https://temperamenttest.org/en-gb/
Do this test, temperaments say a lot that is usually unseen when you don't know someone personally and at a close psychological distance. That will help me use my intuition to see your soul a lil better since I haven't interacted with you
And show me a print of the graph that is shown after you get the results
Yay
Flirt with ideas
Date opportunities
Marry problem-solving
From the little I've seen from your communication/cognition + these results
Introverted > Extroverted
Ne > Ni
Si > Se
Si > Ne
Perceiving > Judging
F > T
Well, it's clear to me you have repressed Ne.
I'd say Si dominant is the best bet for now
The second best bet is Fi dominant.
I don't see any other likely dom function.
Anyway Si is definitely strong. Maybe demonstrative? Not sure
Best bet still Si dom
My two cents
Flirt with ideas
Date opportunities
Marry problem-solving
Black & white is a shallow divide ∕∕division is the color that multipliesx
Taking things at face value is good only for a spell⛧
Abstract builds a soul, a house can never become a home without it ♀
A little better makes better more>
♦♦
Update:
2D+ Fi
3D+ Si
Fi/Si dom
My final answer. Won't go further
Flirt with ideas
Date opportunities
Marry problem-solving
I wasn't at all attracted in a romantical way or something similar neither to male nor to female ones , it's just that I found superficial communication with them easier than other people , anyway, I stopped contacting with all of them except one , who turned out to be an ILE
Souls know their way back home
Black & white is a shallow divide ∕∕division is the color that multipliesx
Taking things at face value is good only for a spell⛧
Abstract builds a soul, a house can never become a home without it ♀
A little better makes better more>
♦♦
I usually don't use ITR in my communication or even pay attention to it , to me there's no difference between two people who give me good feelings, or between two people who give me bad feelings
Souls know their way back home
I will publish some of my most accurate observations about myself
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1- When I say about something that I like it, it's in fact what I was comfortable with/I consider it to be the best in terms of the features/ experience/and what it provides in general , not really what I like in the literal sense
I can of course think of what I like but it's really difficult to arrange it from the most to the least ( If I do this, there will be two or more things in the same rank.) , it's even harder to rate things on a scale ( out of 100 etc ) , however, I have to admit that sometimes I actually have certain biases towards something without it being the easiest or the best just because I'm attached to it
Anyway, most things become normal for me after a while, even my enemies who hurt me I don't feel anything intense or strong towards them.
_________________________
2- It happens sometimes that certain lighting conditions, or certain sounds ,or - less likely - when I see something similar to what I used to do in the past , at a certain time of the day (such as early morning or midnight) awaken an old feeling+sensation that I felt in the past somewhere , it's not something that happens on a daily or almost daily basis, but it still happens , for example, when I woke up once in the morning, I heard the sound of birds outside and looked out the window , the lighting and sound brought back the feeling of primary school, when I would wake up early in the morning and get ready to go to school on the first day of school.
_________________________
3- I have more positive attitude towards information than negative one , I tend to collect information and judge it later , I immediately accept facts ( statistics and studies, for example ) , other kinds of information is judged/checked via observation , experience and extended searching
When an info is checked I use it later as a " starting point " to think conclude and analyze when needed
_________________________
4- As for analyzing and concluding, I usually only analyze information when :
a) I doubt/find the information unreasonable , this usually happens when the information provided conflicts with what I have considered to be accurate and checked, the analysis process accompanies the extensive research process that I do in this case , after all of this, I either accept the new information and edit the previous in my mind, or reject it and keep my reasons to reject for future needs , or keep the information without accepting it or rejecting it ( such as when there are different opinions about something )
b) sometimes when others bring up their ideas , I find myself analyzing/judging it
c) when I don't agree with someone and want to oppose him
d) something happened in front of me and seemed a little strange
It's very rare and uncommon for me to have conclusions and guesses without prior basis , I have two cases of concludes though :
a) I jump to a conclusion then I immediately realize all the information that led me to this conclusion
b) I throw in all the information and suddenly reach a conclusion based on it
b is most likely though
_________________________
5- My lifestyle depends mainly on the environment I'm in and the number of activities I can do ,in my first high school, I sometimes nearly felt asleep in the class , the atmosphere of this school was a dark and depressing.
In my second high school, I was very active and I could barely sit still because it was the exact opposite: bright, light, and crowded.
My current home has a rural style and it's a little isolated from the city , since I moved there, my social activity has decreased a lot and I have become more focused on relaxing.
The house in which I lived as a child was in a crowded area, there are many places nearby to visit such as parks and libraries, transportation is available all the time (and therefore it is possible to go to the city center so easily whenever someone wants ) , this period of my life was the most active, lively, and enthusiastic , it was also my most social period, and I was much bolder then than later periods and more involved in group activities (
My university is currently in the city center, and these days I combine an active lifestyle in the city center/university with a laid-back lifestyle at home.
_________________________
6- I think it is very natural for me to be a contributer in any community I'm in, whether irl or online
Cases in which I don't participate in society are :
a) I don't have the necessary experience/skills/knowledge or anything to actually offer
b) I don't see that my participation has any impact : for example, I might participate in an afforestation campaign but I won't vote in the elections here because whether I voted or not, the result is the same and known to everyone
_________________________
7- I plan my projects before I do them but if the period between planning time and doing time is so long I don't make plans full of details because I might edit it later based on new conditions and updates
Last edited by Biscuit; 04-18-2024 at 05:44 AM.
Souls know their way back home
Here's an example of analyzing I did :
I was on public transportation a few months ago , an Asian tourist girl who didn't speak Arabic boarded the bus with us, so I was the mediator between her and the passengers, since no one else on the bus was good at English enough to chat with her , a woman next to me whispered to me : I think she works as a maid and is not really a tourist but rather pretends to be , I doubted this since because she didn't look like one, especially since she showed us pictures of herself on an island regulated by the city. Later, I knew from her that she was from Hong Kong, so I ruled out that she would work here as a maid , in the evening, I thought about it a little and stood firm in my opinion because :
a) Maids usually come from Southeast Asian countries , not East Asia
b) Hong Kong has excellent living conditions , and in general people there earn much more than anyone here could imagine earning , and in her country there are tech companies such as HTC and it exports technological equipment to us , so she doesn't need really because no matter how little her earnings are if she works there, it will still be much higher than here
c) Even if she was going to work as a maid , maids usually go to the Gulf countries because it's known that demand there for maids is very high, but in Syria it's extremely low
Souls know their way back home
something else about my feelings is that it turn into sensations , for example: anger love and passion turn into kinetic energy (they energize me),sadness turns into physical pain , despair turns into laziness , etc
Souls know their way back home
Fe valuing is gathering the moods of others and feeding off of it, and adjusting to the mood of the room. If someone says black and you think white, you might hold back from saying it, or if not, you will adjust to it in a way to make them feel not so bad, or even better, diplomatically.
My late dad used to do it, being LSI. There is still an element of diplomacy with low Fe in valuing types.
You adjust to the feeling vibe and know how to work it.
A common theme with Fe is a direct awareness how everyone feels about something, emotionally.
Black & white is a shallow divide ∕∕division is the color that multipliesx
Taking things at face value is good only for a spell⛧
Abstract builds a soul, a house can never become a home without it ♀
A little better makes better more>
♦♦
How do you feel about this sites ENFp's, like a dual docking? Like the other half?
Em, you showed enthusiasm with me in the past here, like opening yourself up, even with the Sol fiasco, you vibed in my groove.
I teased him a lot in some instances, but I wanted to change his MO on this forum, not just because I felt his annoyance in others, he left me alone, i had no skin in the game personally, but also to change his philosophy on interpersonal awareness. To sincerely make him better, but to no avail in the end.
Black & white is a shallow divide ∕∕division is the color that multipliesx
Taking things at face value is good only for a spell⛧
Abstract builds a soul, a house can never become a home without it ♀
A little better makes better more>
♦♦
tbh I just deal better with those who don't cause me headache
Sol was annoying, not because he was " objective " - he actually wasn't - , not because he's a T type etc , not because of ITR , but because of some traits in him that makes discussion - if there's any - nearly impossible , I actually want to open up no matter what's the type, and I usually find myself opening up when it's possible , but doing so in a one-way discussion is impossible , that's the difference between you and Sol
As for IEEs , they're good , I don't have close IEE friend currently but all IEEs I superficially deal with are good to be around
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Tried Advanced Personality Enneagram Test and got this :
Since the test questions had became based on Ichazo's version of Instagram, I haven't once got a result that is not 9 or 8 as the core, and the difference between them is always small
I can't really judge that E8 thing, given that my main source in Enneagram is Naranjo's version ( even though I don't take his writing literally like some people usually do ) , and there's still no E8 book
As for E9 , an excellent typist who typed me a long time ago said I'm E9 but couldn't decide a Subtype because I seem to relate to all E9 Subtypes, this typist know both Naranjo and Ichazo versions
Maybe I should read Enneagram books again
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I think that the biggest typing mistake I've ever done is thinking I'm E7
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I don't like correlations between systems very much but if I'm going to take them into account, I'm sure of being 1F more than anything else in my PY type , 1F suits E9 better , and I'm more of a process-oriented V , it's unlikely for me to be 1V , and therefore, to be E8
The same 1V thing is also a reason why I'm not a 7So , in addition to some other considerations of course
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I agree ! I don't like to justify or refute a typing in a given system with a typing from another system. That said, I would say that a certain level of consistency in the typings of the same subject in different systems should be expected. I now prefer to avoid the rather categorical word "correlation" between different typology since that word implies a 1:1 ratio which as we all know, can't be achieved given the asymmetry inherent to cross-typology.
I would add that it is easier to substantiate a typing with a Model Based typology typing like socionics than with a description based typology like Enneagram. Indeed, the former is less vulnerable to subjectivity (or at least should be in theory....) than the latter imho. You don't necessarily need biographical data to type a subject in socionics, in Enneagram you kinda need some because Enneagram has a more pronounced inclination towards psychology, you can see that in the enneatype genesis narrative. I would add that typing in Enneagramm requires more time (or sessions) than socionics for the aforementioned reasons.
It seems like in some Enneagram litterature the enneatype is acquired rather than inborned. One last observation, knowing your Enneatype doesn't open as much perspectives as knowing your sociotype imho because socionics has a sociological component (ITR, "social mission" etc..) whereas Enneagramm focuses exclusively on the subject and its development within the boundaries of the Enneagram types development trajectory (which seems quite linear).
Okay, Enough of digressions ! Sorry about that (and thank you for allowing me to generate some thoughts as I was writing this !).
Lack is the Muse of all Poets
It's not necessarily a "description based typology." To me, the whole idea behind the Enneagram is to identify and become aware of your main fixation to transcend it, because that fixation is the core your whole ego or false self is built around thus it's the origin of the inner turmoil and tension between this false self and the real you. By letting this fixation go, the ego collapses, the struggle between it and your higher self ends and you naturally regain the purity of consciousness of your inner infant.
It doesn't matter which author's "type images" you like the most, they're all flawed, and if you type yourself by trying to decide which type's assumed traits and superficial speculations about its coping mechanisms you "relate to" the most, it won't help you much, and using wings, tritypes, etc. to round the edges and to add extra shades to generic descriptions to make it more fitting just obscures the intended purpose of the Enneagram or even worse, you might unconsciously start piecing together all these ideas in a way to create a maze of nuances for your narrative about yourself which ultimately just fortifies your false self even more and that's the complete opposite of breaking it down and liberating yourself.
Thank you for your time.
I like Enneagram, in fact I like typology in general. That said, as you know, an interest in typology doesn't necessarily implies some kind of immediat conversion or adherence to whatever premicises, Ideas and concepts a given typology has developed. We would all agree that in Enneagram there are no "revealed truth" or "Holy scripture" coming from a higher instance that has been transmitted by transcendent means to some kind of Prophet or Guru, right ? It just has a rather pronounced "new-age" side.
Now, why would I accept that there is a "false self" to begin with ? In fact since Enneagram has 9 types, I assume that there are 9 types of "false self". Each type having its own "inner turmoil and tension". I mean, why do all the people of the world have to suffer from some kind of universal existential condition (yes 1 out of 9 is enough to call it universal at the human population scale !) ? Can't there be some "healthy" people ?
I've said not long ago that to me, Enneagram Types descriptions seem to depict teenagers in crisis. Indeed, it would make some sense to see it that way since in general the first followers of a spiritual mouvement are usually very young. It was true for Jesus disciples and also true for aṣ-ṣaḥāba in early Islam. Personally, I've always been suspicious towards people who tell you that you're "sick" but not to worry because they have the cure (yet we've all read Freud !). I mean, that theme is as old as humanity itself.
Seriously though, just look at the bold and red part I emphasized. Even if I'm playing the devil's advocate right now, one must admit that there is a lot of precepts to swallow . Btw, what do you mean by "the ego collapses" ? That sounds like a "Finish Him !" Fatality in Mortal Kombat ! It reminds me of the decompression sickness . Ego collapsing seems like the ultimate psychic decompensation, the "Psycho-bends" !
I think that to me my personal development path might be reversed, my problem is to let go of my inner child !
I see what you mean. It's quite an original take on the of confirmation bias applied to Enneagram and how counterproductive it might be subject to this kind of defence mechanism. That said, you give a lot advices about the errors to not commit without giving the right approach or at least another way to reach a correct typing. You are basically telling that it doesn't make sense to use peripheral artifices to square a circle, fair enough, but how can one type oneself in Enneagram then ? If you can't rely on authors' type images, nor on generic descriptions (including the core motivation, holly idea, fixation etc..) then on what metric or technic can you rely ?It doesn't matter which author's "type images" you like the most, they're all flawed, and if you type yourself by trying to decide which type's assumed traits and superficial speculations about its coping mechanisms you "relate to" the most, it won't help you much, and using wings, tritypes, etc. to round the edges and to add extra shades to generic descriptions to make it more fitting just obscures the intended purpose of the Enneagram or even worse, you might unconsciously start piecing together all these ideas in a way to create a maze of nuances for your narrative about yourself which ultimately just fortifies your false self even more and that's the complete opposite of breaking it down and liberating yourself.
Anyway, your post was very interesting and original, thank you again. (...and please excuse my little silly jokes !).
Lack is the Muse of all Poets
@godslave You mean detailed data right ? biographical data has nothing to do with typing in both systemsYou don't necessarily need biographical data to type a subject in socionics
Anyway , I think a person needs a lot of data for typing in both systems, not just Enneagram, but the kind of data differs between the two systems : socionics needs data related to functions, while Enneagram needs data related to behaviors and motivations
Of course, it's still possible to type a person based on a small questionnaire or a few information , it's common to do so , but imho the quality of the result won't be the same as the quality of the result which is based on more data
As far as I know, there is no agreement about this , some say it is genetic ( just like some say in socionics ), others say it's acquired , and there is a third opinion that there are genetic predispositions, but later circumstances and environment play the biggest roleIt seems like in some Enneagram litterature the enneatype is acquired rather than inborned.
There doesn't seem to be agreement in socionics about this either, although most consider it genetic
I can understand where you're coming from , but at the expense of these features there are more obstacles , after knowing your Enneagram you need self-control to improve your behavior ( not easy for everyone though) while after knowing your sociotype you need your dual to improve your low functions , and to find it you have to learn to recognize how their functions come off irl ، and not to confuse it with undesirable types like SuperEgo or Conflictor , then you have to approach them , and don't forget to exclude all factors unrelated to the type that would affect the nature of the relationship ,etc , and if you could overcome all of this , but you both can't for any reason get married to stay together, may God help you when you both move away and lose contact due to circumstancesOne last observation, knowing your Enneatype doesn't open as much perspectives as knowing your sociotype imho because socionics has a sociological component (ITR, "social mission" etc..) whereas Enneagramm focuses exclusively on the subject and its development within the boundaries of the Enneagram types development trajectory (which seems quite linear).
no problemOkay, Enough of digressions ! Sorry about that (and thank you for allowing me to generate some thoughts as I was writing this !).
Souls know their way back home
Re: nature vs nuture with personality manifestation.
Is it both?
Try a thought experiment with you and your siblings in the same environment.
You will see different enneagram types, and notice yourself in how you felt about your inner person, was it stable, like now?
I suspect that it is nature exclusively, otherwise having 2 sociotypes of the same stripe, in same location would give a homogeneous result.
If environment shaped E types, there should be a correlation with stimuli in how you manifest the 9 types.
Is there one?
Black & white is a shallow divide ∕∕division is the color that multipliesx
Taking things at face value is good only for a spell⛧
Abstract builds a soul, a house can never become a home without it ♀
A little better makes better more>
♦♦
I once joked with a friend : I told them that if I ended up being 5 in Ichazo's version, I would undoubtedly tell others (especially the community that follows Naranjo) that I am 9 instead, and keep 5 to myself in order to avoid being literally compared to the descriptions of 5 since I don't really relate to them in Naranjo version
Anyway, after reading Ichazo's version a little more I got convinced that I'm more of a 5 or 6 fixer not a 7 fixer as I previously thought
I also read parts of 7So and I ruled out being it because I have completely different motives from them, also , comparing myself with several 7s I know, both friends and personalities who are definitely that Subtype, and how 7So manifests in their behavior, writings and thoughts, I think I'm far from being that
Last edited by Biscuit; 05-25-2024 at 01:44 PM.
Souls know their way back home
Back to cognitive functions
I answered the entire SCS questionnaire except for Si (I started answering it recently ) and Ni
I had difficulty with two questions about Fi and a question about Ne, except for that, everything was easy and / or ok
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Ichazo's E2 sounds like a stereotypical version of E8 in other Enneagram versions, except that E2 is between being and not being dependent on others
Of all the numbers of the heart center , I relate to E2 the most , though I still lack a lot ( and in a literal sense a lot ) of vanity, inflated self, pride, narcissism and flirting in order to be a real 2
I also don't think I'm a heart core , given that :
1-I have no problems with my father neither in childhood nor in adolescence, not even nowadays, quite the contrary, my relationship with my dad is the best of all my relationships with family members, even with the fact that we are very different ( Ichazo's version assumes that in childhood each center had a problem with one of the characters : father, mother or peers , unlike Naranjo's version, whose students identified specific problems that each subtype of Enneagram - and not every Center - might have with parents )
2- (and it's the most important because the first is more in the unconscious and the Enneagram may be formed based on one situation that was misinterpreted and then forgotten by the person) that I don't care much about my image or base my personality on it much , Heart Center problems are not really my problems
Anyway, I still relate to the point of feeling the need to establish relationships with others
As for E3 and E4 , there are a few lines that I relate to , but the general idea of E3 ( a person who tries to compensate for his feeling of Father's absence by deceiving and creating an attractive and eye-catching image ) and E4 ( a person who over-analyzes and rationalizes ) and their fixation is a bit far from me , I relate to E3 more than E4 though , although it's not really like me
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Sometimes I really wonder why I'm not an Ep
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I type you same type as Rusal but a Harmie @Squirrel
If you are ESI, reading Stratiyevskaya's description would help because:
1. She's ESI, and she goes into great details to explain things which ESI needs.
2. The type of her information fits how gammas understand the world
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...Stratiyevskaya
If you don't feel connected with what she writes you may not be ESI. But remember there's also the West/Russian cultural difference and generational difference so it's not going to be 100% right for you.
Also ESIs from my observation tend to take a long time, asking everyone, in searching for the "right answer" for life decisions big and small. So that's an indication.
For SLIs, not sure whose descriptions are better. But there are many delta socionics experts and you can just read different ones. I know some SLIs mistype themselves as EII because of stereotypes.
It's been a very long time since the last time I read for her
Gonna check it , thanks
I'm Syrian , neither Russian nor Western, and I don't know much about the cultural differences between my culture and Russian culture, although I studied Russian as a third language at schoolIf you don't feel connected with what she writes you may not be ESI. But remember there's also the West/Russian cultural difference and generational difference so it's not going to be 100% right for you.
I haven't ever paid attention to generational differences though, thanks for alerting me to it
As for ESI , I got typed as ESI twice but when it comes to Fi dom my perception of other people's feelings largely depends on their facial expressions, body language and behaviours , if someone shows the opposite of what he expresses, I wouldn't think at all that he isn't in the mood that he showed , this is more of S or Fe approach to understand feelings , while Fi egos are more able to absorb the depths of feelings
I found out about this from some irl situations , and it clearly appeared in my answers to SCS questionnaire
There is another point about moral judgments, but I prefer not to mention it because knowing it may lead to hurting me / trying to manipulate me or accusing me / doubting that I might do things that I won't do no matter what
This is especially common with attachment triad ( 9,6,3 ) , you probably met someAlso ESIs from my observation tend to take a long time, asking everyone, in searching for the "right answer" for life decisions big and small. So that's an indication.
However, I expect ESIs to have a lot of questions in the technical areas and how to do things properly, both of which aren't something I ask about irl
I rarely read descriptions tbh , most of descriptions are based on observations of a few people of the same type, not widely or necessarily based on cognitive functions reallyFor SLIs, not sure whose descriptions are better. But there are many delta socionics experts and you can just read different ones. I know some SLIs mistype themselves as EII because of stereotypes.
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I forgot to say it yesterday, but I finished SCS questionnaire
The hardest section to answer for me was Ni section , indisputably
Sometimes I don't understand what the question is about, sometimes I'm not sure I understand what the question is about , sometimes I don't care about the whole thing the question is asking , and sometimes I don't even have the desire to answer
My whole attitude about the questions was " meh , who cares , couldn't care less , dunno the answer , can I skip this? "
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Then no Rusal. Ni
Interesting revelation btw, via her.
Top line is banter, btw.
Just want to explain, a lot goes over head here on forum.
Black & white is a shallow divide ∕∕division is the color that multipliesx
Taking things at face value is good only for a spell⛧
Abstract builds a soul, a house can never become a home without it ♀
A little better makes better more>
♦♦
For the rest of the sections :
Ti and Si were the easiest, but in case of Si sometimes at first I don't have an answer to the question in my head, and then I have a random idea and while writing and discussing it, everything flows into my head and I answer the question easily
Fe was easy but mostly dependent on what I hear / notice / experience
Te was easy to moderate
Ne and Se were easy too , but I had more difficulties with Ne than Se
Fi , well ... some of the questions were answerable to me , but others were a headache in the head, but to a lesser extent than Ni , I was completely talking about my own experiences , but the difference between Fi and Fe is that in Fe, when I had no previous experience in the scope of the question , I could still guess and talk a little and give a personal opinion , but in Fi ... the only way to answer is to give a general , non detailed and not comprehensive answer
for example a part of a question was :
What makes a person desirable? Is this the norm? Are some people more deserving of these than others? Why or why not?
I answered " what makes a person desirable " and it was from my memory about what Sol talked about how ITR work , but I don't even know what the "norm" is in this area?" I know what attracts me, but I don't know what others consider attractive, all that was in my head at that time was a scene from memory when I saw two girls looking with admiration and attention at a tall man walking in front of them, but this is more about physical beauty and not about desirable qualities in a person
So , I answered like this :
There are some traits that are accepted by everyone, of course, but I don't think everyone is necessarily looking for them, even if they are desirable
Of course, there is an elite for everything , so, of course, there are people who are loved and desired more than others, even if they don't necessarily deserve it because of hidden traits they have, such as narcissism, for example
Last edited by Biscuit; 06-07-2024 at 02:57 PM.
Souls know their way back home