ENFp-IEE Subtypes

[Bertrand]

yes they never stop being IEE or delta, and I like your point about how the creative is always subordinate to being viewed in terms of the base, regardless of time spent engaging in "pure" Fi activity, it is always Fi vis a vis Ne, and never transforms into Fi dominance. I think the idea is all else being equal an IEE who spends more time in Fi is going to be more interested in ethical sensing (albeit through the lens of Ne dominance) issues compared to an IEE who has no subtype or the inert subtype. Its not that IEE becomes a social its that they have a relatively heightened interest in ethical sensing material compared to an IEE of a different type. This makes their association with gamma not necessarily any smoother than it would otherwise be but it means they would likely be drawn to common areas in life; it very well could be that common emphasis brings them together only to compete in the final analysis, but it has that effect all clubs have which is essentially, they are initially attracted to one another because of general similarities and interest, and then it so happens the bitterest divides emerge precisely because of their disputes over mostly common ground

[Rebelondeck]

.......... Fi is going to be more interested in ethical sensing ......... drawn to common areas in life; it very well could be that common emphasis brings them together ...............

F-types employ associative rationalization processes so I don't understand what "ethical sensing" would mean; IEEs don't acquire information from a S-perspective so, by default, doesn't process such information. If the commonality is rationalization, they would be drawn together more by mutual understanding rather than common areas although one may go to visit the forest while the other seeks the trees and so will end up at the same location. I would agree that understanding certainly doesn't imply agreement over what may seem to be common ground.....

a.k.a. I/O

[Bertrand]

F-types employ associative rationalization processes so I don't understand what "ethical sensing" would mean; IEEs don't acquire information from a S-perspective so, by default, doesn't process such information. If the commonality is rationalization, they would be drawn together more by mutual understanding rather than common areas although one may go to visit the forest while the other seeks the trees and so will end up at the same location. I would agree that understanding certainly doesn't imply agreement over what may seem to be common ground.....

a.k.a. I/O

ethical sensing means the social domain (as part of the social/humanitarian/pragmatic/research split), an IEE with strengthened Fi is theoretically supposed to be attracted to social issues to the degree the feeling/sensing channels are strengthened because those channels are the social domain. note this is M&O's theory I'm not sure how well it holds up in practice since this is difficult to really come across in the wild (at least for me). I think what would end up happening, in some theoretical interaction, is they would have similar interests but be more likely to view those interests in a different light, i.e.: Ne over Se etc. this sort of gives them common ground with alpha, but not really its sort of a wash, since its still Ne>Si or Ne>Se. I think in the final analysis any gravitation toward another quadra is slight since there's a system of equilibrated offsets that ultimately preserves the distinction between quadra. I think the idea is ultimately all else being equal strengthened feeling sensing in serious delta types is going to make them more like gamma socials (from a broad perspective, their interaction at the level of club interests) and less of whatever they were.. I do think you make a good point which is that I feel like this whole bit is reaching, since you never stop viewing things in the light inherent to TIM, and that further social club exists on either end, so if its the "sociability" is enhanced why not alpha over gamma, which I think just goes to serious/merry, but is sort of tenuous

[HERO]

I've sent all kinds of descriptions (including from the OP's post) to my aunt, and she's probably Ne-ENFp.

[meatburger]

I do find the concept of subtypes very fascinating. I've noticed that at times i can feel more on the Ne scale where my cognition speeds up considerably, whether it be because i've not slept properly or i am really excited or confident about something. During these states there is no question that i am more creative. When i was a kid i was way more excitable and frenetic (as i guess all kids are). I was thinking i wonder how much subtypes are related to cognitive speed. It appears to me though that i never really deviate away from the ethical sub-type despite my thinking temporarily becoming more rapid. When driving today i was often drifting off making intuitive connections (although they were mostly related to people and insights about people) and i could feel myself almost switching back and forth between this and the real world. While i doubt its possible to change subtypes i do wonder if i could learn to use Ne in a more expansive way by focusing on Ne connections to objects other than people? As an accepting function this seems implausible though, because i actually don't know how to make it happen?

I was looking at the facebook of who i suspect could be an Ne-Enfp today and he posted this

The Dyson airblade hand dryers. What is the best method for their use?
Two hands, up and down together fairly fast?
Two hands, one goes up one goes down?
One long slow pass?
Hands fingers down or sideways?
Rubbing the hands or ensuring they don't touch?

Is that the sort of things Ne subtype people think about all the time? I never really have any thoughts like this.

[NAWTEASE]

hey meatburger

what’s ur enneagram ?

[meatburger]

If you read Gulenko's profiles on wikisocion, he says x subtype is like this y subtype is like that for almost every type.

Cheers Crack, i have had a look at them but i feel like i typically need as many examples as possible to help guide my intuition. Reading the subtype descriptions isn't quite enough.

hey meatburger

what’s ur enneagram ?

Hey there! I actually never really looked into enneagram surprisingly. I remember briefly trying to figure it out. If its worth it maybe i'll have a look?

[meatburger]

So i just did a quick test and it came up as Peacemaker, Enthusiast and Individualist. A fair amount was accurate in all of them but bits didn't count so its very hard. Peacemaker (9) appeared the most accurate then Individualist (4) with a smattering of (7) Enthusiast. No idea how this relates to anything intuitively, id be interested to hear what you had to say

[Disturbed]

Abstract:
Compared to the Ne subtype, The Fi subtype is more natural, less assuming, more gentle, more emotionally self-controlled, and more concise when saying things (but they're still Ne-Fi ego, so they're not as clear in thought as some other types), follows systems (language, machines, procedures) better, is more sequential in their thoughts, yet also more creative and original and quite a bit easier on people, they have a lighter vibe, and despite being quieter and more withdrawn, they tend to communicate more easily and gently. They're more positive and individualistic than the Ne subtype (seeing the individual better and individual differences and needs, rather than the more Aristrocratic Ne subtype saying, incorrectly, "we all do this", "8 hours of a sleep is a healthy norm. So that's what you need.", "we all experience emotions all the time and our logic is confused"). The Ne subtype is, however, a bit more willing to provide services for free, since they don't care about luxuries and having variety of things as much as the Fi subtype does. [But ILE-Ti are still more upbeat (whether sincere or not) in their speech than IEE-Fi, even when talking about interests. And ILE-Ti still look more youthful in middle and old age than either IEE subtype does. Since ILE-Ti value Ti and Fe and since they're subtyped towards Beta, they generally tend to have a more positive outlook on life and live it to the fullest than IEE do, a huge exception is when they've been conditioned by a tragedy, like their hometown being raized and the integrity of their entire home being destroyed. But even then, they can still be pretty positive. ILE-Ti also usually refrain from making positive or negative evaluations of people, when they psychoanalyze, they are doing it for a purpose they've set for themselves. They do, however, comment on skills, but ILE-Ti usually keep their negative comments to themselves or express their fairly rare negativity humorlessly. There are people ILE-Ti try to avoid, but they talk about it very little probably because they don't know what they're going to do, because they're keeping their eyes open for more possibilities and waiting until they can make perfect sense, trying to do what makes the most sense.]

Both subtypes need to perform in front of people.
In contrast to the Fi subtype, the Ne subtype is:
more outgoing,
more talkative,
more annoyed by clutter, yet they try to avoid it, they usually fail at avoiding it,
less able to organize
more choleric,
less athletic/poorly coordinated,
less visually aware
more moralistic and judgmental
more scatterbrained
more physically tense and less comfortable
is less detail-oriented (misses them more, cares about them less)...
emotionally pressures people more.
resembles ILE-Ne more.

In contrast to the Ne subtype, the Fi subtype is:
more like an ILE-Ti (especially physical features, faces they make, sense of humor, better with machines, visually aware)
more original
calmer, more in control of their emotions.
less competitive, has lower need for dominance
more introverted (doesn't require as much people contact)
more economically and structurally and intellectually independent (needs less help with computer stuff, can manage and keep track of their money and material interests)
better with Ti, Te, Si, and Se
despite being more socially introverted they're more playful and if something bad happened to them they aren't as likely to be as grouchy as the Ne subtype, they continue being playful
quieter, talks less
more likely to do things with art and to come and go as they wish, less likely to be a counselor (they're improvisors which is useful for doing artwork, not advisors)
they can resemble both ESI-Se and ILE-Ti. More positive in expressions, less carping than SEE, despite having 4d Fe, they're still less upbeat and more serious, less playful than ILE-Ti can be at ILE-Ti's best.
they're less common than the other subtype
more cognitively, emotionally, and physically stable (they think more clearly, they're more psychologically comfortable in their own skin, and they have less muscle tension)

[Disturbed]

Basically, the intuitive subtype is the psychologist, fits that original social role as defined by the creator of socionics. They work at a closer psychological distance with people and they're more predictable, more indirect, they don't try as many new things once they've become good at something and they don't adapt as well; the ethical subtype is the artistic and original one and they're more detached and don't like people as much, they have more respect for personal boundaries; their bodies appear stronger and you can tell they have more energy inside but it's less geared towards trying to connect with people and more geared towards being an artist and towards making money in business. The ethical subtype is more sexual and more open minded. The intuitive subtype doesn't show their sexuality and is often bothered by displays of sexuality.

A good example of the intuitive subtype is Ellen Degeneres; a good example of the ethical subtype is Imogen Heap. Imogen Heap is a lot more original, and less risk averse and more detached from people most of the time. She's also not shocked by Beta quadra behavior like Ellen is. The intuitive subtype has much weaker will, and doesn't complain anywhere near as much although the ethical subtype is less talkative but a large amount of their words are complaints. if something is wrong, the ethical subtype will tell you about it quickly, the intuitive subtype denies their own problems. the ethical subtype has less selfish behavior but it's actually the intuitive subtype that cares more.

IEE-Ne is basically the poster man of Delta Quadra and is similar to ESI-Fi (there really is no resemblance to Alpha quadra) while IEE-Fi resembles ESI-Se and SEE-Se and ILE-Ti more; with their directness, strong will, reduced affective empathy, favoring of punishments for criminals rather than forgiveness, their increased playfulness, increased emotional expression, increased ability to work with systems, histrionic and sometimes aggressive sexuality, and love for and ability to create art, the IEE-Fi isn't very Delta in behavior and mindset.

[The Reality Denialist]

I'd really like to know the route those Guleno's descriptions ended up in the wiki because I think those are merely terminal and initial according to some sources and have nothing to do with base/creative.