pls help me type this guy in my grade level

[anotherperson]

okay okay so maybe im a little young but i gotta know this guy in my schools sociotype. Hes in a few of my classes and I find him kind of annoying most of the time, but I'm also jealous of him. Heres what I know about him.

-Does not adjust to emotional atmosphere, rather creats it himself
-often creates intellectual/moral arguments, but his moral system has my Fi disapproval
-agent of change. he has sent e-mailed complaints to the superintendent regarding our school
-most of the other students like him and think hes funny (i do not)
-i percieve him as being kind of invasive, he closes interpersonal distance very fast
-he poorly remembers details but can grasp the big picture. this is how he constructs convincing arguments
-if it couldnt be figured from the above, a social extravert
-sense of humour has a kind of bullyish slant, others see his lack of respect as charming
-poor impulse control
-generally well-controlled sense of style, but he himself admits some days he just throws on whatever
-when not being crass, is sugary and childlike
-does not show any proof that he knows i harbour resentment against him
-unafraid to bring in politics as an overarching theme

thats all i could come up with for now. but i will try to answer probing questions

[FreelancePoliceman]

What do you think about ESE or SEE?

[loopyclouds]

Reminds me of Uncle Roger, or more specifically, the person behind his character, Nigel Ng

[anotherperson]

maybe. but i cant tell if hes an intuitive or not. also if hes SEE wouldnt i tolerate him better? considering im ESI? or is that not how it works. I also think hes a Declaring type, if that helps. I had assumed Fe valuing but it could be Fi and just a difference in values. ESE could maybe fit but again, not sure

[Beautiful sky]

Adjusting and creating emotional atmosphere is both or can both be done by Fe valuing. They don’t necessarily have to continue in the same emotional state they can wield it however they want

[Sol]

give him a test
or give here his video interview

[lavos]

ENTp

[thistle]

It's difficult to tell. He does sound like an extroverted person who's readily making changes in his surrounding environment.
Do you instinctively avoid each other? That could potentially help figure out your relation. It's not clear in what you wrote whether he has approached or looked to you for a reaction.

[BrainlessSquid]

ILE - ENTp.
Childlike, agent of change (Ne concept if considered as external and objective change, that is progress), funny, "poor" Fi, big picture, and a few other things you mentioned

Another possibility is a IEE trying to come off as a thinking type, just like me in my teens

But the fact that he's a bullier points away from IEE

[anotherperson]

Do you instinctively avoid each other? That could potentially help figure out your relation. It's not clear in what you wrote whether he has approached or looked to you for a reaction.

im so aloof that most people look at me with indifference. hes one of them. he doesnt go out of his way to jab at me and he treats me indiscriminately. basically i dislike him a lot more than he dislikes me.

however, if i were to say anything "out of step", hed be one of the first to gang up on me, and with his ability to change his emotional atmosphere, others would follow his lead. i know this because the grade prior i was dealing with anxiety and psychotic experiences, and he called me "senile" and a "hobo". now i do not share any of my personal life with anyone and thus it's pretty hard to find anything to bully me over.

[thistle]

It makes sense that your dislike for him is far greater given he's bullied you in the past. It's not something that can be explained away by intertype relations.
The type of bullying he used to me seems like social shaming using labels, which Fe is more responsible for. Distinguishing you as "that group" or an "out group" and using "senile" inappropriately, exaggeratedly for effect.

My experience with Se-leading people is that the more aloof and detached you appear to be, the more they want to pop your bubble or get a sudden fright or laugh out of you. They are curious to find out what is ticking inside.

Exerting control over you so that you stay silent is more of an emotional manipulation, as is turning others against you. If you're going to have to be stuck in classes with him for a few more terms I agree its best not to let anything out about you and your inner life in his presence. My mum (who I think is ESI) would say "blank him, pretend he doesn't exist to you", which isn't really practical for a classroom setting...polite conversation as needed for the class, but nothing more.

[Beautiful sky]

Sounds like LSE
He speaks his mind and isn’t afraid of doing so

[anotherperson]

The type of bullying he used to me seems like social shaming using labels, which Fe is more responsible for. Distinguishing you as "that group" or an "out group" and using "senile" inappropriately, exaggeratedly for effect.

My experience with Se-leading people is that the more aloof and detached you appear to be, the more they want to pop your bubble or get a sudden fright or laugh out of you. They are curious to find out what is ticking inside.

so does that make him an Fe type? ESE, EIE? or does EIE Se hidden agenda cancel itself out?
he *could* be an ESE, his music taste (which he shares aloud and blasts from his amp) is very "good vibes heavy"; gives Si vibes. Popular artists with the usual tropes of pop music, love, synths, and celebrities.

and about Se wanting to poke and prod, i'm guilty of that myself. I am infatuated with aloof people.

[necrosebud]

LIE or ILE maybe

im not a fan of typing through these methods as there are at least two filters applied to the original ‘stuff’ - yours and mine… but I guess going off of the descriptions those types come to mind

[thistle]

so does that make him an Fe type? ESE, EIE? or does EIE Se hidden agenda cancel itself out?
he *could* be an ESE, his music taste (which he shares aloud and blasts from his amp) is very "good vibes heavy"; gives Si vibes. Popular artists with the usual tropes of pop music, love, synths, and celebrities.

and about Se wanting to poke and prod, i'm guilty of that myself. I am infatuated with aloof people.

No, it does not make him one of those two types. He seems to have boldness/confidence using Fe to influence others, though - Fe could be his creative or demonstrative function but he still sounds more extroverted to me - including the sharing of music aloud because that's a disruption of space (and peace...) There is crossover of music taste between people of vastly different types.

[anotherperson]

No, it does not make him one of those two types. He seems to have boldness/confidence using Fe to influence others, though - Fe could be his creative or demonstrative function but he still sounds more extroverted to me - including the sharing of music aloud because that's a disruption of space (and peace...) There is crossover of music taste between people of vastly different types.

do you think Fe could be in the "hidden agenda"? his way of getting the emotional atmosphere to swing his way is mainly through his boldness, he doesnt have the sort of "tactical pursuit" i think of when thinking Fe.

[thistle]

do you think Fe could be in the "hidden agenda"? his way of getting the emotional atmosphere to swing his way is mainly through his boldness, he doesnt have the sort of "tactical pursuit" i think of when thinking Fe.

If you suspect that he does not know that you resent him after he called you names, seen from that perspective he could have Fi as his blindspot.
When Fi is in that position its harder for a person to know where they stand with others without receiving feedback readily from Fe. By acting out he can see who is on his side, who likes him, based on their response to him.

Do you think it will help you understand or sympathise with him more, if you were to figure out his type?

[necrosebud]

If you suspect that he does not know that you resent him after he called you names, seen from that perspective he could have Fi as his blindspot.
When Fi is in that position its harder for a person to know where they stand with others without receiving feedback readily from Fe. By acting out he can see who is on his side, who likes him, based on their response to him.

Do you think it will help you understand or sympathise with him more, if you were to figure out his type?

I haven’t read your conversation with OP so it isn’t a comment on the person’s type but ime some Te leads are capable of acting against their own Fi suggestive, seeing it as antagonistic to their ‘superior’ if you will, logic. I can imagine LSE shutting down to any alternatives (weak Ne) and going by his own knowledge and experience in a very extreme sense, and an LIE so swept up by his intuition (Ne/Ni) he doesn’t realize what’s directly perceivable (Se) - that in fact Fi and Te are quite compatible.

you could almost mistake them for an Fi PoLR type but they might not be. Check this “pathologies” section from wikisocion

LSE (Stierlitz)

LSE (demonstrative-fixated): passion, perseverance, stubbornness, high indicators in work. Fruitless fights and struggles. May be at a height for a long period of time. Loud shouts, intransigence, ambition in the prime of life, authority at work, solid position at work, “escapes into sickness” counting on pity. In everyday life - high quality, denial of guilt, irritability, anger, elements of adventurism, shuts out the unpleasant, passion in actions and activities, disregard for ethics.

LIE (Jack London)
LIE (fixated): almost pathological resilience of affect. Vindictive and vengeful, does not take offense at minor things, but when his pride and honor are hurt is painfully touchy. Affects on the level of selfish motives. Strives for justice for himself, conceit, arrogance, ambition, confidence. Little reward, positive feedback, instead there are suspicions, jealousy, intractability, litigation, stubbornness, absorption into optimistic dreams, overvalued ideas, hard-headedness. No tendency for self-suggestion. Ambition - is an excellent drive to work and creative performance. In the early years characterized by outstanding achievements in various fields. Not one time starts from scratch and succeeds. Person of ideas. Constantly increasing fear. Actively involved in his own health treatments. “A fanatic of justice”. Self-willed and does not tolerate objections.

[anotherperson]

Do you think it will help you understand or sympathise with him more, if you were to figure out his type?

i think it would help a little bit. the only reason i have gained some respect is because apparently he likes the enneagram too. so we have something in common. but even now he kind of gets on my nerves. so if its Fi blindspot, that would leave SLE and ILE. i will look up the differences between the two.

[thistle]

i think it would help a little bit. the only reason i have gained some respect is because apparently he likes the enneagram too. so we have something in common. but even now he kind of gets on my nerves. so if its Fi blindspot, that would leave SLE and ILE. i will look up the differences between the two.

It's great that you have picked up on a shared interest between you. It's difficult to discuss enneagram without revealing sensitive parts of yourself, so that could potentially be a barrier. Still, if he raises the subject in class that may provide an opportunity for you to share with him some enneagram resources you've found.

It makes sense if you would feel apprehensive/resistant to offer that up, though.

[thistle]

I haven’t read your conversation with OP so it isn’t a comment on the person’s type but ime some Te leads are capable of acting against their own Fi suggestive, seeing it as antagonistic to their ‘superior’ if you will, logic. I can imagine LSE shutting down to any alternatives (weak Ne) and going by his own knowledge and experience in a very extreme sense, and an LIE so swept up by his intuition (Ne/Ni) he doesn’t realize what’s directly perceivable (Se) - that in fact Fi and Te are quite compatible.

you could almost mistake them for an Fi PoLR type but they might not be. Check this “pathologies” section from wikisocion

LSE (Stierlitz)

LSE (demonstrative-fixated): passion, perseverance, stubbornness, high indicators in work. Fruitless fights and struggles. May be at a height for a long period of time. Loud shouts, intransigence, ambition in the prime of life, authority at work, solid position at work, “escapes into sickness” counting on pity. In everyday life - high quality, denial of guilt, irritability, anger, elements of adventurism, shuts out the unpleasant, passion in actions and activities, disregard for ethics.

LIE (Jack London)
LIE (fixated): almost pathological resilience of affect. Vindictive and vengeful, does not take offense at minor things, but when his pride and honor are hurt is painfully touchy. Affects on the level of selfish motives. Strives for justice for himself, conceit, arrogance, ambition, confidence. Little reward, positive feedback, instead there are suspicions, jealousy, intractability, litigation, stubbornness, absorption into optimistic dreams, overvalued ideas, hard-headedness. No tendency for self-suggestion. Ambition - is an excellent drive to work and creative performance. In the early years characterized by outstanding achievements in various fields. Not one time starts from scratch and succeeds. Person of ideas. Constantly increasing fear. Actively involved in his own health treatments. “A fanatic of justice”. Self-willed and does not tolerate objections.

I haven't read this "pathologies" article before, thank you for mentioning it.
Yes, I can actually see a version of this playing out in myself - where I am unconvinced that someone's input to my weak suggestive function will help me, or the situation we're in.

[anotherperson]

It's great that you have picked up on a shared interest between you. It's difficult to discuss enneagram without revealing sensitive parts of yourself, so that could potentially be a barrier. Still, if he raises the subject in class that may provide an opportunity for you to share with him some enneagram resources you've found.

It makes sense if you would feel apprehensive/resistant to offer that up, though.

if he brings it up again i might do the shared resources idea. i was surprised at first that he took interest in personality theory but i shouldnt be, considering how other-oriented he is.

Also, the comparison seems to lead to ILE. he has the "OMG look! !" vibe that Ne leads have.