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Thread: Part 1-Behind an ESIs judgmental glare; my impression/thoughts on each type.

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    Default Part 1-Behind an ESIs judgmental glare; my impression/thoughts on each type.

    Alpha Quadra; My least favorite Quadra. My impression from each member of this Quadra goes from complete torture to tolerable. General comments that can apply to each type in the alpha Quadra: shallow, lazy, and vibes.


    -ILE: Hell on Earth. Never like individuals of this typing. Every thing about them makes me stressed out and feel like gnashing my teeth together. Unlike other types, my experiences that come with age didnt help my tolerance for this type. Luckily in college, I can choose my surroundings and gladly ignore them. If forced in proximity like a job or assigned project, it becomes an either them or me mindset very quickly.


    -SEI: Foolish. ESI are known for their judgmental and condescending stare, and most of the time, Im not perceiving others in a self-righteous and haughty way, except in the case of SEI. I tend to see them as foolish, and thats me saying this politely. Comes off very self-pleasing and willfully ignorant, its worse when they try to portray themselves as innocent and selfless. Often find them repulsive and irritating.


    -LII; Bland. Despite my critical impression of LII, I frequently tend to befriend individuals of these types. Their impression doesnt change after befriending them, but their boring behavior isnt a negative to me, rather its how the relationship feels to me. These friendships are usually empty friendships; only friendships of convenience like having the same class, new hire at the same time. Our friendship dwindles out quickly if not tended to. Their passivity and weak morals is infuriating to me, as I consider those who allow evil more destructive than the evil itself, so I usually break friendships with them rather roughly. Overall, Im neutral to this type.


    -ESE; Tolerable. This type is unnoticeable to me unless forced proximity. Our differences is rather amusing to me and its funny to hear us compare the way we perceived the same event. I had a coworker of this type and I was able to appreciate her FE because although she was FI ignoring, it wasnt weak and she was able to recognize when to back off. Vice versa for her, I often recognized when I should play up my expression to ease the environment and her tension. But if there was a third party, well often end up talking to the third party and ignoring each other again.


    Beta Quadra; A favorable Quadra. Respect their work ethic and intensity, but can find the members exhausting to be around for long periods of time.


    -SLE; Volatile. At first, individuals of these types are not noticeable to me, but after awhile, male individuals of this type are rather attractive and the female individuals I develop a great admiration to me. The intense environment that they enforce, I thrive in, and so I like working around them even if they have small rules that I cant exactly comprehend. My attraction/admiration dwindles overtime when I realize that my presence makes them tense, which in turn makes me uncomfortable, so Ill eventually place distance. Had a boss of this type and it was awkward watching him hesitate to express his authority in my presence, and I often tried to minimize myself Everyone described him as intimidating and strict, but a good boss, which I knew he was, but I personally never witnessed it. I did witness his shifting eyes, his uncertainty to greet me, and awkward attempt at jokes that never made me even crack a smile. His stern, un-negotiable statements became more of a suggestions to me as time passed by.


    -IEI; Its complicated. IEIs, like LIIs, tend to be my friends. Fortunately these friendships tend to be better than LIIs, but not by much. These individuals ALWAYS approach me first and I often question their motives, while keeping them at an arms-distance. I always feel used by these types, but never could pinpoint why. Notice their manipulation on people, but I tend to tolerate it as well as their laziness. I can respect their romanticism of the world and whimsical personality.


    -EIE; Dont Know. Never had any significant interactions with members of this type, but what I read about this type, I have a favorable opinion.


    -LSI; Burdening. Have long-term friendships with this types. Love listening to their reasoning of things and respect their ability to stand behind it also. Conflict with this type are intense and can last for days, not just in Cold War, but actively disagreeing. Its thrilling and exhaustive at the same time. Feels like a productive workout after long engagement with this type. Men of this type, I tend to be attracted to as well. Women tend to be close friends, if not best friends. If there isnt a tense environment or conflict, this friendship can be straining to maintain at times, so petty arguments are often made to stir things up.

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    ILE - Every thing about them makes me stressed out and feel like gnashing my teeth together.
    conflictors are the most exotic types, and on the distance they are often quite charming (mostly of the preferred sex) - in more intimate communication what you describe becomes more usual. I usually like EIE women in more surface-level communications, I am intrigued and attracted to them

    ESI are known for their judgmental and condescending stare
    Fi types try the most to be kind and amiable, as a rule - ESI may easily judge and correct others (mostly those whom they know better, as they are introverts) on their ethical behaviour - with their perceptions of people usually being somewhat primitive and shallow with Ne in superego - but condescending is usually not their attitude towards others

    Despite my critical impression of LII, I frequently tend to befriend individuals of these types.
    superegos are hardly 'bland' (more like 'strange') and they're unlikely to be among frequent friends

    “Tolerable.” This type is unnoticeable to me unless forced proximity.
    extinguishment relations are perhaps the easiest from the opposing quadra in close relations, but they are a significant and constant strain like the others - to call them 'tolerable' is flattering, in my experience. from the opposing quadra most people are best kept at a greater distance than with other types

    -SLE; “Volatile.” At first, individuals of these types are not noticeable to me, but after awhile, male individuals of this type are rather attractive and the female individuals I develop a great admiration to me.
    Socionics traditionally ascribes a somewhat disdainful perception of the supervisee by the supervisor, but I have no significant experience with this. it's a more speculative area of ITR, as it ties in to the question of functional strength and importance. I have not noticed any particular attraction to LIE women, but more than one of ESE - my supervisor - has made me interested

    -EIE; “Don’t Know.”
    should be fairly positive for ESI on average, as you noted

    -LSI; “Burdening.”
    lookalikes may burden moderately in close relations, but close relations with these types are rare, anyways

    Love listening to their reasoning of things
    incidentally one of the most annoying aspects of LSI for ESI

    It’s thrilling
    conflict is less thrilling for Fi valuers, in general, at least not in any positive sense - especially not for introverts

    your perceptions of these ITR are not particularly fitting for ESI. mistypings are very common - it could be beneficial for you to create a thread with a typing video, for outside opinions. you make similar mistakes in your perception of what is typical for ESI as Lady Lunacy on this forum, a likely Fe type. this is a normal occurence, as there's no good and unanimous curating of good vs. bad sources when it comes to Socionics. I recommend you read Filatova's book, as a start

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    "conflictors are the most exotic types, and on the distance they are often quite charming " I have a rather realist view on people, so I'll hardly ever regard someone I don't have relations with as exotic or mysterious. It comes off a little bit "romanticizing." Even for the later Quadras, I describe no types like this, so I don't think this a matter of me identifying my conflictors incorrectly.

    About the condescending and judgmental comment, I have a satirical sense of humor. It's sprinkled throughout this entire post. The usage of the words "condescending" and "judgmental" was me mocking the overwhelming negative comments that I have seen about ESI. Stare was also included in my original sentence, which I was connecting to the infamous RBF. I didn't mention anything about behavior of an ESI.
    "
    superegos are hardly 'bland' (more like 'strange') " Once again, the word "strange" comes off very romanticizing. I'm describing people I've met and talked to; not a character in a book.
    Also, I actively seek Ti bases, hence, the frequent friendships with LSI and LII. I'm consciously aware of the differences and the miscommunication that happens, but I like the stress and headaches that Ti bases bring.

    Other than my friendships with the Ti bases, which I addressed, we're not drastically disagreeing here with my inter relations with the other types. Other than my description of LSI, there is not a really good reason for the suggestion of being a Fe. I believe my opinions of the two Fe-Ti quadra would be more positive if I had been an Fe user, but it's not. Although I haven't shared it yet, my opinions of the Gamma and Delta are way more positive.

    Perhaps I should add a disclaimer. I didn't create this thread for the purpose of a retype or questioning my type, but I didn't think I would have to state this as I didn't create a thread in "What's My Type?" Thanks though.

    Thank you for the book recommendation also. I was actually seeking for a socionics book.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nifl View Post
    incidentally one of the most annoying aspects of LSI for ESI
    Not really....Ive seen several ESIs liking to listen to LSI reasoning at length

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    Quote Originally Posted by seeking it View Post
    Not really....Ive seen several ESIs liking to listen to LSI reasoning at length
    it is likely that either one or both of the interlocutors were not the types you thought
    ESI have limited capability and tolerance for the style of reasoning of Ti types

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    Quote Originally Posted by nifl View Post
    it is likely that either one or both of the interlocutors were not the types you thought
    ESI have limited capability and tolerance for the style of reasoning of Ti types
    Says the theory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seeking it View Post
    Says the theory.
    you are free to reject the premise of ITR
    there's no objective proof of Socionics, only what your own common sense (or lack of it) tells you

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    Quote Originally Posted by nifl View Post
    you are free to reject the premise of ITR
    there's no objective proof of Socionics, only what your own common sense (or lack of it) tells you
    I mean I will believe my eyes before anything else, so like unless these abstract rules hold 100% of the time, what my eyes show me will take priority over them.

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    Go on with gamma, please.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    I’ve always liked to hear what ESIs think, for some reason. I’d love to hear your thoughts on the other two Quadras.

    I’m sure I’m an IEI, though some tell me I could also be IEE, SEI, or EII. As of now, I think IEI suits me best. I once made friends with an SLE guy (he was the one who got me into Socionics, and he himself told me he was SLE, which checks out); we got along very well from the start, which surprised me because he usually seemed very disagreeable. But there was a point where he almost sounded afraid of me, saying that he suddenly wasn’t sure if he trusted me, and that he felt as if I was trying to emotionally manipulate him. It made me feel strange, and I reassured him that I had nothing to gain from manipulating him in this way. He trusted me afterward; it was kind of easy to regain his trust. Our friendship faded away as he got busy with life, but I always remember him fondly, as angry as he often was.

    My point is—I never quite feel like I’m being emotionally manipulative with anyone, so the idea of IEIs being master manipulators always makes me laugh and wonder. Sometimes I ask myself if I am manipulative without realizing it. I sure hope not.
    Last edited by kuno; 12-08-2022 at 10:18 PM. Reason: Typo!

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    ILE: Either funny and sensible (Ti-sub) or annoying and uninteresting (Ne-sub)

    SEI: endearing. Sometimes envy them if they’re too suave

    LII: nice but boring and pedantic. Can never get a straight answer from them about anything

    ESE: Corny and too emotional. Can be extremely callous and patronizing to people that aren’t campy enough for them

    IEI: Endearing and wise. I like the balance some of them are able to strike between being dreamy/nerdy NFs and having street smarts

    SLE: Respect them but don’t trust them. Often see them as aspirational figures along with LSIs assuming they’re smart and aren’t complete demons. I'd like to be half as bold as some of them are

    LSI: Bland or just admirable, intense people

    EIE: Fascinating and probably my ideal female type

    LSE: Blowhards

    SLI: Kind of boring and overly masculine, but I usually like/respect them

    EII: Bland (Fi-sub) or endearing (Ne-sub)

    IEE: Mixed bag. Usually get along best with Sp-last E7s. Sometimes I’ll read them as being smug or secretly disapproving of me for being simple and crass
    Last edited by Averroes; 12-09-2022 at 05:25 PM.

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    I love ESIs savage takes on things. Its highly entertainingprobably my most favorable Fi type.

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    Gamma Quadra: My favorite Quadra. Like to be around members in this Quadra. It’s easy to be around these people. Appreciate their direct, goal-oriented nature.

    -SEE; “Satisfactory.” Tend to appreciate individuals of this type’s social ability and work ethic. These people are usually my favorite classmate, coworker, or acquaintance, but never really become my friends though. People like to talk about these individuals, usually gossiping, and I find myself persuading my friends to see them in a positive light. I have a difficult time seeing “negatives” about these people when others talk harshly of them. Had a coworker of this type, we worked well together with the occasional, small miscommunications.

    -ILI; “Entertaining.” People of this type are one of the few individuals that can make me laugh, and one of the two types that can make me smile even when I rather not. It’s fun to be around these types. I had a classmate of this type; our jokes will bounce off of each other. They always seem to get my humor. It’s easy to get along with these people. Getting close to them always looks like a better idea in my head, but when I start to become closer, reality doesn’t seem to match what I had in my head. It's like I overestimate how much we click and get caught off guard by our miscommunications. So I never properly befriend people of this type.

    -LIE; “Fondness.” The other type that makes me smile even when I rather not. People of this type tend to be, metaphorically, in my peripheral view. I notice them and take curious glances at these people, but we never seem to integrate unless life makes us. Had one as a coworker; he wasn’t one I was extremely friendly with, but in one of those rare moments when we were assigned to work together, I knew it was going to be a peaceful and a good day at work. We worked so well together that sometimes our section will be so quiet and calm, compared to the other groups. Sometimes I’ll turn around to get something and he was already handing it to me. It felt like we were in our own bubble when working with him. I worked at a cafe and it was always a LIE guest that could make me chuckle after four days of 10 hour shifts. Tend to remember them fondly, but they are not really in the focus of my mind when I leave their presence.

    -ESI; “You’re just like me!” It’s easy to talk to people of this type. Inside jokes are quickly made with this type. We often react the same to situations and make that “you see what I’m seeing” look to each other. The word “same” gets said a lot when we’re talking to each other. Had a friend that was dating an ESI and by the end of the year, I was closer to him than her, despite knowing her for almost a decade. It’s easy to create friendships with people of this type.

    Delta Quadra; Like this Quadra for their productivity and pragmatism, but also their humanity. Disagreements are rare with members with this Quadra, but it occurs.

    -IEE; “Parasitical” It’s impressive how quickly members of this type can trigger my temper. My impressions of these types are that they are lazy, sleezy, and absurd. My older brother is this type and my family makes the joke that “you can’t place us in a room together alone for longer than 2 minutes.” They talk about bettering the world, but it always comes off fake and self-righteous. They latch on people who listen to their delusions instead of taking care of themselves and being independent functional individuals. Automatic repulsion.

    -SLI; “Adequate.” Get along with people of this type, but it takes a lot of work on my end. I find myself tolerating these individuals rather than enjoying their presence. Their excessive needs for comfort and slow movements annoy me; find it very difficult to work with them. My younger sister is of this type and we get along. Most topics that she finds enjoyable are a bore to me and same for me as well. Our disagreements are rare and often short-lived, but sometimes we can have our own Cold War.

    -LSE; “Respect.” Appreciate this type for the structure that they provide and productivity. When around this type, I become more playful than I would consider characteristic of myself. Even from a distance, I tend to respect members of this type, especially the way that they speak. My mom is this type and we get along very well. Hardly disagree with each other and find it easy to adapt to each other, even when we have disagreements. Had a boss of this type as well. Coincidentally, I was both their “favorite.”

    -EII; “Pleasant.” Like people of this type and like their duals, I like the way they speak. We get along very well and when we have disagreements, I tend to not think of it as a big deal. I had a close friend of this type. On first impressions, I didn’t want to get close to her, but after awhile, she was somewhat insistent which was odd because she spoke so softly and blushed when I looked at her too directly. But unlike the IEI that approaches me first, I didn’t feel icky when the EII was attempting to get closer to me. We had the strangest conversations with each other; it was like we created our own safe environment with each other. Very calm friendship.


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    A Gamma surrounded by two Delta siblings, huh? And one is an IEE… must be tough for you.

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    I think SF/NF kindred does sound better than NT/NF kindred :/ appreciated the SEI comments..

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    ESI: Either boring or the living embodiment of everything I wish I was if they’re charismatic and atrractive

    SEE: Likable psychopaths

    ILI: weird/schizoid and looks like he doesn’t shower, but easy to talk to

    LIE: don’t have much experience with them
    Last edited by Averroes; 12-09-2022 at 05:11 PM.

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    Princess Mononoke does look like ESI Se - D

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    Quote Originally Posted by kuno View Post
    I’ve always liked to hear what ESIs think, for some reason. I’d love to hear your thoughts on the other two Quadras.

    I’m sure I’m an IEI, though some tell me I could also be IEE, SEI, or EII. As of now, I think IEI suits me best. I once made friends with an SLE guy (he was the one who got me into Socionics, and he himself told me he was SLE, which checks out); we got along very well from the start, which surprised me because he usually seemed very disagreeable. But there was a point where he almost sounded afraid of me, saying that he suddenly wasn’t sure if he trusted me, and that he felt as if I was trying to emotionally manipulate him. It made me feel strange, and I reassured him that I had nothing to gain from manipulating him in this way. He trusted me afterward; it was kind of easy to regain his trust. Our friendship faded away as he got busy with life, but I always remember him fondly, as angry as he often was.

    My point is—I never quite feel like I’m being emotionally manipulative with anyone, so the idea of IEIs being master manipulators always makes me laugh and wonder. Sometimes I ask myself if I am manipulative without realizing it. I sure hope not.
    I wouldn't say emotionally manipulative, but I think it's something about their Fe that rubs me the wrong way. They approach me seemingly trying to "lighten me up" and I feel like if the IEI hadn't done that before they made their request, I wouldn't have cared, but since they did, I feel "off." Creative Fe gives me of the "gross" feeling than Base Fe for some reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmira View Post
    I wouldn't say emotionally manipulative, but I think it's something about their Fe that rubs me the wrong way. They approach me seemingly trying to "lighten me up" and I feel like if the IEI hadn't done that before they made their request, I wouldn't have cared, but since they did, I feel "off." Creative Fe gives me of the "gross" feeling than Base Fe for some reason.
    I can see why you’d think that. I occasionally do approach people like that, but it’s usually when the mood is right and with somebody who I know appreciates that sort of approach. With most people, I try to sorta mold myself to their vibe or heed the prevailing emotional atmosphere. I don’t want to come off as strange, bothersome, or out-of-touch, haha. Maybe that’s just me being a 9w1 or whateva.

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    In my experience, IEI do come with the intent to blend into the emotional atmosphere, but often I don't have one, therefore, they, unintentionally, create one. For example, if I'm watching a performance, taking a backseat in my friend group socializing, a IEI could misinterpret me being "unimpressed" by the performance or my friend group. Then they'll say something like "Today is not really their best haha, right?" This puts me in an awkward situation as an Fe ignoring. I either didn't think much at all of the performance or was actually enjoying it, but now I am in a position to express an emotion I wasn't even feeling. Luckily, I'm usually surrounded by people who enjoy Fe and can go back to my backseat while they socialize with the IEI. If I happen to be alone, I usually just hum back in response before disappearing.

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    Oh yeah, I consider myself guilty of doing that from time to time. I guess I often have this thing in my mind (I guess it’s sort of a principle) that wants to include everyone in the social atmosphere, so no one gets left behind. But sometimes I don’t realize that some people prefer to be in the background and observe without being expected to turn themselves “on” to socialize. I know I occasionally surprise or slightly bug some people with this behavior of mine, so nowadays I tend to try not to intrude on people while they’re having a “backseat” moment (as you say). Sometimes I fail in this regard, though.

    I do wonder why Fe-base individuals are less likely to be this way (at least in your experience). I have a friend who’s likely Fe-base (though ofc I may be wrong), and she seems less likely to intrude on a backseat moment than me. I feel like I sometimes try a little too hard with my Fe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmira View Post
    In my experience, IEI do come with the intent to blend into the emotional atmosphere, but often I don't have one, therefore, they, unintentionally, create one. For example, if I'm watching a performance, taking a backseat in my friend group socializing, a IEI could misinterpret me being "unimpressed" by the performance or my friend group. Then they'll say something like "Today is not really their best haha, right?" This puts me in an awkward situation as an Fe ignoring. I either didn't think much at all of the performance or was actually enjoying it, but now I am in a position to express an emotion I wasn't even feeling. Luckily, I'm usually surrounded by people who enjoy Fe and can go back to my backseat while they socialize with the IEI. If I happen to be alone, I usually just hum back in response before disappearing.
    i hated it when ppl did it to me bc i felt like they were trying to manipulate me too much. but then i started doing it to others to troll them. ESI was def a favourite he stood still and staring in the distance in a very edgy dramatic way hwo can anyone hold backkk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmira View Post
    I wouldn't say emotionally manipulative, but I think it's something about their Fe that rubs me the wrong way. They approach me seemingly trying to "lighten me up" and I feel like if the IEI hadn't done that before they made their request, I wouldn't have cared, but since they did, I feel "off." Creative Fe gives me of the "gross" feeling than Base Fe for some reason.
    Can you say more on how Creative Fe is more gross to you with that? Like can you describe some actual example, situation, observations?

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    there's unlikely to be any intrinsic difference between ''base'' and ''creative'' Fe. there's ego (strong, valued) Fe, and the attitude of introverts combined with it. the difference in strength (''dimensionality'') is IMO negligible, undetectable in practice. some Socionics theory is extremely speculative and shouldn't just be swallowed raw
    if Elmira is ESI then what is more attractive in base Fe types is the extraversion and rationality

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    huh, I see. 🧐
    It's interesting that superegos feel almost the same about each other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nifl View Post
    there's unlikely to be any intrinsic difference between ''base'' and ''creative'' Fe. there's ego (strong, valued) Fe, and the attitude of introverts combined with it. the difference in strength (''dimensionality'') is IMO negligible, undetectable in practice. some Socionics theory is extremely speculative and shouldn't just be swallowed raw
    if Elmira is ESI then what is more attractive in base Fe types is the extraversion and rationality
    Well whatever Elmira perceives has to be real, existing, no matter how we label it, and I was/am curious as to what her perception is.

    You yourself mention rationality, I am sure that will affect a lot in manifesting stuff, also Fe creative doesn't always pay attention to the "Fe stuff", which again should matter in ways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seeking it View Post
    Well whatever Elmira perceives has to be real, existing, no matter how we label it, and I was/am curious as to what her perception is.

    You yourself mention rationality, I am sure that will affect a lot in manifesting stuff, also Fe creative doesn't always pay attention to the "Fe stuff", which again should matter in ways.
    all Fe types pay attention to the ''Fe stuff'' more than the others. the difference in strength and manifestation between the base and creative is negligible in practice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nifl View Post
    all Fe types pay attention to the ''Fe stuff'' more than the others. the difference in strength and manifestation between the base and creative is negligible in practice.
    We will just disagree here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seeking it View Post
    We will just disagree here.
    with Socionics, it's the usual story
    there's no objective proof to rely on, and people subscribe to widely differing schools, methods and observations.

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    Where is the Part 2?
    Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel: "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."

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    Quote Originally Posted by seeking it View Post
    Can you say more on how Creative Fe is more gross to you with that? Like can you describe some actual example, situation, observations?
    I slightly briefed over this difference in this thread. My roommate's friend is a SEI, but I see her frequently as she comes over many times and on a few occasions, I hung out with my roommate's friend group. There have been multiple occasions where she triggered an "ew" reaction from me. Once I was chilling on the couch, watching a show and my roommate and she came in full with laughter and giggles. My head turned towards the noise and once her eyes met mines, I noticed that her smiling expression morphed into a sad one. I could see why she interpreted the emotional atmosphere as a sad one because I didn't return her smile, due to my native culture, I sometimes forget to place a polite American smile on my face, especially at my home. It didn't help my natural face expression looks rather solemn.
    This change in her face expression triggered the "ew" as I knew it was inauthentic, but I considered this shift in emotions to mirror mines, invasive and almost too personal. Even though she didn't perceive the correct emotion, the attempt to amplify my emotion seemed very ethically wrong to me.

    It has been a problem at my job before. I hated when my coworker kept perceiving what I was feeling and amplifying it, like a small smile on my face doesn't need to be pointed out and laughed out rambunctiously to say that the joke was funny. In my opinion, this behavior is socially inappropriate.

    While Fe bases, it's like they come with an emotional atmosphere rather than trying to match your own or perceive your own, one they believe is objective and best suitable. This is less gross to me because its not personal and I tend to ignore their attempts to match my expression with the desired atmosphere. After a one or two attempts, Fe bases tend to ignore my unresponsiveness and we just ignore each other. So they are less likely to have a negative impression from me, but rather they leave an indifferent one.
    Last edited by Elmira; 12-21-2022 at 02:52 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Where is the Part 2?
    I forgot I titled it as "Part One" and initially planned to have Alpha/Beta and Gamma/Delta in two different threads. Instead, I accidentally responded with "Part Two" in the same thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmira View Post
    I slightly briefed over this difference in this thread. My roommate's friend is a SEI, but I see her frequently as she comes over many times and on a few occasions, I hung out with my roommate's friend group. There have been multiple occasions where she triggered an "ew" reaction from me. Once I was chilling on the couch, watching a show and my roommate and she came in full with laughter and giggles. My head turned towards the noise and once her eyes met mines, I noticed that her smiling expression morphed into a sad one. I could see why she interpreted the emotional atmosphere as a sad one because I didn't return her smile, due to my native culture, I sometimes forget to place a polite American smile on my face, especially at my home. It didn't help my natural face expression looks rather solemn.
    This change in her face expression triggered the "ew" as I knew it was inauthentic, but I considered this shift in emotions to mirror mines, invasive and almost too personal. Even though she didn't perceive the correct emotion, the attempt to amplify my emotion seemed very ethically wrong to me.

    It has been a problem at my job before. I hated when my coworker kept perceiving what I was feeling and amplifying it, like a small smile on my face doesn't need to be pointed out and laughed out rambunctiously to say that the joke was funny. In my opinion, this behavior is socially inappropriate.

    While Fe bases, it's like they come with an emotional atmosphere rather than trying to match your own or perceive your own, one they believe is objective and best suitable. This is less gross to me because its not personal and I tend to ignore their attempts to match my expression with the desired atmosphere. After a one or two attempts, Fe bases tend to ignore my unresponsiveness and we just ignore each other. So they are less likely to have a negative impression from me, but rather they leave an indifferent one.
    I appreciate this detailed answer a lot. I will have to see if I can observe anyone trying to amplify emotions like that....I can't think of an example where anyone tried to amplify mine. I know people who can read even small signs of emotion off my face even without directly looking so much at me lol. (I am not a very expressive person. And those small signs are not noticed by a lot of people. I MYSELF might fail to notice the feeling inside me if not intense enough but some of these people can read it even then.) But amplifying it hmm...idk I can't recall them or anyone else doing that.

    Would this count, I remember this, I was sorta a fan of a famous cat that died one day. And someone I know knew I liked that cat, and he goes like, I run into him and he says the cat died and then makes an effort to act some kind of sad expression but to me it felt so dramatic in a way lol. He focused so much to act that expression properly, it was funny to me, observing that. Would you say that fits Fe creative? I don't think I was feeling sad at all in that moment tbh. So I couldn't have been expressing any sadness on my face or my body language. Perhaps in response to him noting the news, I don't know? Like maybe I automatically showed a little sadness to respond to what he said. I didn't notice feeling sad internally, for sure. But again I can fail to notice my less intense feelings. Anyway please let me know what you think about this example.

    In your example about the roommate's friend turning sad from smiling, I would just read that kind of thing as them feeling for me. Which is a nice thing really, feeling for/with other people. I mean if I was to show so much sadness lol. That doesn't happen often. So anyway maybe your idea/experience of amplifying feelings, maybe I just read it as them feeling for me and expressing that. And I can appreciate that sometimes, it seems like a very social and very normal thing to me (not always appropriate in all circumstances of course but I mean it can be really appropriate in some cases). Not saying these people are Fe creative though

    I will add one last thing; the people I mentioned above who can read small expressions from my face even when I'm unaware of them or only vaguely and slightly aware....so they don't amplify it or whatever, they can be just like they mention it to me later if the topic somehow comes up, or there was this one example where they mentioned it to someone else in the room (these were family members BTW so it was appropriate), "she's sad", and then the other person did think of why I could be sad and then it actually led to a good thing (I don't want to elaborate too long on this example so I'll stop here). So this family member made good things happen rather than amplify anything or even just go up to me to stare at me and to amplify it or feel for me by mirroring my sadness.

    It has been a problem at my job before. I hated when my coworker kept perceiving what I was feeling and amplifying it, like a small smile on my face doesn't need to be pointed out and laughed out rambunctiously to say that the joke was funny. In my opinion, this behavior is socially inappropriate.
    Just for clarification, did you do the joke yourself or did someone else do it and you smiled in response before the Fe creative coworker amplified it?
    Last edited by seeking it; 12-21-2022 at 09:22 PM.

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    Behind the Resting Bitch Face "glare":
    "Oooh, those are pretty colors." "Hmm, should I make tacos or order something to-go from that one restaurant?" "The weather is nice today. A nice fall breeze that puts some pep in my step." "I like that girl's outfit."
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    Quote Originally Posted by seeking it View Post
    I appreciate this detailed answer a lot. I will have to see if I can observe anyone trying to amplify emotions like that....I can't think of an example where anyone tried to amplify mine. I know people who can read even small signs of emotion off my face even without directly looking so much at me lol. (I am not a very expressive person. And those small signs are not noticed by a lot of people. I MYSELF might fail to notice the feeling inside me if not intense enough but some of these people can read it even then.) But amplifying it hmm...idk I can't recall them or anyone else doing that.

    Would this count, I remember this, I was sorta a fan of a famous cat that died one day. And someone I know knew I liked that cat, and he goes like, I run into him and he says the cat died and then makes an effort to act some kind of sad expression but to me it felt so dramatic in a way lol. He focused so much to act that expression properly, it was funny to me, observing that. Would you say that fits Fe creative? I don't think I was feeling sad at all in that moment tbh. So I couldn't have been expressing any sadness on my face or my body language. Perhaps in response to him noting the news, I don't know? Like maybe I automatically showed a little sadness to respond to what he said. I didn't notice feeling sad internally, for sure. But again I can fail to notice my less intense feelings. Anyway please let me know what you think about this example.

    In your example about the roommate's friend turning sad from smiling, I would just read that kind of thing as them feeling for me. Which is a nice thing really, feeling for/with other people. I mean if I was to show so much sadness lol. That doesn't happen often. So anyway maybe your idea/experience of amplifying feelings, maybe I just read it as them feeling for me and expressing that. And I can appreciate that sometimes, it seems like a very social and very normal thing to me (not always appropriate in all circumstances of course but I mean it can be really appropriate in some cases). Not saying these people are Fe creative though

    I will add one last thing; the people I mentioned above who can read small expressions from my face even when I'm unaware of them or only vaguely and slightly aware....so they don't amplify it or whatever, they can be just like they mention it to me later if the topic somehow comes up, or there was this one example where they mentioned it to someone else in the room (these were family members BTW so it was appropriate), "she's sad", and then the other person did think of why I could be sad and then it actually led to a good thing (I don't want to elaborate too long on this example so I'll stop here). So this family member made good things happen rather than amplify anything or even just go up to me to stare at me and to amplify it or feel for me by mirroring my sadness.



    Just for clarification, did you do the joke yourself or did someone else do it and you smiled in response before the Fe creative coworker amplified it?
    Yes, that would count. The story with the cat is exactly how I would describe a creative Fe to behave.

    About the roommate's friend, in my opinion, her mirroring "my" emotions was irrational. There was no valid reasons in my surroundings neither did she know me well enough to predict how I would behave if I was upset, so it came off rather dumb and phony. It was "amplifying" in my opinion because it was far too dramatic of an expression for the little reasoning, other than my natural somber expression, to know that there was anything to be sad about. In that situation, I felt like I should force a little sadness to avoid placing her in an awkward position, but I decided against it and proceeded to cheerily greet my roommate.
    I also must note, I've never seen the merit of sharing people's emotions. This isn't something that requires a kind character or deep affection for someone, we as people are equipped with mirror neurons. So in opinion, its not a "nice" thing to do instead its just a thing people do.


    Another coworker made the joke and I smiled in response. When she pointed me out, I felt like I was in position to laugh even more as if I was having difficulty expressing myself and this coworker was simply helping to draw me in the group, but I wasn't. I could see this working with someone who was restraining their emotions or aloof to them, this would make them feel at ease to express themselves more, but for me, I just felt pressure to dramatize my response. So in turn, I felt like it was wrong to put me on the spotlight because now I feel an urgency to "perform."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmira View Post
    Yes, that would count. The story with the cat is exactly how I would describe a creative Fe to behave.
    What would Fe base do there instead? (Stereotypically)


    About the roommate's friend, in my opinion, her mirroring "my" emotions was irrational. There was no valid reasons in my surroundings neither did she know me well enough to predict how I would behave if I was upset, so it came off rather dumb and phony. It was "amplifying" in my opinion because it was far too dramatic of an expression for the little reasoning, other than my natural somber expression, to know that there was anything to be sad about. In that situation, I felt like I should force a little sadness to avoid placing her in an awkward position, but I decided against it and proceeded to cheerily greet my roommate.

    I also must note, I've never seen the merit of sharing people's emotions. This isn't something that requires a kind character or deep affection for someone, we as people are equipped with mirror neurons. So in opinion, its not a "nice" thing to do instead its just a thing people do.
    Um, I don't see how mirror neurons are relevant here... Fi is also based in some neurons just like Fe is. But I found your assessment very interesting, of how it could be intrusive or inappropriate, that behaviour by the roommate's friend.

    Are you saying that she used a pretty big (exaggerated) expression?


    Another coworker made the joke and I smiled in response. When she pointed me out, I felt like I was in position to laugh even more as if I was having difficulty expressing myself and this coworker was simply helping to draw me in the group, but I wasn't. I could see this working with someone who was restraining their emotions or aloof to them, this would make them feel at ease to express themselves more, but for me, I just felt pressure to dramatize my response. So in turn, I felt like it was wrong to put me on the spotlight because now I feel an urgency to "perform."
    Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by she "pointed out" your smile - what did she do? Did she make a verbal comment on it?

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    Have no idea what an Fe base would do. I don't befriend extroverts.

    Are you saying that she used a pretty big (exaggerated) expression?
    Yes, it was a big exaggerated expression. She looked like she was on the brink of tears.

    Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by she "pointed out" your smile - what did she do? Did she make a verbal comment on it?
    Yes, she made a verbal comment on it. "Look [my name] is laughing too! haha" while obnoxiously gesturing towards me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmira View Post
    Have no idea what an Fe base would do. I don't befriend extroverts.
    OK. I apologise but I forgot to emphasise this one major thing. That I likely did not show any expression that he would have amplified. In which case he would have had to do the expression "from scratch". I am not aware if Fe base does drama like this, so I was basically asking if they do.

    So like, you mentioned Fe bases also try to include you into the emotional atmosphere in the "room" in public (before giving up on it with you), don't they exaggerate anything at all like that in your perception?

    And I do understand what you mean by Fe base not making the room's atmosphere anything personal. But this interaction I described was between family members, so it will be a personal interaction by definition (between two people closeish enough). EDIT: Ooops, sorry I forgot to mention that too, that it was family, at home in the family house.

    The rest is awesomely clear, thank you for the answers.
    Last edited by seeking it; 01-04-2023 at 04:29 PM.

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    Drama does not equal Fe.

    That this meme has continued on this site for years is unfortunate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmira View Post



    Beta Quadra; A favorable Quadra. Respect their work ethic and intensity, but can find the members exhausting to be around for long periods of time.


    -SLE; Volatile. At first, individuals of these types are not noticeable to me, but after awhile, male individuals of this type are rather attractive and the female individuals I develop a great admiration to me. The intense environment that they enforce, I thrive in, and so I like working around them even if they have small rules that I cant exactly comprehend. My attraction/admiration dwindles overtime when I realize that my presence makes them tense, which in turn makes me uncomfortable, so Ill eventually place distance. Had a boss of this type and it was awkward watching him hesitate to express his authority in my presence, and I often tried to minimize myself Everyone described him as intimidating and strict, but a good boss, which I knew he was, but I personally never witnessed it. I did witness his shifting eyes, his uncertainty to greet me, and awkward attempt at jokes that never made me even crack a smile. His stern, un-negotiable statements became more of a suggestions to me as time passed by.

    Yes.

    You know SLEs well.

    Their ever tightening "rules" I usually see right through and I tend to agree with you. In the end you make your supervisee uncomfortable. Its like the supervisor is the stick in the mud that causes the supervisee to constantly doubt, or question themselves. Behaviourally they become more neurotic. With SLE, they tend to become more quiet, reserved, un able to gauge where the ESI fits in in regards to asking them how to do things, if the SLE is in the superior social role.

    Simply put "she is on-board, but I can't tell how to control her, she is to independent. Is she with me, or against me?, Is she with us, or against us?"

    Lots of times SLE will start to "act -out" in order to illicit a Fe response. To the ESI, the heightened behavioural obnoxiousness of SLE in order to get "good Fe" ie: Laughter, falls on deaf ears. As ESI searches for "good Te" - "how do I this?" "what are the details for the day's work?", from the SLE's point of view, it "feels" judgmental and overly serious. From the SLE's perspective Te "just happens" as things unfold.

    Further, Ep, Ij differences are apparent here. ESTp prefers to adhoc and quickly move at the drop of a hat in order to organize and strategize. ESI prefers higher levels of proficiency, or else fears the demonstrative Te is not enough of a long term, sustainable condition. Under these conditions, SLE feels mistrusted, which undermines their confidence in themselves. Although, ESI being Fi is all to aware of this effect, yet all efforts to counter it feel disingenuous from the ESI perspective.

    The trick is to appease SLE sense of worth, while remaining seemingly indifferent to any problems that arise, be it between people (interpersonal), or logistical (the days Te). To many problems starts to demoralize the supervisee in this case, as they are orientated to positivity and forecasts of "good out comes" (or at the least, the illusion of such).

    The alternative for both is to become brother in arms, via a sense of building camaraderie. This would require a personal sacrifice on ESI's part. But the damage is far less than it is when the SLE is the one sacrificing.
    Last edited by timber; 01-04-2023 at 07:41 PM.

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