If Se is force and beauty, then am I missing out on this part of life?

[youfloweryourfeast]

I feel like I have unknowingly missed out on a lot of opportunities-and could've been more successful, if I had just used a little bit of force. I mean now when I look back on some of these situations, whether it's a job or with other people, I think some of my decisions were stupid. It was either out of being afraid to actually use Se before or believing I just was just not capable of it?

Then, when I started to be around a lot of Se types I realized that trying it is not such a big deal. I mean maybe sometimes it was a little bit stressful for me to be around them, but I did kinda notice that sometimes to get by in life, you need to be a little bit forceful, or yell at someone.

Last year, when I was leaving my mothers home for the summertime, we got into a big fight where she was just kinda saying a lot of things at once. She then asked me if I wanted to go out to dinner before I planned to leave and I should've just said NO-aha, I need to leave right now. Instead I went with her, unknowingly agreeing, until later I was upset and felt was mad that I had gone with her.

Agreeing with her and not getting mad at her instead caused me to not be able to grab all my belongings, so in the end all I was left with, was a small suitcase with barely any of my belongings and a penny to spare.

So, in some ways are EIIs often gonna miss out on this aspect of life? I've never been able to change others or create anything nice, or beautiful really. Is it bound to always be this way sorta?

[RevanLugia]

The real world is very terrifying and scary. I doubt confronting it head on would remove pain and destruction.

I just retreat to fantasy, writing, reflecting, creating, unleashing. I think a focus on pure mind is the most liberating and magical.

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

I've had the same issues even if not Se PoLR of if i made myself less Se PoLR. i have hurt people before by using too much force as well. not to mention it can be tiring. but then u can make it a habit and start doing it automatically and u start pushing ppl away or u start teaching them to behave forceful extra as well. they also randomly shame and harass and push u around but u dont do the saame to them and they take it for granted, force ut o overexplain overcomplicated stuff. drain u and see that ur weak and unresponsive to them so they start hurting u and trying to control u even more, waht can i sy beyond animal behavior. and u try to make them think so much can be concering if u make them feel weak and t hey start being doormatish to others then cuz they dont see where ur aggression is coming from and dont plan their life and energy expenditure around complicated issues u or others may have. i thinkt hats pluto (power/control and transformation) in ur 12ht house of prisons/hospitals, self dissolutilon, hidden enemies, the collective unconscious (ppl being manipulated or manipulating, their unconscious materials and flaws hurting u and u having to be nice to them and they taking it for granted, therefore they act as enemies but it in a hidden way, then they dont believe u)

[Distance]

That's were a significant other comes to the rescue.

We are half (halved) people, really.

You need someone to care for your undeveloped sides.

[youfloweryourfeast]

I wouldn't even say I come off as unassertive though as I can change my demeanor if I'm upset. It's more in my actions or just deciding to pick the easy way out instead. Maybe Se valuing types would see that as frivolous.

I often walk into a room and look stressed, and people say I seem distant or mean. So, I don't seem lacking will in that sense.

I am usually not really trying to impact anything really, and on the outside; I seem almost like glass just kinda just there and see through. I wonder if that's why people try to use force on me.

In essence, apart of some of my issues are bad Ti and Se which I know that I suck at those (as I do think I am either EII or IEE).

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

what i've felt like is u need to kinda speak to people as if ur some kinda authority, but without being too abusive. like u have to show that u see their point of view but still be assertive and disagree with them, and not be emotionally concerned with validaiton or something from their side. cuz it can make u look weak. like they dont listen to WHAT u say but just bc u carry as if ur someone with authoriy they can start respecting u, but idk if thats not an insane thing to do. and dont do it as if u are an ideal person ciz they can start idealizing u and expect too mcuh and start pushing u around and think that u always have to make the good decisions for them. i mean just taking some form of authority in a way makes u responsible for their reactions feelings thoughts and wahtever. like ur just a person u dont have fucking respon siblity for their own mental and other flaws or smth. and waht if u mess up and they confront u? thats why u say "im not some perfect person nor do i pretend to know everything i said what i thought" and again not in a victimy way. ppl just seem to act like animals. if ur victimy, they start thinking u deserve to be abused bc why wouyld u be afraid if u didnt? but they dont take the standpoint that we are all humans and make mistakes, but not all of us are conscious or caring of that fact thus they abuse others cuz they themselves think "heh i was right ur a pussy loser piece of shit u deserve this" which is super contextual awareness. like they only see one mistake u did compared to them so they treat u like they have to abuse and kill u or ostracize u which is similar with the conseuqneces it brings. Se people dont talk to communicate, they use words to abuse, control, manipulate, exert force authority, make impressions and they do the same with physical threats and intimidation and whe nu talk too much or its complicated, it doesnt fit their preconceptions? u must be lying lol. so u cant talk to talk u have to talk with force and act nonchalant, and almost walk with death if u have heard about that.

ppl talk about it a lot like living as if ur already dead or with awareness that u might die whcih can give some sort of confrontation fearlessness and bravery in u. but i wonder if this in some way can make S types hyperafraid and vigilant of details that dont matter, thus not leaving space or letting thmeslves to rest and think about more important things, and overreact to minor situations that wont actually lead to death, just bc they feel as if they would bc their intuition is bad. ofc sometimes the intuitive types are wrong and the S types are right. but bc of that there's an association with pushing boundaries and exploring the world with intuition. u need to know how things work to have intuition about them and u do that by pushing boundaries right, but u do it in a calculated sensitive aware way so u try to avoid going in the wrong direciton. well in a way this can make N types waste time and resouces cuz they do too much side stuff that may yield very beneficial information but sometimes can end up just not what takes u to the place u want to go and then u wonder if ur supposed to take a rsik that seems like can really hurt or maim or kill u and u dont know if it will or not and if its wroth it or not or if ur thinking too qiuckly. and N types hunter gatherer genes or mindset can mean oversecreting hormones when it comes to social ostracization thus causing extra anxiety pain and stuff that lasts longer and is hardrer to recover from. cuz if a bunch of ppl try to intimidate and harass u and dont believe u they can basically tell u "we dont care about ur situation" when u can die from this or get brain damage making u sutpid and stuck only able to obey commands and routines and then when things dont go to plan u have to lie and manipulate isnt that waht sensors do. they dont have the intuition awareness of what happens so they ersort to manipulation, abuse, seeking authority positions to blame the weaker person or minority groups, or to appear normal to gain authority and status thus blame the crazy weirdo for when stuff doesnt go as planned and beleive that they have somehow earned smth jsut bc they followed the rules and submitted to the most abuse and powerful authority figures.

u said pick the quick easy way out. i mean thats hwat i mean by die. if u pick the hard way u confront them but u get tired. then u get tired too much bc ur dealing with too many shitty ppl, u dont have energy for ur own things. and u have to confrton them kinda quick and not explain urself too much/in a weird way. u have to use accurate quick words and decisions, so they dont get confused and start blaming u thus making u more tired and aggressive. but if u chosoe to be hostile towards others off the bat and telling them stuff how it is, without lying, ur kinda giving them power to manipulate u, cuz if u say the truth, and they use it to hurt u God may punish them, but if u dont believe in God, u can think that time will pass and they may use it to turn it on u, and if u lie or just say partial information, they can start thinking ur full of shit (as if they arent) so u have to make it make sense and be inarguable with and make it out like its kinda their fault so that they are the ones who have to think about you and your problems and drain their energy for you bc they wanna be confrontaitonal and violent, but also bible says to be wise. well my point here is if u choose the quick way they start abusnig u, if u chose the conforntational way it can also turn abusive, and u only may be able to confront them after ur already so weak and tired after pushing urself to do the things they forced on u to prove that u actually did them, cuz if u trry to anticipate them and they dont believe ua bout the damage. u have to make it make sense in ur explanation. and if u feel good and ur not tired yet, but ur anticipating it, u still have to be mean and confrontational, cuz they think "oh ur just spoiled and lazy".

[youfloweryourfeast]

It's interesting because most of my life I never really was around a great deal of force or more pushy people. I have been now and most of my life in usually pretty calm places or situations. You could say it's a privilege besides I suppose witnessing my parents fight sometimes, but that's kinda normal for a child. It was only last year I got put into a very demanding and forceful environment, so it kinda shifted my perception on human nature and the way others behave.

Apart of me though wonders maybe I was meant to be there, but at the same time not. I guess you can never know. Either way when I look back on my life before that, I would say I never really tried to demand anything from other people or push back at them. I realized what if I never got put into that environment and continuing living on that way. It's like, you can hate someone for the way they go about things, but at the same time understand something about it, and why they do it.

So are EIIs suppose to hate Se? In some ways I guess so, but in other ways no.

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

idk if its a Se issue or a human tendency to abuse power whatefver iti s. they figured they can get things by using oto much force and not tihnk about it much so they kept doing it, and trying to go the opposite way causes pain and suffering. trying to please everyone and be the best person in any kind of situation, that sounds like a superhero, not a normal person. but by please i also mean not abuse. not being a people pleaser can sometimes mean being a people abuser too.

[Distance]

In Amish communities here in US, when they buy a house they remove the electric from it and thus move away from technology.

Imagine the head of the house manifested in all types of the 16, and life here is of the practical nature like making the physical environment work and the maintenance. E.g., Farming, archaic lighting, blacksmithing, etc.

It would be something that is adapted into from everyone on the type spectrum, and if Se PoLR you would find a way to make Se work for you, maybe by influencing thru persuasion or manipulation if the chips were down.

When survival is at stake we rise to meet the challenges. In time you develop and invent something that works for you and as a go to.

When our survival is at stake, the unconscious is forced to come up with something out of the ordinary to grease the squeaky wheel.

Something always works, and never in a lurch for long.

[nifl]

you're seemingly IEI, which your messy writing style indicates, and you are not confrontative or overactive and your last pic looked NF. non-valued and weak functions are ignored more. EII people i know are too smart with people to just make or admire direct demands. and they don't shout, as they don't have Fe valued or even extraversion. they prefer to understand what people want, what motivates them, to be understanding and mild to get their way.

''force'' is anything which has a degree of influence on something. Se is objective perception and manipulation of physical reality, which includes physical force, like pushing, grabbing etc. as Se types have weak non-valued Ne, they tend to be primitively direct in their demands, ''just do it''. especially extraverts and especially without people-oriented Fi.

shouting is more of an emotional force, so should be Fe. beauty in connection with S is more Si, as it's the subjective evaluation of sensory impressions

[Braingel]

I feel like I have unknowingly missed out on a lot of opportunities-and could've been more successful, if I had just used a little bit of force. I mean now when I look back on some of these situations, whether it's a job or with other people, I think some of my decisions were stupid. It was either out of being afraid to actually use Se before or believing I just was just not capable of it?

Then, when I started to be around a lot of Se types I realized that trying it is not such a big deal. I mean maybe sometimes it was a little bit stressful for me to be around them, but I did kinda notice that sometimes to get by in life, you need to be a little bit forceful, or yell at someone.

Last year, when I was leaving my mothers home for the summertime, we got into a big fight where she kept using a lot of force on me. She then asked me if I wanted to go out to dinner before I planned to leave and I should've just said NO-aha, I need to leave right now. Instead I went with her, unknowingly agreeing, until later I was upset and felt was mad that I had gone with her.

Agreeing with her and not getting mad at her instead caused me to not be able to grab all my belongings, so in the end all I was left with, was a small suitcase with barely any of my belongings and a penny to spare.

So, in some ways are EIIs often gonna miss out on this aspect of life? I've never been able to change others or create anything nice, or beautiful really. Is it bound to always be this way sorta?

In both Jung and Aushura, Se is primarily about aesthetic noticing, it is noticing all the details of the surface object and how to physically manipulate this, the inherent focus goes outward to the object, concerning how it looks and appears. Because the focus is external and on immediate reality, it lends itself to exploration of, and especially as an EP temperament. The volition probably came from the having explore and travel to have new sensory stimulations within the external environment. Se isn’t what most people think it is, and newer socionics watering it to volition and excluding aesthetics completely has missed the essence of Se.

[youfloweryourfeast]

I dont know really what the point of my thread was but sometimes I really wish I wasn't Delta, because it does suck in a lot of ways. It's rather isolating, depressing, and nothing good much in a lot of ways. I mean I do think I am sadly so idrk I know I do have some issues myself that are difficult to deal with it. Sometimes the pain/health became so bad, but I keep telling myself to not give up or that's what I try to do anyway. I have anger and health issues I have trouble controlling.

[nifl]

I dont know really what the point of my thread was but sometimes I really wish I wasn't Delta, because it does suck in a lot of ways. It's rather isolating, depressing, and nothing good much in a lot of ways. I mean I do think I am sadly so idrk I know I do have some issues myself that are difficult to deal with it. Sometimes the pain/health became so bad, but I keep telling myself to not give up or that's what I try to do anyway.
I know I am in a somewhat dark place in my life, getting out of a bad situation and like I have anger and health issues I have trouble controlling.

The correlation with types may be that trying to emulate and meet the values of the opposite quadra is tiring and undermines pleasant and meaningful activity, and thus a factor in depressive states of mind. This seems to be the case, as you are probably IEI. Therefore, you also have more negative associations with the description of delta than expected for EII.

I have long term relationships with Betans. My closest family is mainly from this quadra - mom, dad, older brother. The more you feel that what you want conflicts with what your loved ones want for you, the harder it is to suppress your natural inclinations in terms of functional values. I eventually had to choose between ILI and SLI, and the choice wasn't clear without intertypes - partly because mirroring my mother's Ni type growing up made this function more integral to me. Still, it was clear that Ne types were the ones that matched who I really was inside (at one point my group of friends at school consisted of ILE, EII, IEE).


Maybe you're in a similar situation where people you've been attached to since childhood (like your mother) are from the opposite quadra.

Try to forget about EII and delta and identify the types of people you were most comfortable with and those who were most uncomfortable for you. Read type descriptions and intertypes in Jung, Filatova, not nonsense on the forum about subtypes or cognitive styles. That is the way to the truth about your type. And to find people who fit your inner personality better and will make you happier.

[youfloweryourfeast]

Idk. I do think i have a bit of mental illness and am just bad with everything like writing, reading, and cleaning. I wish I had hobbies I enjoyed but every time I try to do hobbies now I give up quickly. Tbh mostly I just stare at my computer a lot which is maybe due to PTSD that should start to get better in a year. I know apart of it is due to weak Ti and Ni (Se too) but I do speak to my therapist as she tries to help me find motivation I guess.

I think that having weak Ti, Ni, and Se esp which would be similar IEEs too, probably is just the worst to have.

[necrosebud]

Online environments are very beta and any type no matter what I think has to find a way to adapt and EII is one of the least harmonious types I feel like or can be, with the type of nonsense that is the online world. But people who are struggling irl end up being online for a reason. Mental illness or something doesn’t negate your core type and you know yourself better than random ppl online.

[Exodus]

I feel like I have unknowingly missed out on a lot of opportunities-and could've been more successful, if I had just used a little bit of force. I mean now when I look back on some of these situations, whether it's a job or with other people, I think some of my decisions were stupid. It was either out of being afraid to actually use Se before or believing I just was just not capable of it?

Then, when I started to be around a lot of Se types I realized that trying it is not such a big deal. I mean maybe sometimes it was a little bit stressful for me to be around them, but I did kinda notice that sometimes to get by in life, you need to be a little bit forceful, or yell at someone.

Last year, when I was leaving my mothers home for the summertime, we got into a big fight where she was just kinda saying a lot of things at once. She then asked me if I wanted to go out to dinner before I planned to leave and I should've just said NO-aha, I need to leave right now. Instead I went with her, unknowingly agreeing, until later I was upset and felt was mad that I had gone with her.

Agreeing with her and not getting mad at her instead caused me to not be able to grab all my belongings, so in the end all I was left with, was a small suitcase with barely any of my belongings and a penny to spare.

So, in some ways are EIIs often gonna miss out on this aspect of life? I've never been able to change others or create anything nice, or beautiful really. Is it bound to always be this way sorta?

You can train this. Notice the types of situations where you will end up regretting not saying no and feel resentful later, then try to do the opposite of what you would normally do. This is a general approach to self-development but it does require getting out of your comfort zone (for any type).

[youfloweryourfeast]

Eh, I guess I fixate on bad memories too much like I can't do much beside that if I often alone at home. I remember when there was a bug on the ceiling and then the teacher wanted to kill it, and it ended up staying there. Along with another time I'd sit in the very back of class because I didn't really want to be there anymore, but this boy who sat on a purple sofa chair also I remember telling him there was bug on him to hit it off.

The time I asked if I could go home early one time I remember there was a boy chasing me trying to pop my balloon last year before graduating. Often, I was crying in the bathroom but I wasn't allowed to leave. I guess I just keep relieving these memories too much.

I can't see qe well out my right eye anymore very well so I need other sutff I know would be healthier swimming or sun it just hard to do anymore. So maybe will go on medication at this point since I really don't know.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

My advice will probably seem useless to u cuz we're in opposing quadras, but I'm going to give it to you anyway.

In those situations u just have to find the right family that taps into your Fi that inspires you into action yourself. Like when Buffy said that line to Willow at the end of season 7 and got her to empower all the other Potential Slayers.

It will probably always feel hard or impossible to do that completely yourself, because what you are describing is like kind of the opposite of Trump. I think also if you are a very kind and moral person, you are afraid to use force because being kind and moral is like the opposite of force in a campy way, is it not? It's like saying something nice and shy/sweet to somebody vs being a Dahmer and creepily cutting their body with force. Of course many people pretend to be moral and kind when they are really much forceful but I sense u are genuine with it, that's why are you having such trouble turning it on and off when need be (and its ur PoLR)

And yes, the real world is obviously rigged where the most forceful asshole that doesn't care who he hurts or backstabs can easily get ahead in life. And nobody can stop this person because society is very competitive, capitlaist and cut-throat etc. I think we all are kinda forced to adapt some of that, or as Teal Swan ( LOL ) would say - a 'homioepathic dose' of that attitude so we don't become total homeless losers and we can at least function somewhat.

I wouldn't say Se is beauty, not at all. I would say it's the destruction of beauty in way that can be powerful and effective and hot. Like in porn people like the pretty person being destroyed sexually. Even though it's a bit sadistic and amoral, it's the satanic urge in everybody or something. /shrug. Or it's bulldozing the competition and winning all the money and prizes yourself while everybody else in the world is a gloomy loser that suffers and is pain. Ni is the beautiful flower, but it needs the force of water and sun to not completely wilter and die.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I need to go but just think of how to be forceful without losing your morality or ethics maybe, or maybe u have to make them a bit more flexible. Like cops aren't that well liked because they tend to be stupid and take things hyperliterally at times but in an idealized sense, people want cops around as at their best they use force to stop amoral people from eating babies. Even though realistically they can't do this well often or catch the guy 80 years after they should have, but then arrogantly pat themselves on the back that they did something really moral but I mean, in principal- using force for good is the hero's way. U need to go on ur special mission quest where you find your ultimate weapon- LSE'S GAVEL that gives u ur Se that u need.

I'll let RaptorWizard write that one.

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

Se has to do with physical impression that can be aesthetic, which includes world record lifting or sprinting. expression of force. those things you find pretty, but can also be useful. its cool to be able to lift a lot, but it can also be useful. also having lots of kids. impressive kids. lots of friends. impressive friends. being able to pick up or entertain any girl/guy. being good at sex. having cool energy, haricut. using words or sentences in cool and entertaining way (rap?) but also slang. this can include novetly. going to exotic places, picking up exotic people, rich people, hot people, wise people, some that stand out an d are easily impressive. those things become status symbols. so if you are instead weird and hard to understand, or dont align with the partular Se ego's values or thoughts or whatever, they can see them as inferior and worthless or embarassing. But of course sticking out for the underdog as they perceive can be seen as impressive or cool and valuable too. because of this differentiation and separation of value of whats impressive, they can be tribalistic. and so people who are complicated or not immediately impressive in a valuable way, can be considered nerds and losers. if you dont talk in a cool way, if you are sick, if you are messy or have bad aesthetics, granted ofc u can be aesthetically messy or whatever. if you are weak, if you are emotional and cry, or if you dont cry and arent emotional therefore ur unexpressive and boring and stuck up or whatever. or try to control when you cry or when you express what because they thought something. so you can have superficial shallow people who only look through their shortsighted biased interpreation of whats present in the immediate environment and dont try to look into you or read you bc thats for nerds. but they value Ni so they want to have a victim who becomes a vessel for their insecurities, either by abusing them or by fucking them in a relationship and having therapy or spiritual sessions with them, so they can express their repressed insecurities and depth to some weak unappealing low status loser.

justin bieber would be considered more generic than michael jackson. dancing and singing can be impressive expressive force thats why so many discos are stereotypically full of Se whores and fuqbois. michael jackson is more unique SEI with Si, while justin bieber SEE is stereotypically attracting many girls giving him a more generic vibe, even if both are famous and iconic.

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

thats also why u get the ideas like the cool jock with the cheerleader sadistically bullying and harassing the nerd or nations or tribes conquering and raping others and feeling like this is cool or superior. feel good, get muscles, get money, get resources, get land, get horses, get cars (art), get many women, get expensive shoes (art) pots (art) clothes and suits, cool outfits (art) earrings (art), cool phone (art(ificial)), food (culinary art, taste aesthetic), cool music (art), like someone thought hes the most imporatnt person in the world and only his carnality matters. thats why also some people are called "coons" cuz they see sometihng shiny (aesthetic, rich, useful, status) and steal it.

[youfloweryourfeast]

AtopNewton, I mean maybe you have had the luxury of not having to confront it. I think that I know the very dark parts of life because I have experienced just about all of them. I think seeing others in pain or being in pain is not going to create a healthy brain always, but to me it seems I was meant to see that. I don't know I just started to become envious of others as I was always restricted and more so as I got older.
I do believe in self improvement and that your suppose to experience pain or suffering to find peace. I don't know if recovery is always possible but that live can find a place for everyone I hope.

[RevanLugia]

I need to go but just think of how to be forceful without losing your morality or ethics maybe, or maybe u have to make them a bit more flexible. Like cops aren't that well liked because they tend to be stupid and take things hyperliterally at times but in an idealized sense, people want cops around as at their best they use force to stop amoral people from eating babies. Even though realistically they can't do this well often or catch the guy 80 years after they should have, but then arrogantly pat themselves on the back that they did something really moral but I mean, in principal- using force for good is the hero's way. U need to go on ur special mission quest where you find your ultimate weapon- LSE'S GAVEL that gives u ur Se that u need.

I'll let RaptorWizard write that one.

There is always beauty and release in the water of heaven, getting to heaven, looking up and not down, being wishful, full of love and chance.

The problem, like Tom Montalk of Transcending the Matrix Control System says, is that we are here, but we're not from here.

So we need to think about God - or for me, my female spirit angel Bunny. She restores lush coves of belief and courage to stampede with the auras of sound contemplation and the passion of miracles.

[RevanLugia]

AtopNewton, I mean maybe you have had the luxury of not having to confront it. I think that I know the very dark parts of life because I have experienced just about all of them. I think seeing others in pain or being in pain is not going to create a healthy brain always, but to me it seems I was meant to see that. I don't know I just started to become envious of others as I was always restricted and more so as I got older.
I do believe in self improvement and that your suppose to experience pain or suffering to find peace. I don't know if recovery is always possible but that live can find a place for everyone I hope.

True, that in order to focus on higher goals in existence, we must have the necessary foundation, like education, or survival-security.

I've asked myself philosophically before, "What if I'm the only person, and everyone else is a cheat?"

As Baruch Spinoza would say, knowledge of our own self leads to the endless horizons of possibilities and connection to God installing the legacy of Man from our lowest to highest moments and manifestations and, by mastering all of that, finding freedom (free will).

A way to drapes of opportunity raging down victory road to make us unstoppable and invincible.

[youfloweryourfeast]

Well sort of thinking it's important to use a bit of force or be mean in a sense to get by. As I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing to do as I started noticing people did that in less obvious ways. I think people on here may say EIIs are always suppose to always be nice moral people, but I think Delta NFs can be strict/or have weird morals if they want, which I think is what offsets the STs from them. Of course you want to be a nice and kind person but there are some people who don't care for that or see it as stupid. It can be a kind of on/off thing like if it's my PoLR but I'm doing it in a Fi way which can be confusing. There always way to balance behavior out I believe though in a normal way. It probably not healthy anyway to worry too much about trying to use your PoLR for any type but just understanding it can help maybe.

[godslave]

Beauty is not an aspect that belongs to Se, it's multi-elemental ; Since beauty is a) both subjective (in the eye of the beholder) and objective (symmetry in objects) and b) it can be found in both objects and in abstractions.
If "Se" is info about the object itself (in this case its "apparent, present kinetic capabilities, willpower, ability to become mobilized and mobilize others" ) and beauty is exclusive to Se domain (because that's the implication) then that exclude everything beautiful that doesn't pertain to objects and is abstract. For instance, an Idea can be beautiful, a Math equation can be beautiful, a feeling can be beautiful, an emotion can be beautiful, the product of our imagination can be beautiful etc..

SSS attributes beauty to Si, it's better than attributing it to Se but again, it can't be exclusive to Si because of the "b)" reason aforementioned.

Aushra got it wrong that's for sure. It's among the nonsensical stuff she said. Another of her nonsense is attributing "Fear" (an emotion !) to Ti information... I mean, in which universe can information relative to Fear be found in "object A compared, measured and contrasted to object B" where object A and/or B can be a rock ?

Fear is an Emotion it's of Fe domain primarily but can fall into Fi domain in the following case : "Sentient Entity A is afraid of Object B" That would be an emotion induced by the presence of Object B therefore it's an F i information.

---

That said, you seem to have an issue with Te imho.

Fwiw, you come across as one of the "saddest" person in this forum. I think you should participate and interact more with forum members. Apparently you do have a therapist so I guess you have at least the will to get better which is a very good thing.

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

Fwiw, you come across as one of the "saddest" person in this forum. I think you should participate and interact more with forum members. Apparently you do have a therapist so I guess you have at least the will to get better which is a very good thing.

i dont know if i should talk here or not, dk mb she can express it herself, or wahtever, or i may be talking about myself, but like irl most people on this forum are masking. its a public forum. u guys are strangers. some of you, be it inactive or lurkers, may be even more mressed up and sociopathic or whatever, so if thats the case how would someone be able to genuinely express their thoughts and feelings and feel adequately supported thus genuinely happy. my impression is most adults just have a bunch of repressed stuff and issues and mask all the time and force themselves to be happy because as soon as you say something real you are seen as a loser, be it because it's violent, or because it's sad/mopey or smth needing support. like even if there is one person who could be understanding and adequately supportive why would someone want a bunch of judgy strangers to see their genuine emotions and thoughts? most people even act as if your emotions and thoughts are finished. like you are what you express in the moment and thats all you are, like u dont have a brain whose whole point is to learn and change and become better kinda (i guess its to move/motion/emotion which includes maintentance over complex factors, a moving order)? wow wait. is the brain's point to take orders? to order, to take orders? Jesus Christ being what you should order by?

[The Reality Denialist]

Fear is an Emotion it's of Fe domain primarily but can fall into Fi domain in the following case : "Sentient Entity A is afraid of Object B" That would be an emotion induced by the presence of Object B therefore it's an F i information.

While using these methods may be used with any elements (threatening, mood, being out of equilibrium, loosing connection,..) the thing seems to relate to scenting out something that can not be either seen (sensing is about observation) nor being certain of something (rationality). Hence, the thing that is left is intuition, which can vary from higher to lower order. The higher order being capable of calming down or nudging.


This video from judging from Jung's point seems to make it all or nothing - not looking at the order of function, tho



You'll see how it is said that shamans (intuitives) can really be useful participants of a society by taking the edge of the unconscious intuition.

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

no. u nudge someone they go "why" the point of a nudge is i cant or shouldnt explain why for whatever reason. for whatever reason im not explaining why. and then u nudge them, thery do it, they keep following the nudges and something bad happens. maybe its par of the course, unavoidable, and they are actually on the right trakc but now is "hwy did u d othis to me. u said this and this happenned. ur a liar and manipulator" ok no im not i told u the truth. u can expalin it all to them anyway and they can still claim ur a liar. so what good does ur intuition do. by itself its not enough. u have to be so mcuh, too much, despite no one else being that way to you. you are forced to provide what you are not provided. intuition can be about things not immediately present either so u can be on a goal to achieve somehting, and people just keep dragging u down, because of their own issues blindness jealousy bad thoughts and make it ur problem. i have problems too, why dont they help me about them? oh but they want me to help them with theirs. and then they think u did nothing. u nudge someone u can make them think they did it themselves. even if fu direcrtly tell them smth, and they win bc they follow it, they can act like what u said is smth they could or did figure out themeslves.

God said "When I fed them, they were satisfied; when they were satisfied, they became proud; then they forgot me."

[godslave]

While using these methods may be used with any elements (threatening, mood, being out of equilibrium, loosing connection,..) the thing seems to relate to scenting out something that can not be either seen (sensing is about observation) nor being certain of something (rationality). Hence, the thing that is left is intuition, which can vary from higher to lower order. The higher order being capable of calming down or nudging.


This video from judging from Jung's point seems to make it all or nothing - not looking at the order of function, tho



You'll see how it is said that shamans (intuitives) can really be useful participants of a society by taking the edge of the unconscious intuition.

[Mode "I made everything about me" on /

Dr. J. Polimeni vibes like me and has the same type of body language a Jordan Peterson. His energy is very close mine, both in term of thinking style an Non-verbal. I think he's not my identical he is at least a quadra mate because let's face it I'm crazy and he's clearly not and I see myself in everyone (even if in this case I feel like it's kinda more flagrant !).

\ Mode "I made everything about me" off]

I will take notes as I watch (pausing /playing the video)

13.53 to 15.29. [Before commenting on that section just one observation: So far the social function of the shaman has not been evoked. Dr.P is talking a lot about what they do from an empirical state point but not about the nature of their social function. To me it's very simple, shamans are the intermediary between the unseen world ( such as afterlife and everything related to the invisible (unseen of which "darkness" is the square root )) and reality, that's the social role that gives them a certain authority. ]

He has a similar take as me. However I will add this : He seems to talk about primitive societies (he talked earlier in the video about pre-renaissance societies as a limit), now what is "rational" in a given society depends on its understanding of world, what I call the "Grand Narrative" inherent to every society. The Grand Narrative is an explanation of the world its genesis, its myths, the past , the future, the very reasons of existence. He said that rational relies on the shaman when it has reached its limits. I will add that one of the shaman's functions is to explain certain phenomena or solutionize certain desperate situations. You see, this is an universal truth in the human condition, when we reach the limits of rational reasoning and empirical knowledge, we rely on Intuition to fill in the gaps and bring hope. The shaman does exactly that, he is an Introverted Intuitive Type. Now even during the renaissance great thinkers and philosophers like Descartes ans Blaise Pascal to name only two, were biased by the Grand Narrative namely Christianity, Religion was to them their "theory of everything" a giant wall in the celestial vault that imprisoned the reason and intuition within that religious paradigm. We will have to wait for the Einleithment and the destruction of that celestial vault to free "reason" and allow Intuition be summed again.

Sidenote : I don't like the attitude of the host, he makes his guest looks like a stooge. He is taking too much time between questions showing that he understands what Dr.P just said by basically trying to synthesize Dr.P's answers but ended-up tangeanting and rambling before asking the next question...

God bless the Youtube playback speed function ! I don't know why I almost never use it !

17.10 to 18.17 That makes sense ! I guess what Dr.P is trying to say here is "I see the world in a Dynamic way, I'm not a static type !" We shall see...

19.26 to 21.01 (Clear signs of Mental Si, Ni (both accepting) and Fe).

21.36 to 22.11 (signs of Fe blocked with Ni Mental) Note : I think he is indirectly referring to Jung and Ni when he said something like " emotions perceived unconsciously" (I'm paraphrasing). Ni in Jung being a perception by means of the unconscious. (Ni in jung is like Lucifer it brings to the light of consciousness what was hidden in the Darkness of the unconscious ).

22.33 to 23.23 I agree. Although I would be more cautious with that psychosis thing. He is basically implying that the vision of the shaman comes in general schizophrenia. But even if the "unseen world" is only to be found within, the access to it is not exclusive to psychotic people. Indeed, the same state can be reached via substances (hallucinogenic drugs) and we all know that shamanism has always involved the consommation of all kind of substances that open the spirit to the spiritual world.

It all stems from what I talked about above, Human being can't be left in the dark, they want to know where they come from and where they are heading even after their death. Transcendence is part of the human condition, without it there is no meaning in life and most Human being can't accept that perspective and so comes the shaman,the prophet, the priest, the guru, the cult leader, the "spiritual guide".

23.24 to 23.27 well that's exactly what I've just said ! I should have waited two seconds before hitting pause and commenting !

24.03 to 26.07 Jesus Christ ! I'm shocked, he definitely vibes like me ! A lot of mental Fe and Ni in that section. I'm starting to see the shape of his TIM more clearly.

27.06 to 28.39 "evolution doesn't care whether you suffer or not, just that your genes get passed on" I could have written that line myself ! Again a lot of HD Ni here.

29.19 to 33.43 Fascinating ! I played this section twice. I've never heard of that theory, I'll try to learn more about Pascal Boyer's theories.

34.30 to 34.33 Precision matters indeed ! (I like this guy !) (and the host got his PolR hit !)

35.00 to 36.08 Again HD Ni Mental.

sidenote : I used to do something that might be considered by Dr.P as a schizophrenic thing to do ; Back in the days when I still had a religious faith (before I turned Absurdist Muslim), I would open the Quran in a random page and the first verse I would read would be interpreted as a personal message to me from God ... Of course even at that time I would try to not take it seriously but in retrospect, the very fact that I was doing that stuff makes me feel even more crazy that I already am... I most certainly have some predispositions for it (I had a brief psychotic episode when I woke up from coma back in 1996 so...)

36.30 to 37.24 The host asked Dr.P a question that induced a new situation and required strong T functions. Dr.P deflected the question by using his strong IEs (Ne). Signs of Mental producing T. I think Dr.P got his PolR hit...

38.58 to 41.42 (40.48 to 40.52 here Dr.P said tha shamanism is a societal "role" , that's what I was saying in my first comment above ) again some Ne and Ni.

While the host was rambling, an idea came to mind : Maybe the so-called familial "gift" we often hear about in paranormal circles (you know, super-perception, divination, 6th sense etc...) is actually genetic ? That would explain the heredity. Now if the "gift" is in fact schizophrenia or any other hereditary similar psychosis Mental health (that can be activated by default (at birth) or under certain conditions or not at all) that would also makes sense.

42.54 to 44.27 Shout out for saying "propensity", instant Jordan Peterson vibes lol ! Again I agree with Dr.P.
Some Ne and signs of Te Polr.

45.36 to 48.00 Signs of Te superEgo block , HD Ni, Some Fi

48.17 to 50.05 HD Ego block Ni + some Ne. Not that since the beginning of the interview Dr.G Kept bringing contextes which renders the localisation of his Ni in the producing position. This has to be confirmed though, let's continue...

50.20 to 50.50 again signs of Te Polr (I'm confused...)

Again, I don't like the vibe of the host, I think he's overreacting his persona. Maybe he is autistic or something....

51.26 to 53.00 some HD Fi (probably vital but not clearly indicated)

53.13 to 56.57 Signs of Ti Mobilizing

57.25 to 58.36 HD Ne and Ni HD Fi and Fe. He's definitely an NF type !

59.37 to 1.02.17 HD Ni

Conclusion : I'm leaning IEI for Dr.P, IEE for the host. Both Having ADHD, the typing is difficult and I need more data to confirm.

That said , it was very interesting indeed.

Why did I tried to typed the guy ? I don't' know. I started at 3.38 pm and it's now 2.36 am... I did other stuff at the same time though but yeah, this is the kind of time it takes me to type, and the result are meh...

[youfloweryourfeast]

Hmm, I didn't really notice coming off as the saddest person tbh. I just make posts here and there.

[youfloweryourfeast]

I mean I do wanna say I think I am Delta NF, I have been diagnosed with AVPD. I've also been diagnosed with Cyclothymic disorder. I started to have problems getting along with others, because I couldn't control my emotional reactions. In a way a part of some struggles I have with being delta is I don't think a lot of people like me or it seems I come off as too distant/look down and then if I'm not involving myself, idk people tend to get really mad at me. Sometimes it's difficult for me to be nice to others as I get easily irritated and upset this has started to happen sometimes with my relatives, but as I said I am going to counseling for it. I don't think the Cyclothymic is as severe since I can have normal functioning days but others are not good for me to be around my family or in school as sometimes I'm prone to getting easily upset. Some of it is triggered from stuff that has happened to me/ part of that being onset experiences I've had in school with others last year along with in summer camp. But bcos those experiences where recent it's why there like a lot of highs and lows in my behavior that possibly hopefully will start to become better in a the next years.

In some ways I could seem more Beta NF or SF but I think I come off as often too withdrawn/distant at times and overly passive, high and my emotions are either high low, but I can be pretty calm in nature well that was how I seemed growing up more so.