Socionics Dual Interaction

[Transigent]

Edited for gayness.

[Cone]

Must you be such an type, Transigent? :wink:

[stefana]

You should pin this up in every quadra.

[Cone]

Must you be such an type, Transigent? :wink:

What is that supposed to mean? I don't get it?

One of the defining characteristics of Ni is a warning of problems in the future.

[IcEPiCk]

Makes sense to me... Except I would add one dual is usually attracted to the other, physically or otherwise. The other sort of grows on them. I experienced this after I stopped associating with my dual for a bit, I realized OMG she is hot, OMG I do need her etc.

Funny enough its been too late by then.

Im an optomist about the future though!

[Eidos]

That is really accurate. That is just how it happened for me and my ISFJ gf. There was never this "spark" at the beginning. It all came later. And it's absolutely true that she let me be the way I was...

I think certain types who look too much for the "spark" and haven't got the patience to wait through a relationship are the ones who are going to have the most trouble recognizing the worth of their dual.

[IcEPiCk]

Eido's you may be conflicting with me, but I completely agree with you.

Thats why its frustrating when your dual is more idealistic, and you are the ultimate realist. They tend to be taken by 'jerks' or people they think it can work out with because it may have had an initial spark. The whole initial spark deal is BS. It happens after you dont see them for a month or something and you realize you cant get them out of your head.

Its crazy that way, but true.

[Eidos]

Eido's you may be conflicting with me, but I completely agree with you.

Thats why its frustrating when your dual is more idealistic, and you are the ultimate realist. They tend to be taken by 'jerks' or people they think it can work out with because it may have had an initial spark. The whole initial spark deal is BS. It happens after you dont see them for a month or something and you realize you cant get them out of your head.

Its crazy that way, but true.

Yeah, definitely. I think the whole "spark" thing is overrated. That's just that with the people with whom there is something special... you only realize it once you're not with them.

This is one of the reasons why I think it's better to take the time to get to know someone... build up a bit of tension, etc. and make things happen spontaneously. You get a feel for things that way.

IMO "dates" make things too official and bring people to make a decision too quickly ("shall we see each other again or not" kind of thing).

[Hugo]

I think there is a special attraction in a dual relation.

Lets see the INTj-ESFj relationship.

The ESFj is enthusiastic, which kind of wakes up the INTj.

The INTj has a self-controlled appearance (implying a clear logical thinker), which is attractive to the ESFj, who needs clear logical thinking.

INTjs are too restrained in their emotions, and ESFjs are too unrestrained in there emotions creating an immediate attraction.

[XcaliburGirl]

I'm calling this "My Dual Experience So Far".

I've been very interested in this dual thing lately. Trying to keep objective about things, and now that I know an ESFj guy, it's actually pretty easy not to idealize it, but still appreciate it.

With all of the duals, the extrovert sort of wakes up the introvert, which they both like; introverts because they need to be woken up and extroverts because they like being able to work up someone who is otherwise so quiet.

That's how it is with my ESFj aquaintance. I get really comfortable really fast around him and all my idiosyncratic mannerisms come out that most people don't get to see. I don't notice I'm doing it until other folks start looking at me weird and he starts grinning or giggling (well, in a masculine way) at me; I guess he thinks it's funny or cute or something.

I really like this "no initial spark" thing. Usually, I get stupid obsessive crushes, requited or not, and end up getting hurt. This guy, I really enjoy his company, I'd go out with him if he asked, but I'm not really head-over-heels for him (which is unusual for me).

I think I've felt that "need" that the descriptions talk about, too. We were on a particularly stressful call; 15yo drowned at the lake. There wasn't enough room in the patient's ambulance for me(I was very green and terrified and just getting in the way), the ESFj volunteered to drive the paramedics' rig, and I was left at the scene with a few other folks. I was pretty shaken up, and I felt like he abandoned me. It was weird, why him specifically? (or so I thought, before I realized he was ESFj). It wasn't really rational, and I barely knew him, but I knew that he had a nice, calming affect on me, so he was the one I felt I needed to talk to.

So anyway, for now I'm content to see him once in a while. Especially if I'm in a bad mood and I need a little Fe.

[Catholic Schoolboy]

i will add to this by saying i didn't hook up with ISTPboyfriend until i had known him for 2 years.

How the hell did you mange that? He must have been dreadfully unattractive. Jesus Christ, the term "hook up" is loathsome. I would say that it is worse than "making love" but it's not.

[Rocky]

i will add to this by saying i didn't hook up with ISTPboyfriend until i had known him for 2 years.

Since when did you get this insanly ridiculous idea that you're ENFP?

[Rocky]

i will add to this by saying i didn't hook up with ISTPboyfriend until i had known him for 2 years.

Since when did you get this insanly ridiculous idea that you're ENFP?

you'll have to flex your highly developed Ne, your Ti, and your Si and tell me why it's a crazy idea. (;

Sorry, suga', but I even read through your old posts just to make sure... and you're not ENFP. Even the way you seem to write and communicate is thinking... and that's probably the best way to tell that you are INTJ and not INFJ. As for why INxJ, everything you wrote about yourself seemed to model an INxJ. The way you seem to "focus" your attention, the way you talk about how you dress and take care of yourself, the way you shy away from unwanted people, the way you analyze things, how you try to draw attention AWAY from yourself, etc. Even from a VI perspective, you seemed INTJ to most everyone here. Also, you didn't sound like the ISTP's "dual" in being able to intuitivly understand his feelings, go with the flow and blah, blah, blah.... get the point?

When did you start thinking ENFP? Why?

[IcEPiCk]

it always is better when it starts out as friends...

[Creepy-guest]

What is it that a dual cannot offer? ie.. "something more"

this isnt a rhetorical question.

[Cone]

If I hear one more word about duals, I'm going to kill someone!

[XcaliburGirl]

If I hear one more word about Rocky, I'm going to kill someone!

:wink:


What's up Cone? It's kind of part and parcel with Socionics so you can expect to hear some discussion of it. I'm willing to hear about the wonders of relationships of Supervision (Unless that's over, in which case, I'm sorry I brought it up).

[IcEPiCk]

riiiight

What many people realize here is how anti social an ISTP can appear to the opposite sex... How 'hard to get' we actually are. Just because it took them a full 2 years to click just shows more persistance on her part which is great. ISTPs will never jump into a relationship, and in fact may resist until they themselves are jumped on.

[Creepy-]

this is true. enfps sometimes force themselves onto you. then its just a matter of deciding whether or not to dig your heels in. i like doing what my type doesn't normally do because its so insanely difficult, who knows though, maybe i''m full of it.

in fact sometimes i'm sure i'm full of it.

sometimes i have way too much fun being full of it, and waiting for someone to call me on it. which is why i think i could actually be an ENFP, its like i'm right on the the border between the two types.

[Creepy-]

this is true. enfps sometimes force themselves onto you. i like doing what my type doesn't normally do because its so insanely difficult, who knows though, maybe i''m full of it.

in fact sometimes i'm sure i'm full of it.

sometimes i have way too much fun being full of it, and waiting for someone to call me on it. which is why i think i could actually be an ENFP, its like i'm right on the the border between the two types.

[Creepy-]

riiiight

What many people realize here is how anti social an ISTP can appear to the opposite sex... How 'hard to get' we actually are. Just because it took them a full 2 years to click just shows more persistance on her part which is great. ISTPs will never jump into a relationship, and in fact may resist until they themselves are jumped on.

Hmmm....

Of course, the folks who wrote the profiles of ENFp and ISTp (saying that the ENFp will always bail at the last minute, and ISTp/ESTj types will take that extra initiative), and wrote the "erotic attitudes" stuff, must have gotten ENFp and ISTp mixed around then....

Back to reality,

ENFp's are the type apt to flirt and be super friendly, etc., but taking initiative in these matters isn't thier thing.

Sorry if I seem annoyed, but I am getting irritated by those who "type" themselves, and then attach "they" or "we" to thier so-called "type" and apply it to everything that they personally do themselves.

Remember, socionics doesn't destroy personality by segmenting it into a little framework in which every action is socionic based.

Look at it this way: say you have the sport of basketball, socionics will tell you the size of a player, but not the skills or drive.

So if you have the "type" 7-2 340lbs, you could be Shaq, but you could also be inflicted with a glandular problem, and an eating disorder. (Make your own inferences with where I am going with this...)

[Rocky]

At least we can talk about something else besids me for a little while. Implied, the only two two I can see you as are INTJ or maybe INFJ if you were under a helluva lot of stress.

my "knack" is languages and linguistics. i do think i have the socionics intp tendency to amass a great deal of information on any subject that interests me (so long as it interests me. if it interests me, my memory kicks into high gear for some reason unbeknownst to me.)

I have to admit languages and such sound NF.

i would love to be in a scientific field (physics, biology, whatever) but my simple arithmetic is horrible and i get the numbers switched around.

Poor Se.

i can definitely "forget to eat" if i am caught up thought, as the socionics description of INTj claims.

Poor Se.

i've been called tactless and insensitive more than once in my life. perhaps the stress i've been under lately has led to a lack of gestalt reasoning and thus influenced my test scores?

An ENFP tactless and insensitve?

aha! i can relate with this very much. "exactly what do you mean by x?" always asking for clarification of meaning, regardless of the topic.

Thinker.

i don't like to stick out so i don't wear many trendy things, but i do have a certain taste. i've been told i have a somewhat utilitarian way of dressing, but i can appreciate good quality items (especially comfortable ones. i can't really do high heels or anything like that because it's uncomfortable, and i have to be comfortable to work or play well. not typically comfortable mentally or physically when i have to dress up.)

INxJ.

going without makeup or nice clothing doesn't bother me, but sometimes i feel like makeup and dressing appropriately feminine is a social "duty" in a strange way. i may do it sometimes so i don't stick out as much and appear more "normal."

IxTx.

i never initiate contact with people! i'll wait for them to do so. it seems like most people i know are acquaintances, and have been for as long as ten years. i also don't like to condemn people regarding their faults. i figure everyone has faults, just in different areas. and i figure some people are better at dealing with certain faults than other people.

Introvert?

i also want to know what makes people tick so i can work better with them. hence the fascination with typology. i like isolation, but sometimes i think i may not like it as much as my conscious mind tells me. (;

Sounds like I and most likely T.

i have a very small group of friends that have been around since highschool. very few can get along with me, but the ones who do are the ones i stick with permanently due to (normally) our like-mindedness. i've been told by several people that i'm very hard to get to know. i basically never initiate contact.

First of all, an ENFP wouldn't "choose" their friends because of a like-mindness. And second of all, you are the most reclusive ENFP I have ever heard of.

check. definite check. i have logic "jumps" quite often and in grade school i tended to lose points for not showing my work, even though i may have come up with the correct answer.

Poor Se.

i normally work best when i work from parts to whole, not whole to parts. i'm capable of working from whole to parts, but it requires some effort. is this what you mean?

INTJ?

this rings very true to me. sometimes external stimuli can really fuck with me. the rest of the paragraph, somewhat. good-natured teasing is often lost on me, so i don't do it. i don't like getting close to just anyone. mostly people who show whatever i deem to be a sincere and non-malevolent interest. i know well how to pick my friends, but i don't know anything about picking a good mate.

INxJ.

i'm different here from you. i like being friends with guys more than girls, typically, because they strike me as more easy going. the last guy i seriously dated (and they are few and far between, trust me) only dated me because he was extremely persistent with me and pursued me, somewhat sporadically and somewhat intensely, yet over a long period of time (the constancy was what i appreciated.)

Oh, God... stop right there! NO WAY is that ENFP. Read it over again.

i fluctuate between being unaware of my surroundings and hyperaware. the same goes for my attention span. hyperfocused or not focused at all. i don't know if this correlates with any specific type.

Yes it does; INTJs and INFJs.

me = what do you /want/? [Ti]/getting no [Fe]

him = basically a paraphrase of what Rocky said

Quote:
Have you ever stopped to think that most of the time people "like" someone but for no specific concious reasons? They don't really know why, but they go with it anyway because they at least feel it's right.


me = confused because for whatever reason that sounds like manipulation/advertisement/etc..

him = not sure how to deal, [poor Ne]

me = start wondering if he doesn't "get it"

him = why don't you just get out there and experience the world/booze up/have a j/etc.

him = writes somewhat businessy sounding letter heavy on the [Te] about our relationship. is confused as to why "the rules" and "the agreement" aren't working.

INTJ.

it's not bad to be able to sort something out into a system, though. you do realize the use of that, right? (i assume you do or you wouldn't be /here/!)

ENFPs sort out into a system? Hmm?

That's enough for now.

[Rocky]

stress, rocky. i promise. lost 10 lbs total over stress in 10 days. i think i hadn't slept more than 4 hours in 3 days when i posted a lot of that stuff. hello this is shit i hate talking about and you're going all ISTPboyfriend on me doing the Te lawyer thing which is just duumb.

Heehehe... I'm making you crazy, aren't I? Don't you think an ENFP would enjoy the Te more? And BTW, stress= IxxJ, not ExxP.

how are you so sure i have such a bad Se? shit i have just always been kinda clumsy or at least i think i am.

Look at where I pointed it out. Swithing numbers around, making "jumps" without showing work, forgetting to eat, the way you dress, how you take attention away from your appreance, your intensity when you focus, even the way you look away from the camera.

and guys vs girls as friends: it's hard to explain this, bc like i said i like my 1-2 close female friends a lot, but the day to day female drama bugs me and i already have enough of it in my life.

That's not really what I meant. I'll re-emphasize it here:

the last guy i seriously dated... only dated me because he was extemely persistant with me and pursued me, somewhat sporadically and somewhat intensely, yet over a long period of time(the constancy was what i appreciated.)

[Kim]

I agree with Rocky that you don't sound like an ENFP:

highly social, maybe not highly highly social, but i like people okay. i need a lot of privacy and i hate people being in my business. reading the dual description sounds so much like our relationship because the whole thing is based on privacy et cetera.

ENFps aren't necessarily highly highly social, but they love people. Love them! And they approach them, too. Not all the time, but in their social moments. And because of that, an ENFp is not tactless and insensitive, not even when stressed and not even when they dislike them.

[IcEPiCk]

Its just awkward for ENFP ISTP situations... If the ENFP is super friendly the ISTP will almost expect them to make the first move. This can become very frustrating to a male ISTP such as myself.

Perhaps it just takes us ISTPs longer to socially mature in that regard... Im thinking more in the ISTP male category but whatever.

Sorry if I seem annoyed, but I am getting irritated by those who "type" themselves, and then attach "they" or "we" to thier so-called "type" and apply it to everything that they personally do themselves.

It cannot predict actions, it can predict certain BEHAVIOUR....

and being an ISTP, we are very fraternal so its only natural that I WOULD say WE.

With that said, ISTPs may desire a relationship but make excuses for themselves to avoid it. ISTPs approach intimacy from a purely physical level. If you get your head around that you will understand some of the difficulties we encounter... Like most, our biggest stength is our biggest weakness. We are so attached to the physical we neglect the emotional at times, and as an INFJ shoves conflict under the carpet, an ISTP tries to shove feelings.



I hope that was clear enough....

[Rocky]

"My view on courtship is "the longer it is, the better it is".

That is a common view for women on other things also...

Damn you Transigent, you beat me to it.

i think he was initially attracted to me because i love ranting about society and can get pretty feministy sometimes. i hate seeing women being mistreated or abused. ISTPs, when they are not in an ill mood, can be really great for the whole wine and roses thing.

and because as much as i hate it, i am pretty prissy. i have to have my privacy and i get stressed if i take on too much work. but if i want something i can go at it full force and i can love it. it's just only if i want it, if i respect whoever it is i am getting it from (i have to find some admirable quality in my professors and i can crush on them like crazy, even. but i wouldn't make the first move.)

here's the other thing. this is just how it goes with ENFPs, that they know that men basically want a conquest. and since mood dictates so much and (possibly) an ISTP senses this, they go and do something nice.


jesus what else can i say? i wouldn't be in the field i am in if i weren't pretty good at being covertly manipulative, dragging people out of their shells, even if i lose my track a lot.

I'm wondering how long you're gonna keep up this silly ENFP sharad. Please, give me ONE thing about you that even suggests that you are an ENFP (besides an ISTP boyfriend) and I will apologize for being so blunt here.

I agree with Rocky that you don't sound like an ENFP:

highly social, maybe not highly highly social, but i like people okay. i need a lot of privacy and i hate people being in my business. reading the dual description sounds so much like our relationship because the whole thing is based on privacy et cetera.

ENFps aren't necessarily highly highly social, but they love people. Love them! And they approach them, too. Not all the time, but in their social moments. And because of that, an ENFp is not tactless and insensitive, not even when stressed and not even when they dislike them.

I'll be blunt. I think you're an INTj who's rationalized that you're an ENFp as this has the best inter-type relation prospects with an ISTp.

Thanks guys. :wink: This is exactly what I was talking about. You twisted the belif inside your head to convince yourself you are ENFP.

also come on now what's that:

That is an INxJ not looking into the camera and trying to hide her face while laughing.

[Rocky]

implied, this is the ONLY thing I believe in. Everything else is an attempt at an objective analysis regardless of the beliefs in my head or preconcived notions.

also you sound just like my dude right now, FYI. one thing ISTP's can work on to improve social relations is this really transparent projection blamegame bullshit. "you twisted the belief." "this is you, not me." etc.

Read the above article. THIS HAPPENS.... A LOT.

oh jesus i'm not sure you even know what would convince you.

if i am truly ENFP, then i could talk myself into the brain of any type i'd like and assimilate very easily for maximum (social, whatever) reward. or well, at least be able to understand "where someone is coming from."

Yes, that would be a nice trick.

[Rocky]

are we hearing eachother now? should i go find a megaphone?

I can hear you. The only thing is that you still seem to be dancing around this "ENFP explaination" thing. I know I'm being a jerk right now, but I'd still like to hear just why you would think you are ENFP and what ENFP traits you think you have. I haven't read anything so far to convince me of ENFP.

i'm not surprised you believe that! i believe that, also. i believe you are doing that right now. (;

No offence, by I am your third-person perspective here. Steve also said straight out you are an INTJ.

[MysticSonic]

So far, she comes across an ENFj to me, but I haven't really been following her posts, so.

[implied]

how does that settle it?

[IcEPiCk]

damn it ENFPs stop GIVING UP!

persistence!

[Creepy-pokeball]

Definitely NF for sure. Do us a favor. Go over the function texts. Contrast Fe and Fi. Which is more you?


http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/assessment.html

This has the functions alone and a function test. It's meant for MBTI but you can ignore the result and just look at the function chart.

[Rocky]

what do you mean here? you know what social contexts are, right? this is an internet forum and there is an entirely different set of rules that go along with this place. go look up something about cyberpsychology and social masks. people tend to feel a lot more relaxed if they aren't in a situation where they have to perform (in any way.) no social expectations here, really. although maybe that's not how it should be, that's how it is.

What he means is that you are just lucky you have your looks. That second part you wrote is just a bullshit answer to convince yourself you are an ENFP even though you don't act like any ENFPs you know in public.

and most people would not do that. you know it as well as i do. people pass by anyone with an "invisible" disability pretty fuckin quickly. this is the whole pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps mentality in the united states which i hate but i have to conform with.

You're wrong here. Any one with a half-concious mind would do that.

So far, she comes across an ENFj to me, but I haven't really been following her posts, so.

Apparently not. I doubt she is even a feeling type of anything... just a stressed out INTJ.

damn it ENFPs stop GIVING UP!

persistence!

Which ENFPs are giving up? Steve gave up but he is ENTJ. implied didn't give up, but she isn't even ENFP herself. IcEPiCK, I'm sure you can tell.

Definitely NF for sure. Do us a favor. Go over the function texts. Contrast Fe and Fi. Which is more you?

Like I said, I doubt she is a feeler. Steve noticed the same thing I did. You'd have to be following all her posts to get that.

[Cone]

Remember that I had people (even Transigent) believing that I was an ISTp at one point. But I came to my senses after awhile. I know how utterly thrilling it is to want to be another type, to be somebody else, but don't let this take over you.

[Rocky]

what other type would spar with rocky for this long? (;

INTJ.

Ask MysticSonic.

You keep digging bigger and bigger holes for yourself, sorry.

Having a good heart does not make you a feeler.

Caring about people does not make you a feeler.

These seem to be the only reason you think you are ENFP, you're not.

[Creepy-pokeball]

I am listening to her. Look at this sentence:

"and most people would not do that. you know it as well as i do. people pass by anyone with an "invisible" disability pretty fuckin quickly. this is the whole pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps mentality in the united states which i hate but i have to conform with. "

Im seeing NF values here. I knew exactly what she was refering to. So maybe Fi/Ne?

[Rocky]

I am listening to her. Look at this sentence:

"and most people would not do that. you know it as well as i do. people pass by anyone with an "invisible" disability pretty fuckin quickly. this is the whole pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps mentality in the united states which i hate but i have to conform with. "

Im seeing NF values here. I knew exactly what she was refering to. So maybe Fi/Ne?

see, so am i!!! agh jadae it's a relief to see that you get this. i think analyzing my speech for values makes it dead obvious, but most people just don't look at things like that. they focus too much on the details of what i say.

In that case I'm ENTJ...

And both me and Steve have talked about the way you word things before. If you want to continue believe that you are an ENFP, go ahead. The only problem is that the ENFPs on here will continue to disagree with the "ENFP" advice you give about them.

/out.

[Rocky]

because i'm exposing the hidden agenda and making them uncomfortable. this is a place for me to vent, you realize? this isn't how i act in public. i'm benign as can be. an enfp will never say some of the things i have said here if they're trying to get into good favor with people. remember that we want a lot and can never really know how other people view us.

remember the hidden agenda.

OMG, every word of that is complete bullshit! I'm starting to actually think that you are dellusional. Please don't take this personally, but you need a hard smack of reality my friend.

[implied]

a;lsdkjfj; hahahahahahsld;kfj!!!

[HarryBottom]

i'm good at acting, strangely enough. i always have been. i do amazing impersonations and very convincing native accents (i would love a job in accent correction.)

This doesn't seem all to ENFP to me. Their some of the most modest people around, and they downplay everything their good at. Even if they truely do get to the point of believing they are good. I couldn't see an ENFP saying this. Although, there is the whole internet non-personal thing...

The whole thing you said about taking it slow within sexual relations sure as heck doesn't seem ENFP to me. They seem pretty impulsive with this kind of thing.

You sound a bit more like a J personality.


But I suppose I didn't hear enough yet to surely say weather I think you are one or not. You just don't strike me as one right away. However, It's at the point in this topic where I could easily see you being ENFP, and I could easily see you as not. I could easily see the things you said twisted for or against you.

I hate when people do this to me. So, sorry. I'm just kinda stating what I see.

I need to hear more to truely determine an opinion.