Female EII faces

[Aster]

I don’t personally bother with physiognomy whatsoever, either, but yes I wouldn’t be surprised if it didn’t have some effect. I agree, too little is known about it to use it!

[Echo]

Ah ok

i guess I read his statements as more tentative than you did. Tho I don’t necessarily blame anyone for perceiving them that way I guess.

Sometimes logical types can present what might seem most logically coherent in a confident way but that doesn’t necessarily make them inimical to entertaining possibilities, granted this is something I projected onto him instinctively and may or may not necessarily manifest in cognition/behavior idk

I think that my perception of his statements is based on a pattern of him making similar statements. He has a tendency to contradict peoples self-typings or make absolute statements about typology, but then when you ask him to explain he either makes false claims about the theory or he ignores the question. To me, that’s very irritating.

[Aster]

VI to me is more about the look in the eyes, the facial expressions, the energy someone is giving off. Vibes. The pattern of these things in people. When they come together in clusters and match someone else’s, that’s when you notice the similarities.

[Echo]

VI to me is more about the look in the eyes, the facial expressions, the energy someone is giving off. Vibes. The pattern of these things in people. When they come together in clusters and match someone else’s, that’s when you notice the similarities.

Yes I use VI more with facial expressions than anything else.

[godslave]

I have a hard time associating luscious lips and big eyes (Angelina Jolie Prototype) to Fi dom for some reason. These attributes sream Fe to me, especially if they come with a certain "attitude". This is just a bias of course, it means nothing.

[Adam Strange]

I have a hard time associating luscious lips and big eyes (Angelina Jolie Prototype) to Fi dom for some reason. These attributes sream Fe to me, especially if they come with a certain "attitude". This is just a bias of course, it means nothing.

FWIW, I type Angelina Jolie as EIE.

[nifl]

Where do things like bone structure come from? Genetics. And what determines our neurological traits? Also genetics. So where do our ‘psychological traits’ likely come from? Bingo: genetics. So is it really that far-fetched that certain genes that determine things like bone structure could be chromosomally linked to genes that determine personality? Not at all.

even if the correlation between facial structures and psychic traits is slight, it has no practical use to identify psychological types over mannerisms or behaviour or even hypothetical brainscans, which partly come from types. anything more is trash from gulenko and other dreamers

the typologically based explanation for the claimed increased roundness (here fatness, not cranial structure) of SEIs faces was given and is more likely due to the following from the theory. that SEI has round face structure has no connection to the theory and no rational justification

[Echo]

even if the correlation between facial structures and psychic traits is slight, it has no practical use to identify psychological types over mannerisms or behaviour or even hypothetical brainscans, which partly come from types. anything more is trash from gulenko and other dreamers

the typologically based explanation for the claimed increased roundness (here fatness, not cranial structure) of SEIs faces was given and is more likely due to the following from the theory. that SEI has round face structure has no connection to the theory and no rational justification

I never claimed that physical traits of the types are based on theory and I also never said that my statement should be used for typing purposes. All I did was make an observation that I personally have noticed a lot of SEIs have rounded faces. I never said this was any kind of typology rule. But in response you said that psychological type and physical traits cannot be connected in any way, unless the physical trait is a result of a person‘s behavior. This is untrue since we have no idea whether the two are connected, so I corrected you.

You have a tendency to present your subjective opinion as objective fact. It’s a trait I’ve noticed is very common in narrow minded people.

[Braingel]

Nifl sucks at typing, end of story. No point in trying to engage him, he is set in his ways with a degree of delusion.. So many 4D Si types appear to completely suck at typing, and by Jung, it actually makes sense, as they base on their own subjective sensory impression, I would put it in my own conceptualization that they cognitively rely on sensory-motor means to type, acquiring a subjective pattern base of how things register concretely in their own self, but whilst it’s concrete, it is relative to their own sensorial processes. Just even saw an lsi from this forum make an idiotic typing in the Fb typology community.

Basing on their motor memory means they compare to store housed sensations and will make memory comparisons a lot, this is very, very, very prominent in Qaz. The issue is that there are an infinite number of reasons a person can remind someone of something, many being unrelated to what socionics and jungian functions symbolize.

I’ve yet to encounter a 4D Si type here that I would consider good at typing, though I’ve not paid attention to all of the 4D Si types and how they type here.. I haven’t paid attention to how Spacious approaches typings yet, for instance. Same with Poptart. My pattern for this is based on most of the other 4D Si types on the forum, and there are some people I type as 4D Si who don’t believe they’re 4D Si.. Aster I have as an iei most models, so no, even though I’ve suggested sei for one model, not talking about her.

[Braingel]

I never claimed that physical traits of the types are based on theory and I also never said that my statement should be used for typing purposes. All I did was make an observation that I personally have noticed a lot of SEIs have rounded faces. I never said this was any kind of typology rule. But in response you said that psychological type and physical traits cannot be connected in any way, unless the physical trait is a result of a person‘s behavior. This is untrue since we have no idea whether the two are connected, so I corrected you.

You have a tendency to present your subjective opinion as objective fact. It’s a trait I’ve noticed is very common in narrow minded people.

This is typical for Si bases, Ni bases and lsi’s, but lsi’s are the most adamant about it, because of higher Se and Ne polr.

But seriously, just ignore the idiot.. Most people on this forum deserve to be ignored, if I’m honest. He has no abstraction, and you’re trying to reason with a person who is set in his ways, and engages a theory that isn’t even set around the theory he bases on, and he doesn’t even interpret Jung accurately if I’m honest, and tries and fit socionics into Jung and so he sort of uses his own definitions, based on his own concrete experience and applying things too literally.

[ebrarthelady]

I type by facial expressions all the time, because......Te. Fast, expedient, but not always 100% accurate.

There are two sub-types of SEI, and they are very different from each other. The SEI-Si tends to have a rounded face, but the SEI-Fe has a thinner face.

Here's an example of a woman who, in my opinion, is an SEI-Fe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CCNswShJRc

And to try to return this thread from its derail, my secretary is EII. I can't show you her picture for ethical reasons, but she looks almost exactly like the drummer in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZUWHfI6EuE. They have different hairstyles, but otherwise the two women could be clones.

Bonus VI: In the Honeycombs video, from VI, I'd type the lead singer SEE, the drummer EII, the guitar player with round glasses ILE, the heavy-set guitar player gay ESE, but the slender guitar player without glasses is a mystery to me. He's an introvert, probably logical, but which type? LII, maybe?


Edit: The drummer could be an ESI-Fi, actually, but she still resembles my EII secretary, whom I'm certain is EII.

Thanks for your observations. The drummer seems EII to me too. ESIs generally have got sharp glances than EIIs, and sharp facial features like outward cheekbones. ESIs have some kind of sharp harmony in their faces, like SEIs have round harmony. But I don't see it in EIIs or ne egos' faces. Even if the face is very beautiful, I feel like there is something disorganized. In terms of harmony, I think, sensory types faces are more organized than intuitives.

[ebrarthelady]

even if the correlation between facial structures and psychic traits is slight, it has no practical use to identify psychological types over mannerisms or behaviour or even hypothetical brainscans, which partly come from types. anything more is trash from gulenko and other dreamers

the typologically based explanation for the claimed increased roundness (here fatness, not cranial structure) of SEIs faces was given and is more likely due to the following from the theory. that SEI has round face structure has no connection to the theory and no rational justification

Dear @nifl
I agree with you about visual identification is not everything. As I said, visual identification researches were done on European/Slavic/Russian people and that makes hard to type with faces. For example my genetics are mixed. I am from Turkiye and there are multiple races in there. So it is not very logical to type people by just looking at their faces and saying "You are XXX"
But it is not arguable that genetics have a big role on people's characters. Think about a baby. When we see his/her behaviour we would immediately say: "Oh, this behaviour is just like mother/father/someone else in the family." But again not everything is genetics. Every life is precious and unique in terms of different experiences. In the end, your character is a combination of what you give, what you take and what what is your reaction to giving/taking. And we need to remind that socionics is just a theory like Jung's theory, or Freud's theory. When I get child education lessons, my teachers said Freud's findings are not totally true. Man, this man was the psychoanalysis's founder! How was he wrong? But yeah he might be wrong. And Carl Jung was also inspired by Freud, then he didn't like Freud's theory and he made new theories. It may have both right parts and wrong parts, this is very normal. That means you are not fully wrong though. Yet we cannot throw off the full hypothesis, because there are some evidences that prove some parts of the theory.
Briefly you should first look at the character and second you should look at the physical appearance.
And I need to say I have a friend who is SLI (she doesn't know typology but when I told her she agreed she is a SLI) and she also doesn't believe in face theory. I told her someone has a rough face and he must be dominant. She said this is not true and I needed to know him first. Well, my SEI friends also seem like don't make inference about people's faces. Like, they can understand there are some differences but they don't care people's faces too much. They are more likely to catch the emotional changes in a face (laughing, smiling, crying) And oppositely, my se ego friends always look at people's faces and prejudge them. I don't know the reason, and this is just my observation.

[Muira]

Nifl sucks at typing, end of story. No point in trying to engage him, he is set in his ways with a degree of delusion.. So many 4D Si types appear to completely suck at typing, and by Jung, it actually makes sense, as they base on their own subjective sensory impression, I would put it in my own conceptualization that they cognitively rely on sensory-motor means to type, acquiring a subjective pattern base of how things register concretely in their own self, but whilst it’s concrete, it is relative to their own sensorial processes. Just even saw an lsi from this forum make an idiotic typing in the Fb typology community.

Basing on their motor memory means they compare to store housed sensations and will make memory comparisons a lot, this is very, very, very prominent in Qaz. The issue is that there are an infinite number of reasons a person can remind someone of something, many being unrelated to what socionics and jungian functions symbolize.

I’ve yet to encounter a 4D Si type here that I would consider good at typing, though I’ve not paid attention to all of the 4D Si types and how they type here.. I haven’t paid attention to how Spacious approaches typings yet, for instance. Same with Poptart. My pattern for this is based on most of the other 4D Si types on the forum, and there are some people I type as 4D Si who don’t believe they’re 4D Si.. Aster I have as an iei most models, so no, even though I’ve suggested sei for one model, not talking about her.

Nifl might as well be sol himself

[Aster]

Nifl is the ghost of Sol. his undead spirit haunts this place.



maybe if he accepts his true type he will finally be at peace!

[UFOAttack]

types can be seen in ppl's expressions, but facial features have no relation to types
to evaluate whether you may be EII, SEI etc. by your mannerisms and facial expressions a decent quality video is needed. you can make a typing thread with a vid if opinions about your type interest you


woman is EII

This gives me anxiety. Like they are trying too hard to be happy and positive. The image of a happy and glamorous social media life. And I feel worried for them. Remember Gabby Petito? They had similar energy. I wonder what kind of neurotic behaviors go on off the camera. I really cherish the youtubers or Twitch people that can touch on dark or not glamorous aspects of their lives and come off more genuine. Most of them don't have big channels or sometimes get destroyed by all the social media warring that goes on. But it's a nice reminder that you don't have to be like that to succeed. I wonder if life was socially simpler before the entertainment industry made everything about image and content creation.

[Northstar]

This gives me anxiety. Like they are trying too hard to be happy and positive. The image of a happy and glamorous social media life. And I feel worried for them. Remember Gabby Petito? They had similar energy. I wonder what kind of neurotic behaviors go on off the camera. I really cherish the youtubers or Twitch people that can touch on dark or not glamorous aspects of their lives and come off more genuine. Most of them don't have big channels or sometimes get destroyed by all the social media warring that goes on. But it's a nice reminder that you don't have to be like that to succeed. I wonder if life was socially simpler before the entertainment industry made everything about image and content creation.

Yeah these kind of videos are creepy. Gabby Petito was most likely EII (and the bf was a creep SLI).

[Echo]

Yeah these kind of videos are creepy. Gabby Petito was most likely EII (and the bf was a creep SLI).

I disagree with EII just based on VI. She looked too physically healthy.

[Braingel]

Speak of a real extrovert, Gabby Petito was one. Why can’t people here recognize a real extrovert from an introvert..

I think Gabby was probably an ESE https://youtu.be/kTWrlRV_g1A?si=P7VOROZTQQ06mzuT I am closer to being an EII than of her

Gabby was very expressive and she was always focused on things outside of herself, things happening within the external world, this is the defining feature of extroversion, not the expressiveness, but the ladder. Expression is for not being eii in models outside of scs where scs doesn’t have expression itself to any type, how and why determines the ego placement of the Fe

[Northstar]

I disagree with EII just based on VI. She looked too physically healthy.

I don't agree with that VI cue. My little sister is definitely an EII and looks healthy. Looking healthy has more to do with genetics than anything else, of course intuitives especially can forget to drink enough, sleep too little etc. but those signs are pretty subtle and it would've been enough to have someone in her life that reminds to hydrate and sleep.

[Braingel]

Gabby was ESE with an alt of IEE (positivist fits more, she was probably just a 7), extrovert is even obvious from visual cues, but what makes it the case further for me is how focused she was externally.

Videos of her

https://www.instagram.com/gabspetito...phRp4Fn/?hl=en

https://www.instagram.com/gabspetito...2gKFfAC/?hl=en

[Echo]

I don't agree with that VI cue. My little sister is definitely an EII and looks healthy. Looking healthy has more to do with genetics than anything else, of course intuitives especially can forget to drink enough, sleep too little etc. but those signs are pretty subtle and it would've been enough to have someone in her life that reminds to hydrate and sleep.

I don't know your sister, all I can say is that every EII/LII I’ve ever known had a sort of sickly look to them even when they were healthy. We don’t get very much sunlight, and that girl was glowing. The only way to look like that is to live a very outdoorsy active lifestyle and that doesn’t sound very EII to me.

I have pretty good genetics and I inherited a lot of traits from my mother (ESI). I have the same body frame and skin tone and everything- but if you look at pictures of her when she was young, she looked active, and even though her skin was also very pale it looked glowing and healthy. whereas my sister always jokes that all you have to do is shave my head and I could pass for a cancer patient. So genetics is only part of it. (by the way, I have always looked a little malnourished and a little washed out even when I was a teen and my mother was reminding me around the clock to go outside and drink water. trust me having someone there telling you to eat and drink and sleep isn’t enough).

[godslave]

I don't know your sister, all I can say is that every EII/LII I’ve ever known had a sort of sickly look to them even when they were healthy. We don’t get very much sunlight, and that girl was glowing. The only way to look like that is to live a very outdoorsy active lifestyle and that doesn’t sound very EII to me.

I have pretty good genetics and I inherited a lot of traits from my mother (ESI).I have the same body frame and skin tone and everything- but if you look at pictures of her when she was young, she looked active, and even though her skin was also very pale it looked glowing and healthy. whereas my sister always jokes that all you have to do is shave my head and I could pass for a cancer patient. So genetics is only part of it. (by the way, I have always looked a little malnourished and a little washed out even when I was a teen and my mother was reminding me around the clock to go outside and drink water. trust me having someone there telling you to eat and drink and sleep isn’t enough).

[Northstar]

I just don't think how much skin tan you get by being outside in the sunlight is very type related at all.

[Echo]

I just don't think how much skin tan you get by being outside in the sunlight is very type related at all.

well, it’s related to a person‘s interests. People who do active outdoorsy things like surfing, swimming and hiking are more likely to be sensors. If I was asked to think of a 20yr old middle class female American EII’s hobbies, I’d think of journaling, painting, music, gaming, etc.

I’m not saying that an EII can’t do active outdoor things. I’m just saying that it doesn’t strike me as the sort of thing that they would do with enough regularity to get a healthy sunkissed glow and toned body like she had.

This does not look like a woman with 2DSi and 1DSe:

[Braingel]

Depends on where you live too (some places are just naturally exposed in sun like Hawaii or the desert at certain year times where it isn’t overly hot to go out), but I agree tanning is more common for active people. I am the palest person in my family because I sit around all day.. I was forced to be active by them as a little girl and was tanned.

Some people are also naturally just tan, my family is half Turkish and my sister has dark olive skin naturally.

Anyhow, Gabby as an eii is dumb, but I don’t generally agree with North Star’s typings or even his own self-typing outside of G. (I have him as an lsi). DCNH 8/10 times just rationalizes mistypes.. He is an “introverted sle” in G, because he is actually an intotvert; everything is based on Northstar’s subjective interpretation, never describing like a perceiving extrovert, of matters in external reality.. Kill4me is one of the only real SLE’s on this forum. That man describes what is able to see in external reality. Most people on this forum don’t even know what an introvert or extrovert is though, from a basic jungian and also big 5 level.

I have not even studied. much Jung, but introvert= subjective focus and extroverts there deal with objective reality.. The basic hallmark of a Jungian extrovert is that they are living in and able to perceive things in external reality and are far more objective and active. Not that Jung has to go 100% into socionics, because socionics is also information metabolism and Freudian ego block, but that is a pretty important part of Jung, and it is also apt of Aushura's socioncis model still, just with different wording..

[Echo]

Depends on where you live too (some places are just naturally exposed in sun like Hawaii or the desert at certain year times where it isn’t overly hot to go out), but I agree tanning is more common for active people. I am the palest person in my family because I sit around all day.. I was forced to be active by them as a little girl and was tanned.

Some people are also naturally just tan, my family is half Turkish and my sister has dark olive skin naturally.

in this case, I would say it’s not even so much about the tan. It’s more about the fact that she looks healthy and active. But I would say that a blonde girl probably isn’t gonna be naturally tan so it has to be from going outdoors a lot. And Yeah it definitely all depends on context but then again a good friend of mine is an ethnically Indian EII and she has the same dark circles under her eyes and washed out looking skin that I have (even though her skin is darker in tone than mine). maybe it’s cause we forget to eat enough and lack nutrients or maybe it’s the lack of vitamin D. I don’t know, but you can tell neither of us are sensors.

Edit:
also, I’m not sure if this is just true for me or not or if it’s just because I’m very pale, but I’ve noticed it with a lot of other 1D Se types- my legs almost always have at least one or two bruises. It’s because I’m always bumping into things or tripping. I’m very clumsy.

[Braingel]

well, it’s related to a person‘s interests. People who do active outdoorsy things like surfing, swimming and hiking are more likely to be sensors. If I was asked to think of a 20yr old middle class female American EII’s hobbies, I’d think of journaling, painting, music, gaming, etc.

I’m not saying that an EII can’t do active outdoor things. I’m just saying that it doesn’t strike me as the sort of thing that they would do with enough regularity to get a healthy sunkissed glow and toned body like she had.

This does not look like a woman with 2DSi and 1DSe:

More than how she looks, she is too expressive to be an EII in most models where Fe strong= expressions and ignored is subdued expression.. But more importantly, she is always averting outside of herself, it is never anything internal which there is an extrovert in its most basic Jungian form. More than how she looks, this is what makes her truly an extrovert.

[Braingel]

in this case, I would say it’s not even so much about the tan. It’s more about the fact that she looks healthy and active. But I would say that a blonde girl probably isn’t gonna be naturally tan so it has to be from going outdoors a lot. And Yeah it definitely all depends on context but then again a good friend of mine is an ethnically Indian EII and she has the same dark circles under her eyes and washed out looking skin that I have (even though her skin is darker in tone than mine). maybe it’s cause we forget to eat enough and lack nutrients or maybe it’s the lack of vitamin D. I don’t know, but you can tell neither of us are sensors.

My sister retains a tan even when she does not go in the sun, but yes, I do believe a lack of vitamin D is more typical for introverts, and more intuitive and also I wrote about it for 4, 5 and 954 9 core enneagram types.. Pretty sure Gabby is/was your dual. I do not want put it to type, but how she was killed also is Ni 1D ish and ignored Fi..

I do not like Model G very much (especially dcnh), but believe some of it is a bit valid.. Type shift is one of the more interesting aspects of it to me, and what is interesting is ESE has a type shift into EII. Maybe it is what North sees, but probably not, because he has a general pattern of making mistypes that do not even bear relation to type shifts.

[Northstar]

This discussion is now too dumb for me to continue participating in.

[Echo]

This discussion is now too dumb for me to continue participating in.

Why? It's just VI stuff.

[Braingel]

Why? It's just VI stuff.

better not to give him ammo.. I was tempted (to share Jung's real intro and extro, which is still apart of Aushura's socionics), but it is best not

[nifl]

@ebrarthelady

As I said, visual identification researches were done on European/Slavic/Russian people and that makes hard to type with faces.

Racially, the majority of Turkey are close to Europeans, so there should not be a bigger problem with interpreting facial expressions of them for Europeans. With practice it's not a big problem for any ''race'', anyways.

But it is not arguable that genetics have a big role on people's characters. Think about a baby. When we see his/her behaviour we would immediately say: "Oh, this behaviour is just like mother/father/someone else in the family."

Even if parents, facial features had some slight connection with the type, it's useless in practice for now. What is useful for typing is what is related to behaviour, as psychological types are first and foremost a phenomenon of the mind.

Briefly you should first look at the character and second you should look at the physical appearance.

Physical appearance is only relevant insofar it says something about the character. And the physical appearance is rarely decisive in a typological evaluation beyond more extreme cases (like extreme underweight, tattoo covered), even if incompetent typers may type by tanned skin.

I told her someone has a rough face and he must be dominant.

You seem to be mixing impressions and physical appearance. To have a ''rough'' face is significantly connected with the character you perceive, not just the shape of the chin etc. For this typology, it's mainly connected with Se types, especially extraverted and thinking ones. (and since ''rough'' is closer to a negative evaluation, it's more how Si valued types may see Se types). So, SLE give this ''dominant'' impression because of what happens in their mind and in their behaviour, not because of their bones.

And oppositely, my se ego friends always look at people's faces and prejudge them.

S types are prone to shallow and thus often less accurate initial evaluations of situations and things. With people's characters it's especially Se types, as it's Ne related.

[Echo]

@ebrarthelady

Racially, the majority of Turkey are close to Europeans, so there should not be a bigger problem with interpreting facial expressions of them for Europeans. With practice it's not a big problem for any ''race'', anyways.

…leave it to nifl to mansplain Turkiye to a Turkish person.

[Echo]

Physical appearance is only relevant insofar it says something about the character. And the physical appearance is rarely decisive in a typological evaluation beyond more extreme cases (like extreme underweight, tattoo covered), even if incompetent typers may type by tanned skin.

if you actually read my post, you would see that the reason why I said the woman was a sensor based on her tan was because it implied that she spent a lot of time outdoors doing sports (so bc of behavioural reasons)

[nifl]

Gabby Petito - maybe ILE/SLE

if you actually read my post, you would see that the reason why I said the woman was a sensor based on her tan was because it implied that she spent a lot of time outdoors doing sports (so bc of behavioural reasons)

to consider spending enough in the sun to get a tan or to be healthy a significant argument against intuition shows your need for improvement of understanding of types in practice.
types are a significant factor in ppl's behaviour, but ''to look healthy'' is hardly so rare or extreme to be a significant data point in typing. and as it relates to Si most of all, it should be more common for Ne than Ni types.

…leave it to nifl to mansplain Turkiye to a Turkish person.

leave it to Echo to react so stupidly to normal exchange of information and opinions

[Echo]

Gabby Petito - maybe ILE/SLE


to consider spending enough in the sun to get a tan or to be healthy a significant argument against intuition shows your need for improvement of understanding of types in practice.
types are a significant factor in ppl's behaviour, but ''to look healthy'' is hardly so rare or extreme to be a significant data point in typing. and as it relates to Si most of all, it should be more common for Ne than Ni types.


leave it to Echo to react so stupidly to normal exchange of information and opinions

Seriously your typings are so bad they’re actually comical.