Results 1 to 24 of 24

Thread: Befriending EII

  1. #1
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Location
    Europe
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    161
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Befriending EII

    Recently I've been acquainted with someone who is more than likely EII. How do I create a positive image of myself in their eyes? Our outlook on the world is completely different.

  2. #2
    sp854 Muira's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2023
    Location
    in ur mom
    TIM
    SCS: SLE sp8w7
    Posts
    1,832
    Mentioned
    50 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
    Recently I've been acquainted with someone who is more than likely EII. How do I create a positive image of myself in their eyes? Our outlook on the world is completely different.
    Be more open to different perspectives, have direct communications, keep language formal and refrain from using derogatory language.

    Say positive words, but also keep true to your words.

    Try to be as competent as possible as well, that's how you keep a good image towards anyone really.

  3. #3
    Hot Scalding Gayser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    The evolved form of Warm Soapy Water
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    14,931
    Mentioned
    662 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Be firm and business like. Think: strict and stern and moralistic LSE courtroom judge or administrative leader. Deltas especially value congruency, they like when speech and intention and thought and action are all aligned. Like how Betas say "sup whore" affectionately to somebody else - they don't like that, because they think you're really degrading somebody and seriously calling them a whore, and a whore is not something we should be as members of society. IEEs might accept it but still kinda look down on it, but not sure EII would like that.

    God socionics is stupid I'm sure I will get an EII telling me they don't mind the sup whore thing- but then they aren't EII, they are really Beta! Like how Maritsa is really EIE and not EII, right? /hides before pouring the gasoline on the fire.

  4. #4
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    15,766
    Mentioned
    1404 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
    How do I create a positive image of myself in their eyes?
    Say that your income is higher than average, stable and your perspectives are even better. If it's true, certainly.

    > Our outlook on the world is completely different.

    Then no hope.

  5. #5
    sp854 Muira's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2023
    Location
    in ur mom
    TIM
    SCS: SLE sp8w7
    Posts
    1,832
    Mentioned
    50 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Warm Soapy Water View Post
    Be firm and business like. Think: strict and stern and moralistic LSE courtroom judge or administrative leader. Deltas especially value congruency, they like when speech and intention and thought and action are all aligned. Like how Betas say "sup whore" affectionately to somebody else - they don't like that, because they think you're really degrading somebody and seriously calling them a whore, and a whore is not something we should be as members of society. IEEs might accept it but still kinda look down on it, but not sure EII would like that.

    God socionics is stupid I'm sure I will get an EII telling me they don't mind the sup whore thing- but then they aren't EII, they are really Beta! Like how Maritsa is really EIE and not EII, right? /hides before pouring the gasoline on the fire.
    Oh lol, My boyfriend always gets upset whenever my friends use offensive language with me. He tried to defend me once because he didn't understand that my friends were just playing around with me, but it was admirable either way. Dead ass I get called out by my boyfriend a lot, but he teaches me things that otherwise, I'd never even think about. He is definitely EII.

  6. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Location
    Europe
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    161
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Virtuoso @Warm Soapy Water @Sol

    This one I have met is very open and "hippy"-like, live and let live kind of person. Establishing business relations is impossible, as they already know I am not regularly employed and get by through 'other' means. I tried to get them to open up about their worldview and beliefs, but this often ends up with them having to stop the conversation topic in the middle because they no longer wish to continue. I enjoy picking apart peoples' thinking, whereas my EII says I have an argumentative mindset and purposefully holds their tongue to 'keep the peace'. Of course, what they call 'argumentation' to me is normal conversation! (and often the most meaningful kind!)

    I know another Delta NF, and noticed that always seem to be rather 'artsy' people and can be very idiosyncratic in their apprearence and quite liberal in their attitudes. Despite this they are always well adjusted people, employed, and motivated to do their 'job', it leaves me gobsmacked, like stepping into a bizarro world where people enjoy having their time managed for them!

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    1,418
    Mentioned
    64 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
    @Virtuoso @Warm Soapy Water @Sol

    This one I have met is very open and "hippy"-like, live and let live kind of person. Establishing business relations is impossible, as they already know I am not regularly employed and get by through 'other' means. I tried to get them to open up about their worldview and beliefs, but this often ends up with them having to stop the conversation topic in the middle because they no longer wish to continue. I enjoy picking apart peoples' thinking, whereas my EII says I have an argumentative mindset and purposefully holds their tongue to 'keep the peace'. Of course, what they call 'argumentation' to me is normal conversation! (and often the most meaningful kind!)

    I know another Delta NF, and noticed that always seem to be rather 'artsy' people and can be very idiosyncratic in their apprearence and quite liberal in their attitudes. Despite this they are always well adjusted people, employed, and motivated to do their 'job', it leaves me gobsmacked, like stepping into a bizarro world where people enjoy having their time managed for them!
    Yes, and they don't want their thinking picked apart. I would and have in the past reacted the same exact way.

    And for once I agree with @Sol, no hope. EII is live and let live, but Ij temperament is very stubborn about worldview and clashes with people who have completely different worldviews. Like to Ij, worldview is serious business, it's not something they just subscribe to or theorize about, it's life. If they are liberal and you are conservative, they feel like they are being a hypocrite just being around you, and it's not up for discussion why they believe this and you believe that, it's "get away from me you heathen.". (< extreme example) If they like you as a person, but don't agree with your world view, they'd rather the two of you not talk about it at all because for them it's a conversation that can get emotionally charged really quick, not a casual conversation on a Sunday. So yea no hope.
    Last edited by Lord Pixel; 05-19-2023 at 09:37 PM.

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Location
    Europe
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    161
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    Yes, and they don't want their thinking picked apart.
    That is very unfortunate because that is what I spend most of my time doing! To me, this is even an icebreaker. To put into light all of the contentious viewpoints because it is the best way for me to learn about what an individual is about. When I call them liberal I don't mean a political party I mean in temperament, i.e sanctity of the individual, liberty, property rights, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    it's not up for discussion why they believe this and you believe that
    It is the 'why' that is most important!! The devil is in the details. You can come to two opposite conclusions using identical reasoning. Two people can be composed of the same parts, but their attitude towards an object can be completely different because they have different experiences, and two people can hold the same view but their reasoning behind the view can be complete opposites!

  9. #9
    Hot Scalding Gayser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    The evolved form of Warm Soapy Water
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    14,931
    Mentioned
    662 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't trust the hippie thing, I met a lot of hippies who seemed to have live and let live attitude but in reality were actually as judgy as any blonde Republican soccer mom that works on FoX News with 2.5 kids. It's just this pretentious veil.

    Typical Deltard, they pretend to be hippies or liberal activists but they are actually closed off when you try to explain them something different and have to play power play games with u where they always feel like the most self-righteous one.

    I wouldn't necessarily care about befriending them or trying to look positive in their eyes cuz it will probably mean you will have to just be somebody you are not, then the Delta would take like egotistical credit that they helped u change for the better, and not even see it as a relationship thing that u want.

  10. #10
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Location
    Europe
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    161
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Warm Soapy Water
    Oh we were doing well when we first met, initially I thought he was ILI. He was always the first one to initiate contact but over time this has weened-off and it happened after I really began opening my mouth haha.


    By the way, how have you been doing Shazam? Mentally, emotionally, spiritually?

  11. #11
    haikus necrosebud's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    1,557
    Mentioned
    95 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I wouldn’t push the whole picking apart argumentation thing

    the weakness in weaker functions (S and T) is not having the words to defend your viewpoint logically or based on concrete perception if you will, or not very well, and if he/she is indeed “EII” ie Se PoLR then having it picked apart is not appealing or it wouldn’t be to me and it seems to be the case based on what you said

    you asked how you can be nice appeal to the EII so I would personally start here

    but you know what lol as I am writing this.. he/she might pick up even if you hold back perhaps leaving both of your dissatisfied
    pinterest
    EII-1Ne | CH | ELVF | 4(w5)96 sx/so

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    1,418
    Mentioned
    64 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
    That is very unfortunate because that is what I spend most of my time doing! To me, this is even an icebreaker. To put into light all of the contentious viewpoints because it is the best way for me to learn about what an individual is about. When I call them liberal I don't mean a political party I mean in temperament, i.e sanctity of the individual, liberty, property rights, etc.


    It is the 'why' that is most important!! The devil is in the details. You can come to two opposite conclusions using identical reasoning. Two people can be composed of the same parts, but their attitude towards an object can be completely different because they have different experiences, and two people can hold the same view but their reasoning behind the view can be complete opposites!
    This sounds all great and dandy, but I'm telling you for Ijs this is not the case. For Ijs, worldview is a deep seated foundation that has roots clinging onto something too deep in the ground to be unearthed by casual conversation in the way that you talk about it, and any attempt to uproot their worldviews they will not have it. They feel like the "why" they believe what they believe is very personal and none of your business.

    For example if they are staunchly vegan, and you start trying to pick that apart, you're not gonna get some intellectual discussion about veganism, you'll get maybe some talking points but it'll most likely result in, "Because I think murdering animals is wrong! Ok?! Now drop it!". They will not feel the need to explain themselves to you whatsoever, especially with Fi, Ti might be more into that and you seem to have a more Ti approach. Any talk about beliefs will probably only come out to play with other like minded people. They will put out feelers to see if you are like minded, once they find out you are not, next topic.

    Imagine trying to break an iceberg as an icebreaker, that's what you are dealing with. Sol's right, No Hope.
    Last edited by Lord Pixel; 05-19-2023 at 11:42 PM.

  13. #13
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Location
    Europe
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    161
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    @necrosebud
    I don't mind holding back, I have to do that regardless. Most people do not enjoy my discussion topics, and I have been told before I always discuss the same thing over and over again. When people don't want to listen to my nonsense then I just listen to them instead. I can always come up with something new from what someone else shares, but it can be difficult when they are not so talkative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    "Because I think murdering animals is wrong! Ok?! Now drop it!".
    @Lord Pixel
    This reminds me of a discussion we had on the topic of 'freedom', and how much 'freedom' individuals ought to be allotted. For him, it was 'as much freedom as possible without limiting the freedom of others'. I would go on to say how this contradicts itself as freedom is not a scale from high to low but complex with a multitude of variables as a restriction of one kind of 'freedom' on one part can allow liberty in some another area. I also tried pushing why this conception of freedom did not extend to non-human animals!

    So what do I talk about with EIIs then? What do they like to discuss and what kind of activities do they enjoy doing?

  14. #14
    Hot Scalding Gayser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    The evolved form of Warm Soapy Water
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    14,931
    Mentioned
    662 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
    @Warm Soapy Water
    Oh we were doing well when we first met, initially I thought he was ILI. He was always the first one to initiate contact but over time this has weened-off and it happened after I really began opening my mouth haha.


    By the way, how have you been doing Shazam? Mentally, emotionally, spiritually?
    My week was kinda rough but I'm better now. I hope I didn't offend u with what I wrote about him - I was worried I was being too harsh. It was more my anger at the hippie veil thing and what a certain IEE I know does than your person lol.

  15. #15
    Doctor of Socionics First Class Socionics Is Not A Cult's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    290
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Save a kitten from a tree or put out a house fire.

  16. #16

    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    1,418
    Mentioned
    64 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
    @necrosebud


    So what do I talk about with EIIs then? What do they like to discuss and what kind of activities do they enjoy doing?
    Cant really answer this. Is there a single thing IEIs as a whole like talking about and like doing?

    They are perfectly fine listening to you talk about what you find interesting and will ask questions about it to find out what you find interesting about it and they will try to step into your perspective to find the interest aswell, but they won't try to pick apart why you find it interesting, they are really after just hearing you express yourself about the things you like, regardless of what it is unless they find it repulsive or against their own worldview.

    You like knitting? Wow cool, what do you like about it? Oh that you can make cool sweaters for hamsters, wow I never thought about using knitting to make clothes for hamsters, that's different, that's interesting. They don't wanna kill the vibe by asking "Why do you think hamsters need clothing? Their fur is perfectly fine for regulating their body temperature, the sweaters are probably at best a nuisance don't you think?". No, EII would most likely just contribute what they find interesting about it and express the things they personally find interesting, and it would just go back and forth that way. With like minded people they'd bring up worldview and bond over that.

    Actually I think EIIs in casual conversation, well Ne creative in general, like to discuss unusual things, like, Cappodocia, they have hotels in caves over there, what would it be like to live in a cool little cave like that *brain storm session ensues*. Or the Maldives, the water over there glows in the dark, you can leave glow in the dark messages in the water, what makes the water glow? What if you brought some back and sold it? Could start a glow in the dark water business. Or anything unusual Ne creative likes to wrap it's mind around it and play with the thoughts that arise. Weird recipes, like lemon-basil icecream, surprisingly good. But as an Ne-ignoring type I'd imagine this style of conversation would not interest you.

    I think best icebreaker for any Ne ego type is to bring up or point out something unusual and watch them take like a moth to a flame. "So I watched this Death Metal band do covers with helium on youtube the other day....." you probably won't even get to finish before they say "What?!"*grinning*.
    Last edited by Lord Pixel; 05-20-2023 at 01:50 AM.

  17. #17
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Location
    Europe
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    161
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Warm Soapy Water
    When is a week not rough?! The older I get the worse it becomes. No your comment didn't offend me, in my post history I probably wrote hippies ought to be shot or something like that HAHA. Delta NFs are an enigma to me, they are like
    bizzaro family friendly versions of Beta NF.

    @Lord Pixel
    No you've given me some pretty good ideas thank you! I will update this thread when new information comes to light.

  18. #18
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Location
    Europe
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    161
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    Is there a single thing IEIs as a whole like talking about and like doing?
    Yes. SLE.

  19. #19
    Metanoia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2022
    Location
    N/A
    Posts
    607
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Delta enjoy the lifestyle of being functional members of society. They're the personification of SpongeBob SquarePants if I ever saw them

    She's not acid nor alkaline
    Caught between black and white
    Not quite either day or night
    She's perfectly misaligned
    I'm caught up in her design
    And how it connects to mine.

    Ooh, let's talk about chemistry
    'Cause I'm dying to melt through
    To the heart of her molecules
    'Til the particles part like holy water
    If anything, she's an undiscovered element
    Either born in hell or heaven-sent
    But either way I'm into it

  20. #20

    Join Date
    Aug 2022
    TIM
    EII
    Posts
    261
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Just be yourself I guess, we can tell when you're trying to fake being something you're not just to please/get along with us and it can be off-putting. If it clicks, then proceed from there, if it doesn't, you likely won't be able to get very close to EIIs. Also, try not to be rude, impolite, and it should be fine.

  21. #21
    Minde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Amongst the stars
    TIM
    EII/INFj E9w1sp
    Posts
    4,451
    Mentioned
    148 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I agree with the "picking apart of arguments" being unappealing to an EII. That said, exploring ideas (and the reasons behind them) is not antithetical to them, either. Approach matters.

    One trick might be to note how they ask questions and express curiosity and mimic it. That way you will be more likely to "use their language" and not accidentally interject something off-putting. For friendly relations, EII usually seek out relational safety before they get too vulnerable and open (and being Ti role, breaking down logic is a vulnerability they would want help with, not critique over). If you're genuinely curious and not just out to prove them wrong, in principle that's something I think an EII would like. Emphasize the "curious" and not the "wrong."

    As an NF yourself, you have the ability to express softness and empathy, which will gel with an EII. Leaning into the shared club (NFs) will help with communication.

    Good luck and that's cool that you're wanting to utilize socionics to assist with relating! Make sure you take breaks to go be your Beta self with other Betas, too.
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

  22. #22
    Metanoia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2022
    Location
    N/A
    Posts
    607
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Probably keep your crude opinions to yourself. These types of people pride themselves on following the golden rule, so be polite and non-abrasive. They're sensitive, wallflower types in my eyes. They can be irritating, though, they always try to burden themselves with your emotional problems. Polite, keep your distance, and follow your goals and reasoning.

  23. #23
    Metanoia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2022
    Location
    N/A
    Posts
    607
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    They are too soft in my eyes but I admire it. It's odd though. A lot of people seem to enjoy their presence, trust them even, they have a way of working with people but I see past it all the time. They can teach you to forgive yourself and others, they can also teach you how to be more kind to yourself.

  24. #24
    Metanoia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2022
    Location
    N/A
    Posts
    607
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Bro right. They always want to change you, make a whole ass relationship that they want. Why can't you just accept someone for their everything and enjoy the moments you have with someone. They love self improvement, but fail to experience life in the now.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •