Quadra values: To what extent do you believe in them?

[Subteigh]

?

[Subteigh]

I think in Socionics terms, the clubs (NF, NT, SF, ST) are far more meaningful than "quadra values": It is far more common for me to see people of each club find others of the same club when forming groups, and to enjoy the company of others from the same club.

I think the temperaments (EJ, EP, IJ, IP) are also more meaningful, although not so interesting. Gulenko is probably on to something in terms of his DCNH subtypes idea.

Aside from this, I think there's far more important factors than "quadra values" outside Socionics conjectures that Socionics simply does not consider at least as part of its central tenets.

[Squirrel]

I'm okay with it but I don't consider it the most important thing in the type

[Poptart]

Getting typed by the mighty and powerful Dr. Gulenko is an essential beta quadra value.

[adage]

Getting typed by the mighty and powerful Dr. Gulenko is an essential beta quadra value.

So anyone can join the beta gang by getting G typing?
Cool.

[Poptart]

So anyone can join the beta gang by getting G typing?
Cool.

Sure if that’s what you want

[mr drapetomaniac]

Subliminal. I seem to like/need a good struggle. Overcoming obstacles (that are quite removed from the everyday life). #EasyLifeNOT4Me

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

i beleive u can draw patterns across types, but i dont fully believe in the verbal definitions online bc interpretation can vary. words aloen cant convey the full meaning, or if they can someone needs to be very good with using them. i dont think of it in terms of "values". u can say IEI and EII have similar values but also IEI and SLE.

[FreelancePoliceman]

Yeah, I think having the same valued functions clearly makes some similarities in outlook. Doesn't necessarily have much to do with who you get along with. The aristocratic/democratic dichotomy is a pretty noticeable example of this I think. Alphas and Gammas, then Betas and Deltas, are a kind of mirror you can use to look at the other.

[Pseudomorph]

@Subteigh How about a Gulenko alien?

[adage]

Sure if that’s what you want

Yay, I wanna be SLE.

[Pseudomorph]

Getting typed by the mighty and powerful Dr. Gulenko is an essential beta quadra value.

Tell that to a certain user so he'll stop typing everyone IEI.

[WVBRY]

Not sure.

Anecdotally speaking, I have seen some evidence for it, but it's difficult to corroborate to something more observable.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I think they are true, but come out to play the more ppl of the quadras u get together- otherwise might not notice as much. I think NFs have similar values in a way regardless of type, same with NTs/STs/SFs etc. But the more u put those types with ppl of their own quadra, the more they will advocate for their quadra values in pure and obvious ways. In small groups for example, it can be more common for Beta NFs to get along with Delta NFs then we do Beta STs - but put too many Delta NFs together and they start to act like their shit doesn't stink and they act too holier than thou for me in an aggrandizing way. Society should be wary of unhealthy STs the most regardless of what quadra they are in, as they are the type most likely to snap your neck for real. Sensor + thinking type can be quite sadistic. Unhealthy NTs often wish they were STs, but often they are just cruel to u without really doing much about it. ((well ILI threw a stapler at LSE boss once- but I mean he just kinda threw it at the room and didn't really aim for her.))

It's both getting along with others and impacting society. It naturally makes people feel the most powerful and like Gods when they both like the people they are around and if they have a lot of mastery and control over their external environment.

[nifl]

some people may have a stronger aversion to activity relating to the non-valued functions
if values/non-values is accepted, then quadra values is too

[Exodus]

To summarize, I do think the quadras are observable qualities of individual types, but more clearly the valued functions (so that the suggestive function is sometimes not very visible and other functions like the demonstrative function can also be very visible, a la the presence cube). This is more visible than clubs and definitely more than most other categories people use such as temperaments, cognitive styles, Reinin dichotomies (including Aristocratic/Democratic), etc.

When it comes to intertype relationships the situation is a lot more thorny, I do find that people tend to get along better with types in the same quadra with the proviso that Se valuing types have more conflict generally so they might end up hating each other too.

[Subteigh]

I appreciate that my recent poll topics may overlap, but I saw value in a different emphasis each time and perhaps discussing on what is actually meant by a concept (what is essential etc.).

[Subteigh]

@Subteigh How about a Gulenko alien?

[Perdite vixi]

I've seen evidence in favour of discrete factors but none to suggest a person is locked into one of the wider combinations of α/β/γ/δ values

aristocracy is a good example; there are without a doubt people who have this inclination (who don't of course happen to be actual aristocrats). But if I worked out whether or not the person is judicious or decisive after observing aristocratic traits, then, if socionics were reliable, merry/serious dichotomy should follow (e.g., aristocratic + judicious must also be serious), but I've never seen strong evidence of the combinations representing salient aspects of every personality outside collections of brainwashed forumites

Although all character traits espoused by socionics are I think without a doubt found somewhere, I've an impression socionics dichotomies are essentially false