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Thread: Why are many LIIs (INTj) self-destructive?

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    G AI's Avatar
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    After decades of living an ascetic life of severe self-discipline and abstention from all forms of indulgence, unrestrained hedonism is very appealing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by G AI View Post
    After decades of living an ascetic life of severe self-discipline and abstention from all forms of indulgence, unrestrained hedonism is very appealing.
    Well, you got that right. My only suggestion is to do the "unrestrained hedonism" when you are young and your body is resilient.

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    @End

    I won't deny I have those tendencies. I felt I had to "manage" my family when I was growing up, which probably influenced my perspective. The problem is that I don't see much reason to change my perspective. In all the times I've had moments of weakness and lowered my guard, it hasn't gone well for me. I did use to be fairly manipulative, but I don't think I am anymore or have been for a long time; that was borne out of a position of complete powerlessness and naivety, whereas now I just try to be left alone and unbothered, and don't have the patience or hope to try getting particular results from people.

    I think that most people don't have much foresight and either don't know what they want, or act simply according to self-interest in a particular moment, so if they're friendly to you, it doesn't mean much, since they'll betray you the instant it's in their interest to do that. I've experienced this several times, so I don't think it's an unrealistic belief. I am not charismatic or rich or have much else I can provide to people to make them stick around, and I'm not really interested in fair-weather friendliness.

    Re. good faith and psychopathy, what you're calling "good faith" is the problem. People do engage psychopaths in "good faith;" this is something else I've seen a lot, and psychopaths tend to do well for themselves as a result. As I said, people are motivated by self-interest, and psychopaths have a lot of energy and a lot to offer people. People only turn against them when the psychopath personally hurts them. They either don't notice or don't care how other people get treated, no matter how "wonderful," or spiritual or kind or whatever else they seem to be. But I have to operate from a position of weakness, so I can't attract people in the first place.

    The only people I've ever been able to talk to are those who are able to use me for something, or are weak themselves which has made them "weird"/given them certain insight into people. I think that's just how the world works. In any case, I don't think it's a good idea to run around expecting normies to solve your problems. If I can make a single friend, I'll be fine.
    Last edited by FreelancePoliceman; 06-29-2024 at 12:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I wish every Dismissive-Avoidant could read this post and would put it into practice.
    The world would be a better place.
    There is the major problem of people being unaware of what Attachment issues/theory even is. I am trying to get more people to know of and understand it because it really does answer a whole lot of soul destroying questions.

    My conspiracy theory of "Cures vs. Treatments" rings true here hardest of all. Psych meds and Miserable People are big business. Fixing attachment is a "cure" and thus is a one and done. Plus those with secure attachment are pretty friggin' hard to manipulate with Bernaysian BS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    There is the major problem of people being unaware of what Attachment issues/theory even is. I am trying to get more people to know of and understand it because it really does answer a whole lot of soul destroying questions.

    My conspiracy theory of "Cures vs. Treatments" rings true here hardest of all. Psych meds and Miserable People are big business. Fixing attachment is a "cure" and thus is a one and done. Plus those with secure attachment are pretty friggin' hard to manipulate with Bernaysian BS.
    Oh I learned the hard way... But to be fair to me, I always had an intuitive understanding of it from a young age anyway. But formally, I learned AFTER when I needed to. But that life, right? A process of becoming and some times wisdom is bought and paid with your own blood, you know? I went through a difficult relationship and break up that forced me to look at my own attachment style, and also traumas and coping strategies over the years. I thought I understood myself so well, until I went through that relationship and learned their is still a long way to go. But I'm getting there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    Oh I learned the hard way... But to be fair to me, I always had an intuitive understanding of it from a young age anyway. But formally, I learned AFTER when I needed to. But that life, right? A process of becoming and some times wisdom is bought and paid with your own blood, you know? I went through a difficult relationship and break up that forced me to look at my own attachment style, and also traumas and coping strategies over the years. I thought I understood myself so well, until I went through that relationship and learned their is still a long way to go. But I'm getting there.
    Same for me. I thought I had it all figured out until it became painfully obvious that I didn't. Then I had to start finding new answers.

    Kinda sucked that the answers weren't supported by the mainstream but in retrospect I shouldn't have been all that shocked. Again, cures vs. treatments. Cures are cheap compared to treatments and our current medical establishment is all about serving Mammon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    @End

    I won't deny I have those tendencies. I felt I had to "manage" my family when I was growing up, which probably influenced my perspective. The problem is that I don't see much reason to change my perspective. In all the times I've had moments of weakness and lowered my guard, it hasn't gone well for me. I did use to be fairly manipulative, but I don't think I am anymore or have been for a long time; that was borne out of a position of complete powerlessness and naivety, whereas now I just try to be left alone and unbothered, and don't have the patience or hope to try getting particular results from people.

    I think that most people don't have much foresight and either don't know what they want, or act simply according to self-interest in a particular moment, so if they're friendly to you, it doesn't mean much, since they'll betray you the instant it's in their interest to do that. I've experienced this several times, so I don't think it's an unrealistic belief. I am not charismatic or rich or have much else I can provide to people to make them stick around, and I'm not really interested in fair-weather friendliness.

    Re. good faith and psychopathy, what you're calling "good faith" is the problem. People do engage psychopaths in "good faith;" this is something else I've seen a lot, and psychopaths tend to do well for themselves as a result. As I said, people are motivated by self-interest, and psychopaths have a lot of energy and a lot to offer people. People only turn against them when the psychopath personally hurts them. They either don't notice or don't care how other people get treated, no matter how "wonderful," or spiritual or kind or whatever else they seem to be. But I have to operate from a position of weakness, so I can't attract people in the first place.

    The only people I've ever been able to talk to are those who are able to use me for something, or are weak themselves which has made them "weird"/given them certain insight into people. I think that's just how the world works. In any case, I don't think it's a good idea to run around expecting normies to solve your problems. If I can make a single friend, I'll be fine.
    I mean no offense when I say this, but knowing that I am this way also and seeing it written out this way I can kinda see how ridiculous and unreasonable I am. This seems sorta delusional to believe that people are always plotting in this way, even though I walk around protecting myself like that's the case. Like it feels very, self obsessed to think like this. Outta touch with reality. Trapped in your own fear like a prison but in reality people don't give a damn enough about you to be plotting on you unless you do have something to offer like being really rich, otherwise people are just being social cuz idk boredom, dopamine, instincts, to have a better time, etc. Also Fe and possibly other contact IEs. This idea that the world is out to always get you is kinda ridiculous, I'm also speaking to myself here. I think it's really our mindset that is the enemy. An enemy that we think protects us. Probably alot less than we believe though.

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    I mean no offense when I say this, but knowing that I am this way also and seeing it written out this way I can kinda see how ridiculous and unreasonable I am. This seems sorta delusional to believe that people are always plotting in this way, even though I walk around protecting myself like that's the case. Like it feels very, self obsessed to think like this. Outta touch with reality. Trapped in your own fear like a prison but in reality people don't give a damn enough about you to be plotting on you unless you do have something to offer like being really rich, otherwise people are just being social cuz idk boredom, dopamine, instincts, to have a better time, etc. Also Fe and possibly other contact IEs. This idea that the world is out to always get you is kinda ridiculous, I'm also speaking to myself here. I think it's really our mindset that is the enemy. An enemy that we think protects us. Probably alot less than we believe though.
    I think you've misunderstood me. I didn't say and I don't think anyone's out to get me or you. Unless you've really pissed someone off maybe. The majority of people don't "plot." It's just that they do what's best for themselves in the moment.

    in reality people don't give a damn enough about you to be plotting on you unless you do have something to offer like being really rich,
    That's exactly what I'm saying. People don't care about anything unless they stand to gain something. If you don't have much to give, it's natural and reasonable to be slightly paranoid about losing it.

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    Yea maybe I interpreted what you said through my own struggles. Still it helped e get some clarity so thanks even though you didn't mean what I thought you meant.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    I think you've misunderstood me. I didn't say and I don't think anyone's out to get me or you. Unless you've really pissed someone off maybe. The majority of people don't "plot." It's just that they do what's best for themselves in the moment.



    That's exactly what I'm saying. People don't care about anything unless they stand to gain something. If you don't have much to give, it's natural and reasonable to be slightly paranoid about losing it.
    Yea but if you don't have much to give then people aren't trying to take what you've got. It's people with status and money that have to worry about leeches. People look for the much. If anything those with not much to give get looked over.

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