Which type has the worst relationships?

[seeking it]

For example, relationships regularly ending with sudden trauma, with person never knowing the friend's/partner's/etc real attitude towards them (i.e if they are actually loved), where said trauma is impossible to process ever or processing takes forever because of large delay in emotionally responding, never feeling satisfied or properly attached and fully trusting to really open up, with zero positive subjective (internal) experience of the relationships, relationships consisting of person being constantly emotionally manipulated into attentiveness, performing the resulting obligations without getting much back, people leeching off person's vitality and energy and emotions in the relationships, and so on.

These are just some examples I thought of to try to make up what the worst possible relationships would look like You can add more and you can give your reasoning for which type has the worst relationships and why. Note I'm not asking about the type that's the worst at relationships. But you can add that too

[Psychoblimp]

I always get into bad relationships. Autistic Covert Narcissist w/ an Autistic Borderline - Wasn't going to work out from the beginning.

She would find reasons to be paranoid about me leaving (I text too late, I miss calls, I make jokes about other people at work that she thinks I'm flirting with, etc). I'd tell her no, that's not true. She'd persist and tell me how all her previous bf's cheated or abused her, and how she didn't want me to do the same. I'd tell her I love her, and I wouldn't do such things. She'd then continue to find reasons why I was cheating on her. She'd talk to all her friends about me and got them to believe that I was cheating on her. I started to get annoyed, so I started dressing provocatively in public with her, just so I could show off and prove her right. She'd tell me I shouldn't dress so slutty and that she thinks I'm trying to find other women. I just told her if she wants to complain about me cheating then maybe I should. (I wasn't, but I threatened at this point). She then asks for me to not do this, and that she believes me that I'm not cheating. I start acting normally, but then she again finds reasons that I'm not being honest with her. I start masturbating alone so I don't have to have sex with her. I don't feel interested at this point, and feel unstable with her. She tells me I shouldn't masturbate because she deserves sex from me, and feels unloved. I tell her that I don't want to have sex with her, that I'm not into her anymore. She tries to convince me that I'm still in love with her, that I'm just being dishonest. I then lie and tell her maybe I do love her, just so I can keep her for myself (because I wanted someone) And it goes on for awhile... 10/10 experience wouldn't do again though.

We did make a lovely song together, but I don't think we ever uploaded it, sadly. I liked it a lot.

[pasleine]

For example, relationships regularly ending with sudden trauma, with person never knowing the friend's/partner's/etc real attitude towards them (i.e if they are actually loved), where said trauma is impossible to process ever or processing takes forever because of large delay in emotionally responding, never feeling satisfied or properly attached and fully trusting to really open up, with zero positive subjective (internal) experience of the relationships, relationships consisting of person being constantly emotionally manipulated into attentiveness, performing the resulting obligations without getting much back, people leeching off person's vitality and energy and emotions in the relationships, and so on.

These are just some examples I thought of to try to make up what the worst possible relationships would look like You can add more and you can give your reasoning for which type has the worst relationships and why. Note I'm not asking about the type that's the worst at relationships. But you can add that too

my gut reaction was type dynamics > types themselves as i think the energy a person is surrounded by affects their coping skills (but maybe i'm wrong)
i've seen many many bad relationships in life, but no particular type pattern (off the top of my head), except that most were E/I and T/F pairings
thinking of major public relationships like courtney love and kurt cobain, you could say that was a terrible relationship but they technically did complete each other (ESTp + INFp)
there was another Beta Dual relationship i was looking at the other day but i can't recall... but it was kind of a "public disaster" too. maybe that is simply the role of the Beta though, to invoke chaos, or maybe those people were outliers. i dunno.
i have a consistent pattern of there existing a "third party" that i get extremely jealous of in like every relationship ever that i've had, but astrology seems to cover that for me better than socionics (i think it's my venus-pluto aspects), socionics doesn't really mention such things for EII so yeah...
i would say i'm not good at relationships, but i don't know if i'm the "worst" (unless you count not participating as the worst, in which case...maybe LII and i are tied)

[Eliza Thomason]

I don't have the answer you are looking for but I will share my thought on it anyway.

What I love about Socionics is the great equality of it as to relations. Not counting that some types are slightly more more rare than others, we all have about the same possibility of running into people that can't stand us for who we are naturally and those who think we are fantastic for who we are naturally. The same chance of finding a Dual or a Conflictor as any other type. In each dual pair there is the one less likely to nab their dual the (I) but their partner has the get up and go pull reel their Dual in(E). We all have the same chance for the same amount of not-so-great and pretty-good relations as anyone else.

The percent goes down for reasons not type-related, like mental illness, most often coming from early family of origin experiences. But also Dual relations are the most psychologically healing. And also, God can make us whole, including the pain and dysfunction of our past.

Throwing it off in the other direction is being extra attractive. When many people just love you, you can get confused on which one is best. All types can try harder to persuade you.

For everyone it is best to delay intimacy because it is harder to end things when your heart gets attached through intimacy. You can evaluate a person better and with better reason when you aren't caught up in aroused hormones.

Once, after being some years into a marriage that was very difficult, my friend, in a wonderful (Dual) marriage, said she could have been in my shoes, as in college she had dated a young man who showed similar NPD characteristics as my husband, but she escaped it just before meeting her now-husband. I said how did you know? She credited to a scripture her mother had always impressed on her, to guard her heart. It struck my heart that this was the answer. Some variations of that scripture, Proverbs 4:23, are below.

KJV: "Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life."
NLT: "Guard your heart above all else, for it determines the course of your life."
Geneva Bible of 1587: "Keepe thine heart with all diligence: for thereout commeth life."

[Sol]

in general and average, can be linked with T. exist non-types factors too
relations of concrete people have significant IR influence

[fenix]

I've been on both sides of the coin - in relationships that took a toll and in ones that felt like a breath of fresh air. It's incredibly challenging to navigate toxic connections, especially when you're stuck in the middle of it. And from my personal encounters, I've realized that toxicity doesn't discriminate.


It isn't about the 'worst type' in relationships but more about recognizing those detrimental patterns and understanding one's worth.


I have been in a relationship with my girlfriend for 3 years, and in the first year, I can say that we had a toxic relationship. We're always arguing about childish things. It was in COVID-19 time, so we found online couples counseling and decided to try it. Our therapist introduced us to some hearing techniques that taught us to talk to each other and communicate.


In this way, we started to understand each other better and solved all our problems without arguing. It was a great experience that taught me that communication is the key to a healthy relationship.

[Chae]

i'd argue for polr types, as that's the element of interpersonal distance to begin with.

[The Reality Denialist]

Supposedly many EXE have issues and XLEs. If Fi ignoring gets damaged they may go through lots of weird events. Fi PoLR I'd say "whoops I did it again but let's look for a new one" (on a divorce).

[Expansion]

Fi PoLR accounts for 1 out of 8 people, and the divorce rate is half failures, so the trick is maturity in both sides, meaning they know who they are, and that translates into knowing what works or what won't. Instinctively you should know it's going to line up in the roll out of time, that is the best gamble: maturity.

MBTI USA stats reveal N to N and S to S stay together the longest, there is little correlation otherwise.

J P I E mean little.

[Muira]

Fi PoLR accounts for 1 out of 8 people, and the divorce rate is half failures, so the trick is maturity in both sides, meaning they know who they are, and that translates into knowing what works or what won't. Instinctively you should know it's going to line up in the roll out of time, that is best the gamble: maturity.

MBTI USA stats reveal N to N and S to S stay together the longest, there is little correlation otherwise.

J P I E mean little.

Well marriage doesn't have to involve love, just another social construct and contract that has a lot of benefits, but can be better off when love is involved. I only would take marriage more seriously if there were more legal consequences, like a tract record. I do personally fear that my current relationship could affect my future relationships if that specific relationship failed, so I can see having a track record of things like wanting to throw someone out because they became boring(I've done that), adultery(Just leave , etc, would make everyone more cautious with whom they marry.

[timber]

@OP.

Ya. Pretty much.



</3

[on a peaceful hiatus]

Fi PolR, Fi Role, Fi ignoring, also Se valuing types

[SacredKnowing]

It doesn't make logical sense to ask this question because all intertype relations under Socionics are symmetrical. In Socionics, everyone has a dual, everyone has a conflictor, and everyone gets along well with members of their own quadra and has middling to bad relationships with members of other quadras. You can, however, ask

1. Given a society, which sociotype is most likely to thrive/prosper in said society?
2. Posit an alternative interpretation of Socionics where intertype relations are unsymmetrical and then ask in that theory how many intertype relationships are high quality.

[godslave]

It doesn't make logical sense to ask this question because all intertype relations under Socionics are symmetrical. In Socionics, everyone has a dual, everyone has a conflictor, and everyone gets along well with members of their own quadra and has middling to bad relationships with members of other quadras.

I was about to post something similar !

[Aster]

worst is a matter of perspective

[The Reality Denialist]

worst is a matter of perspective

OK going by personal criteria I suppose neurotic people would probably score low on average. Lack of relations should be good option too if that is preferred.
Again... Spinsters vs incels. I suppose those groups share something familiar and something unfamiliar but everyone can point the group that has the worst experience.

[one]

Imo only on paper that some Fi polrs have shitty relationships, specially ILEs. They get into the most awkward situations but nobody cares because specially towards strangers they are just seen as extroverted and fun to be around. It wouldn’t matter if they have hit on your friends and mother, acted or said something insensitive, or got into questionable situations with the most random people. Also who ultimately cares about those things? Only Fi leads who would just avoid them probably, because obviously, criticizing someone directly is bad behavior and stooping to someone’s level. People who aren’t Fi leads wouldn’t do it either, because it’s bad for their social rep. You would think others would just look for a way to use them, but ILEs run away from hassle and responsibility faster than everybody. People just gossip about them but that’s it. Well maybe they are actually hurt by gossips. Not sure about that.

[one]

You can see this in the polrs of other people too. It’s not even a big problem, even if you get “tortured” by multiple supervisors. In any situation it would be absurd to find everyone to be the supervisor anyway. Find a quadra mate, if not quadra mate then a neighbor, and/or you can just fall to your mobilizing. Maybe if you are actually in a hell of supervisors then just pander to them hard lol.

[on a peaceful hiatus]

Imo only on paper that some Fi polrs have shitty relationships, specially ILEs. They get into the most awkward situations but nobody cares because specially towards strangers they are just seen as extroverted and fun to be around. It wouldn’t matter if they have hit on your friends and mother, acted or said something insensitive, or got into questionable situations with the most random people. Also who ultimately cares about those things? Only Fi leads who would just avoid them probably, because obviously, criticizing someone directly is bad behavior and stooping to someone’s level. People who aren’t Fi leads wouldn’t do it either, because it’s bad for their social rep. You would think others would just look for a way to use them, but ILEs run away from hassle and responsibility faster than everybody. People just gossip about them but that’s it. Well maybe they are actually hurt by gossips. Not sure about that.

my ESI sister recently got married to an SLE, and her now husband has a daugher who is an SLE too and she has stopped the contact to her family. their relationships are a complete mess. he also has a son that might be SLE too and he has stopped the contact to him too. I took a walk with my sister a week ago and she was complaining how his daughter is the most ungrateful person. the SLE daughter gets money from her family and it's kinda implied that she is going to use that money to get an apartment with it and she tells them "now I'm gonna buy some clothes with this". my sister described his daughter as emotionally retarded. she never says thank you when people do something for her. I thought it was interesting that she vented about her to me. it seemed to me that she is really trying to be patient with her but you can only restrict your base function for so long before you explode. the SLE daughter funnily also has a sugar daddy who seems to be an older IEI that is giving her money. she is 23 I think and very attractive, so she is going to get her life handed to her for a couple more years probably. I also remember an EII friend who told me that the ILE with whom he shared an apartment went on a date with a girl who told him she was a virgin and he just burst out laughing and left. the same guy also invited three of his ex girlfriends to his birthday party. Fi PolR is like an amusing, bizarre relationship trainwreck. Fi role is more of a general disinterest in social interactions just for the sake of it.

[The Reality Denialist]

Imo only on paper that some Fi polrs have shitty relationships, specially ILEs.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aY985qzn7oI
From 31:20. ILE shits on an entire field.

[one]

my ESI sister recently got married to an SLE, and her now husband has a daugher who is an SLE too and she has stopped the contact to her family. their relationships are a complete mess. he also has a son that might be SLE too and he has stopped the contact to him too. I took a walk with my sister a week ago and she was complaining how his daughter is the most ungrateful person. the SLE daughter gets money from her family and it's kinda implied that she is going to use that money to get an apartment with it and she tells them "now I'm gonna buy some clothes with this". my sister described his daughter as emotionally retarded. she never says thank you when people do something for her. I thought it was interesting that she vented about her to me. it seemed to me that she is really trying to be patient with her but you can only restrict your base function for so long before you explode. the SLE daughter funnily also has a sugar daddy who seems to be an older IEI that is giving her money. she is 23 I think and very attractive, so she is going to get her life handed to her for a couple more years probably. I also remember an EII friend who told me that the ILE with whom he shared an apartment went on a date with a girl who told him she was a virgin and he just burst out laughing and left. the same guy also invited three of his ex girlfriends to his birthday party. Fi PolR is like an amusing, bizarre relationship trainwreck. Fi role is more of a general disinterest in social interactions just for the sake of it.

She might have said it to you because she couldn’t keep it anymore and you are part of the family. Most likely wouldn’t broadcast it or at least would think twice, and it’s funny because they wouldn’t do that not because of themselves but because of the other person- the same person who is offending them. Specially if it’s someone close to you, you wouldn’t like others to hate them too. It’s just a bond thing. So whatever shitty or bizarre relationship it is, it would be ignored for the most part.

Yeah Fi role to me tends to be distant, they don’t seem to be offensive at all and you can always reason out with them and don’t give random retorts like ILEs do. I know this sounds like a hate post for ILEs but it seems to me that deranged ILEs would really use their skills to give all the reasoning they could suck out of the conversation so that they would be right. Or they would just act in a way that I don’t understand. I’m also Se valuing so in my view most of the time Se leads at least just wants to get something from the other, and I can understand the value of that. It induces sentimental feelings even, because it feels like that’s how cold and sad real life is.

Overall though these people may have shitty relationships as how it is typically defined but I don’t think they’re completely losing in the social arena and other aspects of life. Other types might even be perceived as having shitty relationships more than them.

[one]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aY985qzn7oI
From 31:20. ILE shits on an entire field.

To me if one can still put a comical bg music it is still not bad socially. If he realizes he’s at a down low he can pivot and work on the comical aspect of it all. He jokes, people would laugh blah blah blah offense is now forgotten. There is just a big difference between what is really happening and what is being perceived superficially. real dynamics among others vs overall social rep

[The Reality Denialist]

real dynamics among others vs overall social rep

Well he is good terms with media. In fact media loves him. Colleagues not so much and he might bring down new promising careers.
Fi problems.

[on a peaceful hiatus]

@one: low Fi is really like one day you spend time with a person you like and you show a lot of external emotions and laugh and smile but a day or two later you suddenly feel this huge indifference as if the person doesn't mean shit to you but if they would send you a message asking for help you would be more than willing to answer. I won't send you a message asking you how you are doing but invite me to something exciting and I'm easily on board.

[godslave]

@one: low Fi is really like one day you spend time with a person you like and you show a lot of external emotions and laugh and smile but a day or two later you suddenly feel this huge indifference as if the person doesn't mean shit to you but if they would send you a message asking for help you would be more than willing to answer. I won't send you a message asking you how you are doing but invite me to something exciting and I'm easily on board.

I literally said multiple times to my family members "I don't call anyone but I never refuse to answer a call" and "It's not because I don't call anyone that I don't want anyone to call me !" and "I don't call anyone but it's just me, I'm "sick" ! You are not me and you are not sick so why don't you call me either ??!!".

Does it count for Fi PolR ?

[on a peaceful hiatus]

I literally said multiple times to my family members "I don't call anyone but I never refuse to answer a call" and "It's not because I don't call anyone that I don't want anyone to call me !" and "I don't call anyone but it's just me, I'm "sick" ! You are not me and you are not sick so why don't you call me either ??!!".

Does it count for Fi PolR ?

I think sometimes 2 functions can look alike for different reasons. you might just have social anxiety or little interest in reality because you said you are a shut-in. I refuse to answer quite frequently due to lack of interest or I forget it but it's usually emotional excitement that gets me moving. If I don't answer your messages frequently, there's a high chance I am not that interested in a contact, but that's probably a universal human trait.

[FDG]

Thinking types in general have worse relationships with other people because they invest less time in them, of course they can have a good relationship with let's say their spouse, but in general it's less their focus. Also as a rule thinking types are less likely to either reconcile after a quarrel or give in during an argument (if they think they're right). This makes for worse relationships on average.

OTOH they are generally more level-headed, I mean, unless they are neurotic / crazy.

[one]

Fi valuers would love to make their relations great but even the Fi leads are not immune to shitty relationships. The issue is once they’re in they’re in, and it’s difficult to hurt people you care about. You can size up people and some of the types would make sure to make the closing of the distance slow to really decide but overall specially for introverted Fi valuers devotion and loyalty is what kills them in the end. It’s kinda bad to the point of staying in a sinking ship and accepting fate even if they can see a way out. I think Fi creatives have an advantage here though, specially with that Se + Fi going on for SEEs they can pull several people in to the point of loyalty but they can turn it off anytime. It would be harder for introverted types. The Fi creative description I read sounds bad but I think this is the positive side of it. Specially for SEEs the passion and devotion is real but if you cross a boundary you wouldn’t leave without them gaining something at least, and they would be very casual about it. Because after all, relationships and everything else are just *there* and just happen. No internalizing. It may be covert for intended comical effect, or might act on it in a way that is direct and confrontational but still socially graceful or just generally endearing to others, making them pull even more people. The best thing about them is they are not afraid to look and act dumb, but they get what they want. They can be labelled “users” but in reality everyone is, they’re just the OG users and can actually play the social game.

[one]

There can be at least 3 factors - one is knowing people’s intentions and personality, two is pulling and keeping someone in, three is throwing the same person out of the circle or demoting them (regulating the distance in general). You have to be good at those 3 to have good relationships. But it doesn’t guarantee that you would be seen as having good relationships. That depends on how graceful you kick the bad ones out. Maybe that can be a 4th factor overall.

There are some types that are good at one or two while bad at the other. I would say graceful kicking is something an Fe ego can do really well if they want to though. Fe polr is bad at kicking, imo it’s too obvious and even the good ones get kicked.

[Weenusflytrap]

Relationships ending suddenly always happens to me so I will guess ILI, though my ILE friend is always complaining as well. His problem seems to be more with romantic relationships than friendships while mine is the opposite. So both these types depending on what type of relationship you’re talking about.

[Exodus]

SLE and LIE, although I don't find the examples given to be anywhere near exhaustive or even characteristic. Generally relationships are made worse by irreconcilable conflict and lack of trust. The way I see it Se valuers tend to have less stable relationships due to being more conflict-prone and not valuing stability itself.