it gets them to where they want to go as quickly and as efficiently as possible. The ISTj's will be obsessed over the Ti qualities of each design though. To them, they don't care where they go, how they get there, or how quickly or efficiently they get there so long as the boat is being powered by their preferred flavor of engine design. "I would rather walk the 10 miles home after my broken down Ford left me stranded than be picked up and given a ride for free in a Chevy." is something an ISTj would likely say.

On the contrary, the INTj would be looking at both Engine Type A and Type B an admiring the finer qualities of both and where they're different. They know that no engine type or design philosophy is perfect, and would try to imagine the potential of Engine Type A if only it could be given the virtues of Engine Type B, and vice versa. ie esp in boat applications turbodiesel engines and gas/petrol engines both have advantage and disadvantages, but they are fundamentally different so you can't really mix or blend qualities from the two. An INTj will find a way to make that happen (along with ENTp's). And actually, there is a ton of research being done in the automotive powertrain world right now directly along those lines. It's called HCCI. An INTj would gladly take a ride from someone in a Chevy to learn about their Chevy and all that it offers, since it's an opportunity to learn about a different Ti ideology.

I've noticed that INFj's seem to like to talk to people a lot to get their views on different Fi principles. I've noticed the same in INTj's, only wanting to talk to people a lot to get their views on different Ti principles. ie the INFj will want to see what someone thinks of Fi ethical view A vs view B, with the INTj wanting different views on Ti principle A vs B.

[Expat]

I'm not sure that the "laser beams" analogy describes the essence of ISTj's Ti in terms of other individuals.

ISTjs have their own sense of Fi bonding with others, but that is subject to Ti. Their Fi role is shaped by their Ti sense of what the "correct" relationship to a given person is - hence the perception that ISTjs are often honor- and duty-bound. They do not really feel the raw Fi bond with another person as Fi types do; their Ti tells them what their Fi is "supposed" to be.

So, that may include - and it often does ime - a sense of friendship and duty with someone with whom they share no ideologies at all; it may have had its origin in working together, with a sense of trust and mutual obligation developing. The ISTj may well think that the other person is an idiot, or naive, or whatever, for not seeing the "truth" or the "obvious"; it doesn't mean that the ISTj will necessarily not want to have anything to do with them.