Leavingand
aside:
Firm means firm.
Gentle means gentle.
I'm sorry to HarryBottom, but I am not meaning to be patronizing. He says he can relate more to ENFp than ENFj. ENFp belongs to a gentle quadra while ENFj belongs to a firm quadra. As I mentioned above, I beleive that Harry is INFj as he can relate more with ENFp. In additon Harry prefers gentleness, not firmness.
If he is not ENFp then I would guess he maybe ISFp and his dual is the gentle ENTp.
Hugo, look at it this way:
You ask two questions and expect one answer that applies to both when the nature of both of these questions are diametrically opposite in some sense.
Don't you see what's wrong with that logic?
"To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"
"Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."
It is not diametrically opposite. I'll tell you why.Originally Posted by MysticSonic
Take INTj's for example. They prefer to be gentle to people and want to be treated gently by people. You want to get what you give, or vice versa.
Leaving
Firm means firm.
Gentle means gentle.
I'm sorry to HarryBottom, but I am not meaning to be patronizing. He says he can relate more to ENFp than ENFj. ENFp belongs to a gentle quadra while ENFj belongs to a firm quadra. As I mentioned above, I beleive that Harry is INFj as he can relate more with ENFp. In additon he prefers gentleness.
If he is not ENFp then I would guess he maybe ISFp and his dual is the gentle ENTp.
I don't think anyone is always firm or anyone is always gentle.
I am INTj and am gentle. If I am gentle with someone and they don't return the gentleness back, I can act firmly with them next time. However, I don't want to be firm with them though.
"Take INTj's for example. They prefer to be gentle to people and want to be treated gently by people. You want to get what you give, or vice versa."
That's not true. Like I said before, ESTjs treat other people FIRMLY, and INFps treat other people, usually, GENTLY.
Some INFps are evil though. O.O
"To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"
"Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."
My knowledge of INFps is that they can seem extroverted when they actually are not. This is probably due to thein the ego block.
Why else is their mood described as:
wacky, goofy, dreamy; clown; interested in people’s inner life and where people are going with their emotional life
Look at this, Hugo's preying on the way Transigent worded his statement while changing the ENTIRE meaning of it around!
INFps usually are NOT firm, that's the point.
"To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"
"Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."
When I say firm, it has to be self-perception rather than other people perception of them.
Mystic:
Your talking as if I am playing with Transigents words intentionally, when I am not.
It's about self perception rather than mine or your perception.
The best thing to do is to ask INFps themselves. But it must be definately known that they are INFps.
Also 'firm' means "I prefer to be firm with people and be treated firmly by people".
Transigent, I hope you're not taking me the wrong way.
I'm happy you did not take me the wrong way.
Leaving and aside:
Firm means firm.
Gentle means gentle.
I'm sorry to HarryBottom, but I am not meaning to be patronizing. He says he can relate more to ENFp than ENFj. ENFp belongs to a gentle quadra while ENFj belongs to a firm quadra. As I mentioned above, I beleive that Harry is INFj as he can relate more with ENFp.
If he is not ENFp then I would guess he maybe ISFp and his dual is the gentle ENTp.
Dear GOD man, I AM an INFP. To the tee. Every description describes me to the bone. I have already described how I am not a J and I don't particularly care to go any farther. I don't really care to delge deeply in the reasons for me being an introvert or an extrovert. Trust me on the fact that I am an INTROVERT. I am not some fool in question. I understand you dont mean to be patronizing, but the fact is, your accusation is WRONG. I am confident, 100%, that I am an INFP.
Lets break this down in to simple, pretty little pieces. We'll make it so ease is a delicious, dripping aroma from this post, so maybe you can see eye to eye with me, devour it, and come to the true enlightenment that I am a P type. I REALLY don't want to have to give you personal examples, though I have many, because it will simply increase the size of my post 10 fold. Here we go.... piece by piece.... from socionics.com.
JUDGING TYPES
I couln't really care less.do not like to leave unanswered questions
Ha! NOT IN MY LIFE TIME.plan work ahead and tend to finish it
A changeable decision is the best one.do not like to change their decisions
Yeah, THATS ME! (Implied with an insanely huge whoping o sarcasm of coarse)have relatively stable workability
Disipline my ass.easy follow rules and discipline
Perceiving types
Very true.act impulsively following the situation
Hell yah.can start many things at once without finishing them properly
Thats heaven.prefer to have freedom from obligations
Just like chocolate chip cookies, always better fresh!are curious and like a fresh look at things
Hmmmm... YES! Hold on, I THINK I'm sencing a PATTERN here, how about YOU?work productivity depends on their mood
YES. Are you happy? PIECE BY PIECE.often act without any preparation
ALSO, I thought I should mention.... I had meant to say that I was more like the ENFJ than the ENFP, not the other way around. I had both in my head and I accidently typed ENFP instead of ENFJ. This is going by the type profile on socionics.com, because I do not know any ENFJs personally.
I hope I have proved this. If I have to go piece by piece further with I/E or even the full INFP/INFJ descriptions I will, but I would rather not. If it were up to me, I'd rather you tickle me pink and just agree with me. Because, trust me, being the INFP that I am, I have thought about it, over and over, in that attempt to discover myslef better... and I AM an INFP.
Hugo,
You take 'firm' and 'gentle' as they are, literally; but to other people there are nuances to these adjectives. This causes misunderstanding. There is a need for more clarity.
NFp- (sick of nick)
I AM.But it must be definately known that they are INFps.
Yes you sound like an INFP. You don't have to prove yourself....some types (esp. INFP/INFJ) just know themselves better.
Thank you for the support. It's extremely appreciated.Yes you sound like an INFP. You don't have to prove yourself....some types (esp. INFP/INFJ) just know themselves better.
Hey, I just recall an INFp guy I used to know back in the past. I am sure he is an INFp.
He is gentle to people and does not like to be treated roughly. In fact, between the two of us, I was the one who was more likely to get occasionally aggressive. He really cannot stand it when people get angry at him and is quick to pardon those who offend him once they apologize.
nfp-
And I agree that INFP's aren't firm. Actually, INFJ's are the ones that can be gently firm... but only when necessary. :wink:
Oh yes Monica. I definitely agree.
I read it and I immediately understood it, Hugo, so I suppose I merely assumed you read it, understood it, and twisted the words around, but I suppose the fact that you wish to retain the validity of your "test" would cause you to draw conclusions from statements that support its validity.
"To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"
"Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."
When someone comes up with a new theoretical system that is interesting, like this one, I never believe the people who come in, refuting it and saying that it doesn't work. I am not sure why, but it seems as though their comments are too
"sowwy u r rong i am estj but i like it hot lololol!!! m i rite???""
Nice system Hugo. Keep it up. Though I lurk most of the time, your posts are always something I make sure to read. Don't let the "sensers" keep you down, I see the depth and potential in your line of reasoning.
Thanks, I appreciate it.
Further thoughts - with regards to the ego and super-id blocks:
Alpha and Delta have in commonand
Beta and Gamma have in commonand
Alpha and Beta have in commonand
Gamma and Delta have in common
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Only, taking into account
Alpha and Delta actively seek comfort.
Beta and Gamma actively seek vigour.
Only, taking into account
Alpha and Delta actively seek improvement.
Beta and Gamma actively seek foresight.
Only, taking into account
Alpha and Beta actively seek open emotion.
Gamma and Delta actively seek hidden emotion.
Only, taking into account
Alpha and Beta actively seek order.
Gamma and Delta actively seek productivity.
Perhaps the following is a better description of the Quadra:
Alpha + Delta want a comfortable lifestyle.
Beta + Gamma want an energetic lifestyle.
Question:
What do you prefer?
-to be comfortable (alpha and delta)
-to be energetic (beta and gamma)
What do you prefer?
-to be comfortable (alpha and delta)
-to be energetic (beta and gamma)
Again, to be confortable all the way. >_>
Hypothesis matches here again.
How about asking the question in a way to attain "values" more than own will? Stuff up to our 5th or 6th function won't really show up, and we still value it.
"Do you think it is better for people interrelationships in general to be firm or to be gentle?"
I'm not sure... I wonder how difficult a quadra questionnaire would be to made it.
But I bet one is already tempted to start it founded on the common value list two posts aboveand to ponder the test somehow the same way rmcnew tries to look for the hidden agenda on his megatest.
First attempt on that test too:
I look for confort, foresight, hidden emotional life and order.
And i'd say it doesn't fits me
The semantic barrier on psychology is -so- terrible ^_^
That question makes so much more sense Hugo; like I said before, the issues that infilitrated the first question was that it asked a yes or no answer that applied both to a subjective and objective question, and that they were asked together.
Oh, and comfortable all the way.
Se? That's a laugh.
"To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"
"Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."
HarryBottom is an INFP IMO.
@Hugo, I don't think your original test here made much sense, but I do like the idea of testing for someone's Quadra first, narrowing it down to four types. If you could make a simple test that tests on the values then it could save people a lot of time messing around trying to find their type.
Which test? I've made lots of tests. But I think you are talking about the test in the following link:
http://the16types.info/forums/viewto...er=asc&start=0
In fact you proved that it worked. You said that you got the order NT-SF for my test, which indicates that you are xNTp. As I understand it, you are ENTp.
When you say make a test based on values, what do you mean? It would be good if you have a go at making a test.
I was actually talking about the test on this thread to seperate E/I. As for being an ENTP, I have doubted that and think that I was wrong about it. I think I'm an ISTP and if I am then that shows how people can be confused about their own types. I was almost certain before that my dominant function was Ne, but I realized that I was taking my sensing for granted and focused to much on the Ne. Maybe it is a dual-seeking thing. Maybe I wanted my dominant function to be Ne? I don't know, but I hear this happens more often then I thought.
As for the Quadra-Value test, you were at least in the right direction with this:
What do you prefer?
-to be comfortable (alpha and delta)
-to be energetic (beta and gamma)
I was thinking if we put the Quadra values together then it might be easy for people to pick out which Quadra they belong to. If you could do that, then people would generally be able to come down to two types fairly quickly.
I've tried to test using Quadra values before and it did not work. It has only worked now with regards to
hi. how's it goin. i'm an enfp, new to this site. i was browsing the pages, basically because i have no concept of where i am on the site, and came across one of a man called "hugo's" test. this test, although seemingly working for many people, does not seem as though it will work for everyone. although it was right about me, it seems to be generalizing introversion and extroversion. i acknowledge the fact that introverts generally want to be treated/ treat others firmly and extroverts generally want to be treated/ treat others gently, but it seems as though the test will work for everyone except for introverted feeling types and extroverfted thinking types (for the most part). infp's seem to be a rather strange breed of introvert, and from my personal dealings with them, i honestly do not belive that they would treat anyone firmly, let alone like to be treaty firmly. maybe i'm crazy. maybe i'm an opinionated bastard. maybe i'm just an enfp. well, thanks for your time, i need to be leaving before i type anymore.
"What do you prefer?
-to be comfortable (alpha and delta)
-to be energetic (beta and gamma)"
It works for me. However, I think you should change the word "prefer" to "desire." You see, I was a really confused at first because the word "prefer" just sounds so casual. Extraverted sensing is in my super-id block so it's more of a desire than a preference. Do you get what I'm saying? I mean an ESTP probably wouldn't mind the word "prefer" because it's like asking a cross-country runner if they would prefer to run eight miles, as opposed to like seven. And I don't really know how to articulate this, but INFPs and INTPs are basically "crippled" as far as extraverted sensing goes. So yeah. That's my 2 cents.
Hey, yah the comfort/energetic thing totally works for me
Thanks for your comment. Yes, I got a similar feedabck but have changed the wording which seems to be working now.
Here is the new wording:
What do you desire?
-To be comfortable (alpha and delta)
-To be energetic (beta and gamma)
If you are xNTj, which word describes you best:
Energetic (ENTj)
Comfort (INTj)
If you are xNTp, which word describes you best:
Energetic (INTp)
Comfort (ENTp)
If you are xSFj, which word describes you best:
Energetic (ISFj)
Comfort (ESFj)
If you are xSFp, which word describes you best:
Energetic (ESFp)
Comfort (ISFp)
If you are xNFp, which word describes you best:
Energetic (INFp)
Comfort (ENFp)
If you are xNFj, which word describes you best:
Energetic (ENFj)
Comfort (INFj)
If you are xSTp, which word describes you best:
Energetic (ESTp)
Comfort (ISTp)
If you are xSTj, which word describes you best:
Energetic (ISTj)
Comfort (ESTj)
I much prefer comfort. By the way I think this new question works better than the firm/gentle one.
Laura
INTj, intuitive subtype?
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