Double dose of Fe

[Blaze]

How does it make you feel?

I have been getting big doses of Fe from this guy (who could be enfj) and it feels kind of good and very flattering. But then I start to feel kind of anxious and almost self protective like I'm an open book and all you have to do is dose me and I'll do whatever you want. It seems kind of dangerous or something. Not that I'm doing whatever he wants, I just feel like unless I keep careful track then I could conceivably do whatever he wants if things keep up. And also I think that maybe I am self centered for liking so much flattery and I start to suspect I'm being manipulated, so I back off a little.

It's kind of scary, that dual seeking function.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[FDG]

Too much Fe in that manner would make me suspicious but it's not my dual-seeking. I don't think use of Te would bother me, it'd probably make me less uncomfortable not more, but I can't think of any RL examples.

Like sombody that works too much

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[FDG]

Too much Fe in that manner would make me suspicious but it's not my dual-seeking. I don't think use of Te would bother me, it'd probably make me less uncomfortable not more, but I can't think of any RL examples.

Like sombody that works too much

Oh! Working too much is Te? I'd probably just leave them alone figuring they'd rather work anyway.

I *think* Tes are the most likely to have problems with workaholism, out of all types.

[UDP]

How does it make you feel?

I have been getting big doses of Fe from this guy (who could be enfj) and it feels kind of good and very flattering. But then I start to feel kind of anxious and almost self protective like I'm an open book and all you have to do is dose me and I'll do whatever you want. It seems kind of dangerous or something. Not that I'm doing whatever he wants, I just feel like unless I keep careful track then I could conceivably do whatever he wants if things keep up. And also I think that maybe I am self centered for liking so much flattery and I start to suspect I'm being manipulated, so I back off a little.

It's kind of scary, that dual seeking function.

... it makes me very suspicious, because of past situations.
I know and deal with pretty well, so it usually doesn't 'bother' me...
But INTjs especially have to make sure they don't get emotionally bound up with the wrong people, just because they're good with .

[ILENTp]

edit

[Gilly]

How does it make you feel?

I have been getting big doses of Fe from this guy (who could be enfj) and it feels kind of good and very flattering. But then I start to feel kind of anxious and almost self protective like I'm an open book and all you have to do is dose me and I'll do whatever you want. It seems kind of dangerous or something. Not that I'm doing whatever he wants, I just feel like unless I keep careful track then I could conceivably do whatever he wants if things keep up. And also I think that maybe I am self centered for liking so much flattery and I start to suspect I'm being manipulated, so I back off a little.

It's kind of scary, that dual seeking function.

That would absolutely make sense as the perspective of a beneficiary in a relation of benefit (you being ENTp, that would make him an ENFj).

[Blaze]

I think entp is the benefactor, enfj is the beneficiary.

I don't get the same thing from my benefactor, estj. I get Si vibes from them. Like cracka, he "cracks" me up, this could be Si?

But the Fe with esfj's and enfj's, I find I really respond to that from the inside . . . I wonder how it would feel from an isfp, coming from their creative function?

But back to topic, other entp's or intj's, have you experience with the Fe thing or the double dose of Fe thing? What do you do?

[Kristiina]

I used to briefly hang out with an ESFj Fe-sub. It was about a year ago. I acted less Fe then. (been trying to let the Fe come out and it shows.) It was pretty fun for a little while, but even I eventually got the feeling that I was being manipulated. We talked about personalities as well and she seemed extremely different from me - energetic, fun and outgoing. She was in one of those pyramid scheme jobs and invited me many times. We had a few awkward conversations about the nature of that company and I think it might have eventually been partly the reason why we "drifted apart".

PS! If he's ENFj, then probably his main goal is to make you laugh. There's not much more. I feel popular, outgoing and "worthy of my existence" when I can constantly cheer up people. It gives a meaning to my every-day life, because I feel that the mood of a person will have significant impact on the way he reacts to different situations. Basically I believe that there is a cascade of small, but not less significant, events and the difference in mood of any person will lead to further positive or negative (undoubtedly important) events in the world. So if I make people happy, I might be saving lives, saving jobs, improving the well being of people without even knowing about it.

[Creepy-Diana]

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[Kristiina]

Hehehe. My kids and I have been listening to "A Series of Unfortunate Events" and we just finished 'The Hostile Hospital'. What you just said Kristiina reminds me of the volunteers fighting disease. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volunte...ghting_Disease

[/quote]

lol. I can identify with their song and I can totally understand why they do what they do.

Disclaimer: I wouldn't sing to people in hospitals. I'm afraid of cooties and hospitals are full of cooties.

[Joy]

I would think too much Fi would feel stalkerish or psycho somehow. Or whiney.

[Blaze]

*edit*

[Kristiina]

Sounds like what you are saying though is that this is not intentionally manipulative.

I've had many discussions about what is manipulation. The word doesn't have a real meaning in the society. "to modify people into thinking/feeling a specific thing"? Is it manipulation if you don't lol at funerals? Is it manipulation when you listen to your sad friend even when you don't feel like it? Is it manipulation when you tell your friend she doesn't look fat even when you think she should lose a few pounds... The explanations of that word are very bad. Isn't body language always manipulation? (people use it to provoke/avoid certain reactions).

"It's only manipulation when one person has something to gain and the other person loses something." Making people happy can't be manipulation, because both have something to gain.

It's deliberate, but when I'm already talking to someone, I can't stop myself from doing it. I'm well aware of it, but I rarely try to stop myself. I deliberately provoke people to be in a good mood, because it gives me energy and when I have more energy, I can try to cheer up more people, but I'm not entirely sure it can be called manipulation. :wink:

[Blaze]

Good points, for sure.

Kristiina, how would and enfj relate to an entp? I mean, I'm not depressed or anything . . . I'm pretty with it or whatever, even if I do say so myself.

[Kristiina]

Good points, for sure.

Kristiina, how would and enfj relate to an entp? I mean, I'm not depressed or anything . . . I'm pretty with it or whatever, even if I do say so myself.

Most of the people who influence me in school are ENTps. The person who taught me the A model is ENTp. I know many and I have learned to understand the type pretty well. I have a lot of respect for ENTps. I'll also mention that ENTps used to be the most frequent type of the distant crush for me. Frankly I think I was mistaking Ti and Se-role for my dual. Fascinating type! So enthusiastically full of thoughts and so much potential! I have learned to recognize ENTp body language so well, that it sometimes scares me. I can tell when they're feeling down, I can see when they want me to act more alpha...

There is a down-side. I frequently have misunderstandings with ENTps. It seems I'm awfully different from them. I want structure, they want chaos. I want to know when something will happen and how, they want to leave everything open until the last moment. There is this one ENTp that I have observed quite a bit. At first I decided to become closer with him, but now I'm not sure anymore. When I asked him something a long time ago, he started explaining too much (as if I didn't know anything about it, when I was just asking for a trivial fact that I couldn't look up and I knew he knows it.) and then another time I commented about something else that it's just trivial and he said something like, "How can you NOT know this?" and that totally hurt my feelings because I bet I know many things that he could never figure out. That was yesterday so the emotions are still fresh. I still kinda pout when I see him. I think he might have actually noticed it, but I'm not sure he knows what it's for.

I was talking to an ENTp socionicist once and she was typing me... After a while she got very eagerly happy as if she was dying to tell me something. She asked how I felt talking with her. How I make her feel. I told her honestly that it seems she's uncomfortable. Seems I'm being too energetic again, seems I'm being an energy-vampire, but I just can't tune it down well enough. She's somehow forcefully calm. I see her having high-energy bursts, so I know she's not letting it all out, which translates into her holding herself back. I felt she was using such tactics to balance out my chatter-box high-energy mode. It's almost like when people talk to nervous people, they become extremely calm to project some of that into the other person. ... She kinda started to giggle and said she thinks I'm her dual ISFp. She felt like I was her dual! Almost all ENTps feel awkwardly too calm to me, but I have to learn to stop misinterpreting Si values and EP temperament.

I sometimes feel like me and ENTps are like the different sides of different coins. :wink:

[Blaze]

*edit*

[Elro]

So what to do? I'm getting some great vibes from this guy and I think I want to go out with him, yet I know that for me it might be just another pattern of mine and headed for disaster. Although on Rick's site, his stats say that the second most frequent type of serious/marital relationship is benefactor-beneficiary at 10%, next to dual, at 30%.

Would it help to say that I'm nowhere near as chaotic as I was when I was younger?

But then there's always that search for the dual whom I don't believe I've ever found, not even as a friend.

What is this perpetual obsession with beta? I don't get it.

Then I'm sure there's folks who'd say what they hell are you going to let socionics run your life?!

Meh, even outside of Socionics you might check yourself. If you're worried about being manipulated even as you're just getting into it (and thus would normally be blind to stuff like that), you might be careful... From experience, it can be pretty rough to realize it too late.

[Blaze]

Duh, finally figured it out! It feels like a double dose of Fe because it's too much Fe for me . . . an isfp would provide creative function level of Fe not base level. It's not really a double dose though, he's just being his enfj self which we heard about from Kristiina. Yay!

Like for an entp, an estj doesn't provide "enough" Si since it comes from the creative function, whereas an istp offers just the right amount of Si but no Fe hence semi-dual.

This is all pretty obvious but I thought is was worth mentioning. Tomorrow I'll start a thread then on how to recognize male isfp's. do we have any here?

[FDG]

But are you sure he's ENFj and not ENFp? ENFj males are generally kinda restrained ime? Not restrained in the sense, introverted, but not as showy as it might seem here?

[Blaze]

Pretty sure. He comes across like Jadae. Fe all the way, no Fi. lol

[Kristiina]

My experience with young ENTps hasn't had any real relationship potential. Too much awkwardness from misunderstandings. On a more general note, they want to take it easy in life, but I think people should constantly keep pushing themselves towards improvement. (Si vs Se). This may be somewhat influenced by my age. My age is the time when people should push themselves the most. It might change in a few years.

IMHO, a relationship between ENTp and ENFj will probably be fun and interesting, but I don't think it will last very long. I don't really think it will be happily ever after.

But I'm really glad you liked my posts. It makes me feel very very good.

[Blaze]

Kristiina, you are welcome, you helped me to understand this a lot better, kind of a new breakthrough for me in socionics.

I went out with an enfj for about 3 years from ages 16 - 19. He really was a great guy, but I had to break up with him because of alot of things. The socionics part of it was that I felt he was giving more than I was and that it could never be equal. In retrospect, I felt that I didn't have enough to give him; (2006 version: my Ti could never equal that of an istj, plus I didn't have nearly enough Se). Anyway, I think he was very hurt and it took him awhile to get over it and a friendship could never really develop after that. Plus I was very wild or "chaotic" as you call it, at the time and I could see that this was hurting him and I didn't want to hurt him. It was really one of those times when "it's not you, it's me." And I really meant that!

But I find I always like enfj's a great deal even now. They've just got so much postive energy!

[Ms. Kensington]

I do feel that with IxFps for example that something is lacking from their Fe. Not so much as there's not enough of it but that its somehow "false". So yeah I think it might have something to do with why you feel like it's a double dose or too much.

[ScarlettLux]

Really? I am the opposite Kensington. I feel that with ENFjs & ESFjs, their Fe is waaay too much and "fake". Also gets really annoying sometimes.

With IxFps as myself, I am biased towards having the notion that our Fe is much more balanced and "sincere" (which IS NOT true, btw, just saying my stereotypical opinion of it) Like.. we know when to truly show our real emotions and stuff. And not go overboard.

[Ms. Kensington]

yeah that was kinda my point lux, that the perception will follow the placement. Though i think its interesting you said that even though you think its more sincere you said in the same sentence that its not. you should explain that

[Blaze]

I think Scarlettlux is saying that she values her style of Fe more than base function Fe, that's all. But it's just her values.

Ms. K can you say more about why the isfp level of Fe feels fake to you? What do you mean?

[Ms. Kensington]

I think Scarlettlux is saying that she values her style of Fe more than base function Fe, that's all. But it's just her values.

Ms. K can you say more about why the isfp level of Fe feels fake to you? What do you mean?

yeah that's all i meant too.

but um for me specifically you're looking for Fe as something that is an end goal, not something that you can use to manipulate for your own goal, Si or Ni.

[Blaze]

I think Scarlettlux is saying that she values her style of Fe more than base function Fe, that's all. But it's just her values.

Ms. K can you say more about why the isfp level of Fe feels fake to you? What do you mean?

yeah that's all i meant too.

but um for me specifically you're looking for Fe as something that is an end goal, not something that you can use to manipulate for your own goal, Si or Ni.

oic what you mean. Creative function Fe not enough, or sort of underground or something. Isn't this interesting. Do you think you would be attracted to enfj's with their dominant Fe? Or just esfj's?

things are going a little further with this enfj guy now we are talking and it seems good, just not sure that i want to go rushing into a "relationship" so soon after my divorce. i kind of want to date a bunch of different people which is something i never really did. i was always having a relationship. now that i've been indoctrinated into the socionics mindset, i want to experience what will happen with different types or whatever but mostly have FUN!!hahaha

[ISFPman]

Kristiina as an ENFJ have you had any relationships with ISFPs and if so how were they. I ask because I also am talking to an ENFJ. My experience so far reminds of some things you said. ENFJs are very emotional when something happens to them like problems with her parents or ex-boyfriend but do not seem to express a lot of emotion in typing. And when I ask about her problems she does not want to talk about about. I hate that because I want to know everything about her and her problems. On the phone I can feel her emotions as almost every time I have talked to her she has been crying. And she seems to push me a lot to make decisions which can be good and bad but not the way I am. It makes me feel bad when she has to always be making decisions instead of just living. And she is into personal growth and I am just day to day like you described with ENTPs. That makes me feel uncomfortable. Having nice things seems important to her but not to me. She is concerned about having to many kids and having enough money to support them. And I like a slow pace and in life and she likes living fast and always on the go. I am interested in ENFJs because I want a woman who is affectionate and shows her emotions and is happy and cheerful. So I see some things I want and like but am also concerned about differences. I had wanted a strong feeling woman after only bad experiences in past relationships. I want a woman who talks a lot also.

[Creepy-bg]

I want a woman who talks a lot also.

be carefull what you wish for

[eunice]

I want a woman who talks a lot also.

I don't want a man who talk too much. Period. Some EXFX men really talk alot.

[ISFPman]

Being with a woman who does not talk a lot makes me uncomfortable. I want to know what she is feeling and thinking. I love listening and commenting. I do not like coming up with my own things to say as much. She could never talk enough to me. I get bored when a woman does not talk and I like interaction.

[eunice]

Being with a woman who does not talk a lot makes me uncomfortable. I want to know what she is feeling and thinking. I love listening and commenting. I do not like coming up with my own things to say as much. She could never talk enough to me. I get bored when a woman does not talk and I like interaction.

I get what u meant. I like been with someone who talks more than me, but I also realized that there are some guys who talk so much that they didn't give you an opportunity to share about yourself or even care about your opinions, and all they talk about is themselves or anything or anybody around them.

[ISFPman]

That part would be bad.

[FDG]

I want a woman who talks a lot also.

I don't want a man who talk too much. Period. Some EXFX men really talk alot.

Yes. And more precisely: about a load of nonsense

[Animal]

I want a woman who talks a lot also.

Apparently, most women want someone who listens, so you're in luck.