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Thread: Member Questionnaire (Clarke)

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    Some additional information about Model A-related perceptions:
    -I perceive myself as having an unknown amount of skill in Si. I assume that I can do it, but I usually have difficulties when I try.
    -I perceive myself as definitely having trouble doing Se.

    Some additional information about my attitudes towards classic EII interests:
    -I actually don't like schedules. I like to be generally aware of what others will do, but I tend to understand that plans can change (including my own). I don't like to be trapped into a daily schedule, especially one that spans the entire day.
    -I don't have the optimistic quality of some potential EII's. I tend to be more internally harsh or intolerant of mistakes, and I don't really like positivism or a bubbly attitude in general.
    -I have historically liked it when people have brought me food. Based on some discussion in the Delta Lounge, this implies that I might be compatible with a LSE.

    Some additional information about my dichotomies:
    -While I've seen myself slowly seem to mobilize for a project, I think that it would be hard on me to do many projects in a short amount of time or one project in a short amount of time. It seems to help me to have a relaxation period before I start to do the project. This implies that I'm probably judicious.

    The confusion about judicious/decisive was that I interpreted myself as making very fast decisions when it came to minor lifestyle choices, and not consciously thinking about choices when I made more important decisions. I'm actually fairly indecisive when it comes to large decisions, mainly because I tend to stick to decisions that I tell other people. This seems to be related to my need for stability.
    Last edited by Clarke; 11-12-2022 at 09:33 PM.

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    I like to keep things simple and I like tips and tricks :

    The creative function wants to control the aspects of the given IE (it's my job). For instance Fe creative wants to control the emotional aspects to harmonize them i.e. to maintain good mood in people. IEI can make aggressive people more peaceful by controlling their mood. They often use humour and jokes to calm them down.

    Te wants to control the finances and practicality of things. Fi wants to control the relationships by imposing their values. etc..

    The tricky thing about the role function : There in an ITR called Mirage. Basically a person takes the mirage for the Dual. With that said here are two examples of what I mean :

    Fi lead will hide his/her feelings and true preferences and act like a logical person (Ti). A Ti lead will hide his/her logic and true opinions and act like an Ethical person.

    Finally, keep in mind that a Type has two modus operandi : One mode directed at the socion (externalities in Model G ) and One mode directed at close psychological distance (Internalities) i.e. with the people you know well like family and friends. Now, here is the key trick :

    If you are an Extrovert (Lead function is directed outside) then you'll behave and appear like an Introvert at close psychological distance (Internalities)
    If you are an Introvert (Lead function is directed inside (within)) then you'll behave and appear like an Extrovert at close psychological distance (Internalities) .

    Probs to Maria (IEI) from Ben Vaserlan channel from whom I got most of those insights. I hope that helped.
    Last edited by godslave; 11-13-2022 at 03:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by godslave View Post
    I like to keep things simple and I like tips and tricks :

    The creative function wants to control the aspects of the given IE (it's my job). For instance Fe creative wants to control the emotional aspects to harmonize them i.e. to maintain good mood in people. IEI can make aggressive people more peaceful by controlling their mood. They often use humour and jokes to calm them down.

    Te wants to control the finances and practicality of things. Fi wants to control the relationships by imposing their values. etc..

    The tricky thing about the role function : There in an ITR called Mirage. Basically a person takes the mirage for the Dual. With that said here are two examples of what I mean :

    Fi lead will hide his/her feelings and true preferences and act like a logical person (Ti). A Ti lead will hide his/her logic and true opinions and act like an Ethical person.

    Finally, keep in mind that a Type has two modus operandi : One mode directed at the socion (externalities in Model G ) and One mode directed at close psychological distance (Internalities) i.e. with the people you know well like family and friends. Now, here is the key trick :

    If you are an Extrovert (Lead function is directed outside) then you'll behave and appear like an Introvert at close psychological distance (Internalities)
    If you are an Introvert (Lead function is directed inside (within)) then you'll behave and appear like an Extrovert at close psychological distance (Internalities) .

    Probs to Maria (IEI) from Ben Vaserlan channel from whom I got most of those insights. I hope that helped.
    The mirage partner of an EII is an ESE. I'm not sure whether you meant that someone would take the mirage of their dual, or the dual of their mirage. I don't think the first would theoretically make sense. The second would mean that I would have to have exposure to a mirage partner. Potentially, this could be my mom. Normally I would doubt this because I don't have any kind of dual interaction with her, but I've had realizations that basically say that this could be true.

    As for extrovert/introvert, I guess this happened on the forums. I guess this wouldn't have helped me because I was trying to choose between ILI and EII, but it's still useful information.

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    So I realized that I actually used Ne to support Fi. There was a scenario I imagined where someone said that someone was unethical. In the scenario, I said "well maybe she x". That should be looking at the situation from an alternate perspective (Ne) to support a viewpoint about ethics (Fi). This is something I would normally do without even really thinking. I probably did this pretty often on the forums, which is why various individuals thought that I was LII (they were probably detecting Ne).

    The following also supports my typing as an EII:
    -A positivist interpretation of language. I interpret water cups as half full, and it's difficult for my brain to interpret them otherwise. The key thing is that the negativist dichotomy doesn't seem to be an analysis of what's different from expected (otherwise, I wouldn't be analyzing food this way).
    -My interest in food, colors, and weather conditions. I've said in a few threads that I have certain preferences and attitudes towards these. It's important that I'm even considering my opinion on these important (if I had Si in the Super-Ego position, I probably wouldn't be).
    -Decent personality modeling and understanding of Fe. I have a talking style that might be too exciting for an ILI.
    -A good ability to teach people by getting to the essence of a concept. While I probably haven't showed this on the forums, I have historically. This is in the Ne-lead descriptions.

    This has the following implications:
    -Ethical types can look very logical to many individuals. I suspect this is because of Socionics Subtype, DCNH Subtype, Enneagram, Tritype, SLOAN, Attitudinal Psyche, potentially Instinctual Stack, and lifestyle (things such as psychological stress an exposure to others, as godslave mentioned).
    -DCNH subtypes sometimes like their conflictors, H types sometimes resemble their Super-Ego or Look-A-Like partners, or the conflictors theory is wrong. The second makes sense because the H description in the "The Empirical Portraits" source is said to be a second creative. By VI (me looking at others who have already been VI'd), I seem to at least sometimes like C's and at least sometimes be wary around D's. This should not be the case if I'm N, which is what I should be if I resemble a LSI or LII.
    -Ethical types can have very high distaste for their ignoring function.
    -Ethical types can have some distaste for other ethical types. In some cases, Mirage types can look like conflictors to them.
    -Super-Ego and Look-A-Like partners can look highly interesting, maybe even more than duals or semi-duals.
    -Benefactors sometimes don't look interesting to Beneficiaries.
    -Static types can imagine things in moving pictures. They can also remember things in moving pictures, although this might not be an actual memory but instead an imagination-generated version of a memory. I can "remember" myself using the faucet for example, but I don't think this is actually an exact memory of me using the faucet but rather a memory-like imagination based on what I know about faucets.

    This also has the following implications for testing:
    -The Model G source posted by AWellArmedCat is potentially useful.
    -Sol's VI test can be problematic for typing. However, it can also show what cognitive function priorities you have (in my case, it showed that I preferred Te-Fi over Fe-Ti).

    Ultimately, I'll change my TIM to Ne-EII-NH for the following reasons:
    -I match the description for Ne-EII more than Fi-EII.
    -I show ethical N characteristics.
    -I show an emphasis on my Role function (Ti).
    -I show a romanticization and desire to use my PoLR function (Se). This implies that I have H in a high position.
    Last edited by Clarke; 11-24-2022 at 02:27 PM.

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    During my psychological stress period, I made the following observations:
    -I appeared to use Fe and Ni to make judgements (by both definitions, I think).
    -I also occasionally seemed to use Ne to make judgements (by both definitions).
    -I explained why I did things by talking about their practical value instead of just saying "I guess I'm doing it for fun" (this implies MBTI or Socionics Te).

    This means that I'm likely an INFP in MBTI and the corresponding type in Socionics. Ultimately this at least means that I'm not a counterexample to the theory that MBTI and Socionics can be interconverted.

    I think based on my ITR's with others, they are the following types:
    -Dad: LSI.
    -Mom: Unknown type. ESE or SEI are possible. She appears to be something stressed because she's nonstandard for her type. I think that SEI is more likely because she prioritizes Si materials over basically everything else in her life. This implies that godslave's Mirage theory didn't have any influence on me unless I had significant contact with a person who types as ESE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clarke View Post
    The mirage partner of an EII is an ESE. I'm not sure whether you meant that someone would take the mirage of their dual, or the dual of their mirage. I don't think the first would theoretically make sense. The second would mean that I would have to have exposure to a mirage partner. Potentially, this could be my mom. Normally I would doubt this because I don't have any kind of dual interaction with her, but I've had realizations that basically say that this could be true.
    As a reminder, The Mirage is a Symmetrical ITR (kinda vice versa). I meant in society because of the role function an EII (to use your example) might at first take an ESE for an LSE and an ESE might take an EII for an LII. They both (the Mirage and the Dual) share the same temperament and energy (EJ and Ij in our example).

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    Quote Originally Posted by godslave View Post
    As a reminder, The Mirage is a Symmetrical ITR (kinda vice versa). I meant in society because of the role function an EII (to use your example) might at first take an ESE for an LSE and an ESE might take an EII for an LII. They both (the Mirage and the Dual) share the same temperament and energy (EJ and Ij in our example).
    So I'm guessing that you're saying that by chance, an EII might resemble their mirage's dual. I guess I don't understand the significance of this, since we could also say that an EII resembles their Look-A-Like or that they resemble their Benefactor's Quasi-Identical. I'm not saying this is problematic, I just don't understand the functionality of it.

    This might also imply that all EII's resemble LII's in society, or that all EII's resemble LII's to ESE's in society. It seems like many people here who have thought that I was a LII weren't ESE's (one seemed to be a LIE).

    I actually don't think I've ever mistaken an ESE for a LSE. They're completely different. Maybe I just haven't had enough exposure to non-standard people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clarke View Post
    So I'm guessing that you're saying that by chance, an EII might resemble their mirage's dual.
    yes they might, at initial contact and it's true for all the Mirage ITR.

    I guess I don't understand the significance of this, since we could also say that an EII resembles their Look-A-Like or that they resemble their Benefactor's Quasi-Identical. I'm not saying this is problematic, I just don't understand the functionality of it.
    We could reframe and equate the ITRs in so many configurations if we involve all the TIMs in relation to a single TIM indeed but I like to keep things simple and after all each ITR involves only two TIMs. As for the "functionalities" : https://socioniks.net/en/article/?id=95

    This might also imply that all EII's resemble LII's in society, or that all EII's resemble LII's to ESE's in society. It seems like many people here who have thought that I was a LII weren't ESE's (one seemed to be a LIE).
    Yes, that's true and it's related to the Role Function. We are talking "in society" and at far psychological distance the Mirages are naturally drawn to each other (because of the Role Function). Once the persons begin to reveal themselves to each other that initial confusion disappears but the ITR overall "feel" remains of course. That was my initial point.

    I actually don't think I've ever mistaken an ESE for a LSE. They're completely different. Maybe I just haven't had enough exposure to non-standard people.
    Maybe at close psychological distance. But in the socion while in their social adaptation (let's call it social persona even if it's not quite right) they are basically EJ temperament and the Fe or Te can be very persuasive even for a 2D function.

    Note that in the light of socionics a retroactive shift in our perspective is kinda expected but it before socionics knowledge and typing people (assuming that they are typed correctly of course) we probably didn't have a clue about why those kinds of alchemies happens. Btw, with the Dual it's the opposite phenomenon. The Dual pair are not attracted to each other at far psychological distance (again because of the Role function !) but the more they know each other the more the Duality becomes obvious. We see that dualisation process a lot in romantic comedies, drama and books.

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    Quote Originally Posted by godslave View Post
    yes they might, at initial contact and it's true for all the Mirage ITR.


    We could reframe and equate the ITRs in so many configurations if we involve all the TIMs in relation to a single TIM indeed but I like to keep things simple and after all each ITR involves only two TIMs. As for the "functionalities" : https://socioniks.net/en/article/?id=95


    Yes, that's true and it's related to the Role Function. We are talking "in society" and at far psychological distance the Mirages are naturally drawn to each other (because of the Role Function). Once the persons begin to reveal themselves to each other that initial confusion disappears but the ITR overall "feel" remains of course. That was my initial point.


    Maybe at close psychological distance. But in the socion while in their social adaptation (let's call it social persona even if it's not quite right) they are basically EJ temperament and the Fe or Te can be very persuasive even for a 2D function.

    Note that in the light of socionics a retroactive shift in our perspective is kinda expected but it before socionics knowledge and typing people (assuming that they are typed correctly of course) we probably didn't have a clue about why those kinds of alchemies happens. Btw, with the Dual it's the opposite phenomenon. The Dual pair are not attracted to each other at far psychological distance (again because of the Role function !) but the more they know each other the more the Duality becomes obvious. We see that dualisation process a lot in romantic comedies, drama and books.
    I wasn't talking about close psychological distance. I saw a male ESE in Sol's IR test, and it looked completely different from what I'd expect a LSE to look like. I was attracted to the LSE's in Sol's video more than the ESE's, which seemed kind of dumb.

    This doesn't really work for SEE's/IEE's either (provided I'm an ILI). Both of the Ne-base types I saw in the IR test were annoying.

    Edit: I looked back at the thread. Some of the ESE video thumbnails look like LSE's. Maybe this has validity.

    Note that I didn't watch these videos.

    Edit 2: I watched one of the videos, and he seemed to be acting like a LSE. The other video wasn't available. I think this generally means that sometimes ESE's resemble LSE's, and not other times.

    So this would imply that to ESE's, some EII's might look like LII's.

    A question I have is, do those EII's look like LII's to other people?

    Edit 3: I think I misinterpreted a post. You said they might misinterpret a mirage type to be their dual. Therefore, you seem to be right.
    Last edited by Clarke; 11-24-2022 at 09:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clarke View Post
    I wasn't talking about close psychological distance. I saw a male ESE in Sol's IR test, and it looked completely different from what I'd expect a LSE to look like. I was attracted to the LSE's in Sol's video more than the ESE's, which seemed kind of dumb.

    This doesn't really work for SEE's/IEE's either (provided I'm an ILI). Both of the Ne-base types I saw in the ITR test were annoying.

    Edit: I looked back at the thread. Some of the ESE video thumbnails look like LSE's. Maybe this has validity.
    Precisely !

    Here is a tip that I apply to myself : Don't underestimate the power of the Role Function. It's the function that is shown the most in society especially in social medias like Youtube. I think that The Roe F. "superficiality" is obvious to the TIMs who have that IE in their strong functions.
    In order for an ITR "feel" to be relevant, obviously both types must be well...correctly typed ! People are prone to type quickly or trust other's typing too much. We all do mistakes so before jumping to conclusions we must make sure that our violins are in tune to use a french expression. And Trust your intuition !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clarke View Post
    So I realized that I actually used Ne to support Fi. There was a scenario I imagined where someone said that someone was unethical. In the scenario, I said "well maybe she x". That should be looking at the situation from an alternate perspective (Ne) to support a viewpoint about ethics (Fi).
    This isn't reliable anymore. I won't change my TIM for now.

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    @Clarke I only read OP for this evaluation as follows. I agree that you seem ILI. ESI was a distant second from some of your lines & your avatar somehow lol but....you are not down to earth and you are just too "intuitive", I just sense how you have a real ease talking about all those conceptual things nicely summing them up and you don't try to have very set opinions on things. To me personally, it is also relaxing like, I don't know, but it's nice. Maybe just because I've known some people like that.


    OK I glimpsed at your post #40 now lol, and I really want to comment on your observations on imagination so:

    - (Firstoff before imagination stuff) If you would not say you are altruistic or kind, like an "empath", then that really excludes EII, I know that's a stereotype but hey
    - I found your desc of your imagination interesting&fascinating. If I have imagination it's spontaneous and I never know why the "internal context" is the way it is. Actually mind saying more on what you mean by "internal context"? Is it just things like, where the place is in the future, details of the imagined events?
    - I find it funny/strange (not in a bad way) that it hurts your brain to imagine the still image of the tree. For me it's naturally still. The only thing that's "moving scenes" in my imagination is emotional, dramatic stories, with people in the scenes, their faces, body languages & all the interactions between people. How well do you imagine that kind of stuff?
    - You seem like a very introspective person, someone who really enjoys that stuff.

    (Sorry I can't give you a type as far as my typing, or this would actually be helpful as some contrast But maybe it can help show something)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clarke View Post
    I guess it makes sense for Se valuing to like violence in concept. I don't always like violence, especially chaotic violence, but for some reason war and death appeals to me. Usually, I seem to like it when it's systematic or ordered in some way, which is why I thought maybe it was attached to Te instead of Se.

    I've thought that maybe death didn't always appeal to me, and I just made it appeal to me by numbing myself to the negative reactions I had to it. I think war always appealed to me as a concept, though.
    I'm coming back to your thread.

    Can you say more on how war as a *concept* appeals to you? And ordered, systematic, like? Do you like analyses of wars? I like to read the analyses on the war in Ukraine by a guy who I'm pretty sure isn't "high" for Se, or even Se valuing. He's just thorough and logical and nice to read, tho' I feel like he overdoes some of the explaining but he's very well informed, clearly has done his homework on the topics he writes about, so that makes his writings good.


    While I seem uninterested in Te, I'm actually very uninterested in what I think is Fe. The extraversion of feelings to improve mood usually bothers me. Things that tend to have positive emotions and "happiness" tend to bug me on some kind of deep instinctual level. The tone of voice that comes with optimism feels bad for some reason. Not to be too impolite to Fe users here, but it feels "gross" and almost physically hurts.
    Yeah I mean I'm sticking with Fe PoLR for you. That's just....classic stereotypical Fe PoLR. Also I still find you a very indecisive type and wanting to gather alot of facts rather than rushing to judgments, so another point for ILI

    The only other option I can imagine for you is if I got it wrong about you being so intuitive, in which case it'd be SLI.

    (I don't think I will have any new idea about your typing, it's either one of these two as far as I'm concerned)

    I mean if types even matter, lol. Like, as an example, if you weren't always indecisive like this, then it's not really due to type i.e. inborn temperament/character, just due to something that's happened later in life.

    Personality in psychology is defined as an enduring pattern of thoughts, feelings, behaviours, and the like, throughout most situations and throughout most of the life of the individual. So, the same for personality types.


    Quote Originally Posted by Clarke View Post
    Sometimes I see myself as resembling various other people. While I was writing the above post, I imagined my wording as being similar to Paladin Danse's from Fallout 4. These are usually a source of paranoia for me because I think they have some implication about my type (I typed Paladin Danse as a LSE, and the other likely thing he could be is a LSI based on others' typing of him).

    I don't think I used to be paranoid about this before I learned about personality types.
    I feel like, when you're having this paranoia, it would be helpful to cut the dots you've been connecting between the little observation (your impression of your own wording) and sociotypes. Try to find a non-socionics explanation for your bit of impression, or try to put it aside, until you have an idea about it later (again non-socionics). Or you can try and see what's behind/below the surface for your impression. If you're not able to go behind/below it is when it's time to put it aside as an observation without any explanation (let alone "socionical explanations"). Just my advice. Trust me, anything non-socionics will be a better explanation for these types of impressions, than anything that Socionics could ever offer you.

    IMO the paranoia is a sign that the train of thought is going the wrong way. Paranoia has usually got nothing to do with reality.

    I don't know if it is type related in any way.... I would say, probably not. Either way, the only one person I've ever heard talk like this, was an ILI-Te girl


    I've only really been confused about myself after I got into personality types. Before then, I wasn't really that confused about who I was, or what I really wanted in life.
    So wait what made you get into personality types in the first place?

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