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Thread: Conflictor as the embodiment of what one hates

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    Thumbs up Conflictor as the embodiment of what one hates

    Hi,

    Since almost a year back I've (IEI) been sharing an apartment with my mirror (EIE), supervisee (ESE) and conflictor (LSE). A lot of one-sided conflicts, but we seem to be able to solve them resolutely. Conflicts are usually Ni-PoLR things like me moving the couch literally 1.5 meters during the night, for them to be shocked and appalled when they notice the change in the morning. ._.

    Anyhow, I've come to view my conflictor as the embodiment of all that I hate. I know this is in line with descrptions of conflict relations, but I find every move, every action, every word, every pause, every intent, etc., to be the embodiment of pretty much all that I truly despise. Like eating the wrong kind of chips while watching a boring and corny Si-ego TV show on a generic gray sofa in abhorrent bright blue hospital corridor lighting. It's strange, because I really SLI's taste, lifestyle, etc., but LSE's... ??? We truly live in different worlds. This not to devalue LSE's in any way, I admire their Te, and see why people love them, but personally, I've come to realize this LSE's is pretty much the embodiment of all that I hate; The epitome of personally hateable; My unconscious hate, embodied!? What do you think? Am I too extreme?
    Last edited by salehieh; 11-26-2022 at 08:38 PM.

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    hmmm... well hatred would certainly be cause of conflict hehe
    i dunno if i really hate SLEs as an EII, but then again i've never lived with one! i would probably get tired of them really quickly though i would say and i would probably feel constantly threatened safety wise lol.
    LSEs can be annoying until it turns out that you really need someone's help, they absolutely will help you out a lot of the time as they're usually pretty impersonal with that kind of thing
    goodness tho, living with extraverts 24/7, it must be a pretty busy place X_X

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    Quote Originally Posted by salehieh View Post
    Hi,

    Since almost a year back I've (IEI) been sharing an apartment with my mirror (EIE), supervisee (ESE) and conflictor (LSE). A lot of one-sided conflicts, but we seem to be able to solve them resolutely. Conflicts are usually Ni-PoLR things like me moving the couch literally 1.5 meters during the night, for them to be shocked and appalled when they notice the change in the morning. ._.
    How does moving a couch relate to ni polr?

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    i assume the conflictor is what hates me, other way round

    cause lately, hating's startin to cost too much energy

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    I don’t hate LIEs, I pray for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by salehieh View Post
    Hi,

    Since almost a year back I've (IEI) been sharing an apartment with my mirror (EIE), supervisee (ESE) and conflictor (LSE). A lot of one-sided conflicts, but we seem to be able to solve them resolutely. Conflicts are usually Ni-PoLR things like me moving the couch literally 1.5 meters during the night, for them to be shocked and appalled when they notice the change in the morning. ._.

    Anyhow, I've come to view my conflictor as the emobidment of all that I hate. I know this is in line with descrptions conflictor relations, but I find every move, every action, every word, every pause, every intent, etc., to be the emobidment of pretty much all that I truly despise. Like eating the wrong kind of chips while watching a boring and corny Si-ego TV show on a generic gray sofa in abhorrent bright blue hospital corridor lighting. It's strange, because I really SLI's taste, lifestyle, etc., but LSE's... ??? We truly live in different worlds. This not to devalue LSE's in any way, I admire their Te, and see why people love them, but personally, I've come to realize this LSE's is pretty much the embodiment of all that I hate; The epitome of personally hateable; My unconscious hate, embodied!? What do you think? Am I too extreme?
    Ok maybe this is my more developed than normal talking thanks to my lucking out with my SEE brother but moving something 1.5 friggin' meters while they slept isn't something most people will fail to notice!

    You were begging for drama and conflict there dude whether you wanted it or not. Ya can't just spit in my face and call it rain (which is what ya essentially did if I'm reading this right). This, ironically, ties directly into what you're getting at.

    I am best buddies with an LII cousin who is wedded to his dual/my conflictor (an ESE). Do we hate each other? No. Do we tend to grate on each other's nerves? Kinda. We don't tend to get into the big issues like philosophy and politics like I do with said LII and while we disagree on certain things the fact we're all Christian kinda smooths things out quite a bit. Aquinas shared his type and I respect that saint with all he's due from any Catholic (i.e. Quite a lot).

    The ESE has flaws, oh so many flaws I could go on for days about, but my best buddy loves her heart and soul and y'know what? I can see it. I can see why he does. Totally separate from socionics BTW. This whole 3 ring circus is "popcorn theory" from my perspective. Like the works of David Icke. Reptilian overlords are a fun possibility, but I'd never give it the kind of weight I give the laws of physics and the fact that 2+2=4. Fun and potentially compelling kernel for a series of novels and all, but not a thing you'd wager your real-life fortunes on if you're at least somewhat sane.

    Not to say that supernatural things aren't real and don't exist. I am a Catholic after all and that means I necessarily believe in Demons and you can and will find evidence of them if you are honest about that pursuit. You'd do well to stick to your lane as it were on that front however. To attempt to exorcize/seal/bind/etc. a demon without the proper authority will end very, very, very badly for you.

    Though I will say that Socioncs rates higher than David Icke. It actually works in daily life more often than not in my experience. Once I guess a person's type and follow the theory I tend to land more positive interactions than not. For instance, once I figured my own mum for an LSE things actually got a lot easier for the both of us .

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    I hurt myself today
    To see if I still feel
    I focus on the pain
    The only thing that's real
    The needle tears a hole
    The old familiar sting
    Try to kill it all away
    But I remember everything
    What have I become?
    My sweetest friend
    Everyone I know goes away
    In the end
    And you could have it all
    My empire of dirt
    I will let you down
    I will make you hurt
    I wear this crown of thorns
    Upon my liar's chair
    Full of broken thoughts
    I cannot repair
    Beneath the stains of time
    The feelings disappear
    You are someone else
    I'm still right here
    What have I become?
    My sweetest friend
    Everyone I know goes away
    In the end
    And you could have it all
    My empire of dirt
    I will let you down
    I will make you hurt
    If I could start again
    A million miles away
    I would keep myself
    I would find a way



    The mind is restless and difficult to restrain, but it is subdued by practice

    -Krishna

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    like me moving the couch literally 1.5 meters
    Like eating the wrong kind of chips
    generic gray sofa
    abhorrent bright blue hospital corridor lighting
    Are you sure you’re not SEI? Because I, too, rearrange furniture, have strong opinions on snacks, and detest generic gray sofas and harsh lighting.

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    liking SLI's ''taste and lifestyle'' but disliking LSE's is not usual for IEI - the intertype relations and their problems are perceived similarly, although LSE is significantly more alluring and exotic for IEI. but for SEI or ILE, SLI is more sympathetic than LSE. by your obvious emotionality we can exclude logic, though.

    Conflicts are usually Ni-PoLR things like me moving the couch literally 1.5 meters during the night
    sounds more like Se-ego control than Ni-PoLR, especially an extravert

    ike eating the wrong kind of chips while watching a boring and corny Si-ego TV show on a generic gray sofa in abhorrent bright blue hospital corridor lighting.
    here's an accent on sensory ''wrongs'' - not the first criticisms an IEI would put against an LSE, as they primarily see the shortcomings through their strong valued functions. this sounds more like how an ethical (Fe-type) sensor would protest - closer to a Si type, with ''abhorrent'' lighting and all.

    also, Si has no relation to ''corniness'' - shows with a significant amount of Si-influence are rather slice-of-lifey, attractive and fairly limited in violent or significantly disturbing sights, sounds etc. Cute anime like some Ghibli films, for example.

    try to think about your intertype relations - it's a distinct possibility that you are rather another type, such as SEI.

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    Hmm if there is an annoying LSE I usually just stay away from them. It’s more indifference. An annoying LIE can be harder to escape. An annoying ESE can be more maddening. An annoying /quasi-identical mirror makes me feel unstable if I’m around them too long.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poptart View Post
    Are you sure you’re not SEI? Because I, too, rearrange furniture, have strong opinions on snacks, and detest generic gray sofas and harsh lighting.


    hmmm.. That's interesting. Those are the things I just can't stand enduring longer than formalities demand. However, I'm pretty sure I'm IEI... I apparently supervise the ESE, hit the LSE's PoLR, I find him hitting mine, I feel supervised by an LIE, etc... But nonetheless, an interesting point, because I wonder wherefrom my sensitivity to stimuli originates.

    I'm thinking maybe my Ni got overdeveloped due to ear infections as a kid (causing me to developmentally naturally fall behind in Se (which is apparently the cause for my weird IQ test results as a kid, and now: high visuospatial IQ, low verbal IQ) (My hypothetical take: Visuospatial: Ni/Ne, Verbal: taking in information through Se) (I've consistently read VERY slowly and badly. The vocab is good but I can't read fast or correctly if pressured). This developmental ear thing maybe lead to having "less energy" to spend on processing sensory stimuli (bright lights, etc.), thus more energy for Ni? What do you think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nifl View Post
    sounds more like Se-ego control than Ni-PoLR, especially an extravert
    I guess it could. Maybe you're right, that this isn't an Ni-PoLR thing. However, I'd bet $1m on the supposition that they're LSE and ESE. To be more precise, we have a pretty big living room, and I switched the position of a small two-seat sofa and two armchairs. When the ESE (also Ni-PoLR) explained why he wanted to make it a rule to "ask before moving anything during the night", he referred to his Si experience upon noticing the change: startled and shocked, like in a bad way. Because it was so unexpected, and it apparently was a bad experience waking up and seeing such an unexpected change.

    I view it as a heavy reliance on Si, that things must be precisely the way they've always been, unless a formal discussion is had beforehand, a principle apparently HIGHLY valued by the LSE and ESE. This kind of reliance naturally is about Si>Ni, and in this case in the strictest way I've experienced, which would imply the hypothetically HIGHEST Si coupled with the LOWEST Ni => pointing toward Ni-PoLR. Also:


    Filatova:

    Ni – LSE painfully experiences any type of uncertainty. It is desirable that everything be planned before-hand, to precisely know what will happen tomorrow, in the week, in the month, in the year. Uncertainty, for her, is the most severe vital problem, it makes her nervous and she attempts to surmount it with all her resources.




    Quote Originally Posted by nifl View Post
    also, Si has no relation to ''corniness'' - shows with a significant amount of Si-influence are rather slice-of-lifey, attractive and fairly limited in violent or significantly disturbing sights, sounds etc. Cute anime like some Ghibli films, for example.
    You're right. I didn't mean to take a jab at Si. "Corny" was poor word choice. I meant more precisely something akin to: traditional, non-inventive, slow-paced, Ni-non-valuing, IME boring, vanilla jokes (obv. my view). I feel physically soothed by such TV shows, but I feel my soul crushing, as there isn't any Ni to latch onto.


    Quote Originally Posted by nifl View Post
    here's an accent on sensory ''wrongs'' - not the first criticisms an IEI would put against an LSE, as they primarily see the shortcomings through their strong valued functions. this sounds more like how an ethical (Fe-type) sensor would protest - closer to a Si type, with ''abhorrent'' lighting and all.

    try to think about your intertype relations - it's a distinct possibility that you are rather another type, such as SEI.
    Intersting. My reply to a similar question:

    ____

    hmmm.. That's interesting. Those are the things I just can't stand enduring longer than formalities demand. However, I'm pretty sure I'm IEI... I apparently supervise the ESE, hit the LSE's PoLR, I find him hitting mine, I feel supervised by an LIE, etc... But nonetheless, an interesting point, because I wonder wherefrom my sensitivity to stimuli originates.

    I'm thinking maybe my Ni got overdeveloped due to ear infections as a kid (causing me to developmentally naturally fall behind in Se (which is apparently the cause for my weird IQ test results as a kid, and now: high visuospatial IQ, low verbal IQ) (My hypothetical take: Visuospatial: Ni/Ne, Verbal: taking in information through Se) (I've consistently read VERY slowly and badly. The vocab is good but I can't read fast or correctly if pressured). This developmental ear thing maybe lead to having "less energy" to spend on processing sensory stimuli (bright lights, etc.), thus more energy for Ni? What do you think?

    ____

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    Quote Originally Posted by chriscorey View Post
    I hurt myself today
    To see if I still feel
    I focus on the pain
    The only thing that's real
    The needle tears a hole
    [...]



    U mean I focus on the negatives and so? I guess this post would come across as such. Meh, I don't, but I dislike living with this particular LSE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poptart View Post
    How does moving a couch relate to ni polr?

    As I replied to nifl, who asked the same thing:

    Maybe you're right, that this isn't an Ni-PoLR thing. However, I'd bet $1m on the supposition that they're LSE and ESE. To be more precise, we have a pretty big living room, and I switched the position of a small two-seat sofa and two armchairs. When the ESE (also Ni-PoLR) explained why he wanted to make it a rule to "ask before moving anything during the night", he referred to his Si experience upon noticing the change: startled and shocked, like in a bad way. Because it was so unexpected, and it apparently was a bad experience waking up and seeing such an unexpected change.

    I view it as a heavy reliance on Si, that things must be precisely the way they've always been, unless a formal discussion is had beforehand, a principle apparently HIGHLY valued by the LSE and ESE. This kind of reliance naturally is about Si>Ni, and in this case in the strictest way I've experienced, which would imply the hypothetically HIGHEST Si coupled with the LOWEST Ni => pointing toward Ni-PoLR. Also:


    Filatova:

    Ni – LSE painfully experiences any type of uncertainty. It is desirable that everything be planned before-hand, to precisely know what will happen tomorrow, in the week, in the month, in the year. Uncertainty, for her, is the most severe vital problem, it makes her nervous and she attempts to surmount it with all her resources.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pasleine View Post
    hmmm... well hatred would certainly be cause of conflict hehe
    i dunno if i really hate SLEs as an EII, but then again i've never lived with one! i would probably get tired of them really quickly though i would say and i would probably feel constantly threatened safety wise lol.
    LSEs can be annoying until it turns out that you really need someone's help, they absolutely will help you out a lot of the time as they're usually pretty impersonal with that kind of thing
    goodness tho, living with extraverts 24/7, it must be a pretty busy place X_X


    Of course, hate is a strong word. I don't hate him, as a person. He just, surprisingly accurately, happens to be the embodiment of a large number of things at the very bottom of my liking; the most extreme variant I've come across, whence hate, the most extreme descriptor. As said, I get why people love LSE's. People say so, and I believe them, because I love SLE's (my dual), who I know are, tendentially, very much disliked by EII's, among others, etc.

    And yes... Living with extroverts... Interesting... Having grown up with only my EII mom, I've never lived with sensors. Or extraverted sensors. Or rules. Yeah.... You can guess the conflicts: Me: "Oh, I thought you found it ok for me to x, because this seems Ni-congruent and I'm Te PoLR" "noooooooo... What??? This isn't in accordance with rule 382 in the Si-sensor's common sense guide..." Yeah... Thanx Ni & Te PoLR.
    Last edited by salehieh; 11-26-2022 at 11:11 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    Hmm if there is an annoying LSE I usually just stay away from them. It’s more indifference. An annoying LIE can be harder to escape. An annoying ESE can be more maddening. An annoying /quasi-identical mirror makes me feel unstable if I’m around them too long.
    But feeling unstable can be a bit addictive can’t it?? Like you know how things that are bad for you can feel good? Your conflict partner can also have a bit of a push/pull addictive feel but in general I tend to get over my annoyance with them quickly

    with mirrors/ quasi it can fester..or they can be filling your head with crap and you don’t even realise. Of course mirrors and quasi can be good too..but I think sometimes they are more subtly bad compared to other types

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    @salehieh
    I view it as a heavy reliance on Si, that things must be precisely the way they've always been, unless a formal discussion is had beforehand
    it's related to Ti (traditions, formal rules) and rationality. the relation of Si to 'tradition' is a strange MBTI misconception - Si is about subjective sensory experience and evaluation (pleasant, unpleasant, aesthetic, ugly, healthy etc.). the painful uncertainty of Ni in XSE is more along the lines of planning to compensate for limited imagination and feeling of what will happen on a less immediate basis. displeasure at something being moved during the night should not have anything to do with bad Ni, specifically. extraversion, sensing and rationality can predispose to a relatively high need for material order, but Se valuers have greater interest in direct material control, and may on that basis find it annoying that things are moved without their consent, especially the rationals.

    I meant more precisely something akin to: traditional, non-inventive, slow-paced, Ni-non-valuing, IME boring, vanilla jokes (obv. my view).
    traditions, how things 'ought to be' because of time-honoured practices - mainly related to Ti/Fe valuing, rationality and non-valued Ne; Beta quadra is generally imagined as being both emblematic of the most staunch traditionalism and the most radical change.
    to be non-inventive is related to low intuition in general, but shows with lots of Si-influence can just as well (and likely more often) be created by Ne types, who find Si things more important and interesting than Ni/Se types; creative, strange, new and unique aspects of comfortable and pleasant every-day situations. perhaps shows created and maintained by introverts are more slow-paced, but it has no inherent relation to Si beyond it being an introverted function - shows with lots of dreamy and nebulous Ni philosophizing are certainly slow-paced as well .

    you can try to make a typing video if you're interested in opinions from the forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nifl View Post
    @salehieh

    it's related to Ti (traditions, formal rules) and rationality. the relation of Si to 'tradition' is a strange MBTI misconception - Si is about subjective sensory experience and evaluation (pleasant, unpleasant, aesthetic, ugly, healthy etc.). the painful uncertainty of Ni in XSE is more along the lines of planning to compensate for limited imagination and feeling of what will happen on a less immediate basis. displeasure at something being moved during the night should not have anything to do with bad Ni, specifically. extraversion, sensing and rationality can predispose to a relatively high need for material order, but Se valuers have greater interest in direct material control, and may on that basis find it annoying that things are moved without their consent, especially the rationals.

    Traditions, how things 'ought to be' because of time-honoured practices - mainly related to Ti/Fe valuing, rationality and non-valued Ne; Beta quadra is generally imagined as being both emblematic of the most staunch traditionalism and the most radical change.
    That's interesting. I'm thinking of Jordan Peterson and the remarkable prevalence of LSI's in the right-wing youth parties where I live. But, when I wrote:

    "I view it as a heavy reliance on Si, that things must be precisely the way they've always been, unless a formal discussion is had beforehand",

    I didn't refer to tradition in any broader sense, I only meant that the Si experience of the result of my actions wasn't in congruence with their Si the evening before, which made them freak because it was outta control (incongruent experiences of things taken to be non-transitive (whereby perhaps their Ni-PoLR was hit, creating a double effect, as Ni's nature is transitive).


    Quote Originally Posted by nifl View Post
    to be non-inventive is related to low intuition in general, but shows with lots of Si-influence can just as well (and likely more often) be created by Ne types, who find Si things more important and interesting than Ni/Se types; creative, strange, new and unique aspects of comfortable and pleasant every-day situations. perhaps shows created and maintained by introverts are more slow-paced, but it has no inherent relation to Si beyond it being an introverted function - shows with lots of dreamy and nebulous Ni philosophizing are certainly slow-paced as well .
    you can try to make a typing video if you're interested in opinions from the forum.
    Sure, shows with lots of Si-influence can just as well be created by Ne types. We can agree on this . Yeah, I guess you're right, slow-pacedness isn't necessarily Si.



    I'm 99.999999% I'm IEI. That says a lot coming from an IEI. Which might make you think I'm not an IEI.

    Thank you for your reply!
    Last edited by salehieh; 11-26-2022 at 03:21 PM.

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    Micro-managing other people's lives to an excessive degree, getting ur nose in other people's business "I have a busy day of getting bent out of shape over things that are none of my business in the first place!" - hallmark of Unhealthy Karen LSE. Having a narc image that ur a better person than u really are underneathe (although this is hypocritical cuz IEIs do this a lot too but it's okay when we do it cuz we're not all up Te's ass!), acting smug and pretentious. Thinking/saying 'I have stage fright' is on the same level as wanting to hear about other people's molestation. Saying 'tell me how u feel it's okay!' when u have every intention of sabotaging their feelings for ur own gleeful sadistic gain, justifying all the hurt u do under the umbrella of shitty but valued 1D Fi. At least Betas are cute and honest when we're being demons. EIE Michelle Hurd on the original Charmed show that DID NOT SUCK (as bad): "I lied" /campy shrug - it was all in good delivery.

    Lazily not solving any humanitarian problem yourself, just looking at some dumb Umbridge textbook or rulebook on how to behave that IEEs lazily vomited, and then acting like the outside world should reward u for it. (this is also how my near-identical in Attitudinal Psyche behaves, which I also want to sadistically kill at times)

    Yeah maybe u shouldn't feel hate or rage or annoyance but u do. IEIs try to be fair to everypony, but its not realistic- and no u DON'T value it, so pretending u do doesn't seem very wise. Being two faced works for them more than it works for u, so ur probably better off just being direct and saying u don't like something without sugar coating. This is probably why/how ppl say iEIs are manipulative. U can't always control other people's attitudes to ur viritol anyway. I get that because ur an ethical type, u naturally feel the reverberation back to yourself if you hate something as if you were also the recipent of it, but that's not really true and logical types/ur conflictor aren't operating from that sort of vantage point.

    You are probably being extreme (to them) but why care or why try to make peace when they are just gonna hate u back anyway? Drag queens are extreme, but we also don't give a fuck. I say 'we' but I'm not a drag queen, I just admire them- maybe more drag queen at heart.

    Yeah I don't value those things - to be fair, this LSE I bitched about was just extra unhealthy naturally, most LSEs- I could see the conflict, but it was a lot more subtle than this. LSE-Si was better than the LSE-Te, but I also had matured as a person.

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    I wouldn't say hate. More like "conflictor" is the last person you'd want to get stuck in an elevator with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WVW View Post
    I wouldn't say hate. More like "conflictor" is the last person you'd want to get stuck in an elevator with.
    I'd actually modify that with what I've said elsewhere about things like attachment.

    See, you're essentially correct in that if you had a choice between your conflictor and anybody else in regards to things like problem solving or romance you'd probably rather have anybody else.

    That doesn't mean that the two of you can't solve a given problem quickly, effectively, and efficiently or that you cannot have a fruitful and ultimately mutually fulfilling romantic relationship. It just means that things will be vastly more difficult if compared to say, solving problems with a "business" or "Activity" relationship or having a happy marriage with a dual or a benefactor.

    The difficulty may be worth it depending on your perspective, however. Mortification is a virtue and virtue can be its own reward if it is practiced regularly. Even non-Christians understood this (e.g. the disciples of Plato and Aristotle). Enduring the flaws and frustrations of your conflictor may help you to grow in virtue. Perhaps that's why providence has stuck you with each other. Instead of hating your conflictor view them as a gift from God instead.

    He sends you suffering if he knows you will merit a greater place in heaven if you endure it well. The saints saw their sufferings as signs of divine favor and rejoiced in them even as they suffered. I could go on about this concept and its implications but that'd derail this thread so I'll stop there.

  22. #22
    Lo'taur ! godslave's Avatar
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    If you are a religious person and you think that Socionics is valid and you also think that God, Jesus, and all the prophets have a type like you do then God and all the prophets or any religious figure is potentially your conflictor. If you are a Muslim and Prophet Muhammad 's TIM is your conflictor then it means that your religion demands that you love your conflictor more than your Parents, siblings, wife (husband/significant other) and children in order to be considered as a true believer and saved from eternal hell's fire and same thing If you are a Christian and Jesus is your conflictor and same thing with any other religious figure you believe in or of whom you are an adept (Such thing pertains more to fanaticism than "natural" human behavior imho).

    If your type is inborn which is an idea that can be correlated to that of destiny (a spiritual word) then your affinity with a particular religion i.e it's a priori rejection or attraction can be influenced by your type (more or less). If you are a believer in both Religion and Socionics the question of predetermination can be asked. Are we predetermined to "hate" our God(s) or Spiritual figures ? Do we have a particular attraction or rejection to spirituality because of our Type ? Socionics answers yes. What is the role of the Socion in all that ? If you lived in a medieval religious state and you're an NT then coping with those states of facts can be difficult and I would say than any natural divergent thinker would have some trouble with that. The truth is that many NTs great works under such conditions have been done under the dome of secrecy and clandestinity. Btw many secret societies of the early renaissance were created just for the purpose of exchange of ideas and "forbidden knowledge" like medicine, alchemy, astrology, etc in other word sciences (and philosophical trends).

    With that said, I think it's dangerous to use the word "hate" in such a discriminatory and categorical way. Your conflictor is someone who actually values your Role function. It means that if anything, your conflictor is in theory the personification (or embodiment) of societal pressure imho. What society demands from you, what religion (clergy) demands from you and even what God demands from you (if it's your conflictor) is perceived as a pressure since you are not naturally well equipped for the task and it gets in the way of your valued functions. Anyway, I find it to be the expression of human nature to seize any opportunity to find a reason to hate fellow human beings.
    Last edited by godslave; 01-10-2023 at 10:44 AM.

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    May look like an LSI, but -Te. Metaphor's Avatar
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    That's not how Conflictor in ITR works.
    Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel: "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."

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    May look like an LSI, but -Te. Metaphor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    The difficulty may be worth it depending on your perspective, however. Mortification is a virtue and virtue can be its own reward if it is practiced regularly. Even non-Christians understood this (e.g. the disciples of Plato and Aristotle). Enduring the flaws and frustrations of your conflictor may help you to grow in virtue. Perhaps that's why providence has stuck you with each other. Instead of hating your conflictor view them as a gift from God instead.

    He sends you suffering if he knows you will merit a greater place in heaven if you endure it well. The saints saw their sufferings as signs of divine favor and rejoiced in them even as they suffered. I could go on about this concept and its implications but that'd derail this thread so I'll stop there.
    No offence here but I wouldn't agree completely to this holistic definition of the way Conflictor on ITR works. It is important to notice that the conflict here happens due to difference in their perception about the others, and not really limited to an extent of having flaws and frustrations about the others. However, in terms of similarities, it is rather to be a more turbulent version of Supervision ITR. On the Conflictor ITR of ILI-ESE, for instance, ESE's Fe-base is drawn to entertain the Fe PoLR despite ILI doesn't prefer to react in such situation, given an impression of someone who lacks sensitivity in approaching the others. While then, Ni-base seems to resist against the lack of timeliness in ESE, so they also seek to "supervise" each other's PoLR, but somewhat with the lack of intensity due to their tendency to avoid each other after they have discovered something more about each of their personality. Te-role doesn't prefer to be supervised, and the same could be said for Si role, so it leaves Suggestive - Demonstrative as the space left for any further development for each other. Therefore, "gift from the God" seems to describe Supervision more.
    Last edited by Metaphor; 01-11-2023 at 03:30 AM. Reason: OCD
    Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel: "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    Ok maybe this is my more developed than normal talking thanks to my lucking out with my SEE brother but moving something 1.5 friggin' meters while they slept isn't something most people will fail to notice!

    You were begging for drama and conflict there dude whether you wanted it or not. Ya can't just spit in my face and call it rain (which is what ya essentially did if I'm reading this right). This, ironically, ties directly into what you're getting at.

    I am best buddies with an LII cousin who is wedded to his dual/my conflictor (an ESE). Do we hate each other? No. Do we tend to grate on each other's nerves? Kinda. We don't tend to get into the big issues like philosophy and politics like I do with said LII and while we disagree on certain things the fact we're all Christian kinda smooths things out quite a bit. Aquinas shared his type and I respect that saint with all he's due from any Catholic (i.e. Quite a lot).

    The ESE has flaws, oh so many flaws I could go on for days about, but my best buddy loves her heart and soul and y'know what? I can see it. I can see why he does. Totally separate from socionics BTW. This whole 3 ring circus is "popcorn theory" from my perspective. Like the works of David Icke. Reptilian overlords are a fun possibility, but I'd never give it the kind of weight I give the laws of physics and the fact that 2+2=4. Fun and potentially compelling kernel for a series of novels and all, but not a thing you'd wager your real-life fortunes on if you're at least somewhat sane.

    Not to say that supernatural things aren't real and don't exist. I am a Catholic after all and that means I necessarily believe in Demons and you can and will find evidence of them if you are honest about that pursuit. You'd do well to stick to your lane as it were on that front however. To attempt to exorcize/seal/bind/etc. a demon without the proper authority will end very, very, very badly for you.

    Though I will say that Socioncs rates higher than David Icke. It actually works in daily life more often than not in my experience. Once I guess a person's type and follow the theory I tend to land more positive interactions than not. For instance, once I figured my own mum for an LSE things actually got a lot easier for the both of us .
    I figured OP was exaggerating about the moving furniture part. Like sure, sometimes you bump into things and they slide or move. Shouldn't be a reason to get mad at someone right?

    Unless you're doing it on purpose which is passive aggressive and I reaalllly don't understand why someone would get back at someone like that. I'd just be the most evil bitch in the world and put nair in their shampoo or something jk

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    I find myself like/dislike based on subtype or enn instincts stack way more than the type itself. For example, I don’t get along so well with ND sub or So first.

    But still, I can’t be near an ESE for so long that make me feel stressful either I like them or not. Keep the right distance is the way to go.

  27. #27
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    I don't think u will hate every conflictor, just like u obviously won't love every dual. It is more about information metabolism/ease of understanding. How easy you can understand one another without getting misunderstood/lost/confused. Sometimes that turns into hate, sometimes it doesn't. In a campy pure way- you love all your duals and you hate all conflictors while making heart-shaped imprints with your anus and doing Tex Avery wildtakes in Martisa drag, but the real world... is obviously, more subtle than that. Painfully so!

  28. #28
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazaam View Post
    Micro-managing other people's lives to an excessive degree, getting ur nose in other people's business "I have a busy day of getting bent out of shape over things that are none of my business in the first place!" - hallmark of Unhealthy Karen LSE. Having a narc image that ur a better person than u really are underneathe (although this is hypocritical cuz IEIs do this a lot too but it's okay when we do it cuz we're not all up Te's ass!), acting smug and pretentious. Thinking/saying 'I have stage fright' is on the same level as wanting to hear about other people's molestation. Saying 'tell me how u feel it's okay!' when u have every intention of sabotaging their feelings for ur own gleeful sadistic gain, justifying all the hurt u do under the umbrella of shitty but valued 1D Fi. At least Betas are cute and honest when we're being demons. EIE Michelle Hurd on the original Charmed show that DID NOT SUCK (as bad): "I lied" /campy shrug - it was all in good delivery.

    Lazily not solving any humanitarian problem yourself, just looking at some dumb Umbridge textbook or rulebook on how to behave that IEEs lazily vomited, and then acting like the outside world should reward u for it. (this is also how my near-identical in Attitudinal Psyche behaves, which I also want to sadistically kill at times)

    Yeah maybe u shouldn't feel hate or rage or annoyance but u do. IEIs try to be fair to everypony, but its not realistic- and no u DON'T value it, so pretending u do doesn't seem very wise. Being two faced works for them more than it works for u, so ur probably better off just being direct and saying u don't like something without sugar coating. This is probably why/how ppl say iEIs are manipulative. U can't always control other people's attitudes to ur viritol anyway. I get that because ur an ethical type, u naturally feel the reverberation back to yourself if you hate something as if you were also the recipent of it, but that's not really true and logical types/ur conflictor aren't operating from that sort of vantage point.

    You are probably being extreme (to them) but why care or why try to make peace when they are just gonna hate u back anyway? Drag queens are extreme, but we also don't give a fuck. I say 'we' but I'm not a drag queen, I just admire them- maybe more drag queen at heart.

    Yeah I don't value those things - to be fair, this LSE I bitched about was just extra unhealthy naturally, most LSEs- I could see the conflict, but it was a lot more subtle than this. LSE-Si was better than the LSE-Te, but I also had matured as a person.
    Even I have conflicts with a NARCISSIST LSE
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Spill the T, girl!

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