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Thread: Johann Sebastian Bach

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    Default Johann Sebastian Bach









    [/url]

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    Oh come on, someone must have an idea about Bach's type. He had such a distinctive face; that must count for something.

    Here are some ideas that have been put forth before:

    INTj because his music's unfolding of ideas sounds like "inner logic."
    ESTj because he was a practical musician, and family man, and very prolific (in both areas)
    INTp because people who seem INTj are really INTp
    ...or...you fill in the blank.

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    I can give you my opinion on the Skid Row's singer. ESFp.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    For his industriousness that touches every area of his life, from work to home (lots of musical compositions and kids): EJ temperament

    That gives four choices: ESTj, ENFj, ENTj, ESFj

    Maybe ESTj.

    (You aren't gonna take this seriously)

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    Quote Originally Posted by stefana
    For his industriousness that touches every area of his life, from work to home (lots of musical compositions and kids): EJ temperament

    That gives four choices: ESTj, ENFj, ENTj, ESFj

    Maybe ESTj.

    (You aren't gonna take this seriously)
    Well, you're not the first person to say ESTj. But here's where I have trouble...

    First of all, the general argument: Talking about ESTj in particular, people say that someone is ESTj as soon as industriousness is brought up.

    For example, once on this forum, someone said that Orson Welles was ESTj. Why? For no other reason than that he did a lot of stuff.

    I mean, I'm not saying Orson Welles wasn't ESTj; it's just that the person had no other reason except that he did stuff.

    Don't other people do stuff? I mean, being industrious in a solitary activity like composition could also indicate I. Certainly, there are lots of types who accomplished a lot of things. I've noticed also that some ENTps often get an amazing amount of stuff done, almost effortlessly. In fact, I know people of all sorts of types who get lots of things done.

    So much for my rant about industriousness=ESTj or =Ej.

    But the other problem I have is that whenever I do something out of the ordinary, especially in composition...say if I write a choral piece, or a fugue or something....it always seems that it's an ESTj who criticizes the impracticality: "That's too hard for an amateur group." "Why did you write something so elaborate?" "That wasn't the assignment. In 18th century counterpoint, you don't start a fugue in D minor and modulate to G# minor."

    And yet Bach seemed to be the intellectual explorer, always coming up with these weird twisting motifs. And he also got into a lot of trouble himself, writing stuff that others thought was too difficult to sing, or hard for the congregation to follow.

    I'm not saying he couldn't be ESTj...just that he was the antithesis of most ESTjs I know....except Smilex who says he's ESTj....but most ESTjs seem to want everything to be practical and easy.

    I will agree though that in a certain sense he was in the ESj world. I wonder if he was so fully ESj and INj at the same time that it makes him hard to type.

    What type do you think he looks like?

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    Wo, Jonathan. I actually posted that as a joke (which is why I said you are not going to take it seriously).

    Using industriousness to decide someone as having an EJ temperament is a poor criteria so your rant is justified. Indeed, there are also non EJ types who are hardworking and productive out there.

    What type I think he looks like... Hmm I am not too fond of VI-ing portraits or statues but my guess is that he's a judging thinker.

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    "Information without energy is useless" Nowisthetime's Avatar
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    Default Johann Sebastian Bach

    Type him!

    Picture for VI:



    Some music for AI (audio identification):







    Could he have been ESTj?

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    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
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    JS Bach was a prophet of God, like Moses, Jesus and Mohammed.
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    Ok, I'll answer myself with some very random thoughts:

    I thought he could be something like ESTj. (I've even read it somewhere, I think). Te+Si could make sense, I think. His work is very formal, and he emphasizes formality. Developing the art of rule bound music, like the fuge. I think of Bach that his music is not about feelings, it's just pure music.

    Anyway, I don't think he's SEI.

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    Te-INTp

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Maybe ISTp or ESFp. He is 100% NOT a J type. If he was then the only other option would be ESFj, but ESFj's are not that driven and I don't think they would have the drive to produce that much music as Bach did. I absolutely love his music.

    ISTp's are the kings/queens of music like John Lennon.
    Elivis was ESFp; so maybe Bach was ESFp?
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 04-24-2010 at 04:40 PM.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Removed at User Request

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    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    To go on about Bach, Bach music is construed entirely by technicalities....
    Not so. Bach is also emoyionally very rich, but it takes some life experience to realize that, for the emotionality of Bach is quite a different thing:



    Mache dich, mein Herze, rein, Ich will Jesum selbst begraben.
    Denn er soll nunmehr in mir Für und für Meer en meer
    Seine süsse Ruhe haben.
    Welt, geh aus, lass Jesum ein !
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Not so. Bach is also emoyionally very rich, but it takes some life experience to realize that, for the emotionality of Bach is quite a different thing:
    Yes, All emotions in Bach's works come in the form of pure music, they are translated into the music, so many T types like Bach, it doesn't provoke them.

    He is extremly formal and technical, but the technicalities always serves the music, not the other way around.

    It's really hard to guess the type of a composer, I think. You listen to the music and it's difficult to decide what would be a sign of N or S etc.

    Ok, but his music is more important than his type

    I like the harpsichord, the sound is so tickling!


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    Bump

    It's over 3 years since I made this thread. How time flies. Now I think he was probably ILI, just as someone suggested earlier in this thread. I think you can get an impression of and in Bachs music. Especially in the creative position makes sense to me.

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    This picture gives impression of ESTP.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    INTp ? (up)
    sound Se Ni, not sure of Fi Te
    "The final delusion is the belief that one has lost all delusion."

    -- Maurice Chapelain

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    Bach is boring. ESTj.

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    Quote Originally Posted by octo View Post
    Word to all of this post. I would also add that the technicality and intricacy should be viewed as partially a result of his era rather than solely a reflection of his personality.

    I was going to mention that too. This also goes for the relative "boringness" of the music. I also find his music relatively boring (at least compared to Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Mendelssohn, etc). I dont think that necessarily lends clues as to his socionic typing.
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    Why don't we just use the unbiased photographs we have of him?
    Why don't we just read the interviews people made with him?

    But seriously, I reckon that music at the time was greatly influenced by the zeitgeist of the period, so to classify J. S. Bach as a certain type based on his music is to try to apply Socionics theory to categorise his music (not illegitimate, but you're not typing the person), which would be probably more useful for assigning a type to the style of music of the period.

    I don't know why, but it seems that Baroque Music, Classical Music, Romantic, 20th, pretty much made up all of the music of their respective periods, whereas now people can write in any style and often vary, so how people write in the past is probably more indicative of the era rather than themselves.

    Secondly, I know musicians who write different styles of music based off different eras - implicitly here I'm saying that I can't identify any Socionics IEs in their different positions - so I don't think what people write is necessarily related to how they are as a person.
    Warm Regards,



    Clowns & Entropy

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    Éminence grise mikemex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    ISTp's are the kings/queens of music like John Lennon.
    John Lennon SLI? Stop smoking that shit Maritsa, it's not good for you.

    I've always seen Bach as SEI.
    [] | NP | 3[6w5]8 so/sp | Type thread | My typing of forum members | Johari (Strengths) | Nohari (Weaknesses)

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    John Lennon SLI? Stop smoking that shit Maritsa, it's not good for you.

    I've always seen Bach as SEI.
    They make great musicians...what's wrong with that?
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Fi/Te something

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    Pretty difficult, i'm kind of intuiting here, but my guess is SLI. If not then ILI, or maybe, just maybe SLE-Ti.

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    LSI or LIE 1w9 sx/so
    Last edited by Dauphin; 02-24-2018 at 02:54 AM.

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    Johann Sebastian Bach - ISFP - Dumas


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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khcs View Post
    Johann Sebastian Bach - ISFP - Dumas
    You can't be serious!
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)


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    He looks exactly like a SLI i know, lol. Same calm, diffuse stare.

  29. #29

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    obvious Ni valuing intuitive

    ILI

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    I think LSE

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    Quote Originally Posted by echidna1000 View Post
    I think LSE
    LSE, a type with Ni (a function that is highly correlated with artistic abilities) as vulnerable function for JSB? bach's music is full of symbolism and cryptic messages.

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    Aside from his splendid music, very little is known of Grandpa Bach. What we do know of him suggests that he was not a very mild creature. One story about him after another conveys that impression. I will not recap the information; anyone can do the research for themselves. Do I think he was an ILI? Probably not, given the history he seems to have of being temperamental. Do I think he was an LSE? It would be surprising to me if he were, because I love his music, and LSE is not one of my more compatible types. How about ISFp? Nothing about him and his music suggests that to me, so I think not. If I were to guess, I would say he was probably of an EJ temperament. If not that, he was an ESTp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by soundofconfusion View Post
    LSE, a type with Ni (a function that is highly correlated with artistic abilities) as vulnerable function for JSB? bach's music is full of symbolism and cryptic messages.
    Ni associated with artistic abilities? Where did you get that from?

    Ok, what was the deepest, most Ni thing Bach hid as a cryptic message in his music? Best I could find was him spelling out his name in musical nomenclature

    Rather than do things like say "artistic stuff = Ni", it's much better to question what the underlying motivation was. Was it aesthetically oriented? or was it oriented towards some deeper, transcendent meaning?

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