How to communicate with an ILI-INTp

[Snakeingrass]

There are a few things to keep in mind, should the fates conspire against you and force you into communication with an INTp. This short, friendly and helpful guide is here to help you survive the experience and build a strong and lasting relationship.

Phase one: Contact

If you are in the same room with an INTp, it’s pretty much a given that you have to make the first step. The INTp is perfectly happy remaining silent – if you do the same, the INTp will just presume you need to think about something interesting, important or both and usually will not break the silence.

If you are wandering what the INTp might be thinking about in the uncomfortable (depends on your type – your mileage may vary) silence, it can be anything, but in normal circumstances, unless you are noticeably attractive and of ‚interesting gender’ or just behaving very irregularly, the INTp is NOT thinking anything about you. In case they noticed you – you are already in the ‚other people’ section of their brain.

When you start breaking the ice, remember the following:

- Be polite. Due to their Fe PoLR, INTps tend to embrace the idea of adhering to the general rules of politeness. Speaking from personal experience, they can even go as far as to avoid bringing anyone red roses for birthday, since according to old rules of etiquette, red roses mean romantic interest and rather serious intentions. For anyone interested – white roses are safe.
- Don’t be overly familiar. Again – Fe PoLR. They will think you are either mocking them or just insincere.
- Choose an unexpected topic. They will most likely not be offended by it, and the risk is worth taking – this way they WILL remember you. If you start talking about the weather, you’ll end up in the memory slot labeled ‚Smalltalk, general, from everyone’. If you go ‚Hmm... I was wandering – if I drew imaginary lines from the tip of the chandelier to all the corners of the room, could the resulting shape contain more than 700 gallons of water or not...’, you’ll definitely be remembered as ‚someone interesting’, since you stimulated their Ni and Te both.


...In the next installation - Phase two: Getting to know each other...

[Kristiina]

lol. then I can see why my INTp liked me - seems I did most of it right. Including the awfully silly topics part.

[krieger]

Thanks, nicely written.

- Don’t be overly familiar. Again – Fe PoLR. They will think you are either mocking them or just insincere.

The Fe PoLR was quite an obstacle in talking to an INTp I used to work with. It seemed to upset him when I just greeted him too enthusiastically.

[quote]If you go ‚Hmm... I was wandering – if I drew imaginary lines from the tip of the chandelier to all the corners of the room, could the resulting shape contain more than 700 gallons of water or not...’, you’ll definitely be remembered as ‚someone interesting’[/qoute]

Now there's a good way to tell INTp's apart from the INTj's... :wink:

[Phaedrus]

If you go ‚Hmm... I was wandering – if I drew imaginary lines from the tip of the chandelier to all the corners of the room, could the resulting shape contain more than 700 gallons of water or not...’, you’ll definitely be remembered as ‚someone interesting’

Now there's a good way to tell INTp's apart from the INTj's... :wink:

I presume that you mean that you can't tell them apart that way, but I almost never know for sure what you INTjs mean. Maybe INTjs are more inclined to use irony than INTps?

[krieger]

Actually it was not irony what I wrote there. The question in the quote would quite frankly annoy me to death. I'd endeavor to find the right answer to it for the sake of proving myself, but to actually be aroused by a calculation/estimation problem? Never. If I didn't know any better I'd say it's a typical INTj thing. Are you saying you have different experiences?

Ok. Thought about it some more. Maybe I would look upon the person who posed such a question as 'interesting', simply because the question brought something 'new' into my life. I could think of a few 'bizarre' problems that I would enjoy solving more than this one, though.

[Phaedrus]

Actually it was not irony what I wrote there. The question in the quote would quite frankly annoy me to death. I'd endeavor to find the right answer to it for the sake of proving myself, but to actually be aroused by a calculation/estimation problem? Never. If I didn't know any better I'd say it's a typical INTj thing. Are you saying you have different experiences?

Ok. Thought about it some more. Maybe I would look upon the person who posed such a question as 'interesting', simply because the question brought something 'new' into my life. I could think of a few 'bizarre' problems that I would enjoy solving more than this one, though.

I'm not sure what to think about it. In general I sometimes like and even pose bizarre problems, but pure calculation problems are not my favourites. I would prefer logical problems or very original, even absurd, scenarios or ways of thinking.

By the way, do you think that Ganin's INTj uncovered description gives us a more or less correct view on INTjs? The part about building a bridge might be relevant to this discussion.

http://www.socionics.com/prof/intj2.htm

[krieger]

The part about building a bridge along the river probably aims at how we tend to look at the merit of ideas disjunctly from the reality of 'moving and working' things, thus evaluating the idea before assessing it's applicability instead of the other way around. Looking for the 'elevated' idea that circumvents or side-steps the problem is an Alpha NT thing, I believe. This would be in line with how smilingeyes* used to describe Ti as 'clever' and Ne as 'a direct refusal to join in the rat-race'. The results of such an attempt can of course be groudbreaking, but also comical and senseless, like building a bridge along a river.

The rest is difficult to assess. It's hard to see where Ganin is being serious and where he is not. I will not deny that there is a hint of truth in some of the passages, but when I interpret the text literally I cannot relate it to myself. The part on 'overtightening the screws' did strike a chord.

* unfortunately the narratives perished in the tragedy of late...

[mike_INTJ]

you also have to be willing to talk about absurd topics or total fantasy. this drives me crazy at work calling me weird and such. i want to talk about cartoon physics, and everyone says it's not real and then it's silence again. where as my family has no problems with the topic and we'll argue it until something makes sense.

[Tov]

If one came up to me and asked me that question I would ask them why they are asking me that question throwing in how stupid it is depending on how personably I know the person.

[UDP]

Actually it was not irony what I wrote there. The question in the quote would quite frankly annoy me to death. I'd endeavor to find the right answer to it for the sake of proving myself, but to actually be aroused by a calculation/estimation problem? Never. If I didn't know any better I'd say it's a typical INTj thing. Are you saying you have different experiences?

Ok. Thought about it some more. Maybe I would look upon the person who posed such a question as 'interesting', simply because the question brought something 'new' into my life. I could think of a few 'bizarre' problems that I would enjoy solving more than this one, though.

I can confirm that my own reaction would be very similar to your intial one, and I can also say for sure that I am not ILI.

Personally, if anyone comes up and asks me a math problem right off the bat, they go into the "This fool is going to have to do some explaining if he wants me to take him serious file", which is a subfolder of "not my agenda at all", which is in a folder consisting of subfolders that have to do with how far something deviates from my agenda

Contact/Interaction
--> (accessed)

Current (Personal) Agenda || Gender(physical apperance, etc) || External Situation(where I'm at) ||  (etc etc etc)........
--> (CPA accessed)


------> Current Agenda Analysis:
--->(completley my agenda) 
100%|| 
90% || 
80% || 
...%|| 
00% || (not my agenda at all)
->

---> 0.0%:: (further specificaitons,etc)
"Current Agenda far too important for interaction" || 
"I am not in the mood to discuss things aside from current agenda" || 
... ||
"This fool is going to have to do some explaining if he wants me to take him serious file" || ...

etc etc etc. That's a very general, simplified version of course. But I felt like using the code button for some reason

[ragnar]

if I drew imaginary lines from the tip of the chandelier to all the corners of the room, could the resulting shape contain more than 700 gallons of water or not

It kind of works with me, but I would not classify the question as "interesting", but rather a somewhat boring and pointless piece of mental work.

With me, a better question would probably be more abstract, open ended, and involve less step-by-step reasoning, f.i.: "What do you think about pentagonal floor plans in architecture?", "How do languages change with time?", "What's the purpose of socionics/mathematical research/whatever, really?", etc.

Or even better: "Let me buy you a beer, which do you prefer?"


Greetings, ragnar
(Probably NiTe).

[Exodus]

if I drew imaginary lines from the tip of the chandelier to all the corners of the room, could the resulting shape contain more than 700 gallons of water or not

It kind of works with me, but I would not classify the question as "interesting", but rather a somewhat boring and pointless piece of mental work.

Well put.

I also think that some INTps would find it too random and anti-Te.

[reyn_til_runa]

Hmm... I was wandering – if I drew imaginary lines from the tip of the chandelier to all the corners of the room, could the resulting shape contain more than 700 gallons of water or not...’

Appealing.

Interest lies in the relationship between chandelier (is it swaying? is it lit?what if it falls?) corners of room (dusty? how high is that ceiling anyway?) and 700 gal of water (how about galllons of icecream, stacked?). For each object, there are many possibilites to entertain, making the resulting picture in my mind pretty trippy. Imagine actually putting all that water in that space. What would happen to the chandelier? Which brings me to thinking about electric shock and that kid in my class who died in the swimming pool.

[aestrivex]

if I drew imaginary lines from the tip of the chandelier to all the corners of the room, could the resulting shape contain more than 700 gallons of water or not

It kind of works with me, but I would not classify the question as "interesting", but rather a somewhat boring and pointless piece of mental work.

Well put.

I also think that some INTps would find it too random and anti-Te.

definitely. not necessarily too random (randomidity is good) but the wrong kind of random. really not a very interesting thing to think about.

[vigilante]

An ILI prefers a question with an open end as opposed to questions with a subjectively systematic solution.

[.thursday]

An ILI prefers a question with an open end as opposed to questions with a subjectively systematic solution.

tru (for me, at least)

i'm hesitant to affirm statements that will make people act this way:

"i think he is an intp (or ____ type) so i'm going to treat him this way"

instead of 'being yourself' (whatever that means) and learning over time who the other person is and what makes them tick.

for me the most beneficial thing about socionics is it has caused me to slow down and listen to people and understand their point of view, instead of just arguing or disagreeing or agreeing or whatever, knowing that it is probably formulated differently then mine own. and that skill i think (listening and trying to understand) is valuable when interacting with any type. /end mini rant

[Jonathan]

I think the points suggested in this thread are really good ones...especially the chandelier thing. It's interesting that INTjs apparently wouldn't like that opener, according to Labcoat.

The one point I'd make though is that INTps' appearance of reservedness is generally misleading. I think it's true that an INTp would be very careful not to offend, worrying about if he/she is breaking some sort of rule of etiquette, and therefore opting not to say/do anything sometimes. But I don't think INTps are bothered by other people breaking these rules.

In general, INTps will respond easily to people who take the initiative to engage them (unless it's a male/female thing and the INTp doesn't find the initiator attractive).

[Jonathan]

One other quick point: Not everyone is the extreme or "classic" form of their type. So in fact some INTps may notice other people and initiate conversations more than the "classic INTp."

[implied]

"i think he is an intp (or ____ type) so i'm going to treat him this way"

yes, this is gd frustrating and i agree. it is really super duper counter productive in a lot of cases, too.

[discojoe]

THROW THEM ON THE BED AND MAKE OUT

[drd252]

THROW THEM ON THE BED AND MAKE OUT

Excellent approach!

[Snakeingrass]

The promised second installation... Sorry it took so long, but other events have kept my attention for a while.

Phase Two: Getting to know an INTp

This phase could very well be the most interesting part in your relationship with an INTp. Why? Well, first of all – it’s the phase where the INTp is getting to know YOU. Expect many questions from the INTp. Also, in some cases, if you happen to be labeled as a ‚Really interesting person’ you should expect a full-blown interrogation. The reason behind such behaviour is simple – the INTp really wants to find out why he or she is interested in you. While the reason is simple, the INTp will definitely NOT settle for simple answers. Let me illustrate the logic behind this behaviour with a sample thought process of an INTp:

1. I find this person interesting. Before event X, I didn’t. That can mean the following:
_____a. I changed somehow
_____b. The person in question changed somehow
_____c. I found out something about the person that changed my perception
2. If I changed, I need to find out what triggered the change, what the change is and whether it is a good thing.
3. If the person in question changed, I need to find out what triggered the change, what the change is, why do I like it and how can I trigger such changes in other people.
4. If my perception about the person changed based on some information I didn’t previously have, there might be more information available which might lead to even more interesting things. I must find out everything about the person and see what happens.

The thought process might or might not be conscious – the results are usually the same. Let’s have a quick look at how the resulting behaviour affects communication:

The good:
- You can ask almost any question from the INTp and get an answer – the INTp sees it as an even trade for information about you.
- You will usually have the undivided attention of the INTp whenever you want.
- You can discuss absolutely any topic with the INTp, since your opinions on all sorts of matters might be important clues to ‚figuring you out’.

The bad:
- The INTp WILL ask many questions from you and some of those might seem deeply personal to you (the INTp will of course remain absolutely oblivious to the fact that you might resent some questions. Should you point it out, the INTp will be confused).
- During this phase, the INTp will seek opportunities to give you undivided attention. Due to weak Fe of the INTp, it might or might not happen at unopportune moments.
- The INTp will try to discuss absolutely any topics with you, many of which you might find boring or worse.

This phase also houses many debates and discussions. Some people might see them as arguments, but not an INTp. Important thing to remember here is that positions an INTp takes in a debate do NOT necessarily represent his or her actual convictions. As an intellectual excercise it’s not unusual at all for an INTp to vigorously defend an opinion and in the next debate to oppose it with zeal.

Why, you might ask. Usually the INTp simply wants to observe your methods of thinking – how do you verify your facts, how do you reach conclusions, what arguments are effective against you. It might seem invasive, but it’s important to the INTp, since they need well-defined methods of approaching people. Unless you participate in these debates, they will have no idea how to convince you of something or even how to ask a favor from you – and that will cause them to keep distance from you.

Well - this is it for the second installation. I hope I can stay focused enough to describe the third phase, though there might not be much to say. As far as I can say, after these two phases have passed, the INTp will start to act almost like a normal person... :wink:

[ragnar]

in some cases, if you happen to be labeled as a ‚Really interesting person’ you should expect a full-blown interrogation.

Some INTp are really passive at first, though - the approacher needs to take care that the INTp feels like it's safe to open up a bit.

You can ask almost any question from the INTp and get an answer – the INTp sees it as an even trade for information about you.

I would not use the term "trade" here - to many INTps, giving answers is a pleasure in itself - you get to show off your competence to someone who evidently appreciates it, really a setup for good things to come, especially if the approacher turns out to be a potential employer or an interesting MOTOS ...
well, nerds have dreams too

your opinions on all sorts of matters might be important clues to ‚figuring you out’.

Yes! Too bad some women really HATE becoming "objects of study" - especially ISTps. Many ISFjs too, I guess. I talk from unhappy experience ...

The INTp WILL ask many questions from you and some of those might seem deeply personal to you

That phase may be a long time coming, though - many INTps are quite timid.

I got the impression you mainly describe mature, self confident and socially adequate INTps in this installment.


Greetings, Ragnar (prob. INTp).

[Snakeingrass]

I got the impression you mainly describe mature, self confident and socially adequate INTps in this installment.

You might be on to something here. This text is based on the behaviour of three people I know to be INTp, me being one of them. The main goal was simply to share my observations (and my 1337 writing skills, of course) and get some feedback.

Whether any of them/us qualifies as mature, self-confident and socially adequate - maybe. We are all in our late twenties, quite successful in our chosen fields, and in long-term relationships or simply married.

I hope the social background information gives you some additional insight.

[.thursday]

"i think he is an intp (or ____ type) so i'm going to treat him this way"

yes, this is gd frustrating and i agree. it is really super duper counter productive in a lot of cases, too.

my enfp friend read keirsey and tried to encourage me (thinking of me as 'the architect' by) saying "that was a great idea! you have great ideas!" or something like that. i just squinted my eyes at him like, what is wrong with you.

[aestrivex]

The promised second installation... Sorry it took so long, but other events have kept my attention for a while.

Phase Two: Getting to know an INTp

This phase could very well be the most interesting part in your relationship with an INTp. Why? Well, first of all – it’s the phase where the INTp is getting to know YOU. Expect many questions from the INTp. Also, in some cases, if you happen to be labeled as a ‚Really interesting person’ you should expect a full-blown interrogation. The reason behind such behaviour is simple – the INTp really wants to find out why he or she is interested in you. While the reason is simple, the INTp will definitely NOT settle for simple answers. Let me illustrate the logic behind this behaviour with a sample thought process of an INTp:

1. I find this person interesting. Before event X, I didn’t. That can mean the following:
_____a. I changed somehow
_____b. The person in question changed somehow
_____c. I found out something about the person that changed my perception
2. If I changed, I need to find out what triggered the change, what the change is and whether it is a good thing.
3. If the person in question changed, I need to find out what triggered the change, what the change is, why do I like it and how can I trigger such changes in other people.
4. If my perception about the person changed based on some information I didn’t previously have, there might be more information available which might lead to even more interesting things. I must find out everything about the person and see what happens.

The thought process might or might not be conscious – the results are usually the same. Let’s have a quick look at how the resulting behaviour affects communication:

The good:
- You can ask almost any question from the INTp and get an answer – the INTp sees it as an even trade for information about you.
- You will usually have the undivided attention of the INTp whenever you want.
- You can discuss absolutely any topic with the INTp, since your opinions on all sorts of matters might be important clues to ‚figuring you out’.

The bad:
- The INTp WILL ask many questions from you and some of those might seem deeply personal to you (the INTp will of course remain absolutely oblivious to the fact that you might resent some questions. Should you point it out, the INTp will be confused).
- During this phase, the INTp will seek opportunities to give you undivided attention. Due to weak Fe of the INTp, it might or might not happen at unopportune moments.
- The INTp will try to discuss absolutely any topics with you, many of which you might find boring or worse.

This phase also houses many debates and discussions. Some people might see them as arguments, but not an INTp. Important thing to remember here is that positions an INTp takes in a debate do NOT necessarily represent his or her actual convictions. As an intellectual excercise it’s not unusual at all for an INTp to vigorously defend an opinion and in the next debate to oppose it with zeal.

Why, you might ask. Usually the INTp simply wants to observe your methods of thinking – how do you verify your facts, how do you reach conclusions, what arguments are effective against you. It might seem invasive, but it’s important to the INTp, since they need well-defined methods of approaching people. Unless you participate in these debates, they will have no idea how to convince you of something or even how to ask a favor from you – and that will cause them to keep distance from you.

Well - this is it for the second installation. I hope I can stay focused enough to describe the third phase, though there might not be much to say. As far as I can say, after these two phases have passed, the INTp will start to act almost like a normal person... :wink:

i don't know about a lot of this. i think you're overcomplicating the situation somewhat.

[vigilante]

The promised second installation... Sorry it took so long, but other events have kept my attention for a while.

Phase Two: Getting to know an INTp

This phase could very well be the most interesting part in your relationship with an INTp. Why? Well, first of all – it’s the phase where the INTp is getting to know YOU. Expect many questions from the INTp. Also, in some cases, if you happen to be labeled as a ‚Really interesting person’ you should expect a full-blown interrogation. The reason behind such behaviour is simple – the INTp really wants to find out why he or she is interested in you. While the reason is simple, the INTp will definitely NOT settle for simple answers. Let me illustrate the logic behind this behaviour with a sample thought process of an INTp:

1. I find this person interesting. Before event X, I didn’t. That can mean the following:
_____a. I changed somehow
_____b. The person in question changed somehow
_____c. I found out something about the person that changed my perception
2. If I changed, I need to find out what triggered the change, what the change is and whether it is a good thing.
3. If the person in question changed, I need to find out what triggered the change, what the change is, why do I like it and how can I trigger such changes in other people.
4. If my perception about the person changed based on some information I didn’t previously have, there might be more information available which might lead to even more interesting things. I must find out everything about the person and see what happens.

The thought process might or might not be conscious – the results are usually the same. Let’s have a quick look at how the resulting behaviour affects communication:

The good:
- You can ask almost any question from the INTp and get an answer – the INTp sees it as an even trade for information about you.
- You will usually have the undivided attention of the INTp whenever you want.
- You can discuss absolutely any topic with the INTp, since your opinions on all sorts of matters might be important clues to ‚figuring you out’.

The bad:
- The INTp WILL ask many questions from you and some of those might seem deeply personal to you (the INTp will of course remain absolutely oblivious to the fact that you might resent some questions. Should you point it out, the INTp will be confused).
- During this phase, the INTp will seek opportunities to give you undivided attention. Due to weak Fe of the INTp, it might or might not happen at unopportune moments.
- The INTp will try to discuss absolutely any topics with you, many of which you might find boring or worse.

This phase also houses many debates and discussions. Some people might see them as arguments, but not an INTp. Important thing to remember here is that positions an INTp takes in a debate do NOT necessarily represent his or her actual convictions. As an intellectual excercise it’s not unusual at all for an INTp to vigorously defend an opinion and in the next debate to oppose it with zeal.

Why, you might ask. Usually the INTp simply wants to observe your methods of thinking – how do you verify your facts, how do you reach conclusions, what arguments are effective against you. It might seem invasive, but it’s important to the INTp, since they need well-defined methods of approaching people. Unless you participate in these debates, they will have no idea how to convince you of something or even how to ask a favor from you – and that will cause them to keep distance from you.

Well - this is it for the second installation. I hope I can stay focused enough to describe the third phase, though there might not be much to say. As far as I can say, after these two phases have passed, the INTp will start to act almost like a normal person... :wink:

Dead on!

[mike_INTJ]

i don't know about a lot of this. i think you're overcomplicating the situation somewhat

unfortunally, this is how i think. and it's acutally a much more simpler version of what i think about. because i not only look at actions, but what they wear, perfume, how they looked at me (depending on what i say), what they say to me and how it changes throught a period of time. how consistent they are in what they do (flirting or otherwise). voice inflection and how they say something, if they touch me anywhere, their walking patterns with speed, direction, poise, movement, etc.

at the end, i will try to imagine myself with this person into the 4th year of marriage or so. in the end it's all about trust. it's hard to trust someone you don't know. since the base model is usually pretty high that you can't trust someone for different reasons. this person has to be 100% or close to it, in order to feel comfortable with them. which is why the base requirements are so strict.