ISTp accidentally offending an INFj

[Slacker]

So my husband and I have friends who are ESTj/INFj but much older than we are. Like 20 years older or something. So pretty old.

Anyway, a couple of weeks ago my husband was over at their house helping the ESTj with a project, and the INFj came out and started chatting with them. The ESTj made a comment about a celebrity and said he didn't think she was very pretty because her hair was too short and it made her look like a lesbian. My husband said as an attempted joke, "What, like your wife?" (The INFj has very short hair.) My husband said he thought it was funny but it didn't go over well.

The INFj got upset with my husband in her quiet INFj way, and is STILL pissed off about it. He called to talk to this guy this morning, and the wife answered and didn't say a word about that to him, but he said, "I can tell she's still mad at me."

So, INFjs, how does my husband make her feel better?

[oyburger]

Hahaha I love that your husband says whatever comes to his mind, but it was still pretty rude. Just about anyone would get pissed off if you made a ribbing comment about someone else's spouse.

[Slacker]

Yeah it was stupid and he knows now that it wasn't a good choice for a joke. He's going over there to pick up something and he said maybe he'll bring our daughter over. She adores our daughter and maybe that'll smooth things over? I think he wants me to go and smooth things over. I suppose I'll go if he wants but I'm not bringing up the issue.

[Slacker]

Also, I think it was partially a joke, but partially his way of telling his ESTj friend to cut it with making fun of lesbians. We have gay and lesbian friends and family, and we don't really like to hear people make fun of them. So maybe that's what caused the rift. I don't know. Anyway, he said he's going over there on his own after all so we'll have to see what happens.

[oyburger]

I was sitting here trying to think of how my mother would handle such a slight.
Let's see...she'd keep a grudge. She'd be nice in person but she's still probably upset. I think once the nice interactions between your family, especially your husband, overshadow the incident, she'll let it go. At least that's how my mom works.

I guess gay comments don't bother my generation as much so long as they aren't done in malice. Daniel's mother is gay and he make gay comments all the time (though there's no love loss between the two of them). Ususally you just have to take such comments in stride from the older set.

[Slacker]

Yeah and if it bothered him enough to comment, he *could* have said, "There are lots of beautiful lesbians - look at Portia De Rossi" or something like that. But he's sometimes clumsy with how he expresses himself.

[stefana]

"he didn't think she was very pretty because her hair was too short and it made her look like a lesbian". She's probably mad because it appeared like he likened her to that description. Ouch. If I were him, I'll just pull her aside and explain myself to her.

[Slacker]

Oh yeah I'm sure that's how she took it. He meant, "You think lesbians are ugly? Well your wife has short hair and I'm sure you don't think she's ugly." But there's no way a woman hearing that would hear it that way.

[Typeless Wonder]

I agree with Stefana, you're husband should just make an attempt to tell your neighbor that he knows he made some hurtful comments and that he apologizes for being such a clutz. Your husband should also use his Te to make her laugh, which might actually be more effective at healing the relationship since I know ISTp isn't exactly renowned for their touch-feely side. Slackermom, I'm just curious what you find most appealing about ISTps. What about your husband do you adore, and what about him do you hate? If God came came to you one night and told you that you could change one thing about your husband (behavior wise), what change would be made to your husband?

[Slacker]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I adore that he's usually very calm and fairly stable. And he's patient and kind-hearted.

I wouldn't complain if he were a touch more communicative, but that isn't a big deal.

[meatburger]

lol

Hmm. I wouldn't be bringing it up anyway. Its not even an issue i would feel pleasant about Tackling.

Maybe your husband could tell something to the ESTj husband and he can pass it on. I know an ESTj and INFj pair. The ESTj is really logical about things like that and if i explained myself im sure he would smooth things over.

[science as magic]

that's fucking hilarious

[XoX]

You know why the INFj is really pissed off...because it made her realize that her ESTj husband doesn't like her hair style and probably never has. Hah. The INFj is probably as pissed off to her own husband.

[meatburger]

hee hee

Well i generally dont like short hair either. Maybe the ISTp has done them a favour.. She will probally grow her hair longer and he wont be able to do the project any more because they will be too busy in the bedroom doing Sexxy time

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Slacker]

I asked my husband and he thought that might be part of it. LOL

[April]

Even if it does have something to do with her own husband's opinion of short hair, she's still upset about what your husband said. So I think that your husband should say something. If I feel like somebody has disrespected me, I don't forget it. But if somebody apologizes, I'm likely to forgive quickly. That's why I don't think the "let it blow over" idea is a good one. I mean, it's been several weeks, and she's still mad? She probably will get over it with time, but that won't be fun for her and her friendship with your husband could suffer. As long as the apology is genuine, it's likely to go over well.

[Topaz]

Even if it does have something to do with her own husband's opinion of short hair, she's still upset about what your husband said. So I think that your husband should say something. If I feel like somebody has disrespected me, I don't forget it. But if somebody apologizes, I'm likely to forgive quickly. That's why I don't think the "let it blow over" idea is a good one. I mean, it's been several weeks, and she's still mad? She probably will get over it with time, but that won't be fun for her and her friendship with your husband could suffer. As long as the apology is genuine, it's likely to go over well.

Im agree. He should say something short and sweet. Even if he has to practice it to say it right. ISTPs like to communicate things indirectly when it comes to these matters but sometimes they should bite the bullet and say 'Im sorry'. It wont be the end of the world for them and in this case the INFJ would know it how difficult it is. More than likely she would forgive him and he would gain her respect. To err is human, to forgive Divine.

[Minde]

I agree with what's been said, especially by oyburger and April. Personally, it'd also help a lot if the reason he said what he did (i.e. feeling defensive about friends) got explained, too. Motives are important.

[Slacker]

Yes and I've talked to him about this now. But he's very resistant to bringing it up. He said if she says something he will explain, but she's unlikely to bring it up too.

*sigh*

He is a bit stubborn.

[Minde]

Yep, you're probably right. I probably wouldn't say anything, either, if it was me. I guess your next best bet is that as long as you guys stay friendly, she'll probably let it go. A peace offering of some sort might speed up the process... Not necessarily an actual gift, but maybe something more along the lines of doing something... *shrug* I dunno. I don't hold grudges with people I like, so as long as you reestablish that you all in fact do like each other, I'd think things would work out.

[XoX]

Yes and I've talked to him about this now. But he's very resistant to bringing it up. He said if she says something he will explain, but she's unlikely to bring it up too.

*sigh*

He is a bit stubborn.

I have to admit that if I was in that situation it would be extremely unlikely that I would do anything about it except wait for things to "repair themselves". Actually I have no idea how to initiate that kind of apology. I mean what is the correct path of action? Go to their door and say something like "Hi, I'm really sorry I made a comment about your husband making a comment about you looking like a lesbian" ?

[meatburger]

I think you need to use a bit of Fi to accomplish that

I could do it, obviously go over and hang out, be as kind as possible. Then i would just come out and say it. I often find i know exactly the perfect way of doing / saying something like that if i needed, but i definitely wouldn't bother.

[Slacker]

I gave him a suggested script. "I know I made you feel bad the other day and I'm sorry about that. What I meant was that there are beautiful lesbians, and beautiful women with short hair, and he obviously doesn't think all women with short hair are ugly because you have short hair."

Somehow though I can't imagine those words coming out of his mouth.

[Mea]

The idea of bringing up the whole topic would make me uncomfortable.

But I think it has to be brought up. But explaining to that extent, IMO, would not be necessary. I'm not an INFj, but if I were her, I would rather him bring it up, apologize, say it's a misunderstanding and he didn't mean it that way, and that's it. I wouldn't expect a detailed explanation.

Because an explanation might sometime give an opposite effect to what was intended. lol. I dunno.

[Topaz]

I think I would say something like "Theres something that has been bothering me. I said something the other day and I dont think it came out the way I meant it. Im afraid I might have hurt your feelings. Im sorry if I did. I didnt mean to."

[cracka]

I think I would say something like "Theres something that has been bothering me. I said something the other day and I dont think it came out the way I meant it. Im afraid I might have hurt your feelings. Im sorry if I did. I didnt mean to."

that's a good one.

*files under the apology drawer in my unconscious memory file cabinet located in the Amygdala*

[Blaze]

So my husband and I have friends who are ESTj/INFj but much older than we are. Like 20 years older or something. So pretty old.

Anyway, a couple of weeks ago my husband was over at their house helping the ESTj with a project, and the INFj came out and started chatting with them. The ESTj made a comment about a celebrity and said he didn't think she was very pretty because her hair was too short and it made her look like a lesbian. My husband said as an attempted joke, "What, like your wife?" (The INFj has very short hair.) My husband said he thought it was funny but it didn't go over well.

The INFj got upset with my husband in her quiet INFj way, and is STILL pissed off about it. He called to talk to this guy this morning, and the wife answered and didn't say a word about that to him, but he said, "I can tell she's still mad at me."

So, INFjs, how does my husband make her feel better?

uh, maybe say "not that there's anything wrong with that"? lol my estp ex would say the infj was "sensodyne" or too sensitive or something.

either that or just apologize right? say he's got a black sense of humor, didn't mean to offend anybody. trouble is sometimes stuff like this gets worse the more you focus on it.

could let time go by and then say something. in a lighthearted friendly joking kinda way. dunno.

[meatburger]

I think I would say something like "Theres something that has been bothering me. I said something the other day and I dont think it came out the way I meant it. Im afraid I might have hurt your feelings. Im sorry if I did. I didnt mean to."

Yeah thats practically exactly how i would say it Topaz. Wouldn't even use the word LESBIAN

lol.

[eunice]

I think I would say something like "Theres something that has been bothering me. I said something the other day and I dont think it came out the way I meant it. Im afraid I might have hurt your feelings. Im sorry if I did. I didnt mean to."

Yeah thats practically exactly how i would say it Topaz. Wouldn't even use the word LESBIAN

lol.

I think Topaz gave a very good suggestion. I think if your husband is genuinely apologetic, I don't think the INFj will take it to heart. :wink: The more he explains, the more complicated it will get.

[meatburger]

I would say the chances that an ISTp would do this are about 0. This is what ENFp's are for lol.

[Topaz]

I would say the chances that an ISTp would do this are about 0. This is what ENFp's are for lol.

HA! I know what you mean. But I had an experience today that helped me to see that an ISTP can do this kind of thing if he thinks its important and he has a good relationship with the person. He felt he needed to tell me something and he did (with a little coaching). I was proud of him because I know it was not easy. After that he felt much better and began to tell me other things that he normally doesn't speak about but are not as grave.

[Going B. Zerk]

*sigh* something similar has happened to me, more than once.
It would be best to apologize somehow. I like Topaz’s apology.

I would say the chances that an ISTp would do this are about 0.

Yea, I usually just let it go hoping it fixes itself.

This is what ENFp's are for lol.

yea!