Are incels generally Sx-last?
Assuming they’re at least average looking? It seems like most suffer from a lack of natural charisma, comfort in their own skin, and willingness to be polarizing and showcase their personality that Sx-firsts/seconds seem to develop early. They’re looking for a rule book/cheat sheet for a process that a large chunk of the population understands intuitively
I don't really subscribe to the looks theory thing. It's more if your personality stands out the way males in nature are naturally more colorful/flamboyant, or you are confident enough to tease women in a str8 and macho way. I've seen str8 girls drive to houses at 3 Am to get dick from guys that literally and objectively looked like roadkill. But they were into the guy because he was sadistically mean to other people but not her ((at least never in the beginning lol)) and that made her feel safe and protected in a caveman animalistic way.
If you are confident and/or are prettier than them, I actually think many heterosexual women get annoyed at that- because subconsciously they often want to be the confident princess, not the other person. And if the guy is a confident princess, it will be like Yin and Yin. At least my sister told me the reason she didn't like a group of gay guys in the big city was because they were prettier than her. lmao.
Of course if you are the entire package (looks + personality + dominant enough + wealthy & popular) , that has some appeal- but if you are 'too creepy' that can also be incel-y no matter how good looking or famous you are. It's kind of disappointing to me how uncreative or average some Te-ish 'Chad' males are, but from a hetero-biology perspective- I can definitely see why that is.
Charisma has a lot to do with it (and true they do often lack it) I don't think they are always not confident though. Tbh I think normie society just tends to say that as a way to make them feel good about their own sexual selection choices. It seems to be a red herring, because some of the most insecure not confident people get laid. Narcissists after all don't like themselves deep down inside, yet many narcissisitic str8 men have no problems getting a lot of sex from females. If anything I think it's the reverse, they aren't insecure enough to be manipulated by women or to find them attractive- they are just too delta male blase about everything.
Probably Sx-second. If people didn't want sex, they wouldn't be involuntarily celibate, they'd be voluntarily celibate.
I think incel is Sx dom problem, not sx last
people who have Sx as last instincts will have much less trouble than Sx doms in finding a mate and getting into a relationship, because they are not overly idealistic, obsessive, or demanding in a relationship.
Sx doms on the other hand suffer from all of the above, this will be more difficult: they don't necessarily find someone who meets their expectations, and even if they do find it's possible that their partner isn't able to satisfy their excessive need for Sx
Just as the social instinct in its unhealthy state turns from an instinct that cares for everyone into an antisocial instinct, and just as the instinct of self-preservation turns from an instinct to preserve self into an instinct that destroys self, the sexual instinct can turn into an instinct hostile to intimate relationships and the people who have them (and thus, resulting incel behaviors )
if anything id think so last
actualyl waht u described is smth i read about so lasts.
also so lasts are more interested in taboo stuff usually hence they get ostracized
most of my close friends arent sx blind and they are incels
Last edited by VewyScawwyNawcissist; 01-01-2023 at 10:50 PM.
https://linktr.ee/tehhnicus
Jesus is King stops black magic and closes portals
self diagnosed ASD, ADHD, schizotypal/affective
Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality
I want to care
if I was better I’d help you
if I was better you’d be better
Human Design 2/4 projector life path 1
Just an overview to keep in mind, Sx 5 is the definition of incelism.
Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel: "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."
Sx last could be the type that get married casually and forget about it later, and don’t have much need of changing relationship if it’s not too bad.
Sx first could be the type that often get into love relationships but somehow never get married or get married then divorced.
Not type related.
Then, the angel asked her what her name was. She said: "I have none"
I’m talking about people who are incel because they can’t flirt/attract anyone. What you’ve described sounds more like someone who’s voluntarily celibate or just struggling to find someone who’s compatible with themOriginally Posted by Snowgirl
would you say superficial flirting/“spitting game” is soc instinct then?
i feel like many women could just as easily be enthralled by the vitality and “realness” of some Soc-last men
Last edited by Averroes; 01-02-2023 at 12:59 PM.
Maybe inceldom is due to misprioritization. Do you want to get (physically) intimate with someone more than you want to project a certain future with them where everything runs smooth and noone ever gets hurt?
Is presence the essence of sex? @Shazaam
I think order doesnt matter for this case. They are probably sx negative though since they have a perception that they wont attract a mate, they may think they are dull, repelling, they may heard that they are unattractive when they grew up regardless that is the case or not.
For context, I come from a bit of a rough environment where men that are hyper masculine and live life a little fast/on the edge (which I associate with Sx) seem to have more sex, but I feel like that principle applies almost anywhere in the developed world to varying degrees. The suburban equivalent would be a skateboarder who’s always going to warehouse raves or just someone who’s passionate about something, has lived a full and varied life outside of the context of school and work and knows who he is and what he wants from life
Last edited by Averroes; 01-02-2023 at 01:22 PM.
maybe "some"
the one i know that kinda works for him is still only sometimes and he ends up rejecting almost everyone which may or may not be his fault i know hes a bit biased at least. but he also wants a single long term relationship nothing less.
i feel like it may be likely to be accused of harassment lol. while u are simultaenously unapproachable. if it works it would need to be the right person
https://linktr.ee/tehhnicus
Jesus is King stops black magic and closes portals
self diagnosed ASD, ADHD, schizotypal/affective
Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality
I want to care
if I was better I’d help you
if I was better you’d be better
Human Design 2/4 projector life path 1
wtf
I can't come up with any enneagram correlations for this phenomena. Thinking a bit, what I have come up with is that maybe being N and T correlates a bit with inceldom. Say, being N makes you bad at S, which are street smarts, and being T gives you poorer social skills. Then probably being Introvert also has an effect on confidence and social skills.
Enneagram 5's probably are likely to be "volcels" instead of incels.
Stacking wise, I guess so/sx is the least likely to be incel. But I kind of have an IEE-Fi so/sx in mind thinking this. Another type, maybe even ESI or IEI, might be withdrawn or insecure to the point that they do not engage other people easily.
The thing is, what is the reason somebody is incel? Is it because they're too picky (maybe E4 in trifix and sx preference)? Do they lack good looks(NTR)? Confidence (bad Se)? Social skills (ethics, especially Fe)? Too withdrawn (heavy introvert, E4, E5)? Too anxious (E6)? Too dismissive (Sp, E5, E9)?
What is the aim in relationships for the person in question? Sex? Companionship? Ego-stroking? So I guess the problem might be that what they intend to get, they are poorly equipped for obtaining. And that is mostly, probably NTR
Last edited by lavos; 01-03-2023 at 01:03 AM.
Then, the angel asked her what her name was. She said: "I have none"
Hmm, I think that Sx 5 is generally craving an elusive deep emotional connection, rather than necessarily a sexual one. Of course, there’s a lot of overlap between the two, but I feel that many Sx 5s would be less likely to be angry at people for ‘not providing them with sex’, and much more likely to simply be frustrated hopeless romantics.
If sex and connection are taken to be synonymous though, I feel there would still likely be a notable distinction. If the operative mode of incels is to say that “no one will have sex with me”, I think sx 5s would be much more likely to say “I can’t/won’t have sex with just anyone”. The sx 5 will often have a degree of agency here, rather than the stereotypical incel seemingly lacking it. The distinction may beg the question of “what is an incel”, as many sx 5s may be in the position of being celibate and preferring not be. However, being sexless and being an ‘incel’ seem to me like two very different things, as the latter carries with it a slew of connotations that need not accompany the former. Assuming the average sx 5 is of average attractiveness, and tends to be quite introverted, there would still be a substantial number of people who find them worth dating—they are simply victims of their own standards for what they desire in a partner. This is different from incels, imho—who seem to believe they are wholly lacking in desirability from anyone whatsoever, regardless of whether those individuals would meet any hypothetical standards. Apologies if I misinterpreted your post though, and for veering a bit off-topic.
Last edited by aciaradh; 01-03-2023 at 01:06 AM.
I don't think people like to choose between the two. In a normal healthy relationship they are intrinsically linked anyway. But incel/Narc Gigachad is kinda dual sides of the same coin- both don't really respect or value women & only see them as one thing, the GigaChad is just on a higher tier because at least they are getting the physical rush of sex. I would say it's kinda common for incels and GigaChads to be from the same socioeconomic class as well (more poor/working/middle class and not very wealthy) Uhhh, I don't want to say anything good about heterosexuality *wink* but you know, it is good for the immune system and flushes out toxins as well. Right? but GigaChad also has a higher chance of going to prison and losing his freedom as well.
I am kinda curious how often exactly an incel is actually dangerous - as I've heard arguements from both sides, that they are always dangerous - or they are just upset they are denied sex but don't do anything criminal or immoral about it. It kinda seems a high dimensionality Te thing to view them as serial killers & snub your noses at them ((uhh not that I think it's good to show them too much empathy or compassion either as obviously they are probably doing creepy/cringe-y things that make them unfuckable and it's their own fault)), and so with Te being my polr I don't really see that. I guess I like to treat people as individuals even if they are incels. I mean uh idk , I'm just used to some people treating me like Jeffrey Dahmer because we're both gay so I kinda have compassion somewhat. At the very least, I think it's eyeroll to think the Chad/Stacy talk is 'dark web' stuff- if the Illuminati thinks that is dark, they don't want to meet me. lol.
Aren't most people involuntarily celibate right before they have sex (maybe not so much those who do some tantric thing)? Where do we draw the line ?
False
Sx lasts don’t value fucking, they are soy enjoyers and revel in their estrogen, for instance Buddhist monks who have been castrated
yes, ofc it is. i mean i guess you can hologram presence in your mind's eye.
A distinction without a real purpose to distinct.
i think I look like someone who could have modest success (tall, mixed/light skinned black guy, have a developed sense of style that appeals to a certain niche, not a supermodel but decent looking enough facially supposedly, etc.), but struggle due to social anxiety and having no charisma/intrigue whatsoever. I’m a complete empty shell personality-wise and even give off virgin energy to some people. I’d imagine if I had Sx in my stacking, I’d be a lot more magnetic, dynamic, unself-conscious and capable of connecting with more women on an emotional level
i want all of the above. I just love women and (almost) everything that comes with being romantically involved with them
Last edited by Averroes; 01-05-2023 at 07:03 PM.
I suspect they are normalizing, harmonizing subtypes. This also applies to the phenomenon of 'simps'
my ideas about socionics:
https://soziotypen.de/thoughts-on-socionics/
the section will be updated ever other month or so.
this is a VI thread with IEI examples
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-(IEI-edition)
and this is a thread with EIE examples
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...s-EIE-examples
Incel is a virgin that tries real hard, but can't get any. If you don't try that doesn't count and if you've succeeded before, then apparently you're fakecel. True incels have serious problems that keep people away, I guess. So probably So last imo.
disclaimer: I don't know enneagram very well and probably don't know what I'm talking about. Just fyi.
attracting women is more Sx than So, imo. You can be an antisocial deadbeat and still be “that dude” if you’re a good intimate/one-on-one communicator. Soc without Sx keeps things surface level and boring
Last edited by Averroes; 01-06-2023 at 11:13 PM.
I'm not sure. Maybe you're right. But imagine an Sp/Sx or Sx/Sp with So last. Basically a weirdo with a fixation on intimate relationships. It's going to make it hard. An Sp/So or So/Sp is going to care about the social stuff that finding someone to get with probably isn't that hard and if they are Sx last, then they won't care about intense relationships and won't put as much stock into them like incels do. I might not be understanding enneagram though. Doesn't the last instinct mean it's also not valued or ignored? Why would Sx last care that much to begin with?
sx is not one to one communication so is
according to some sources
https://linktr.ee/tehhnicus
Jesus is King stops black magic and closes portals
self diagnosed ASD, ADHD, schizotypal/affective
Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality
I want to care
if I was better I’d help you
if I was better you’d be better
Human Design 2/4 projector life path 1
Sx/so and So/Sx = Least incel
Sp/Sx and Sx/Sp = serial monogamists who end up with someone on their wave length eventually and aren't stressing over hooking up with randoms but may still end up sleeping with a lot of people through intense flings that fizzle out quickly. They can be "weird" and rough around the edges, but they're authenticity and vulnerability draws the right people to them and leaves a strong impression. The type of person who could randomly meet and hit it off with their "soulmate" while shopping for groceries because they're always existentially open to their "object of desire" and aren't constrained by social anxiety or fear of revealing themselves
So/Sp and Sp/So = Hopeless when it comes to dating in their youth unless they're very physically attractive or rich. Don't understand chemistry. Come off stiff, wooden and asexual. Held back by an excessive sense of propriety that keeps them from taking risks and being fully themselves. Can be friendly and pleasant at their best, but it's not the kind of energy that gets a woman turned on
Last edited by Averroes; 01-07-2023 at 03:25 PM.
Maybe it's not that then. Men with Sx just have strong personalities which is what women are drawn to. It's so obvious that they're more attractive personality-wise than someone who's safe, stable and has lukewarm energy
ur talking in false rigidity
people with sx in their stacking can be found inappropriate, excessive, unreliable, unpleasant etc. ofc theres ppl who are gonna like some things more than others and then the same thing can have contradictory implications so its about who is someone as a person. ur conflating sx intensity wiht positive qualities like strong personality but it can also be a very weak one, anxious, self destructive, depraved
personality is maleable and u could argue it doesnt exist tho it exists but also doesnt and in between, if i had to guess ur failing to act the way u want to act which inspires all the negative spiraling thoughts that lead to other negative actions but its all interrelated negativity that just keeps feeding other negativity and to counter it u need faith or waht normies call confidence but in realityi ts narcissistic delusion. sometimes u need to believe smth will happe nthe way u want it to happen to manifest it and this may incldue things u conflate with ur personality or expression. when u start thinking u cant or arent a thing or that u are awkward or wsatvere u box urself in a rigid image and idea associations theres no such thing as "i am" in that sense u "are" until u "arent". u may feel off when u change the way u act think and reacet but it may be bc ur not used to it and havent build up a personality/patterns around the new expression/behavior and this makes u axnaious which triggers the old patterns again ur only stuck bc u've met a habitual loop of reexperiencing that which may be ur environments fault too but maybe u can change it
if ur limited with ur "personality" u will be only compatible with the people who are compatible with it.
chads can be and often are very weak and insecure but have that ^ narcisisstic delusions to cope with it thats why they're also toxic but this somehow comes out as a "strong" personality - to who tho?
ppl who act like they are worried about ur opinion of them constantly can be hard to deal with bc one way to deal with them is to ignore them and just keep expressing urself but then they may start to feel invalidated and refuse to disclose what their problems are if ur actually doing smth wrong and they may think its their fault theres a lot of toxic ppl and they may act like ur awkward and if ur not aware of whats what or havent developed a way to process it without destryoing urself u will keep thinking its ur faut
actually ive been worried to tell u i think u have distorted thinking and im getting angry at ur posts but this is how i feel about most Se egos
https://linktr.ee/tehhnicus
Jesus is King stops black magic and closes portals
self diagnosed ASD, ADHD, schizotypal/affective
Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality
I want to care
if I was better I’d help you
if I was better you’d be better
Human Design 2/4 projector life path 1
Afaik incels are pretty much part of a community...so, why an SX 1st would look to identify or care to being part of a community? It doesnt make sense. On the other hand SX is about intimacy and forming a deep bond with the other...not getting laid for the sake of it. I think most of ppl who identify or need to be part of a community around sex issues is So 1st, then maybe Sx 2nd.
huh, well I'm seeing contradictory conclusions, lol. So this clears up nothing for me. Are there agreed upon definitions and explanations for these things or are they pretty much just simple abstractions that are up for interpretation? It seem extraneous to add Sp,Sx,So to enneagram when it already has wings or even tritype. Does this help explain anything or is it like Gulenko adding DCNH when people already aren't sure about types yet?
Instincts influences the Enneagram, which results 3 subtypes that differ from each otherIt seem extraneous to add Sp,Sx,So to enneagram when it already has wings or even tritype.
For example, 1 Sp are the traditional "perfectionists": they feel inadequate no matter what they do , 1 Sx don't seek perfection in themselves but in others: these are the typical LSEs who yell at you and expect you to do what you can't do, 1 So are the ones who already see themselves as perfect and expect everyone to take them as a role model
Instinct also influences how to deal with the sin, for example 4 Sp deny their envy and don't recognize it easily, 4 Sx turn their envy into anger and hatred, and 4 So turn their envy into a sense of inferiority
However, what we are talking about in this post is based on a wrong theory that separates the enneagram from instincts and defines the social role and behavior of each instinct regardless of enneagram, it's kinda useless and contradicts the basic theory in some things, but it is more popular on this forum than the original theory
p.s : instincts in Enneagram are completely more important than wings
I think all three instincts are valued to a certain extent - the blind spot is just the least developed/intuitive one. There are plenty of Sp-lasts who are super invested in their fitness, their careers, obsessed with self-medicating and taking supplements, etc.
Sx-last could be someone who desperately wants companionship and intimacy but doesn’t understand how to achieve it, make himself stand out to potential partners, or be vulnerable vs. an Sx-first who suffers from making himself too vulnerable, standing out too much, and relationship trauma
Last edited by Averroes; 01-10-2023 at 04:56 PM.
Morrissey is the most obvious example of an So/Sp, and he made an entire career out of whining about being sexless and unlovable. I don’t know if any songwriter’s ever touched on the topic as poignantly and comprehensively as he has
Last edited by Averroes; 01-10-2023 at 04:34 PM.
I think this is actually the opposite. Not saying Sx first people make up a large portion of incels but that Sx first incels are usually the most incel-y of the incels.
It reminds me of this meme I saw about Sx doms somebody posted recently.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Enneagram/c...xdoms_be_like/
The incel 'community' insofar as a casual/colloquial representation of what that is (because I have never observed one so I can't say from experience) - actually seems pretty polarizing
btw, the first instinct is supposedly the area of 'neurosis' so I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of "incels" (male/female) were sx-doms! One person that comes to mind - of course, I don't mean to say any that he represents any involuntarily celibate person but - elliot rodger
also thismight be more of a +/- orientation thing bc I believe sx doms can also struggle with this - due to lack of self confidence, bullying, having negative beliefs about your own desirability being reinforced, clinical depression, etc.suffer from a lack of natural charisma, comfort in their own skin, and willingness to be polarizing and showcase their personality
Incel is a bullshit term, perpetuated by both the incels themselves, and the far left leaning people who like to browbeat disillusioned men.
Every man has agency to make the most of himself and attract a partner- hell, I've seen 5'4 hideous guys with wives who love them.
Men in that community are usually younger guys who have never been taught how to be a man- not surprising, considering there are no male role models in this society.
To answer your question, I'd say it's more likely they are Sx first and just can't be satisfied with their options.
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