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Thread: Hikikomori

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    Darth Slavius godslave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anotherperson View Post
    sorry godslave , not sexual exhibitionism ! the term was used loosely, it means the schizoid would put on the facade of an engaging personality, but its low-risk because its not their real self anyway



    It is I who am sorry, I should have better understood what you meant !

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    Spoiler Alert


    This is a very well done analysis of Tatsuhiro Satou* the main character of "NHK ni Youkoso" (Welcome to the NHK)).

    I like Hazie's text for the video, it's well written. He also got good insights on the situation of society towards the end of the video.


    * He should have been on Post #1 of this thread. Of course there are a lot of similarities between Satou and I in terms of personality...
    Last edited by godslave; 06-11-2024 at 03:04 AM.
    Lack is the Muse of all Poets

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    Accepting my severe anxiety disorder diagnosis has been quite difficult for me. Even if it's not necessarily related, I'm sure that I'm not agoraphobic (that's a specific phobia out of the way !). When I go outside, I feel like an aquarium fish who would swim in its natural environment for a short period of time. I also feel like on a mission, as a matter of fact when I go back home I often say out loud " mission accomplished !". Furthermore When I'm outside I am sure of displaying an energy of self-confidence and determination. I feel like I incarnate a form of quiet strength as If I was some kind of a knight from an heroic fantasy novel. I am therefore sure of having a certain charisma which is of course in total contradiction with my lifestyle and diagnosis, but that impression of myself could be the product of my own delusion.

    On the other hand, It took me years to be able to overcome my anxiety of a) waiting in the hall for the elevator and b) once in the elevator find myself with people with suspicious energy i.e. people who seem unstable and unpredictable. I mean, I live in a working-class neighborhood and it's riddled with drug gangs. I don't know anyone, unlike most people who know who's who in the neighborhood. People kill each other with kalashnikovs here ! Anyone will understand that there indeed reasons to be anxious even for someone who doesn't have an Anxiety disorder. Also I dislike finding myself in confined spaces with people. I don't like to be touched and I don't like been in a position where I'm forced to enter the intimate space of people and touch them.

  4. #44
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    I haven’t read the thread godslave but fwiw (if you didn’t already know haha) agoraphobia is more so being unable to find help or get help and potentially stuck in a situation

    im not saying it’s the best description but yeah

    so it’s not about fear of being out and about per se, it’s fear of being left to sort of fend for oneself when you potentially might feel like it’s not enough

    i hope I’m articulating it correctly lol



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    Here is another Hiroshi Yamazoe video. In this one he explains his life trajectory and I was fascinated by how similar it is with my own. I mean even the pictures he uses to illustrate the kind of "Job" he used to have hit home. We can say that Hiroshi and I have about the same resume. He has autism though. I am not autistic although I suspected that I was on the spectrum for a long time. I mean, the only differences is that a) my demeanor and energy are different (I'm more dynamic and expressive) and b) I had romantic stories in North Africa and that's the secret reason why I used to spend half the year there. Anyways..



    This quote that I re-listened today says a lot about the Hikikomori like phenomenon. I'm starting to think that I identify with Hikikomori too much, it's a cage in which I locked myself in, maybe a Role I incarnate. I don't know.

    [..] As we know, it is not the conscious subject but the unconscious which does the projecting. Hence one meets with projections, one does not make them. The effect of projection is to isolate the subject from his environment, since instead of a real relation to it there is now only an illusory one. Projections change the world into the replica of one’s own unknown face. In the last analysis, therefore, they lead to an autoerotic or autistic condition in which one dreams a world whose reality remains forever unattainable. The resultant sentiment d’incomplétude and the still worse feeling of sterility are in their turn explained by projection as the malevolence of the environment, and by means of this vicious circle the isolation is intensified. The more protections are thrust in between the subject and the environment, the harder it is for the ego to see through its illusions. A forty-five-year-old patient who had suffered from a compulsion neurosis since he was twenty and had become completely cut off from the world once said to me: “But I can never admit to myself that I’ve wasted the best twenty-five years of my life!”

    Carl Jung - AION Researches into the Phenomenology of the Self (Chapter II - The Shadow).





    Last edited by godslave; 06-15-2024 at 03:38 AM.

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    I wonder if a neurotic social instinct might be relevant here too (enneagram)



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    mb IEIs

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    When I woke up today, I found lots of missed calls on my phone, including 12 whatsapp missed calls. I thought something dramatic had happened. So I called my mother back, preparing myself for the worst. It turned out to be Eid al-Adha today (a Holiday in Islam) ! All these phone calls were mainly from my mother, the whatsapp stuff were from family members in North Africa. Welcome to my Hikikomori life...

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    Quote Originally Posted by godslave View Post




    I think he looks like Haruki Murakami



    I think our society is screwed in the long run because it absolutely destroys the most sensible souls who reflect upon moral values and hold themselves with dignity.
    Quote Originally Posted by idiot View Post
    I have been thinking about what Alive was saying about everyone on here being IEI, and I conclude that he is right, or at least he is on to something.

    If Jung based his theories on the people he met in his life, even if he met more people than the average person, that means that he based his theories on a certain type of person. The type of person who might go to him for therapy or talks, or who might believe the esoteric ideas he was spouting at the time. Thus it's possible that he did not categorize all humans into types, but just made subtypes for a specific type of person. This overarching type of person is the same type that is heavily interested in theories of this kind, and whom Alive says is an IEI.

    Therefore, Alive is right. We are all IEIs with subtypes. With that, I'm off this forum
    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ung-s-subjects

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    This thread starts to look more and more like my personal diary or something ! I didn't intend it to be this way.

    Anyway, socionics is probably 70% of my problem right now. Of course I have a whole bunch of problems that prevent me from functioning normally in society, but this time it's different. Indeed, my hibernation period has never been that long. Furthermore, not functioning in society has never meant not working in private, at least not for me. What do I mean by that ? Well, it's just the fact that I don't indulge in activities that not only I enjoyed but with which I identify myself. I mean, write some stuff (music, poetry etc...), use my home studio my synths, plug my guitar, test new plugins, keep my computers up to date etc.. Also, play some video games, watch Anime* , J-dramas, TV series, movies etc.. Travel to North Africa, been in a place where I know that I'm appreciated and loved. You know all that Te stuff ! (just kidding !)

    Something is holding me back. The more time passes, the more things change and the more they become unrecognizable. That's the paradox of waiting ; we might be the masters of our own time but the world never waits. The problem is that I like to finish what I start and prefer not to start another time-consuming "project" until I've finished the previous one. By "project" I mean studying or learning a particular subject, indulging in the learning curve as it were.**

    Now, what does this have to do with socionics ? One might ask. Well, journey through socionics is like being on a Homeric ship, without destination. This forum also feels like some kind of mythological Gods punishment, it's like Tartarus and I feel like Ocnus, confused by the cycle of coming and going of forum members and their own understanding of socionics. Let's face it, most of them don't get it. As if all this wasn't enough, some people mix a bunch of different typologies together and all this seems like a huge Gordian knot. This is what holds me back, I can't get a sense of closure and move on. All I wanted is to know what's my freaking sociotype and learn about the theory ! Socionics is not a cult though, but to paraphrase Sartre, Gods are the others...


    * I'm rewatching Dragon Ball Z since a few weeks. It's on TV (A French TV channel called "Manga") from 7.30 AM to 21 AM. It became a ritual but I'm not the one who took the initiative to re-watch it. It just happened that I catched the first episode of the rediffusion and got hooked. Gosh, I haven't re-watched some of these episodes since it first came out in France back in 1990's christmas Eve...

    ** When it comes to my creative projects, it's different. Usually, starting and outlining ideas, let's say for a musical project, is easier than completing them. I like to perform music and compose at the same time that's why I prefer to improvise. With poetry I always kinda respect certain rules and forms. In general, I consider all my creative work as ephemeral (esp music) so I don't really structure stuff like a final product unless someone asks me to produce something (it happened in the past).
    Last edited by godslave; 06-18-2024 at 08:46 PM. Reason: Rectified something I said about poetry in the ** section

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    there's likely no closure to be found. typology is just a bunch of random assumptions in the same way that people here make random assumptions about what Te is or what intuition means,



    what if all of the people in this picture were IEI? with all kinds of different personalities getting along with each other or hating each other. a bunch of intellectuals discussing vague theoretical concepts ad nauseam. what if the whole premise of the 16 types were already based on inaccurate observations and they do not even remotely exist how they have been described (keep in mind Jung didn't even propose 16 types in the first place).
    Quote Originally Posted by idiot View Post
    I have been thinking about what Alive was saying about everyone on here being IEI, and I conclude that he is right, or at least he is on to something.

    If Jung based his theories on the people he met in his life, even if he met more people than the average person, that means that he based his theories on a certain type of person. The type of person who might go to him for therapy or talks, or who might believe the esoteric ideas he was spouting at the time. Thus it's possible that he did not categorize all humans into types, but just made subtypes for a specific type of person. This overarching type of person is the same type that is heavily interested in theories of this kind, and whom Alive says is an IEI.

    Therefore, Alive is right. We are all IEIs with subtypes. With that, I'm off this forum
    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ung-s-subjects

  12. #52
    A turn in the phrase Distance's Avatar
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    You've been at it for awhile, use the force as you so jokingly post here with the Yoda gifs, but really, what does your base intuition say when you consult your personal oracle? it is probably right.

    Most people here are settled into a type, some feel closer to two types, like Braingel, and others.

    Shoot!



    Black & white is a shallow divide ∕∕division is the color that multiplies

    The good news in knowing you are wrong is you're right


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    A little better makes better more
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  13. #53
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    They don't like the society they live in. In the past, when there were no nation-states, people would just take their stuff and move away by feet.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by godslave View Post
    Something is holding me back. The more time passes, the more things change and the more they become unrecognizable. That's the paradox of waiting ; we might be the masters of our own time but the world never waits. The problem is that I like to finish what I start and prefer not to start another time-consuming "project" until I've finished the previous one. By "project" I mean studying or learning a particular subject, indulging in the learning curve as it were.**

    Now, what does this have to do with socionics ? One might ask. Well, journey through socionics is like being on a Homeric ship, without destination. This forum also feels like some kind of mythological Gods punishment, it's like Tartarus and I feel like Ocnus, confused by the cycle of coming and going of forum members and their own understanding of socionics. Let's face it, most of them don't get it. As if all this wasn't enough, some people mix a bunch of different typologies together and all this seems like a huge Gordian knot. This is what holds me back, I can't get a sense of closure and move on. All I wanted is to know what's my freaking sociotype and learn about the theory ! Socionics is not a cult though, but to paraphrase Sartre, Gods are the others...
    Look, I don't know if you give a shit what I think, but I'm going to put the "cards" on the table...so to speak.

    I think you are condescending with your expectations of others in presenting or explaining this theory to you. This probably is Socionically related because you don't seem to care for logically organizing or systematically relating aspects of the theory, which is mildly infuriating when you both seem to denigrate Socionics as a valid cognitive framework, yet also expect to be "typed". Your behavior is contradictory. It's also a completely flawed approach because this is a "cognitive framework" and you seem to want external consensus or empirical justification. This IS representative of you valuing Te over Ti, at least in the context of the forum. You don't have to accept that or understand what I'm saying and NO I'm not going to explain it any more than that.

    And not only that, but you also want "others" to type you (huge red flag). That's not how this works. If you can't even self-reflect enough to have some idea what you relate with, what good is others "giving" you a type? Lack of self-identity isn't something Socionics is going to fix. wtf.

    o_o
    I'm Lain, just like you are now, aren't I?




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    Darth Slavius godslave's Avatar
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    Thanks you for your time !

    Quote Originally Posted by pzombieLIT View Post
    Look, I don't know if you give a shit what I think, but I'm going to put the "cards" on the table...so to speak.






    I think you are condescending with your expectations of others in presenting or explaining this theory to you. This probably is Socionically related because you don't seem to care for logically organizing or systematically relating aspects of the theory, which is mildly infuriating when you both seem to denigrate Socionics as a valid cognitive framework, yet also expect to be "typed". Your behavior is contradictory.

    Ouch ! Condescending ? Me ? This is really the last thing I would like to come across as. Sorry for all the people reading my posts who might have that opinion of me.

    I don't expect others to type me, even if I like it when they do. I don't need people to explain the theory to me, I'm already familiar with it. I've done my homework like everybody here.

    I don't denigrate socionics as a valid cognitive framework. On the contrary I often said that it is an internally consistent stand alone system (or framework). I wouldn't be here if I wasn't interested in socionics and saw its potential. Besides, socionics can be criticized. That's what socionics aficionados and even socionics pros do all the time. Even Aushra did criticised her own work because she was well aware that her system was a work in progress. Not to mention all the socionics schools and differences in opinions between them. Tha doesn't mean that they denigrate socionics, I mean this is not a cult and there is no inquisition here.

    Even if I was very sceptical about the validity of socionics (which I'm not !) I do have an open mind so typing or being typed doesn't necessarily imply that you accept or believe in the validity of the system. I mean, I know my astrological signs, but that doesn't mean that I believe in astrology. One might be an expert in theology without being religious. "Clothes don't make the man" as they say.

    My behavior (?) might seem contradictory to you but in the light of what I've just said I hope that it seems less contradictory now. That said, it is fair to say that my behavior in real life can be hard to follow. I am indeed a living contradiction in the sense that I am a bit of a chameleon and a have different hats that don't necessarily make sense within the same individual. I'm a tricky one, let's put it that way.

    It's also a completely flawed approach because this is a "cognitive framework" and you seem to want external consensus or empirical justification. This IS representative of you valuing Te over Ti,at least in the context of the forum.
    No, again I don't want external consensus or empirical justification. Even if it was the case, that wouldn't be enough to establish a clear Te over Ti valuation, at least not in socionics.

    You don't have to accept that or understand what I'm saying and NO I'm not going to explain it any more than that.
    I mean, although it is true that I am an idiot, for some reason that reminder hurts when it comes from someone I don't know very well. However if it comes from someone very close then it's okay. in fact, I might even enjoy it !

    And not only that, but you also want "others" to type you (huge red flag). That's not how this works. If you can't even self-reflect enough to have some idea what you relate with, what good is others "giving" you a type? Lack of self-identity isn't something Socionics is going to fix. wtf.

    o_o
    Again I don't want "others" to type me. What do you mean by red flag ?

    I'm not sure if I have a lack of self-identity. Contrary to what it might seem, I think I'm pretty self-aware. I don't count on socionics to fix anything, that would be indeed a mistake. If someone has a mental health issue (as a reminder, we are in the Hikikomori thread !), then one should consult a mental health professional.

    Anyway, thanks again.

  16. #56
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    I didn't know where to post this but since this thread has been like some kind of personal diary and given the fact that the following might partly explain why I live like a hikikomori, I figured that I might as well post it here...



    I recently received a virulent criticism from a forum member that somewhat hurted my self-esteem and kinda made me realized how I can come-across in a manner that I haven't expected. Contrary to what it might seem, I think I have one of the most critical mindset of this forum. I might actually be one of the few who try to constructively critique typologies and typing methodologies among the 16Types aficionados. That doesn't mean that I de facto reject socionics nor that I try to improve it in any ways. I will not make my own version of socionics or come up with a new Model and redefining stuff. I have neither the will nor the energy to do so.

    You see, I'm a real skeptic. But of course like all real skeptics I also keep an opened mind."I want to believe" is not just a poster in the X-files show, it's also a mindset which I also happened to have. To me almost every new idea or information which is not clearly and obviously nonsensical and that I can't immediately verify the veracity of via multiple sources, exists in the field of possibilities but is considered as "unusable/unreliable" until it has been thoroughly scrutinized and at least accepted as logically sound. Most of the time when I try to analyse an Idea, I would be immediately aware of its weakest point, that is to say the I would default in my " This can not be possible because xyz" mode. But for some reason my mind would soon after shift to "This might be possible if xyz" mode.

    I would say that to me the field of possibilities is more like a quarantaine space in which ideas have to be crash tested as it were. Of course, there is no definite time to assess the veracity or probable logical soundness of an idea. Sometimes it takes a few seconds and sometimes it takes years and sometimes anything in between. I would also like to mention that I am extremely sensible to anachronisms, indeed tracking the evolution of ideas and the contexts that might have been favorable or unfavorable to their conceptualizations or conscious awareness is one if not the most important factor of scrutinization.

    That said, I also have my codes and prime directive that prevent me to overtly and bluntly say what I think to everybody. Most of the time, I adapt to the worldview of my interlocutor. I know that I can be very persuasive if I really want to but I prefer to keep a leave and let live attitude. One could say that it's the attitude of a person who doesn't give a poo. That's almost true. I will not be the defender of "my truth" and try to make people think as I do if I feel like they are happy with their own beliefs. One has to be aware of the psychological damages that could be induced by imposing one's own worldview to people who are psychologically balanced, comfortable and healthy within their own worldview and beliefs.

    For instance, I'm a Muslim yet not a believer. I pray five time a day and have my rituals. I have a bit of OCD and I practice Islam since I was 10-11 years old. I kept practicing Islam even after I had gone from the status of agnostic Muslim to that of "Muslim not Mu'min" just to keep whatever remains of my sanity. That said, never in my life have I prozelytized anybody. I have been in a position where that behavior would have been thought of as normal and expected but still, I've never done it. I'm not a moralist and certainly not a champion of vertue to begin with and I will never tell or put people in a situation where they are forced to do what I want them to do if they don't want to. That's against my way of being.In fact, even if a person asks for it, I might not do it if I feel that I shouldn't for whatever reason.

    On the other hand, stuff can happen to me via strange chain of circumstances, mostly because of my go with the flow attitude. For instance, between 2010 and 2014 I've been the seasonal "assistant" of an occultist (a "Azem" which is defined in some arabic dialects as a function or a job ; the person who makes talismans, the spiritual healer kind of Islamic archetype). I said "seasonal" because most of the occult activities (basically "treasure hunting" ) were made during the summer time. I've learned most occult stuff on my own reading books on the occult (similar to "Shams al-Ma'arif") but the occultist would ask me to assist him in certain rituals because I had certain set of skills. Since I have the weak trait of personality* that is having a hard time saying no to people who count on me, I accepted. How did I find myself in that situation is a long story that I might tell another time.

    This is why I might appear to some forumites as uncertain, weird, kind of inconsistent and of course a total imbecile. To be honest I am all of that but as they say, "There's a method to my madness !"




    * That trait of personality which is most certainly type related, might also explain why I prefer to live away from people like a hikikomori...
    Last edited by godslave; 06-27-2024 at 12:12 AM.
    Lack is the Muse of all Poets

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    Darth Slavius godslave's Avatar
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    I woke up yesterday at around 9pm, just in time for the semi-final match between England and the Netherlands. As usual, I made myself a café au lait with my two Prince de Lu cookies and my medication. After swallowing the whole thing, I suddenly realized that I absolutely had to take the blood test tomorrow morning. My quarterly appointment with my doctor was getting closer, and this time I wouldn't be able to find any excuses. He would kill me if I didn't bring him the results of my blood test. So I stopped eating and drinking to reach the minimum 8-hour fast. I started counting from 10 pm. I was at the lab at 8.20 am and the blood test was taken at 8.30 am. I fasted for 10 and a half hours.

    I know the nurse, I like her energy; nice , kind, and has a good sense of humour. She was the one who took my last blood test. She, however, didn't seem to remember me. Before starting, she looked at my file and noticed that it had been a while since my last blood test.

    Nurse : " "You know, you have to take your blood samples in due time. Otherwise, how can the doctor keep track of your diabetes ? It's very important." she said with a lecturing yet benevolent tone.

    me : " Oh yes, I know, you're absolutely right. It's true that there's nothing in the world that I procrastinate more than blood tests !"

    She looked at me and read my embarrassed face and tone..

    Nurse" Why is that ? " she said as she was preparing the equipment

    me : " Well, I'm one of those people who are afraid of both needles and the sight of blood..."

    Nurse : " Aww, I see. But you know, I can understand that you skip your blood tests. I mean 9 months between two test is almost okay , but it has been two years now.

    I honestly couldn't believe it ! I was shocked but it was true. I thought it was less than that, around one year and three months but I was obviously wrong.

    Nurse : "Okay, Come on ! Give me an arm ! Let's see, which one... left or right ?" she said cheerfully, peering at my inner elbows.

    I was in position but petrified from that point on..

    Nurse : "Your veins look like like Highways ! It's great for me, I like that" She said laughingly as she was sliding her chair to my right.

    Nurse : " I can understand the fear, but nowadays we have like micro-needles nothing like before, you know when the needles were huge !"

    me " Indeed, I'm old enough to remember these kind of needles !"

    Nurse : "My daughter is like you, don't worry I'm used to it ! Now relax and in about 10 seconds it will be over" She said while tying the tourniquet around my arm. She noticed my stress and continued : " You're sweating already, don't start tensing up, take a deep breath..and her we go it's almost done now"

    I felt almost nothing but, you know it is what it is, an irrational fear...

    In the meantime she asked me :

    Nurse : "By the way, we are doing free HIV tests, would you mind to participate ?"

    me " No, if it mean taking more blood !" I said in a trans like state..

    Nurse : "No, not at all ! It's just for a statistic project !"

    me : "Okay then, but It's quite improbable that I am HIV+ " I said without more explanations

    Nurse : "Okay, great ! Now, take a deep breath again... done !"

    As she was putting a bandage on my arm, she said

    Nurse : "Wait a second, don't look yet if you are afraid of blood sight." Two seconds later : "Okay, press here"

    I obeyed and she put some medical tape.

    Nurse : "It's over !" she laughed

    me " Oh, I'm so happy I've finally done it ! It's not a big deal !"

    Nurse : " Yeah ! I'm proud of you ! You did great !"

    I thanked her warmly and wished her and the secretary a good day on the way out.

    As usual after a blood test, I felt like I made a great accomplishment. Quite frankly, I was more happy to not disappoint my doctor in my next appointment than the fact that I faced my fear with strength and Honor !

    Anyway, I then went to the mall make some shopping. I was back home around 10 am. I made myself another café au lait with my two Prince de Lu cookies. Total fasting time : 12 hours !
    Last edited by godslave; 07-11-2024 at 11:00 AM.
    Lack is the Muse of all Poets

  18. #58

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