Does that show the limits of socionic relationships ?

[machintruc]

I watched the Nip/Tuck series (all the first 3 seasons), and analysed the two main characters :

Christian is probably ENTj, at ease with "the game of life", sociable, commercial, happy but reactive.

Sean is probably ISFj, empathetic, ethical, compliant, contained, inhibited, passive-aggressive.

there seems to be a dual relationship. but at times, they were very conflicting ; I'm not giving examples to avoid spoiling.

this series seems to illustrate the limits of socionic relationships, by displaying "hate energy" in families and friendships.

[tcaudilllg]

Two possibilities:
conflictor exertion relations, or relations between people of opposing contexts/out-sync information metabolisms. Or a third possibility: both at once.

Both at once is a recipe for trouble.

[UDP]

The sheer fact of the mattter is that socionics has nothing to do with how people ultimately&actually interact in relationships.

Bottom line - type has nothing to do with ultimate relationship success.

Socionics is like any other tool for analysis - consider financial statement analysis in accounting. You can understand the numbers, the stats, all you want - know all the ratios, know all the information, etc -- but numbers on paper don't correlate with reality. Numbers are static, reality is not -- especially humans. Financial statement analysis raises questions, it does not answer them. Socionics is the same way - it provides an oppertunity for understanding and consideration, but ultimately it is up to you.

Often said after big upsets in the sports world:

"Games aren't played on paper" - meaning, statistics and past record, analysis... that isn't what decides the game. In just the same way,

"relationships aren't lived in textbooks" (or as it were, socionics discussion forums)




Socionics analysis can provide lots of tips and understanding, which is essential, but a person's ultimate relationship capabilities are not a part of socionics. So I believe the title of this thread is incorrect. Socionics is what it is, and I still think it a beautiful theory (If I didn't, I wouldn't be here ((rimshot))). But I don't think it is reasonable to claim that a relationship failed or succeeded based on socionics, or that just because you meet a dual you don't have to put forth any effort, etc etc etc. It presents a false image of socionics. (IMO)

[Slacker]

Well, this is fiction too.

[Creepy-bg]

Well, this is fiction too.

!

[Rick]

edited

[Joy]

Sean is very ESTj. Christian is ENTj. I'm very confident in these typings.

Other typings from the show:
Julia: ISFj
Matt: ESFp
Kimber: oh boy... that's a tough one... there wasn't enough continuity in her character... ENFj? INFp?
Annie: could be INFp (in the future episode)
Liz: INTp (possibly ISTp)

[discojoe]

I watched the Nip/Tuck series (all the first 3 seasons), and analysed the two main characters :

Christian is probably ENTj, at ease with "the game of life", sociable, commercial, happy but reactive.

Sean is probably ISFj, empathetic, ethical, compliant, contained, inhibited, passive-aggressive.

there seems to be a dual relationship. but at times, they were very conflicting ; I'm not giving examples to avoid spoiling.

this series seems to illustrate the limits of socionic relationships, by displaying "hate energy" in families and friendships.

You suck at socionics, because Sean is the most stereotypical ESTj on television. He in no ways resembles an ISFj.

[machintruc]

Sean is the most stereotypical ESTj on television. He in no ways resembles an ISFj.

ISFj's resembles ESTj's because both tend to be pessimistic, and both are "aggressive" types. but an ESTj is more objective and initiating than an ISFj.

[Joy]

Sean is the most stereotypical ESTj on television. He in no ways resembles an ISFj.

ISFj's resembles ESTj's because both tend to be pessimistic, and both are "aggressive" types. but an ESTj is more objective and initiating than an ISFj.

Sean always seems to be faced with some Fi dilema, and he's never certain about what he should do. He's always trying to do the right thing, but he often makes unwise decisions in his attempts to do so. He needs Fi guidance.

[spoil:00d5d82c86]ESTjs always try to be the "good guy", which is apparent throughout the show, but never more so than with the situation with the midget. ESTjs do whatever they can to take care of people and be the "good guy", but when their dual seeking function is betrayed they go over the top and turn into total assholes in record time. When they lose their cool it looks a lot like the situation where he pushed Julia up against the refrigerator and when he punched Matt and when he smashed up that car that was in his way in the parking garage and when he attacked that bum (and then he did the typical ESTj "good guy" thing and offered to fix it and let the guy sleep in his clinic that night). And if an ESTj loses his family or a close friend, he just falls apart... just like Sean and the whole drinking thing when Julia left.[/spoil:00d5d82c86]

And ISFjs are aggressive in a different way than ESTjs are. ESTjs are aggressive in the way I described above, the "lose it and turn into an asshole" way. ISFjs are aggressive in more of a vigilante way, and there's a certain "coldness" to them. ESTjs try to be warm. ISFjs may be friendly or polite, but they don't try to be warm the same way ESTjs do.

Everything about Sean screams ESTj. I think the writers base his character on someone they know irl or something, because I've never seen such a perfect example of an ESTj in fiction. The ESTj hidden agenda is even there.

Now... Christian is ENTj, but he looks ESTp because he's broken. He's never had a family, was abused growing up, etc... basically he's never really had his dual seeking function fulfilled. Poor guy... [spoil:00d5d82c86]When he finally trusted someone enough to settle down, she vanished on their wedding day and sent a letter saying she didn't want to be with him... Fi betrayal. At that point he did the ExTj thing and turned into a total asshole (even more so than he was to begin with). When he found out that she was actually kidnapped and she was rescued, she didn't want to be with him anymore. Then he thought he was going to be a father and tried to build a family with Gina, but she was a bitchy skank and he lost his son because of it. Then he was going to settle down with Michelle, and he even got his son back , but she betrayed him as well. He didn't find out until after she'd legally adopted the kid... and at the end of the last season he moved to California, so we'll see if there ends up being some sort of custody battle or something. Probably not because I think the writers just want to be done with Michelle. Anyways... [/spoil:00d5d82c86]

The difference between the way ESTjs and ENTjs handle Fi betrayal by turning into an asshole that ESTjs are more sudden about it than ENTjs. The change can be very fast, and they can change back very quickly too and start trying to be the "good guy" again, being extremely generous and helping people and whatnot.

[discojoe]

^Yep.