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Thread: Smilex's type

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    Mariano Rajoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    @Logos:

    So?

    Quote Originally Posted by Loki
    Lord?
    There's a history to it. In the early days of the forum two people used this way to refer to me independently of each other. (The first one was in pm if I remember correctly). I thought it was amusing so I use it sometimes when I wish to appear quirky and subversively charming.

    @Mariano: I've never ever used a cv. I've always walked to the boss of a given institution, described my personal history and wish to work in the place and usually gotten hired in short order.

    No pictures. I apologize for this.

    My few next years of the future I aim to specialize in one of the surgical specialities. Whatever time is left over I wish to use towards two goals, to get into better physical health and condition and to find a suitable woman with whom to start a family. Qualifications for the latter being: nice soft character, nice looks, likes me, healthy. After said goals are fulfilled I aim to take it as easy as it is possible without failing any possible duties my job and family life at that point entail.
    Crude, quick, and dirty:

    E>I
    S<N
    T>F
    P<J
    LII
    that is what i was getting at. if there is an inescapable appropriation that is required in the act of understanding, this brings into question the validity of socionics in describing what is real, and hence stubborn contradictions that continue to plague me.

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    Who do you see as your dual, why do you need them, and why do they need you?
    What do you think you offer in a relationship?
    And what do you most want from someone else in a relationship?
    Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
    If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.

    ~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
    ~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.

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    Default Re: Type Dr Smilex MD

    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    I'm ESTj. What type am I and why?
    If you are ESTj, we are starting a trend. My post title was "ESTj".
    Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
    If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.

    ~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
    ~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.

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    bumped to this page:

    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    Who do you see as your dual, why do you need them, and why do they need you?
    What do you think you offer in a relationship?
    And what do you most want from someone else in a relationship?
    Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
    If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.

    ~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
    ~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    Who do you see as your dual, why do you need them, and why do they need you?
    The tone of how Danielle and Minde talk on the forum really does it for me, but actually I think I'd like to really live with someone just a small tad happier, I'd like to make someone happy in whatever small way I can. On the other hand I'd probably approach someone who isn't with the purpose that I'd like to be a causative element of the happiness. In the strictest speaking manner I'd like to approach an extreme version of an ISFj and have her sort of grow into being an INFj while with me.

    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    What do you think you offer in a relationship?
    I have no idea. A warm body? Money? Sort of good looks except if someone doesn't like scars, I guess. Stability? Will to accomplish things for the benefit of the partner? Ability to give massages? Ability to solve problems efficiently? I don't know if those are good enough building blocks for a relationship. I'd actually like my partner to tell me what I have to do to maintain the relationship and then just do it. I'd like them to actually supply most of the warmth in the relationship, but not overdo it, just sort of give a warm response to my attentions.

    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    And what do you most want from someone else in a relationship?
    Warmth, hugs, good-looking healthy babies, solace.

    EDIT: And I think it would still be a trend even if neither one of us or just one of us was ESTj. Just a sort of less specific trend.
    First eliminate every possible source of error. Thence success is inevitable.

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    According to classical socionics, what you're describing is much more like Fe dual-seeking than Fi dual-seeking.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    According to classical socionics, what you're describing is much more like Fe dual-seeking than Fi dual-seeking.
    I find this to be an atypically sucky opinion from you. I described no emotional response at all. What I am describing is a condition, not an outburst. I don't need someone who tells me they love me a lot, I need someone who is willing to put up with me even though I'm not able to give much in the way of emotional comfort back. Seriously. Get a grip.
    First eliminate every possible source of error. Thence success is inevitable.

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    Smilingeyes I'm like 90% sure that you're my supervisor, like expat and joy. Weird as it sounds if you were my conflictor I wouldn't even bother with this thread. I also think you're Te subtype and hence the confusion with ESTj. So ENTj-Te subtype makes sense. I also think that it might be common for ENTj-Te subtypes to have difficulty accepting that they're one type and can't change it. I've noticed, for example, my RL ENTj-Te friend is super smart and is actually able to fake his weak functions quite well. It also took us a long time to type him and he'll still challenge it convincingly sometimes. But then looking at the people he hangs out with most - ISFj, INTp, ESTj, and the ones he openly dislikes - ISFp, ENFp, makes it all make sense again. I think that you identify yourself as an individual foremost, you don't seem to attach yourself to any kind of group. That trait also favours ENTj - Democracy > Aristocracy.

    If you have an INTp friend you probably Te-banter with him all the time as I've noticed that INTps and ENTjs play upon each other with Te the same way INFps and ENFjs play upon each other with Fe in conversation. I've also seen said INTp interact with ESTjs and it's a lot less amusing - the INTp utterly controls the interaction and the ESTj just seems powerless.

    Also ESTjs are typically very concrete action-oriented people. A psychologically healthy ESTj around the age of 40 may have developed their weak (Ni) function sufficiently to value it but still they prefer to do things. You think about abstract things, like socionics, way too much to be ESTj. While yes, it is possible for an ESTj to think about socionics, they'd need to focus much more on practical application than on theorizing. It's not a coincidence that there are few regular ESTj characters around here.
    INFp-Ni

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    I find this to be an atypically sucky opinion from you. I described no emotional response at all. What I am describing is a condition, not an outburst. I don't need someone who tells me they love me a lot, I need someone who is willing to put up with me even though I'm not able to give much in the way of emotional comfort back. Seriously. Get a grip.
    It seems that you have a more "dramatic" view of than I think it's necessarily the case. I don't think it has to be as obvious as "someone who loves me a lot" or "an outburst". I am not saying that you are Fe dual-seeking; I do say that that description, on its own, suggests more Fe than Fi to me. For what it's worth - and I say that literally, since (1) I am no friend of typing by comparison and (2) I don't like using myself as reference - I would never have described what I need in a partner in those terms.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by misutii
    I also think that it might be common for ENTj-Te subtypes to have difficulty accepting that they're one type and can't change it.
    I don't know if it's "common", but again for what it's worth, assuming I am ENTj-Te, I have no problem with the concept of not changing my type - not because I necessarily don't want to change it, but rather because I don't think it has changed. Unlike Smilingeyes, I don't think I was a different person in my 20s than I am in my 40s - not in terms of type. In terms of other things yes, of course.

    And, again, I think this discussion is a dead-end, that's why I am reluctant to enter it at all. I don't think I have observed type change in myself or others, but I can't say that others haven't.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  11. #51
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    i think your sucky opinion may be accurate, expat. i would consider that to be more than as well, but it seems like there's a lot of ambiguity going on as to what is (is it always being ever-accepting of the flaws of others and endlessly patient? i find this hard to believe and i believe that it can be quite inflexible and obstinate--not in a bad way-- past a certain point.) not that i really can say with certainty what smilingeyes' type is, but the description on its own did sound a bit more Fe than Fi.
    6w5 sx
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    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    (is it always being ever-accepting of the flaws of others and endlessly patient? i find this hard to believe and i believe that it can be quite inflexible and obstinate--not in a bad way-- past a certain point.)
    I agree with that.

    Also, and is one of the thorniest issues to discuss -- I will decline to get deeper into it.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    (is it always being ever-accepting of the flaws of others and endlessly patient? i find this hard to believe and i believe that it can be quite inflexible and obstinate--not in a bad way-- past a certain point.)
    I agree with that.

    Also, and is one of the thorniest issues to discuss -- I will decline to get deeper into it.
    yeah, i find myself pussyfooting around this topic honestly. i'm considering that i'll get some disagreements for suggesting that isn't always hugs, kittens, puppies & warmth, as seems to be the popular opinion here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    (is it always being ever-accepting of the flaws of others and endlessly patient? i find this hard to believe and i believe that it can be quite inflexible and obstinate--not in a bad way-- past a certain point.)
    I agree with that.

    Also, and is one of the thorniest issues to discuss -- I will decline to get deeper into it.
    yeah, i find myself pussyfooting around this topic honestly. i'm considering that i'll get some disagreements for suggesting that isn't always hugs, kittens, puppies & warmth, as seems to be the popular opinion here.
    huh...i would never think that Fi is puppies and warmth. when i think of Fi i think of boundaries, rules, and judgments about relationships. the ethics police.

    puppies and kittens is more like dunno but not the first thing i think of when i think of Fi.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Smilingeyes, do you know which enneagram type you are? Do you know which of the Oldham styles fits you best? (Giving your top 3 or 4 choices for the Oldham styles would be much more useful than giving one.)
    SEE

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    Here are your choices, btw:

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    [hr:f541d82323]Adventurous: Throw caution to the winds -- here comes the Adventurer. Who but Adventurers would have taken those long leaps for mankind -- crossed the oceans, broken the sound barrier, walked on the moon? The men and women with this personality style venture where most mortals fear to tread. They are not bound by the same terrors and worries that limit most of us. They live on the edge, challenging boundaries and restrictions, pitting themselves for better or for worse in a thrilling game against their own mortality. No risk, no reward, they say. Indeed, for people with the Adventurous personality style, the risk is the reward.
    • Nonconformity. Men and women who have the Adventurous personality style live by their own internal code of values. They are not strongly influenced by other people or by the norms of society.
    • Challenge. To live is to dare. Adventurers love the thrill of risk and routinely engage in high-risk activities.
    • Mutual independence. They do not worry too much about others, for they expect each human being to be responsible for him- or herself.
    • Persuasiveness. They are silver-tongued, gifted in the gentle art of winning friends and influencing people.
    • Wanderlust. They love to keep moving. They settle down only to have the urge to pick up and go, explore, move out, move on. They do not worry about finding work, and live well by their talents, skills, ingenuity, and wits.
    • Wild oats. In their childhood and adolescence, people with the Adventurous personality style were usually high-spirited hell-raisers and mischief makers.
    • True grit. They are courageous, physically bold, and tough. They will stand up to anyone who dares to take advantage of them.
    • No regrets. Adventurers live in the present. They do not feel guilty about the past or anxious about the future. Life is meant to be experienced now.

    [hr:f541d82323]Aggressive: Who's the boss? The Aggressive type, of course. While others may aspire to leadership, Aggressive men and women move instinctively to the helm. They are born to assume command as surely as is the top dog in their pack. Theirs is a strong, forceful personality style, more inherently powerful than any of the others. They can undertake huge responsibilities without fear of failure. They wield power with ease. They never back away from a fight. They compete with the supreme confidence of champions. How these individuals use the power that seems always at their fingertips depends on other styles in their patterns. When put to the service of a greater good, the Aggressive personality style can inspire a man or woman to great leadership, especially in times of crisis.
    • Command. Aggressive individuals take charge. They are comfortable with power, authority, and responsibility.
    • Hierarchy. They operate best within a traditional power structure where everyone knows his or her place and the lines of authority are clear.
    • Tight ship. They are highly disciplined and impose rules of order that they expect others in their charge to follow.
    • Expedience. Aggressive men and women are highly goal-directed. They take a practical, pragmatic approach to accomplishing their objectives. They do what is necessary to get the job done.
    • Guts. They are neither squeamish nor fainthearted. They can function well and bravely in difficult and dangerous situations without being distracted by fear or horror.
    • The rough-and-tumble. Aggressive people like action and adventure. They are physically assertive and often participate in or enjoy playing competitive sports, especially contact sports.

    [hr:f541d82323]Artistic:

    the average health and neurotic traits of the Artistic personality
    • Mood swings. Shifts from a moderately upbeat, outgoing, creative character to a withdrawn and sullen depressive one. When in a high state, they can be highly productive, original, humorous, and engaging. During a low state they become self-absorbed, pessimistic, apathetic, and may resort to substance abuse. The mood swings happen regularly in cycles, are similar to bipolar (manic-depression) disorder, but not as extreme in the polarity, and also the mood changes in the Artistic personality are usually more so the result of within the person and not triggered by external circumstances.
    • Artistic inclinations. People of this style often involve themselves in some sort of creative output. They may go into a state of inspiration where artistic production is strong then fall into an apathetic daze, where it becomes difficult, almost unbearable to create art. Since they have a grasp on many corners of the human personality, they have an advantage at expressing the nuances of a particular viewpoint. Many of the world's great artists have had this character style.
    • Unpredictability. They may take up new plans, jobs, residences, etc. out of impulse. They despise routine and love improvising, stimulation, and new experiences.
    • Feeling-oriented. Their impulses and feelings control their lives and dictate their appearance and decisions. They rarely make decisions through a systematic, logical follow-through approach but instead base it on their current mood.
    • Relationship difficulties. Relationships can be trying for these people. They may become promiscuous, unfaithful, or difficult to handle.
    • Low self-control. They have a difficulty saying "no" to themselves with their appetite. They may go on shopping sprees, binge on food or drink, give into sexual compulsions, etc. Afterwards, they may feel guilty about it and restrict themselves from pleasure.
    • Shaky self-confidence. Can swing from delusions of grandeur and superiority, and feeling very confident in oneself, to a loss of self-esteem and hopeless despair.

    the healthy traits and the Artistic personality at its best

    • Mood swings. Those of the Artistic temperament tend to experience a greater range of emotion than those of any other type. They are highly emotionally reactive.
    • Artistic inclinations. The Artistic type is the most inclined of all the types to be involved with the fine arts, music, or literature. They take an artistic approach to all aspects of their lives.
    • Independent work. Like "the majority of poets, novelists, composers, and to a lesser extent, of painters and sculptors," those of the Artistic type "are bound to spend a great deal of their time alone ."
    • Relationships secondary. Those of the Artistic temperament "are quite likely to choose relationships which will further their work rather than relationships which are intrinsically rewarding, and their spouses may well find that marital relations take second place."
    • Great productivity. Persons of the Artistic type are highly disciplined, gifted with superior powers of concentration, and capable of producing great quantities of high quality work; they also enjoy frequent periods of recreation and inactivity.
    • Disinhibition. They are hedonistic and impulsive; "they live Epicurean lives in the here and now, and as gracefully as possible."
    • Keen perceptions. The Artistic temperament is especially attuned to color, line, texture, shading - touch, motion, seeing, and hearing in harmony. The senses of Artistic individuals seem more keenly tuned than those of others.
    • Kindness. Although those of the Artistic type may adopt an aggressive, tough exterior, they are remarkably gentle, kind, and generous.
    • Extroversion and introversion. The interpersonal conduct of those of the Artistic type alternates between the greatest extremes of sociability and social reticence .
    • Love of nature. In many individuals of the Artistic type there "may be found an instinctive longing for the natural, the pastoral, the bucolic. They are quite at home in the wilds, and nature seems to welcome them."

    [hr:f541d82323]Conscientious: Call them the backbone of America. Conscientious-style people are the men and women of strong moral principle and absolute certainty, and they won't rest until the job is done and done right. They are loyal to their families, their causes, and their superiors. Hard work is a hallmark of this personality style; Conscientious types achieve. No accomplished doctor, lawyer, scientist, or business executive could get far without a substantial amount of Conscientious style in his or her personality pattern. Neither could a computer whiz, an efficient housekeeper, an accountant, a straight-A student, a good secretary -- or anyone else who works hard to do well. The Conscientious personality style flourishes within cultures such as ours in which the work ethic thrives. Conscientious traits -- hard work, prudence, conventionality -- may even confer a longevity advantage. We address this style first among the fourteen because the Conscientious style is adaptable, common, and thus likely to be a principal component of many diverse personality profiles. Indeed, within our society so wide a range of Conscientious behaviors is considered normal, even admirable, that it may be hard to draw the line between the Conscientious personality style and the Obsessive-Compulsive personality disorder that marks its extreme. What are we to say about the man or woman who always takes a briefcase filled with work along on a vacation? Is he or she a workaholic who can't relax and is headed for an early heart attack? Or this a person who loves to work, thrives on challenge, and is bound for great things in his or her career? That depends on whether the style enriches the six domains of this person's life or controls and distorts them.
    • Hard work. The Conscientious person is dedicated to work, works very hard, and is capable of intense, single-minded effort.
    • The right thing. To be Conscientious is to be a person of conscience. These are men and women of strong moral principles and values. Opinions and beliefs on any subject are rarely held lightly. Conscientious individuals want to do the right thing.
    • The right way. Everything must be done "right," and the Conscientious person has a clear understanding of what that means, from the correct way to balance the checkbook, to the best strategy to achieve the boss's objectives, to how to fit every single dirty dish into the dishwasher.
    • Perfectionism. The Conscientious person likes all tasks and projects to be complete to the final detail, without even minor flaws.
    • Perseverance. They stick to their convictions and opinions. Opposition only serves to strengthen their dogged determination.
    • Order and detail. Conscientious people like the appearance of orderliness and tidiness. They are good organizers, catalogers, and list makers. No detail is too small for Conscientious consideration.
    • Prudence. Thrifty, careful, and cautious in all areas of their lives, Conscientious individuals do not give in to reckless abandon or wild excess.
    • Accumulation. A "pack rat," the Conscientious person saves and collects things, reluctant to discard anything that has, formerly had, or someday may have value for him or her.

    [hr:f541d82323]Devoted: Devoted types care, and that's what makes their lives worth living. You won't find anyone more loving, more solicitous of you, more concerned for your needs and feelings or for those of a group as a whole. At their best, individuals with this style are loyal, considerate, ever-so-helpful players on the team -- whether it is a couple, the family, the assembly line, the department, the religious or charitable organization, or the military unit. Their needs are those of the group or of its leader, and their happiness comes from the fulfillment of others' directives and goals. Devoted people are the ones who tell you, "I'm happy if you're happy" -- and mean it. The Devoted style is common in our society, and it occurs among both men and women. Traditionally this helping and giving personality style has been particularly encouraged and approved among women. The customary view of the good wife has been that of a tender-hearted Devoted woman who lives through her husband and relies on him to make the worldly decisions for her, while she dedicates herself to providing a fulfilling home life for the family. As views of women's roles change in this society, some women with this personality style may have mixed feelings about expressing it. Because of today's cultural pressures on women to step out of the shadows of other people, both in and out of the home, they may feel that wanting to make someone else happy is something to be ashamed of. While these women struggle to come to terms with all sides of their personality patterns, more men are feeling freer to enjoy their own domestic, nurturing Devoted tendencies. In any case, as we will see throughout this chapter, the Devoted personality plays itself out in many ways in the personality profiles of males as well as females, traditional and otherwise.
    • Commitment. Individuals with the Devoted personality style are thoroughly dedicated to the relationships in their lives. They place the highest value on sustained relationships, they respect the institution of marriage as well as unofficial avowals of commitment, and they work hard to keep their relationships together.
    • Togetherness. They prefer the company of one or more people to being alone.
    • Teamwork. People with this personality style would rather follow than lead. They are cooperative and respectful of authority and institutions. They easily rely on others and take direction well.
    • Deference. When making decisions, they are happy to seek out others' opinions and to follow their advice.
    • Harmony. Devoted individuals are careful to promote good feelings between themselves and the important people in their lives. To promote harmony, they tend to be polite, agreeable, and tactful.
    • Consideration. They are thoughtful of others and good at pleasing them. Devoted people will endure personal discomfort to do a good turn for the key people in their lives.
    • Attachment. Relationships provide life's meaning for this personality style. Even after a painful loss of someone around whom their life was centered, they are able to form new meaningful bonds.

    [hr:f541d82323]Dramatic: Dramatic types are all heart. They have been granted the gift of feeling, with which they color the lives of everyone around them. When possessed of great talent, Dramatic men and women can transform human emotion into the highest art form. Even in their daily lives, their wit, their laughter, their sense of beauty, their flamboyance, and their sensuality can lift the spirits of a roomful of strangers. All the world's a stage for individuals with this very common personality style. Life is never dull or boring for them and certainly not for those who share it with them. Dramatic people fill their world with excitement; things happen in their lives.
    • Feelings. Dramatic men and women live in an emotional world. They are sensation oriented, emotionally demonstrative, and physically affectionate, They react emotionally to events and can shift quickly from mood to mood.
    • Color. They experience life vividly and expansively. They have rich imaginations, they tell entertaining stories, and they are drawn to romance and melodrama.
    • Attention. Dramatic people like to be seen and noticed. They are often the center of attention, and they rise to the occasion when all eyes are on them.
    • Appearance. They pay a lot of attention to grooming, and they enjoy clothes, style, and fashion.
    • Sexual attraction. In appearance and behavior, Dramatic individuals enjoy their sexuality. They are seductive, engaging, charming tempters and temptresses.
    • Engagement. Easily putting their trust in others, they are able to become quickly involved in relationships.
    • The spirit is willing. People with Dramatic personality style eagerly respond to new ideas and suggestions from others.

    [hr:f541d82323]Idiosyncratic: Idiosyncratic men and women are not like anyone else. They are dreamers, seekers of the spirit, visionaries, mystics. They march to a distinctive beat, different from the conventional rhythms that most people follow. They are true originals and often they stand out, sometimes as eccentrics, sometimes as geniuses.
    • Inner life. Idiosyncratic individuals are tuned in to and sustained by their own feelings and belief systems, whether or not others accept or understand their particular worldview or approach to life.
    • Own world. They are self-directed and independent, requiring few close relationships.
    • Own thing. Oblivious to convention, Idiosyncratic individuals create interesting, unusual, often eccentric lifestyles.
    • Expanded reality. Open to anything, they are interested in the occult, the extrasensory, and the supernatural.
    • Metaphysics. They are drawn to abstract and speculative thinking.
    • Outward view. Though they are inner-directed and follow their own hearts and minds, Idiosyncratic men and women are keen observers of others, particularly sensitive to how other people react to them.

    [hr:f541d82323]Inventive: The following ten traits and characteristics are typical of the Inventive personality type.
    • Idealized self-image. Individuals of the Inventive type develop highly idealized images of themselves with which they identify and which they love. The person is his idealized self and seems to adore it.
    • Subdued demeanor. Persons of the Inventive type are energetic, but phlegmatic in temperament. "They can be quiet, rather private, subdued in demeanor, and have artistic interests and aesthetic sensibilities."
    • Attention. Individuals of the Inventive type have a tendency to behave in such a way as to attract attention. "They can be subtle show-offs, but show-offs nonetheless."
    • Openness to culture. The Inventive person has unusual thought processes, values intellectual matters, and judges in unconventional terms. He or she is aesthetically reactive and has a wide range of interests.
    • Intelligence. "Intelligence will typically be emphasized in their self-images and social dealings." They put great stock in their ideas and demand that others do likewise.
    • Competence. The faith of those of the Inventive type is "in their ability to improvise something, and they display an unusual talent for rising to the expediency of a situation." Their focus is on competent excellence in performance.
    • Innovation. The Inventive type maintains an independent view and is "the most reluctant of all the types to do things in a particular manner just because that is the way things always have been done." They are inventors and innovators.
    • Cleverness. They are mentally bright and quick-witted. For those of the Inventive type "to be taken in, to be manipulated by another, is humiliating; this offends their joy in being masters of the art of oneupmanship (Keirsey, 185)."
    • Status. They are highly competitive in pursuit of success and prestige. They want very much to be outstanding in some way, to gain recognition, even fame and glory.
    • Self-consciousness. Persons of the Inventive type look to others for approval. They are very conscious of how others treat them and highly sensitive to criticism and negative evaluation.

    [hr:f541d82323]Leisurely: Free to be me -- no one can take away this right from a person who has a Leisurely personality style. These men and women play by the rules and fulfill their responsibilities and obligations. But once they've put in their time, they will let no person, institution, or culture deprive hem of their personal pursuit of happiness, for to the Leisurely person this is what life is all about. Some Leisurely individuals find their happiness through creative pursuits, some by relaxing with a good book. What's important to them is not how they choose to enjoy themselves but that they are guaranteed this opportunity. If threatened, these normally easy-going individuals will vigorously defend their fundamental right to do their "own thing".
    • Inalienable rights. Leisurely men and women believe in their right to enjoy themselves on their own terms in their own time. They value and protect their comfort, their free time, and their individual pursuit of happiness.
    • Enough is enough. They agree to play by the rules. They deliver what is expected of them and no more. They expect others to recognize and respect that limit.
    • The right to resist. Leisurely individuals cannot be exploited. They can comfortably resist acceding to demands that they deem unreasonable or above and beyond the call of duty.
    • Mañana. Leisurely men and women are relaxed about time. Unlike Type-A individuals, they are not obsessed by time urgency or the demands of the clock. To these individuals, haste makes waste and unnecessary anxiety. They are easygoing and optimistic that whatever needs to get done will get done, eventually.
    • I'm okay. They are not overawed by authority. They accept themselves and their approach to life.
    • Wheel of fortune. Leisurely people believe that they are just as good as everyone else and as entitled to the best things in life. They maintain that blind luck often accounts for who fares well and who fares poorly.
    • Mixed feelings. Although they feel impelled to proceed in their own direction, when their choices put them in conflict with the people they care for, Leisurely people are often of two minds about how to proceed. They do not like to risk important relationships, yet they need to feel free.

    [hr:f541d82323]Mercurial: Life is a roller coaster for those with the Mercurial personality style -- and they'll insist you come along for the ride. From the peaks to the valleys, intensity imbues their every breath. Mercurial women and men yearn for experience, and they jump into a new love or a new lifestyle with both feet, without even a glance backward. No other style, the Dramatic included, is so ardent in its desire to connect with life and with other people. And no other style is quite so capable of enduring the changes in emotional weather that such a fervidly lived life will bring.
    • Romantic attachment. Mercurial individuals must always be deeply involved in a romantic relationship with one person.
    • Intensity. They experience a passionate, focused attachment in all their relationships. Nothing that goes on between them and other people is trivial, nothing taken lightly.
    • Heart. They show what they feel. They are emotionally active and reactive. Mercurial types put their hearts into everything.
    • Unconstrained. They are uninhibited, spontaneous, fun-loving, and undaunted by risk.
    • Activity. Energy marks the Mercurial style. These individuals are lively, creative busy, and engaging. They show initiative and can stir others to activity.
    • Open mind. They are imaginative and curious, willing to experience and experiment with other cultures, roles, and value systems and to follow new paths.
    • Alternate states. People with Mercurial style are skilled at distancing or distracting themselves from reality when it is painful or harsh.

    [hr:f541d82323]Self-Confident: Self-Confident individuals stand out. They're the leaders, the shining lights, the attention-getters in their public or private spheres. Theirs is a star quality born of self-regard, self-respect, self-certainty -- all those self words that denote a faith in oneself and a commitment to one's self-styled purpose. Combined with the ambition that marks this style, that magical self-regard can transform idle dreams into real accomplishment. The Self-Confident personality style is one of the two most goal-directed of all fourteen (the other is the Aggressive style). Self-Confident men and women know what they want, and they get it. Many of them have the charisma to attract plenty of others to their goals. They are extroverted and intensely political. They know how to work the crowd, how to motivate it, and how to lead it. Hitch on to their bandwagons, and you'll be rewarded. The Self-Confident style adds go-getting power to other personality styles. For example, it counteracts the Conscientious person's tendency to get sidetracked by details, and it fuels the Adventurous person's great feats of daring. It propels any personality pattern into the realm of success. Indeed, the Self-Confident style confers an ability to be successful more than any but the Aggressive personality style.
    • Self-regard. Self-Confident individuals believe in themselves and in their abilities. They have no doubt that they are unique and special and that there is a reason for their being on this planet.
    • The red carpet. They expect others to treat them well at all times.
    • Ambition. Self-Confident people are unabashedly open about their aspirations and possibilities.
    • Politics. They are able to take advantage of the strengths and abilities of other people in order to achieve their goals, and they are shrewd in their dealings with others.
    • Competition. They are able competitors, they love getting to the top, and they enjoy staying there.
    • Stature. They identify with people of high rank and status.
    • Dreams. Self-Confident individuals are able to visualize themselves as the hero, the star, the best in their role, or the most accomplished in their field.
    • Self-awareness. These individuals have a keen awareness of their thoughts and feelings and their overall inner state of being.
    • Poise. People with the Self-Confident personality style accept compliments, praise, and admiration gracefully and with self-possession.

    [hr:f541d82323]Self-Sacrificing: To live is to serve; to love is to give. These are axioms for individuals who have the Self-Sacrificing personality style. The way they see it, their needs can wait until others' are well-served. Knowing that they have given of themselves, they feel comfortable and at peace, secure with their place in the scheme of things. At its best and most noble, this is the selfless, magnanimous personality style of which saints and good citizens are made.
    • Generosity. Individuals with the Self-Sacrificing personality style will give you the shirts off their backs if you need them. They do not wait to be asked.
    • Service. Their "prime directive" is to be helpful to others. Out of deference to others, they are noncompetitive and unambitious, comfortable coming second, even last.
    • Consideration. Self-Sacrificing people are always considerate in their dealings with others. They are ethical, honest, and trustworthy.
    • Acceptance. They are nonjudgmental, tolerant of others' foibles, and never harshly reproving. They'll stick with you through thick and thin.
    • Humility. They are neither boastful nor proud, and they're uncomfortable being fussed over. Self-Sacrificing men and women do not like being the center of attention; they are uneasy in the limelight.
    • Endurance. They are long-suffering. They prefer to shoulder their own burdens in life. They have much patience and a high tolerance for discomfort.
    • Artlessness. Self-Sacrificing individuals are rather naive and innocent. They are unaware of the often deep impact they make on other people's lives, and they tend never to suspect deviousness or underhanded motives in the people to whom they give so much of themselves.

    [hr:f541d82323]Sensitive: Sensitive people come into possession of their powers when their world is small and they know the people in it. For this commonly occurring personality style, familiarity breeds comfort, contentment, and inspiration. These men and women -- although they avoid a wide social network and shun celebrity -- can achieve great recognition for their creativity. Nestled in an emotionally secure environment, with a few dear family members or friends, the Sensitive style's imagination and spirit of exploration know no bounds. With their minds, feelings, and fantasies, Sensitive people find freedom.
    • Familiarity. Individuals with the Sensitive personality style prefer the known to the unknown. They are comfortable with, even inspired by, habit, repetition, and routine.
    • Concern. Sensitive individuals care deeply about what other people think of them.
    • Circumspection. They behave with deliberate discretion in their dealings with others. They do not make hasty judgments or jump in before they know what is appropriate.
    • Polite reserve. Socially they take care to maintain a courteous, self-restrained demeanor.
    • Role. They function best in scripted settings, vocationally and socially: when they know precisely what is expected of them, how they are supposed to relate to others, and what they are expected to say.
    • Privacy. Sensitive men and women are not quick to share their innermost thoughts and feelings with others, even those they know well.

    [hr:f541d82323]Serious: Serious men and women suffer no illusions. They don't hitch their wagons to a star, count their chickens before they're hatched, sing that life is just a bowl of cherries, or don rose-colored glasses to paint their existence a more beguiling hue. Even when things are not so pleasant, they seem them as they are. Of course, since the current culture favors individuals who "think positive", look on the bright side, and attempt to always improve themselves, somebody with a Serious style may not exactly fit the image. But Serious people don't expect to be popular. What they sacrifice in silver linings, they gain in ability to carry on in even the worst of circumstances. No other personality style is quite so able to endure when a harsh climate seems to descend on the planet. This is a no-frills, no-nonsense, just-do-it personality style, whose strength in hard times cna help everyone survive. Like many of the other personality styles, it is one where a little goes a long way.
    • Straight face. Individuals with the Serious personality style maintain a sober demeanor. They are solemn and not given to emotional expression.
    • Unpretentious. They are realistically aware of their own capabilities, but they are also aware of their own limitations; they are not tempted by vanity or self-importance.
    • Accountability. Serious people hold themselves responsible for their actions. They will not soft-pedal their own faults and do not let themselves off the hook.
    • Cogitation. They're thinkers, analyzers, evaluators, ruminators: They'll always play things over in their minds before they act.
    • Nobody's fool. Men and women with Serious personality style are sharp appraises of others. In their ability to critique other people, they are as unhesitating as in their own self-evaluation.
    • No surprises. They anticipate problems and when the worst happens, they're prepared to deal with it.
    • Contrition. Serious people suffer greatly when they realize they've been thoughtless or impolite to others.

    [hr:f541d82323]Solitary: Solitary men and women need no one but themselves. They are unmoved by the madding crowd, liberated from the drive to impress and to please. Solitary people are remarkably free of the emotions and involvements that distract so many others. What they may give up in terms of sentiment and intimacy, however, they may gain in clarity of vision. Left to their own devices, Solitary anthropologists, naturalists, mathematicians, physical scientists, filmmakers, writers, and poets, can uncover and record the facts of our existence to which our passions so often blind us.
    • Solitude. Individuals with the Solitary personality style have small need of companionship and are most comfortable alone.
    • Independence. They are self-contained and do not require interaction with others in order to enjoy their experiences or to get on in life.
    • Sangfroid. Solitary men and women are even-tempered, calm, dispassionate, unsentimental, and unflappable.
    • Stoicism. They display an apparent indifference to pain and pleasure.
    • Sexual composure. They are not driven by sexual needs. They enjoy sex but will not suffer in its absence.
    • Feet on the ground. They are unswayed by either praise or criticism and can confidently come to terms with their own behavior.

    [hr:f541d82323]Vigilant: Nothing escapes the notice of the men and women who have Vigilant personality style. These individuals possess an exceptional awareness of their environment. Call them Survivors. Their sensory antennae, continuously scanning the people and situations around them, alert them immediately to what is awry, out of place, dissonant, or dangerous, especially in their dealings with other people. Vigilant types have a special kind of hearing. They are immediately aware of the mixed messages, the hidden motivations, the evasions, and the subtlest distortions of the truth that elude or delude less gifted observers. With such a focus, Vigilant individuals naturally assume the roles of social critic, watchdog, ombudsman, and crusader in their private or our public domain, ready to spring upon the improprieties -- especially the abuses of power -- that poison human affairs.
    • Autonomy. Vigilant-style individuals possess a resilient independence. They keep their own counsel, they require no outside reassurance or advice, they make decisions easily, and they can take care of themselves.
    • Caution. They are careful in their dealings with others, preferring to size up a person before entering into a relationship.
    • Perceptiveness. They are good listeners, with an ear for subtlety, tone, and multiple levels of communication.
    • Self-defense. Individuals with Vigilant style are feisty and do not hesitate to stand up for themselves, especially when they are under attack.
    • Alertness to criticism. They take criticism very seriously, without becoming intimidated.
    • Fidelity. They place a high premium on fidelity and loyalty. They work hard to earn it, and they never take it for granted.

    [hr:f541d82323]
    Source material: http://www.geocities.com/lifexplore/oldham.htm
    SEE

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    that's beautifully formatted Joy...

    +2

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    :-)

    A long list of descriptions is difficult to read if it's not organized well and easy for the eye to follow. I was thinking of taking the line out of the top though.
    SEE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    :-)

    A long list of descriptions is difficult to read if it's not organized well and easy for the eye to follow. I was thinking of taking the line out of the top though.
    "I was thinking of giving her eyebrows." - Leonardo Da Vinci

    it's fine the way it is... :wink:

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    lol

    Now, as to the doctor's type...

    Smilingeyes' version of socionics is FAR more Ti than just about anything anyone else here has come up with. Rationality fits him far better than irrationality, and the fact that people (himself included) see him as a Te type suggests to me that he's Se + Ti > Ne + Ti. The way he writes is Ti > Te, the content of what he writes is Ti > Te, and his description of his ideal relationship/parter suggests that he values Fe. As of this moment, ISTj makes the most sense.
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    It's so funny how I've been on this forum for a while now and still don't REALLY know what & are ... the differences and how to recognize them in daily life. I hate reading theoretical description because it just doesn't make sense to me, especially with the logical functions. & are a clearer to me as I make more use of them/understand them on a personal level.


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    scarlett if you are clear on the Fe/Fi distinctions, let me know what they are because i'm not all that clear on them.

    Te/Ti is pretty clear to me theoretically but harder to recognize in practice.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Ti is about systems. Te is about what works.

    Ti: the organization of systems; structured understanding of data and knowledge, hierarchy; categorizes information based on how it relates to an existing internal system of logical understanding
    Te: the outward characteristics of events; what works, how it works, what isn't working, and what would work better; utilization data from external sources
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Ti is about systems. Te is about what works.

    Ti: the organization of systems; structured understanding of data and knowledge, hierarchy; categorizes information based on how it relates to an existing internal system of logical understanding
    Te: the outward characteristics of events; what works, how it works, what isn't working, and what would work better; utilization data from external sources
    According to this description, sounds much more pleasant ... okay, better stop as to not derail this thread? Err, perhaps more on the topic, how does Mr. Smiley demonstrate instead of ? If I am dual seeking, what would I be looking for? I hate the description of systems because I read it and go: What system? Systems? WTF? It's hard for me to understand descriptions of logical functions maybe because I am so inherently ILLOGICAL


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    Ok, I severely overestimated some people's skills. I'm sorry about overreacting and taking some suggestions as insults. I'm also man enough to admit when I fuck up.
    First eliminate every possible source of error. Thence success is inevitable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Ti is about systems. Te is about what works.

    Ti: the organization of systems; structured understanding of data and knowledge, hierarchy; categorizes information based on how it relates to an existing internal system of logical understanding
    Te: the outward characteristics of events; what works, how it works, what isn't working, and what would work better; utilization data from external sources
    I don't object with this generally. I think people will have to get into Fe and Fi.

    And of course both Te and Ti types use their 7th function. I'll reread some of SE's posts. I recall it being not so easy to follow when I first read them (to me). (yes this implies that I think he's Te).

    Lemon juice for nausea? I don't know why else someone would imbibe lemon juice.

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    @Smilingeyes

    First, your torrent of insults is totally uncalled for. Rightly or wrongly, there is a good case for saying that what you look for in a partner is Fe and your natural approach to socionics is more Ti. If you disagree with that, fine. But as for your remarks now: fuck off. Who do you think you are? Neither Joy nor I said anything to insult you. So stuff that up your ass.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    Okay, I started this off as somewhat of a joke but I find that some people here have gone deeply bonkers. Expat, Joy , you twits, my description was of Fi + Ne
    If you think that, you're the one who's bonkers imo.



    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    You're mixing up brutality with drama and Si with Ti.
    How?



    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    Oh, god. Fuck-ups. Expat, you do remember that aristocracy is not the same thing as Ti>Te?
    Yes. And which definition of aristocracy are you referring to?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    Idiots. Normally I don't care if you use a bad version of socionics but now you're even fucking up using classical socionics. Grrr, morons. Ok, I don't care, talk whatever you want. You still suck.
    I suggest you talk to your patients that way, it might help them to get better more quickly as they'll want to get away from you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    And it does you no good at all to use Ti as a swearword either.
    Who's using it as swearword? Here? You're reading too much into things.

    Finally: it doesn't matter if you intended this thread as a joke. You raised the point of your type, you have to expect that people will have different opinions from yours. Stupid, ignorant, whatever. You can't expect everyone to agree with you. Your reaction is simply childish, like a tantrum - unless it's a sort of a joke, in which case I'm sorry but it fell flat.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    Okay, I started this off as somewhat of a joke but I find that some people here have gone deeply bonkers. Expat, Joy , you twits, my description was of Fi + Ne whereas your duals have Se. You're mixing up brutality with drama and Si with Ti. Oh, god. Fuck-ups. Expat, you do remember that aristocracy is not the same thing as Ti>Te? Idiots. Normally I don't care if you use a bad version of socionics but now you're even fucking up using classical socionics. Grrr, morons. Ok, I don't care, talk whatever you want. You still suck.

    And it does you no good at all to use Ti as a swearword either.

    Bah. I'm disgusted. And now I'll go have some lemon juice.
    I've thought of you as Ti > Te for a while. I believe we discussed this once via PM. You immediately answered with insults then as well, which is interesting. In any case, your approach to Socionics is Ti > Te. Disagree, respond harshly, call names, and insult me all you'd like, but it's not going to offer any evidence that you're TeSi > TiSe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    I suggest you talk to your patients that way, it might help them to get better more quickly as they'll want to get away from you.
    ROFL!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    I suggest you talk to your patients that way, it might help them to get better more quickly as they'll want to get away from you.
    LOL
    SEE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    Okay, I started this off as somewhat of a joke but I find that some people here have gone deeply bonkers. Expat, Joy , you twits, my description was of Fi + Ne whereas your duals have Se. You're mixing up brutality with drama and Si with Ti. Oh, god. Fuck-ups. Expat, you do remember that aristocracy is not the same thing as Ti>Te? Idiots. Normally I don't care if you use a bad version of socionics but now you're even fucking up using classical socionics. Grrr, morons. Ok, I don't care, talk whatever you want. You still suck.

    And it does you no good at all to use Ti as a swearword either.

    Bah. I'm disgusted. And now I'll go have some lemon juice.
    I've thought of you as Ti > Te for a while. I believe we discussed this once via PM. You immediately answered with insults then as well, which is interesting. In any case, your approach to Socionics is Ti > Te. Disagree, respond harshly, call names, and insult me all you'd like, but it's not going to offer any evidence that you're TeSi > TiSe.
    Heh, well, it's easier for me take the suggestion of Ti from you than Expat, I mean I think you're Fe>Te so we're even .

    Expat, well, bah, his joke sucked. And I still respect him for the many many cases in which he's been right. I guess I am difficult to type so I shouldn't be amazed at this. Anyway, have fun with the thread, I will remove myself from it though and I still consider most of it a joke some of it funnier than other parts.
    Sorry about the outburst.
    First eliminate every possible source of error. Thence success is inevitable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    Okay, I started this off as somewhat of a joke but I find that some people here have gone deeply bonkers. Expat, Joy , you twits, my description was of Fi + Ne whereas your duals have Se. You're mixing up brutality with drama and Si with Ti. Oh, god. Fuck-ups. Expat, you do remember that aristocracy is not the same thing as Ti>Te? Idiots. Normally I don't care if you use a bad version of socionics but now you're even fucking up using classical socionics. Grrr, morons. Ok, I don't care, talk whatever you want. You still suck.

    And it does you no good at all to use Ti as a swearword either.

    Bah. I'm disgusted. And now I'll go have some lemon juice.
    I've thought of you as Ti > Te for a while. I believe we discussed this once via PM. You immediately answered with insults then as well, which is interesting. In any case, your approach to Socionics is Ti > Te. Disagree, respond harshly, call names, and insult me all you'd like, but it's not going to offer any evidence that you're TeSi > TiSe.
    Heh, well, it's easier for me take the suggestion of Ti from you than Expat, I mean I think you're Fe>Te so we're even .
    Then you have not observed my interactions with others much. I seriously doubt that any of the Fe/Ti regulars who understand much of anything about Socionics would think I'm a Fe type.


    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder
    ...

    Pardon the bringing up of deleted posts, but Smilingeyes' outburst is surprising coming from a supposed Delta.
    Yeah, that was my point about TeSi vs. TiSe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    Okay, I started this off as somewhat of a joke but I find that some people here have gone deeply bonkers. Expat, Joy , you twits, my description was of Fi + Ne whereas your duals have Se. You're mixing up brutality with drama and Si with Ti. Oh, god. Fuck-ups. Expat, you do remember that aristocracy is not the same thing as Ti>Te? Idiots. Normally I don't care if you use a bad version of socionics but now you're even fucking up using classical socionics. Grrr, morons. Ok, I don't care, talk whatever you want. You still suck.

    And it does you no good at all to use Ti as a swearword either.

    Bah. I'm disgusted. And now I'll go have some lemon juice.
    I've thought of you as Ti > Te for a while. I believe we discussed this once via PM. You immediately answered with insults then as well, which is interesting. In any case, your approach to Socionics is Ti > Te. Disagree, respond harshly, call names, and insult me all you'd like, but it's not going to offer any evidence that you're TeSi > TiSe.
    GOD FUCKING DAMMIT JOY PLEASE SHUT THE FUCK UP

    I've been telling you you fuck up everything since a year, shit, and now you're surprised somebody else calls you names?

    And you also equate name calling with a preference for whatever function you claim being against yours...it's a mindfuck. Don't be surprised when people are angered if you deny things that are so real that their denial is...just...impossible?
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  34. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    Okay, I started this off as somewhat of a joke but I find that some people here have gone deeply bonkers. Expat, Joy , you twits, my description was of Fi + Ne whereas your duals have Se. You're mixing up brutality with drama and Si with Ti. Oh, god. Fuck-ups. Expat, you do remember that aristocracy is not the same thing as Ti>Te? Idiots. Normally I don't care if you use a bad version of socionics but now you're even fucking up using classical socionics. Grrr, morons. Ok, I don't care, talk whatever you want. You still suck.

    And it does you no good at all to use Ti as a swearword either.

    Bah. I'm disgusted. And now I'll go have some lemon juice.
    I've thought of you as Ti > Te for a while. I believe we discussed this once via PM. You immediately answered with insults then as well, which is interesting. In any case, your approach to Socionics is Ti > Te. Disagree, respond harshly, call names, and insult me all you'd like, but it's not going to offer any evidence that you're TeSi > TiSe.
    GOD FUCKING DAMMIT JOY PLEASE SHUT THE FUCK UP

    I've been telling you you fuck up everything since a year, shit, and now you're surprised somebody else calls you names?

    And you also equate name calling with a preference for whatever function you claim being against yours...it's a mindfuck. Don't be surprised when people are angered if you deny things that are so real that their denial is...just...impossible?
    You've misunderstood my post.
    SEE

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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    Lol. ANd you always give those half-assed replies when you don't know what to say.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    Okay, I started this off as somewhat of a joke but I find that some people here have gone deeply bonkers. Expat, Joy , you twits, my description was of Fi + Ne whereas your duals have Se. You're mixing up brutality with drama and Si with Ti. Oh, god. Fuck-ups. Expat, you do remember that aristocracy is not the same thing as Ti>Te? Idiots. Normally I don't care if you use a bad version of socionics but now you're even fucking up using classical socionics. Grrr, morons. Ok, I don't care, talk whatever you want. You still suck.

    And it does you no good at all to use Ti as a swearword either.

    Bah. I'm disgusted. And now I'll go have some lemon juice.
    I've thought of you as Ti > Te for a while. I believe we discussed this once via PM. You immediately answered with insults then as well, which is interesting. In any case, your approach to Socionics is Ti > Te. Disagree, respond harshly, call names, and insult me all you'd like, but it's not going to offer any evidence that you're TeSi > TiSe.
    GOD FUCKING DAMMIT JOY PLEASE SHUT THE FUCK UP

    I've been telling you you fuck up everything since a year, shit, and now you're surprised somebody else calls you names?

    And you also equate name calling with a preference for whatever function you claim being against yours...it's a mindfuck. Don't be surprised when people are angered if you deny things that are so real that their denial is...just...impossible?
    You've misunderstood my post.
    I'm not sure why you think he misunderstood your post when he didn't even state what he disagrees with.

    Seriously, I'm confused. FDG, what is it that Joy's got wrong?

    Nothing against either of you. Just a lil confused and curious.
    INTp
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    it's a fucking conspiracy, i swear
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mea
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    Okay, I started this off as somewhat of a joke but I find that some people here have gone deeply bonkers. Expat, Joy , you twits, my description was of Fi + Ne whereas your duals have Se. You're mixing up brutality with drama and Si with Ti. Oh, god. Fuck-ups. Expat, you do remember that aristocracy is not the same thing as Ti>Te? Idiots. Normally I don't care if you use a bad version of socionics but now you're even fucking up using classical socionics. Grrr, morons. Ok, I don't care, talk whatever you want. You still suck.

    And it does you no good at all to use Ti as a swearword either.

    Bah. I'm disgusted. And now I'll go have some lemon juice.
    I've thought of you as Ti > Te for a while. I believe we discussed this once via PM. You immediately answered with insults then as well, which is interesting. In any case, your approach to Socionics is Ti > Te. Disagree, respond harshly, call names, and insult me all you'd like, but it's not going to offer any evidence that you're TeSi > TiSe.
    GOD FUCKING DAMMIT JOY PLEASE SHUT THE FUCK UP

    I've been telling you you fuck up everything since a year, shit, and now you're surprised somebody else calls you names?

    And you also equate name calling with a preference for whatever function you claim being against yours...it's a mindfuck. Don't be surprised when people are angered if you deny things that are so real that their denial is...just...impossible?
    You've misunderstood my post.
    I'm not sure why you think he misunderstood your post when he didn't even state what he disagrees with.

    Seriously, I'm confused. FDG, what is it that Joy's got wrong?

    Nothing against either of you. Just a lil confused and curious.
    His post indicates that he assumes that I think SmilingEyes is whatever type just because SmilingEyes has spoke against me, which is definitely not the case. He's also assuming that I'm somehow effected negatively by people being irritated by me or responding negatively to me. These are both very incorrect assumptions.

    First of all, I found SmilingEyes response amusing. I was not upset or offended in anyway, nor does it bother me in the least to think that he or FDG or most other people may be unhappy with me. When they respond to me in that manner it actually has a positive affect on my mood, if anything, because it's funny. (Though FDG's insults don't usually have any type of affect on me.)

    Secondly, I do not think that SmilingEyes is Ti/Fe > Te/Fi because of his interactions with me. It's due to the nature and content of his posts about Socionics.

    Thirdly, the reason that I brought up SmilingEyes insults has more to do with Se/Ni vs. Si/Ne than anything. I see him as being more similar to me because of his reactions than different from me, as FDG had assumed.
    SEE

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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    @ Expat and implied: I find it strange and wonder why you hesitate to discuss the differences between / and / in this particular thread while in so many others you have seemed quite willing to delve into and explain your opinions and thoughts. Discussions with Phaedrus and XoX come to mind, for example. What might be different about this situation?

    In any case, I, personally, would appreciate an explanation of why Smilingeyes' response sounds Fe'ish. Is it the "warmth" part?

    I know it can be unwise to theorize based on individual experiences or circumstances, but when I (who I assume am Fi dominant) am close to someone, I show them more consistent warmth than I do people who I am not as close to. Perhaps that is what he is referring to, a bond wherein warmth can be consistently found? If that is not Fi or if I have otherwise misunderstood, please explain it to me.
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Actually I think astralsilky is on to something .
    !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    I have to say that I don't believe in type change, not the way Smilingeyes described it: ESFj -> ENFj -> ENTj -> ESTj. I don't believe it because I have never observed it in either myself or anyone else I have been in contact with for decades.

    That doesn't mean that it can't happen, of course, and if he says he experienced it, then it's difficult to say that he hasn't. Perhaps some people do experience it, and others don't.

    However, for the sake of argument, I will raise the possibility. I will assume - for the sake of argument - that he has one type, and that at different points of his life he behaved in ways that could be described as ESFj, ENFj, ENTj, ESTj.

    Of course, that one type will be neither of those 4. It will be something else. A type which, at least at some levels, could behave and perceive things in ways not too different from ESFj, ENFj, ENTj, ESTj. But it couldn't be any of these.
    Are you implying that he would be another existing socionics type, or a new "type" - i.e., on a different kind of level (e.g., more integrated)?

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