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Thread: Body shaming

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    Post Body shaming

    I hope this thread isnít too off-putting.

    The other day I had a minor argument with a loved one because he was expressing negative views about obese people, and I didnít like his tone or attitude. He seemed to think his views were logical; I told him that he was simply being mean-spirited.

    I just wonder: why are some people so vicious when talking about certain body types? Itís not like it concerns them.

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    On a personal level, obesity annoys me, because it’s largely self-inflicted and a lot of obese people get stuck in an entitled victim mentality of their own making. I have a brain injury from birth which affects my mobility and it irks me a lot that people make excuses and nonchalantly say they are “physically disabled” because they allowed themselves to get fat enough to the point of making themselves physically stuck.

    Deep now, I would love to have a fully functional body and then I see obese people willfully throw away their physical function. So that’s why I don’t personally have much sympathy other than that most of them probably struggle with mental illness.

    Additionally, obesity is an epidemic. Over 40% of Americans are obese. It reeks of entitlement to me.



    All that said, obese people are people too and should be showed common decency like everyone else.

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    society will look back at obesity as a symbol of greed and lazyness. maybe shaming has some societal merit, because it tells an individual that a certain form of presenting yourself is unacceptable, and you are constantly reminded to change. I think this sort of thing is more common in collective beta societies, where individualism is looked down upon. in our individualistic western society where gamma values are more dominant, shaming others is seen with much criticism, as everyone is free to do whatever they want (which won't be possible when resources get scarce again).

    I think the problem with obesity is that it's not necessarily an individuals fault, as many foods are too high in calorie and have too much sugar, and it seems to me that not every person is capable of living a responsible life by themselves without a mentor. it's kinda a mixture of neglect on an individual level and a problematic structure of society as a whole
    the majority of people who browse this site are IEI. intuition of time is the function that is interested in the psychological state of human beings. typology is a field dominated by INxx, especially IEI.

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    Aside from obvious reasons people tend to have deep hate because they have also been shamed of it or have this fear of being shamed for it so they shame actual fat or fatter people as a response. It's the same thing we hate about others, it's kind of internalized hate or projection. For example I would hate people who aren't responsible because I felt like I always have to be responsible. So it's the same with fat like we're trying hard to be healthy why can't they. Sometimes it's like that. Maybe people who have been fat or have struggled and accepted it are more forgiving. It's very difficult to not feel bad when you're trying hard you see people who are more "free"

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    cognitive decline from cerebral inflamamtion from cranial bones grinding on their brain from physical and emotional trauma makes people narcissistic, forceful and self absorbed. people become objects to be used and when you're fat, a child, a woman, mentally ill etc anything that makes you not useful in any way, they have to hurt you for it. also u can be useful for organs, or for that and smth else as a woman but thats ur use. imagine if u are obese woman adn someone tries to SA you, it wont be as easy and they risk dying. also harder to dispose of the body if they kill you
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    Quote Originally Posted by EIE H View Post
    On a personal level, obesity annoys me, because it’s largely self-inflicted and a lot of obese people get stuck in an entitled victim mentality of their own making. I have a brain injury from birth which affects my mobility and it irks me a lot that people make excuses and nonchalantly say they are “physically disabled” because they allowed themselves to get fat enough to the point of making themselves physically stuck.

    Deep now, I would love to have a fully functional body and then I see obese people willfully throw away their physical function. So that’s why I don’t personally have much sympathy other than that most of them probably struggle with mental illness.

    Additionally, obesity is an epidemic. Over 40% of Americans are obese. It reeks of entitlement to me.



    All that said, obese people are people too and should be showed common decency like everyone else.
    I’ve never been personally annoyed at obese people, but seeing it from your perspective, I can understand your feelings better. I guess I’ve just never been bothered by obese people because the ones I’ve known have never really made a big deal out of their obesity or talked much about it. Like yeah, they know they’re very fat lol, and of course everyone else sees it, and we don’t make a fuss over it cuz it is what it is, ya know? Not my body so I don’t care. I just care about how well we get along and understand each other (as I’d like to think most people do).

    I can’t help but think many people with obesity do struggle with mental illness, hormonal imbalances, eating disorders (which are types of mental illness), or are disabled in some way, which either causes or exacerbates their obesity, so it’s hard for me not to feel sympathetic. And yet, when so many Americans are obese, I think there must be something else at play.

    I’m also thinking of what @Alive is saying:

    I think the problem with obesity is that it's not necessarily an individuals fault, as many foods are too high in calorie and have too much sugar, and it seems to me that not every person is capable of living a responsible life by themselves without a mentor. it's kinda a mixture of neglect on an individual level and a problematic structure of society as a whole
    While obesity is to some degree a result of individual self-neglect, it’s also sadly a result of food corporations adding too many unhealthy chemicals and ingredients into their products, like too much sugar, fat, and calories, all of which only worsens the obesity epidemic. Individuals can be held accountable for their obesity, but I feel that to some extent it should also be blamed on food corporations, and perhaps even on the FDA (in the case of the USA) for having such lax regulations on what sorts of chemicals and ingredients are allowed to be put into our food.

    Maybe I’m overly lenient, who knows.

    I have a lot of thoughts about this, haha. But yes, at the end of the day, obese people are just people too, and should be afforded common decency like everyone else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by one View Post
    Aside from obvious reasons people tend to have deep hate because they have also been shamed of it or have this fear of being shamed for it so they shame actual fat or fatter people as a response. It's the same thing we hate about others, it's kind of internalized hate or projection. For example I would hate people who aren't responsible because I felt like I always have to be responsible. So it's the same with fat like we're trying hard to be healthy why can't they. Sometimes it's like that. Maybe people who have been fat or have struggled and accepted it are more forgiving. It's very difficult to not feel bad when you're trying hard you see people who are more "free"
    I think you hit the nail on the head, at least in the case of some people, like the loved one I was arguing with who I mentioned. He’s currently overweight (though not obese), and he’s been working hard to lose weight and eat less, so then I guess to a large extent his thought process is what you said: “I’m trying so hard to be healthy so why can’t they?”

    In general, he’s very fixated on what’s wrong with society and what’s wrong with the people closest to him and how society needs to be fixed, as well as what everyone individually must do to fix their lives. I understand his feelings to some degree but he can be a bit overbearing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alive View Post
    society will look back at obesity as a symbol of greed and lazyness. maybe shaming has some societal merit, because it tells an individual that a certain form of presenting yourself is unacceptable, and you are constantly reminded to change. I think this sort of thing is more common in collective beta societies, where individualism is looked down upon. in our individualistic western society where gamma values are more dominant, shaming others is seen with much criticism, as everyone is free to do whatever they want (which won't be possible when resources get scarce again).
    I don’t really think there’s anything unacceptable about presenting yourself as an obese person lol.

    But what do you mean in that last line? When resources get scarce again, it won’t be possible for people to freely do whatever they want, obviously. Collectivism tends to increase during times of scarcity and individualism increases during times of plenty, so since you say this sort of body shaming is more common in beta collective societies, then during times of scarcity, gamma individualistic societies will suddenly become less tolerant of obesity? Maybe since resources will be scarce, people will have less food to consume, so then there will be more competition for resources, and therefore obese people will be more likely seen as “greedy” for hoarding so much food in times of need, so they will be shamed with less remorse?

    I just find what you said interesting.

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    got this Socionics stuff caught by the balls

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    Quote Originally Posted by kuno View Post
    I think you hit the nail on the head, at least in the case of some people, like the loved one I was arguing with who I mentioned. He’s currently overweight (though not obese), and he’s been working hard to lose weight and eat less, so then I guess to a large extent his thought process is what you said: “I’m trying so hard to be healthy so why can’t they?”

    In general, he’s very fixated on what’s wrong with society and what’s wrong with the people closest to him and how society needs to be fixed, as well as what everyone individually must do to fix their lives. I understand his feelings to some degree but he can be a bit overbearing.
    Tell him to shut up or that you’ll become obese too as a threat
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    Quote Originally Posted by roger557 View Post
    got this Socionics stuff caught by the balls

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    Quote Originally Posted by simpin is pimpin View Post
    Tell him to shut up or that you’ll become obese too as a threat
    Damn, why didn’t I think of saying that LOL. I would say something like that, too.

    He’d probably bust his gut laughing if I did cuz I’m currently a scrawny, underweight dude (and he’s always telling me to eat more ).

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    It's not healthy to be obese and to glorify it as just another lifestyle choice is wrong. But I don't think people should be cruel either. That's just not productive and instead ppl should positively encourage others to work out + eat right. It's just soo good for you. People make fun of Richard Simmons for how gay he is, but he has the right attitude about this tbh. Anyone who gets a kick out of trying to make other feel people bad has their own insecurities to work on. Happy and well-adjusted people lift people up, they don't tear them down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kuno View Post
    I don’t really think there’s anything unacceptable about presenting yourself as an obese person lol.

    But what do you mean in that last line? When resources get scarce again, it won’t be possible for people to freely do whatever they want, obviously. Collectivism tends to increase during times of scarcity and individualism increases during times of plenty, so since you say this sort of body shaming is more common in beta collective societies, then during times of scarcity, gamma individualistic societies will suddenly become less tolerant of obesity? Maybe since resources will be scarce, people will have less food to consume, so then there will be more competition for resources, and therefore obese people will be more likely seen as “greedy” for hoarding so much food in times of need, so they will be shamed with less remorse?

    I just find what you said interesting.
    I think that gamma values will disappear eventually as it doesn't really operate with a sustainable model. I don't think that obese people will be shamed when resources are scarce. I suspect their fate will be a bit worse. there's also the problem with health consequences. many obese people have issues with their knees, shoulders, hips. usually they go to the hospital or doctor rather frequently and also take quite a number of pills. if operations and medication aren't available anymore, they are going to run into a lot of issues, even when they are young.
    the majority of people who browse this site are IEI. intuition of time is the function that is interested in the psychological state of human beings. typology is a field dominated by INxx, especially IEI.

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    Genetics predisposition to obesity 43% of the general population. There is about 40% of U.S. population who suffer from obesity.

    Is obesity Genetic ?

    Some details.

    more details... :

    the recent discoveries in genetics have found that people differ in their perceptions of hunger and satiety on a genetic basis and that predisposed subgroups of the population may be particularly vulnerable to obesity in ďobesogenicĒ societies with unlimited access to food.This notion must lead to a more open attitude toward obese people and a reduction in discrimination against them [123], it is clear that obesity cannot be considered as a consequence only of indolence or lack of will, as often thought in our societies.

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    To be fair to the situation too many strange factors are involved in a person’s body things like genes chemicals cravings

    You can’t just say “obesity” is self inflicted.

    Take for instance hypoglycemia coupled with not being able to control satiation
    Take for instance eating excessively due to ptsd or anxiety disorders
    How about being poor and having only cheap carbs to eat
    How about an enlarged fat deposit that makes its own hormones and affects satiating processes and wants you to eat and eat to feed itself


    So blaming a person for some arbitrary ideal is absolutely nonsense.
    How about people like myself. If I don’t eat a healthy serving of greens I feel sick
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    Quote Originally Posted by godslave View Post
    Genetics predisposition to obesity 43% of the general population. There is about 40% of U.S. population who suffer from obesity.

    Is obesity Genetic ?

    Some details.

    more details... :
    Great articles! Thanks for sharing! I will read them now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kuno View Post
    I hope this thread isnít too off-putting.

    The other day I had a minor argument with a loved one because he was expressing negative views about obese people, and I didnít like his tone or attitude. He seemed to think his views were logical; I told him that he was simply being mean-spirited.

    I just wonder: why are some people so vicious when talking about certain body types? Itís not like it concerns them.
    Because they want to propose an ideal
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by kuno View Post
    Damn, why didn’t I think of saying that LOL. I would say something like that, too.

    He’d probably bust his gut laughing if I did cuz I’m currently a scrawny, underweight dude (and he’s always telling me to eat more ).
    Imagine if when he loses weight, his attitude changes. And then this causes your attitude to change too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    get ready to get cucked
    Quote Originally Posted by roger557 View Post
    got this Socionics stuff caught by the balls

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    Quote Originally Posted by VewyScawwyNawcissist View Post
    cognitive decline from cerebral inflamamtion from cranial bones grinding on their brain from physical and emotional trauma makes people narcissistic, forceful and self absorbed. people become objects to be used and when you're fat, a child, a woman, mentally ill etc anything that makes you not useful in any way, they have to hurt you for it. also u can be useful for organs, or for that and smth else as a woman but thats ur use. imagine if u are obese woman adn someone tries to SA you, it wont be as easy and they risk dying. also harder to dispose of the body if they kill you
    I struggled to understand this
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    This article @godslave sent highlights in one section how environmental and societal factors can help cause obesity (see the section "Gene-Environment Interactions: Why Heredity Is Not Destiny").

    It got me thinking how the high levels of car dependency in the US may be another factor in why obesity is such a problem in the US, on top of the other factors the article mentions. (I can't speak for other countries, so I welcome the viewpoints of non-US residents.)

    For example, I live in the New York metropolitan area, and unlike many other parts of the US, walking is very much the norm over here and is necessary to get to many places.

    Conversely, my boyfriend lives in a highly car-dependent area where there are no sidewalks, no public transport, no taxi cabs, no Ubers/Lyfts... the only way to get around in his town is by driving your own car. He doesn't even live in a rural area to justify this sort of layout.

    My boyfriend and I visited the city of Chicago last month, and over there, walking is very common like in New York City. I was perfectly fine with walking around everywhere, but my boyfriend would get tired out very easily, he'd frequently get foot aches, and he'd have to sit down every now & then. He admitted that he never has to walk very much where he lives and is used to always getting around in his car. I can imagine such car dependency also contributing to the US obesity epidemic.

    .
    .
    .
    On a positive note, a long hiking trail just recently opened in my boyfriend's town, and many people there have begun to regularly jog, walk, and hike, including my boyfriend. He said he's really happy to finally have an easy way of staying active on days when he can't go to the gym. Hope this becomes a trend in more car-dependent areas!
    Last edited by kuno; 02-02-2023 at 03:38 AM. Reason: fixed typos

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    Quote Originally Posted by kuno View Post
    I hope this thread isn’t too off-putting.

    The other day I had a minor argument with a loved one because he was expressing negative views about obese people, and I didn’t like his tone or attitude. He seemed to think his views were logical; I told him that he was simply being mean-spirited.

    I just wonder: why are some people so vicious when talking about certain body types? It’s not like it concerns them.
    Not offputting at all. it's actually understandable from my end. See, I've been keenly aware of how much the aesthetics of the general population has been, well, degrading. A great example of this is this little exercise. Take a picture of a crowd of people in a major metropolitan area in the West from 50 years ago and compare it to one from today. My oh my how far we have collectively fallen...

    I get mad looking at the "models" pictured at the local Wal-Mart when I use my mind to compare that to what I viewed back in the 90's as a child. Yeah, downright ugly by comparison and I'm expected to call them beautiful? NO! They're ugly as sin by comparison and I'll call it as I see it!

    Quote Originally Posted by kuno View Post
    I don’t really think there’s anything unacceptable about presenting yourself as an obese person lol.

    But what do you mean in that last line? When resources get scarce again, it won’t be possible for people to freely do whatever they want, obviously. Collectivism tends to increase during times of scarcity and individualism increases during times of plenty, so since you say this sort of body shaming is more common in beta collective societies, then during times of scarcity, gamma individualistic societies will suddenly become less tolerant of obesity? Maybe since resources will be scarce, people will have less food to consume, so then there will be more competition for resources, and therefore obese people will be more likely seen as “greedy” for hoarding so much food in times of need, so they will be shamed with less remorse?

    I just find what you said interesting.
    That's the Gamma dual axis of / and / talking. Remember, the Gamma Quadra actually tends towards maximizing individuality and meritocracy. I mean, I actually like and admire G.K. Chesterton. Franz Kafka (i.e. the most cynical man I can imagine that actually existed) was in awe of how happy he was to the point that he earnestly believed he actually found God!

    Chesterton certainly wasn't thin and he made no attempt to become as such. Though I do believe he would not recommend the common man or woman to name his "proportions" as anything close to a healthy or aesthetic ideal. He was who he was and that was that. It befited him but it was not a thing he'd recommend everyone within his society emulate. There only ought to ever be so many fat and happy about that men out there as it were.

    Quote Originally Posted by VewyScawwyNawcissist View Post
    cognitive decline from cerebral inflamamtion from cranial bones grinding on their brain from physical and emotional trauma makes people narcissistic, forceful and self absorbed. people become objects to be used and when you're fat, a child, a woman, mentally ill etc anything that makes you not useful in any way, they have to hurt you for it. also u can be useful for organs, or for that and smth else as a woman but thats ur use. imagine if u are obese woman adn someone tries to SA you, it wont be as easy and they risk dying. also harder to dispose of the body if they kill you
    Been awhile. I will simply tap the sign about Attachment Issues and recommend both you and everyone else get very familiar with them. You are right that trauma can make you narcissistic, forceful, and self-absorbed. That yes it can make you treat people like objects instead of human beings. That is the essence of the experience of broken attachment. What you describe is more in line with how "Dissmissive" styles see the world but the "Anxious" are just as guilty as they treat others as pagan idols that can somehow be appeased if only they score enough Good Boy/Girl/Xir/ESG/etc. points. Both treat other people as objects, but they come at it from opposite angles.

    I'd also tell you that the bar for said trauma isn't as high as most think it is. That time mommy didn't hug you as you cried your eyes out. When daddy said your crayon drawing was ugly in a rather unempathetic and cruel tone. Hell, it happens so early and so hard merely being put in a NICU unit because you were a preme through no fault of anyone and your parents were, besides that one major failing that may have been no fault of anyone's own, literally the best parents ever, can cause these issues to manifest.

    The biggest issue is that this is an issue/problem that most have no idea even exists. You cannot hope to deal with a problem you cannot even conceive of having. Hence, here we are. Blind trying to lead the blind through sound while not even realizing that smell and touch are a thing and could thus be combined with sound to get a much greater picture despite the possibility that nobody has the faculty of sight anymore...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    Because they want to propose an ideal
    I get that people want ideal situations but it's telling if they are heavily invested in something specially for something that doesn't concern them very much. It's most likely because they are being hit by the same demon they are talking about

  23. #23
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EIE H View Post
    On a personal level, obesity annoys me, because it’s largely self-inflicted and a lot of obese people get stuck in an entitled victim mentality of their own making. I have a brain injury from birth which affects my mobility and it irks me a lot that people make excuses and nonchalantly say they are “physically disabled” because they allowed themselves to get fat enough to the point of making themselves physically stuck.

    Deep now, I would love to have a fully functional body and then I see obese people willfully throw away their physical function. So that’s why I don’t personally have much sympathy other than that most of them probably struggle with mental illness.

    Additionally, obesity is an epidemic. Over 40% of Americans are obese. It reeks of entitlement to me.



    All that said, obese people are people too and should be showed common decency like everyone else.
    It’s interesting having Ne as a demonstration function the only possibility that you can see is mental illness

    On a side note I see how EII would be more accepting even though you skimmed that obese people should be showed common decency.

    In any case @fjoerd do you more agree with my assessment or that of FeNi?

    I say there are too many factors that make someone obese and body shaming them as though it is their fault or they had something to do with it is wrong as well as unkind.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  24. #24
    ♛ 𝔓𝔯𝔦𝔫𝔠𝔢𝔰𝔰 𝔬𝔣 𝔐𝔞𝔦𝔷𝔢𝔰𝔱𝔞𝔫 ♛ Aster's Avatar
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    It makes people feel better than themselves, gossiping or bitching about other peoples weight issues, imo. My great grandmother always told me, if you have nothing nice to say, don’t say anything at all. Of course, the attitude of talking crap about over weight people serves it’s purpose, too. It motivates some to lose weight, but some it just makes them eat more. Most people are the latter, imo.

    being overweight, at certain periods of time, was considered ideal and beautiful because it signified that someone was rich. Then thinness became in vogue. To many, being over weight just seems like gluttony. A lack of control.

    my mom was overweight, and she felt like shit about it. Hers seemed genetic. She had the exact same body type as her dad. I’m lucky to get my dads. But the meds I have been taking made me gain 20lbs because they increased my appetite and lately I’ve been try to diet and it’s been hard and I feel like shit about it now. After having 4 kids, I always lost all the weight. Now I’m struggling. Some people have shit metabolism, or take meds that make it harder. Or emotional issues.

    So, personality, I never talk crap about overweight people. Mainly from having my mom struggle as a child. She was not lazy at all. She was extremely active, and a great person. And she was embarrassed and ashamed of it. Her weight didn’t embarrass me ever. I was very proud of her, actually.
    ♓︎ 𝓅𝒾𝓈𝒸𝑒𝓈 ♓︎ 𝓅𝒾𝓈𝒸𝑒𝓈
    ♍︎ 𝓋𝒾𝓇𝑔𝑜 𝓇𝒾𝓈𝒾𝓃𝑔 ♍︎

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aster View Post
    It makes people feel better than themselves, gossiping or bitching about other peoples weight issues, imo. My great grandmother always told me, if you have nothing nice to say, donít say anything at all. Of course, the attitude of talking crap about over weight people serves itís purpose, too. It motivates some to lose weight, but some it just makes them eat more. Most people are the latter, imo.

    being overweight, at certain periods of time, was considered ideal and beautiful because it signified that someone was rich. Then thinness became in vogue. To many, being over weight just seems like gluttony. A lack of control.

    my mom was overweight, and she felt like shit about it. Hers seemed genetic. She had the exact same body type as her dad. Iím lucky to get my dads. But the meds I have been taking made me gain 20lbs because they increased my appetite and lately Iíve been try to diet and itís been hard and I feel like shit about it now. After having 4 kids, I always lost all the weight. Now Iím struggling. Some people have shit metabolism, or take meds that make it harder. Or emotional issues.

    So, personality, I never talk crap about overweight people. Mainly from having my mom struggle as a child. She was not lazy at all. She was extremely active, and a great person. And she was embarrassed and ashamed of it. Her weight didnít embarrass me ever. I was very proud of her, actually.
    I love it when beta types have relatable personal experiences that they share that makes them seem more delta in their acceptance and open mindedness for others
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aster View Post
    It makes people feel better than themselves, gossiping or bitching about other peoples weight issues, imo. My great grandmother always told me, if you have nothing nice to say, donít say anything at all. Of course, the attitude of talking crap about over weight people serves itís purpose, too. It motivates some to lose weight, but some it just makes them eat more. Most people are the latter, imo.

    being overweight, at certain periods of time, was considered ideal and beautiful because it signified that someone was rich. Then thinness became in vogue. To many, being over weight just seems like gluttony. A lack of control.

    my mom was overweight, and she felt like shit about it. Hers seemed genetic. She had the exact same body type as her dad. Iím lucky to get my dads. But the meds I have been taking made me gain 20lbs because they increased my appetite and lately Iíve been try to diet and itís been hard and I feel like shit about it now. After having 4 kids, I always lost all the weight. Now Iím struggling. Some people have shit metabolism, or take meds that make it harder. Or emotional issues.

    So, personality, I never talk crap about overweight people. Mainly from having my mom struggle as a child. She was not lazy at all. She was extremely active, and a great person. And she was embarrassed and ashamed of it. Her weight didnít embarrass me ever. I was very proud of her, actually.
    This remind me of a friend I had in highschool who was taking some anti-depressant that made him gain weight into being obese. I saw him attempt to eat a few times, but he had no appetite and his medication caused nausea. That's some awful combo, being unable to eat but gaining weight.
    He got better and lost weight after highschool, I hardly recognized him, mostly because he looked happy.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Also, weight has no bearing on health

    Take my obese coworker and I

    She can eat loads of saturated fat heavy foods and her liver doesn’t bat an eye at her
    Me if I so much as have an ice cream and a slice of creamy cake my cholesterol will go up.
    I’d be more likely to die of heart disease than her since probably her arteries are more smooth and better coated of vitamin E than mine

    Yeah the way your internal organs work has nothing to do with your Weight
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    @Aster @adage

    Thank you so much for sharing your stories! I think it’s very important to recognize that certain medications can also play a role in causing obesity or weight gain. Adage, I’m glad your high school friend was able to regain some normalcy in his diet and become healthier. That anti-depressant sounds awful… especially because it completely removes your appetite and replaces it with nausea and extra pounds. That’s insane. I’m happy he’s happy now!

    Aster, your story about your mom hit a soft spot in my heart because my mom is currently struggling with losing weight as well. My mom has had some pain in her knees which has made it difficult for her to walk or exercise, so she’s gained some extra weight and I don’t think she feels very good about herself but we (my family) constantly try to pump her up, to make her feel better about herself. Hearing the things you said about your mother brought a tear to my eye :’) It’s heartwarming. She sounds like she was a wonderful mother, from the little you’ve told me about her.

    My father is naturally chunky, and in his old age he gains weight easily, despite his daily exercise. I also try to pump him up constantly because the poor guy beats himself up about his eating habits and weight gain, although he definitely looks a lot more able-bodied and fit than most men his age. Some of us are too hard on ourselves.

    Societal body ideals and beauty standards are poisonous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    It’s interesting having Ne as a demonstration function the only possibility that you can see is mental illness

    On a side note I see how EII would be more accepting even though you skimmed that obese people should be showed common decency.

    In any case @fjoerd do you more agree with my assessment or that of FeNi?

    I say there are too many factors that make someone obese and body shaming them as though it is their fault or they had something to do with it is wrong as well as unkind.
    Overeating to that extent almost always indicates a food addiction.… that’s why I say mental illness. Food addiction is often connected to depression/anxiety/trauma.

    I have read up on the science of obesity and from what I have gathered, obesity is primarily environmental, lack of education, and underlying mental health issues. Genetics and primary physical health issues accounts for a small portion of it. Only a minority can truly completely blame it on factors out of their control. If you want to get truly technical, you can look into “epigenetics”.

    I guess I just don’t have sympathy for the obese people who don’t take ownership of their health/problems.


    It’s funny that you question my Ne demo because I have had people tell me that I seem Fi creative. Lol. I don’t give a shit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    Also, weight has no bearing on health

    Take my obese coworker and I

    She can eat loads of saturated fat heavy foods and her liver doesn’t bat an eye at her
    Me if I so much as have an ice cream and a slice of creamy cake my cholesterol will go up.
    I’d be more likely to die of heart disease than her since probably her arteries are more smooth and better coated of vitamin E than mine

    Yeah the way your internal organs work has nothing to do with your Weight
    This is a very important point to consider! There is more than meets the eye, like Optimus Prime famously said. Physical appearance can belie a lot of things. When I was in high school, I didn’t always eat very healthy yet I never gained weight; I was rail-thin. You would’ve thought I barely ate anything, but that was not the case. I’ve since improved my eating habits, however.

    An overweight body doesn’t indicate lack of conscientious eating or lack of exercise. I once had a friend with PCOS, a hormonal disorder which—among other things—made weight loss 2x harder for her than the average woman. She was overweight but she did exercise to keep any extra weight at bay.

  31. #31
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EIE H View Post
    Overeating to that extent almost always indicates a food addiction.… that’s why I say mental illness. Food addiction is often connected to depression/anxiety/trauma.

    I have read up on the science of obesity and from what I have gathered, obesity is primarily environmental, lack of education, and underlying mental health issues. Genetics and primary physical health issues accounts for a small portion of it. Only a minority can truly completely blame it on factors out of their control. If you want to get truly technical, you can look into “epigenetics”.

    I guess I just don’t have sympathy for the obese people who don’t take ownership of their health/problems.


    It’s funny that you question my Ne demo because I have had people tell me that I seem Fi creative. Lol. I don’t give a shit.
    Do you have empathy for them?

    Yeah lack of sympathy is pretty much ignoring
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 02-02-2023 at 04:51 PM.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    Do you have empathy for them?

    Yeah lack of empathy is pretty much ignoring
    Yea as people but not if they regularly complain about things that are in their control and not taking responsibility. If it’s because of thyroid issues, PCOS, then I have more sympathy. But if people are regularly making excuses for being obese/complaining and not doing anything to improve their situation, it truly irks me. However, if they are obese and content, then all the power to them.

    For some context, I work in the industry with registered dietitians, physical therapists, and personal trainers and most of them do say that a lot of weight issues/obesity is predominantly psychological and environmental with some genetic influence.

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    This New York Times opinion piece is very good, too, imo—written from both scientific and personal perspectives. I always think well-considered personal perspectives contribute a lot to these conversations.

    The article also briefly mentions the weight loss and type 2 diabetes medication, Ozempic, which has drawn a lot of attention lately because of models and celebrities who have been buying up the drug to quickly lose weight and participate in the resurgent skinny trend, effectively leaving a lot of diabetic and obese people without the treatment they need.

    This NPR article talks more about the problematic Ozempic shortage.

    I can’t help but find body trends and beauty standards so ridiculous. Yet I feel for the people who lack such self-esteem that they feel the need to fit into them… but that is still no justification for depriving diabetic and obese people of the medication they need.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Iím a compassionate altruist

    https://youtu.be/35Wt8LhoVHA
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  35. #35
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuno View Post
    This New York Times opinion piece is very good, too, imoówritten from both scientific and personal perspectives. I always think well-considered personal perspectives contribute a lot to these conversations.

    The article also briefly mentions the weight loss and type 2 diabetes medication, Ozempic, which has drawn a lot of attention lately because of models and celebrities who have been buying up the drug to quickly lose weight and participate in the resurgent skinny trend, effectively leaving a lot of diabetic and obese people without the treatment they need.

    This NPR article talks more about the problematic Ozempic shortage.

    I canít help but find body trends and beauty standards so ridiculous. Yet I feel for the people who lack such self-esteem that they feel the need to fit into themÖ but that is still no justification for depriving diabetic and obese people of the medication they need.
    would you please watch the video I posted and let me know which emotion you feel?
    Thanks
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    would you please watch the video I posted and let me know which emotion you feel?
    Thanks
    I’m generally a compassionate altruist, who usually feels more sympathy than actual empathy (though I do feel empathy sometimes).

    There are occasions when I don’t feel much sympathy or compassion, admittedly, but I still perform altruistic acts purely out of a sense of moral obligation.

    Nice video!

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    When it comes to numbers, my guess is that people who consciously put great care into staying healthy (spend extra money on quality food, calculate calories, take regular body exercise seriously, work week after week with a half-empty stomach if necessary, pay attention to quality sleep, don't overstress, refuse taking drugs, etc.) represent only a small percentage in Western societies. Singling out fat people, calling them mentally weak and masquerading body shaming as if it was just tough love is hypocritical. They are just easy targets for those, who, although don't live a healthy life either, at least aren't fat.

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    I was think about some woman I knew who was naturally skinny no matter how much she ate, like most people in her familly.
    She has a son who is just like her, and after enduring years of being told by her doctor to gain weight and make her son gain weight, she snapped at him. She had told him in more calm ways before, but saddly some people only understand when you snap at them.
    So yeah, she endured years of erroneous and even harmful judgements from a health profesional over her, and her son's natural physique.
    They are a bit like @Beautiful sky in the sense of not feeling so well eating high saturated fat food.

    I guess at times, people can be "vicious" underhandedly by trying to help according to the wrong standards.

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    It shouldn't be used as an excuse to be unhealthy but ppl naturally have different metabolism levels due to genetics. So comparing yourself to others is bad. I still think having a good body is a good goal to have for health reasons but ppl with narcissistically good bodies can be/are often narcissistic themselves. They are flawed/get in too much trouble with the law/test things they shouldn't too much etc.

    Reminds me of the time this twink waltzed in the bar and had a perfect six pack but was a huge jerk to everybody for no reason and almost everybody called him out for his rude personality. What's the fucking point, acting like that to me ruins the purpose of looking at better bodies in the first place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adage View Post
    I was think about some woman I knew who was naturally skinny no matter how much she ate, like most people in her familly.
    She has a son who is just like her, and after enduring years of being told by her doctor to gain weight and make her son gain weight, she snapped at him. She had told him in more calm ways before, but saddly some people only understand when you snap at them.
    So yeah, she endured years of erroneous and even harmful judgements from a health profesional over her, and her son's natural physique.
    They are a bit like @Beautiful sky in the sense of not feeling so well eating high saturated fat food.

    I guess at times, people can be "vicious" underhandedly by trying to help according to the wrong standards.
    I understand her frustration. I’m naturally skinny (as of now, anyway) and I’ve always been slightly underweight. I’ve had to endure a lot of comments from people telling me I need to eat more, I need to gain some weight, I’m too scrawny for my own good, I gotta lift some weights, people asking if I’m anorexic, etc. Some people say this stuff with good intentions but they just don’t word it well, and some are simply being mean. There comes a point when you just get sick of the comments. It must be even worse when it’s coming from your own doctor!

    I also can’t eat very fatty foods or else I feel sick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shazaam View Post
    Reminds me of the time this twink waltzed in the bar and had a perfect six pack but was a huge jerk to everybody for no reason and almost everybody called him out for his rude personality. What's the fucking point, acting like that to me ruins the purpose of looking at better bodies in the first place.
    Being a gay man myself, I’ve often had a lot of shitty experiences with other gay men in my area because there are a lot of physically attractive but narcissistic & sassy gay guys here, for some reason. Funnily enough, a lot of them are hot twink guys, like the guy you mentioned. Lol.

    I’ve had some experiences with these guys but they never went too far because I can’t stand being with someone who thinks they’re better than everyone else. They were nice to me because they liked me, but there was no telling when they would turn on me and start treating me just as badly.

    Glad everybody in that bar you were talking about called that jerk out on his rude attitude!

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