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Thread: Human Wickedness

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    Thumbs down Human Wickedness

    Yes, I have posted this in the "Lifestyle" subsection intentionally.

    How do you deal with human wickedness? The real issue with it is not all human wickedness is equal and no one is compelled to be as bad as most people are, much less as bad as the worst people are. The Catholic Church has child molesters but the reason people freak out is most people would never dream of that, and most people are still nowhere near saints. Even in almost every religion, literally, most people are not saints since saints means people who are blessed as opposed to damned. However, also in almost every religion, you are not officially allowed to act like a horrible person with impunity and just say sorry even if most people, being horrible people themselves, treat it otherwise. Even Martin Luther said that, despite the fact that he believed salvation was based on faith alone, if you have faith you will also have works as a result of your faith. I'm not Lutheran at all by the way. Just all these religious leaders seem to tell people not to be horrible, yet people, being people, are consistently and unfailingly horrible anyway.

    So how you solve a problem like almost every human being? Well, "turn to God" seems like an obvious answer but that doesn't solve everything. Generally, it seems like you're not supposed to solve everything anyway and if life were easy it would be very different than the actual life we have to live in almost every way.



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    Just do what good you can. If there's something you feel is unjust, then by all means speak out and try to correct the injustice. But also know the easiest thing to do is start with yourself. Set a good example for others, and you can in turn influence those around you to be better too.

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    1. Remembrance of God
    2. Minimize contact with spiritually-unhealthy people
    3. Leave everything to God to handle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manatroid92 View Post
    Just do what good you can. If there's something you feel is unjust, then by all means speak out and try to correct the injustice. But also know the easiest thing to do is start with yourself. Set a good example for others, and you can in turn influence those around you to be better too.
    The problem is, even though I see bad people, I think most of them do know they're bad. I think most of them don't care, and they think they're one-upping people by putting on their façades. But I see through that automatically. Would I want to not see through it? No, then I would just be being duped like most people dupe each other. Feeling "normal" is not remotely worth the cost of being screwed over. But that doesn't make being aware of it easier by itself. It's always better to know the truth than to not know the truth, but when the truth is not something easy to deal with, it's still difficult to know the truth. That's just how life intrinsically works I've decided.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Coeruleum Blue View Post
    The problem is, even though I see bad people, I think most of them do know they're bad. I think most of them don't care, and they think they're one-upping people by putting on their façades. But I see through that automatically. Would I want to not see through it? No, then I would just be being duped like most people dupe each other. Feeling "normal" is not remotely worth the cost of being screwed over. But that doesn't make being aware of it easier by itself. It's always better to know the truth than to not know the truth, but when the truth is not something easy to deal with, it's still difficult to know the truth. That's just how life intrinsically works I've decided.
    I guess it all depends how we are defining 'bad'. Depending on someone's socio-economic position in life, their upbringing, their mental state, all that stuff, can lead people to just not care so much about other people outside of their loved ones. Some people are just apathetic, and understandably so. I'm more of the opinion that the people who have power and choose to abuse it are the ones who are truly committing 'evil', so to speak. It's much easier for me to be less condemning of the 'little guy'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manatroid92 View Post
    I guess it all depends how we are defining 'bad'. Depending on someone's socio-economic position in life, their upbringing, their mental state, all that stuff, can lead people to just not care so much about other people outside of their loved ones. Some people are just apathetic, and understandably so. I'm more of the opinion that the people who have power and choose to abuse it are the ones who are truly committing 'evil', so to speak. It's much easier for me to be less condemning of the 'little guy'.
    If all the 'little guys' acted in their best interest, there wouldn't be the 'big bads.' Where would Hilter be without all the people who voted for him, for example?



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    Quote Originally Posted by Coeruleum Blue View Post
    So how you solve a problem like almost every human being?
    what kind of question is this? do you want to deal with wickedness or be normal?

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    if they are truly guilty/have real faith or wahtever help them grow. if they dont grow or improve then treat them as they treat others. this does not mean in the literal way, but if someone decides to be a lower person consistently, u should respond in return because u cant keep giving endlessly. and use MBTI racism to sort bad from good so u know who's worth what
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    If it's just a crappy people you come across, ignore them. Let karma handle them. However, if it's some wickedness on the macro level, something must be done, because wrongs don't right on their own normally (if nobody doesn't do anything). The problem is scope and timing. Acting like a bull in a china shop isn't usually the best course of action.

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    It's very dispiriting to me to see instances of awfulness in the world, even when I try to reassure myself that things are much less bad than in the past. It seems like misery and pain are extremely common.

    I try not to read about bad World News unless it is especially significant: such news just leaves me feeling powerless to make it all better. Local News I generally avoid it altogether apart from when I encounter headlines that are of particular interest: Local News is probably better, but I guess I want to avoid local stories (good or bad) where I might compare myself to a person and there's too much risk of reading some comparatively insignificant horror story happening near to where I live.

    Really, you should try to focus only on things you can actually do something to improve the situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coeruleum Blue
    If all the 'little guys' acted in their best interest, there wouldn't be the 'big bads.' Where would Hilter be without all the people who voted for him, for example?
    A lot of those little guys are acting that way because they’ve been told it’s what is best for them by the powers that be (and I don’t mean religious institutions, not specifically, but they can be included too).

    People who are dug-into their beliefs are hard to be shaken from them, especially if their environment informed them to be that way. For those people it takes a lot — and I mean a helluva lot — of patience, understanding and persistence to convince them that their anger, though valid, is misdirected, or that certain people are not ‘out to get them’, or that people the bad actors of a certain race or religion are not representative of the whole group.
    It has to be kept in mind that, as bad as people may act or as inhumane as they may seem, there’s a reason they got to be that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalinoche buenanoche View Post
    what kind of question is this? do you want to deal with wickedness or be normal?
    Ah, syntactic ambiguity! I mean that almost every human being is the problem.



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    Quote Originally Posted by lavos View Post
    If it's just a crappy people you come across, ignore them. Let karma handle them. However, if it's some wickedness on the macro level, something must be done, because wrongs don't right on their own normally (if nobody doesn't do anything). The problem is scope and timing. Acting like a bull in a china shop isn't usually the best course of action.
    It becomes increasingly difficult to ignore almost everyone.



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    — Richard Feynman, Rogers Commission Report, on the Challenger disaster.

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    You can translate every single existing thing into a system of objects which interact by X algorithms to the point they generate an emergent, organic system. A clock, a state, or a lightning bolt are animated by the same ἰδέα and it can often even be translated on paper.

    Even these system (or syntheses of systems) tend to work as simple objects for other systems.

    When you take a look at human motivations, most of the times wickedness and malevolence are algorithms through which the system strengthens itself and purges any non-functioning or malfunctioning simple unit.

    Even when there's parasitic elites their motivations are influenced (yet influence) the organic system.

    I've been very resentful towards social systems in general because I have always seen them as malevolence-generating engines, and I've been specially harsh on malevolent thinking and behavior.

    I've always been very cognizant of the ἰδέα of things, and the problem is that behind every malevolent action I always see the same ἰδέα and it's usually directly or indirectly derived from a system's maintenance or fortification. Usually, the organic orientation of individuals serves as the system's foundation, and so often the ἰδέα is the same no matter if we're talking about Russia or about the some fandom collective.

    But on a mental level I can perfectly understand such thing perfectly, and if there's anything from which we can derive absolute ethics it is either social cohesion methods (in which the aforementioned malevolence fits like a glove, where the only valid reason to oppose that malevolence is because of campaigning for a better algorithm or whole system) or from the principles of reason/objectivations of the will/Geist parts as well as the will/ ἰδέα / Geist/ thing on itself / Divinity, and this functioning will either be dictated by that or be portions of that essence, therefore it must be moral, it must be the highest moral order.

    But my inner self still holds great resentment towards malevolence and the malevolent, so there's a conflict between my thoughts and my inner sense of justice.

    Dunno, maybe I'm experienced in the injusticed position, or my subconscious has decided to take on that position, and thus my sense of justice rejects organic social systems in order to protect itself from malevolence, seeing itself as a default non-contributive unit on the system, or easy prey for it's strengthening ...
    Last edited by RBRS; 10-06-2022 at 08:58 AM.
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    Thinking you have to be good or perfect in society probably indirectly causes things like child molestation out of a sense of natural balance. That sounds crazy to some people, but it makes perfect sense to me. Day and night naturally bleed into one another, so if u feel forced to feel like u always have to listen to authority and have a good image- it will also create a shadow image in you that likes to eat baby foreskin. ((this is also why people have a natural distrust for too much government, because so many government officials do come off this way))

    Hello, this is CPS. I want to pretend to care about kids cuz I really want to legally sex traffic them.

    Likewise, ppl who are like 'I'd shoot pedos in the head' are often cruel and selfish and assholes, and know they are assholes and not nice- but they still realize how fucked up pedophilia is, probably more than anybody else- because their shadow also creates a light that helps them protect children. We're taught though there is no middle way, we either play the Game of Thrones or we die but we gain our morality and 'soul' that way, so the middle way is still the highest and best way. Most religions and practices have this concept. Being good isn't about being self-righteously good like a Starr Commonwealth social worker (that really is what creates Buffalo Bill), but more about properly integrating your shadow and realizing you can be evil or you can be good- and it's often a choice, and not always so simple.

    Would it surprise me if Oprah was caught being a pedophile? Probably not- she was abused herself and she has a narc image that she has to be some faux-compassionate savior of the human race, and naturally the flip side of that would be the thing everybody hates the most: a pedo. Would it surprise a 'Karen' if Oprah turned out to be a pedo? Obviously, of course. The inner Shadow Karen in me tells me I should love and accept my own Karen-ness- but everything in moderation especially moderation. So no Shadow Karen, I will never like you and we will now boss fight to the death!

    The priesthood itself is causing pedophilia, by guilt tripping people into feeling guilty and dirty over things they shouldn't feel dirty or guilty for. So when it comes to feeling guilty over diddling kids- why or how could they? Naturally the urge to do it would override any consequences when you've put somebody into a mind funk like that. Talk about a lack of personal responsibility. What is a soul? If there's no physical materialism between what having a soul or not.... then it kind of means nothing to me. Not that I'm a nerdy wiccan Atheist that plays too much Dungeons and Dragons (I play Miitopia instead <3), but those people IRL have always been easier to talk to and had more genuine empathy in a way as they seem to understand urban worldliness in a more relatable way despite wanting to level up their Mage Dwarf Ogre or whatever. But that's just my own bias of thinking people like me are 'good' I guess, but everybody does that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazaam View Post
    Thinking you have to be good or perfect in society probably indirectly causes things like child molestation out of a sense of natural balance. That sounds crazy to some people, but it makes perfect sense to me. Day and night naturally bleed into one another, so if u feel forced to feel like u always have to listen to authority and have a good image- it will also create a shadow image in you that likes to eat baby foreskin. ((this is also why people have a natural distrust for too much government, because so many government officials do come off this way))

    Hello, this is CPS. I want to pretend to care about kids cuz I really want to legally sex traffic them.

    Likewise, ppl who are like 'I'd shoot pedos in the head' are often cruel and selfish and assholes, and know they are assholes and not nice- but they still realize how fucked up pedophilia is, probably more than anybody else- because their shadow also creates a light that helps them protect children. We're taught though there is no middle way, we either play the Game of Thrones or we die but we gain our morality and 'soul' that way, so the middle way is still the highest and best way. Most religions and practices have this concept. Being good isn't about being self-righteously good like a Starr Commonwealth social worker (that really is what creates Buffalo Bill), but more about properly integrating your shadow and realizing you can be evil or you can be good- and it's often a choice, and not always so simple.

    Would it surprise me if Oprah was caught being a pedophile? Probably not- she was abused herself and she has a narc image that she has to be some faux-compassionate savior of the human race, and naturally the flip side of that would be the thing everybody hates the most: a pedo. Would it surprise a 'Karen' if Oprah turned out to be a pedo? Obviously, of course. The inner Shadow Karen in me tells me I should love and accept my own Karen-ness- but everything in moderation especially moderation. So no Shadow Karen, I will never like you and we will now boss fight to the death!

    The priesthood itself is causing pedophilia, by guilt tripping people into feeling guilty and dirty over things they shouldn't feel dirty or guilty for. So when it comes to feeling guilty over diddling kids- why or how could they? Naturally the urge to do it would override any consequences when you've put somebody into a mind funk like that. Talk about a lack of personal responsibility. What is a soul? If there's no physical materialism between what having a soul or not.... then it kind of means nothing to me. Not that I'm a nerdy wiccan Atheist that plays too much Dungeons and Dragons (I play Miitopia instead <3), but those people IRL have always been easier to talk to and had more genuine empathy in a way as they seem to understand urban worldliness in a more relatable way despite wanting to level up their Mage Dwarf Ogre or whatever. But that's just my own bias of thinking people like me are 'good' I guess, but everybody does that.
    I think you're reading too much into people you don't know personally when applying the concept of the shadow.

    I believe the problem with catholics and pedophilia is that lots of priests who are there are actual homosexuals but they self-repress their instincts due to their faith, which sexually warps them.

    They also have a lot of access to children, and these children usually come from devout catholic communities where parents cover up the abuse to maintain their social system intact (which I talked about in my previous post).

    Btw the church talks about virtue but normies cannot follow, therefore rampant materialism is not a pretty good argument. Contemporary, urban society is usually far more alienating than religious fanaticism even.
    Last edited by RBRS; 10-06-2022 at 09:38 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RBRS View Post
    I think you're reading too much into people you don't know personally when applying the concept of the shadow.

    I think the problem with catholics and pedophilia is that lots of priests who are there are actual homosexuals but they self-repress their instincts due to their faith, which sexually warps them.

    They also have a lot of access to children, and these children usually come from devout catholic communities where parents cover up the abuse to maintain their social system intact (which I talked about in my previous post).
    No. Gay men are attracted to men. They're not attracted to children.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chriscorey View Post
    No. Gay men are attracted to men. They're not attracted to children.
    Such a thing I didn't say.

    But sexual repression and it's effect on the Shadow can fuck up somebody.

    Anyways (And I know this is not going to be very popular but...)

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1556756/
    Last edited by RBRS; 10-06-2022 at 09:47 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RBRS View Post
    Such a thing I didn't say.

    But sexual repression and it's effect on the Shadow can fuck up somebody.

    Anyways (And I know this is not going to be very popular but...)

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1556756/
    Do you have any studies to support this claim? People don't just turn into pedophiles. fucking ridiculous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chriscorey View Post
    Do you have any studies to support this claim? People don't just turn into pedophiles. fucking ridiculous.
    I lack studies for such a thing, in fact there's studies that claim the opposite (sexually liberated people, chronic masturbators, promiscuous people seem to have a tendency to develop pederastic deviancies). That, and childhood abuse are usually the cause for these sexual deviancies.

    People turn into child molesters, nobody is born this way

    Both cases, although seemingly opposite, are not contradictory, as a mental health issue can come from different starting points.

    Nobody has psychoanalyzed pedophile priests yet, nobody would take such a thing seriously, that doesn't mean one cannot theorise on such ocurrences.

    There's that explorative study which results point out to the fact that there's a significant bigger proportionality of homosexual pedophiles. Doesn't mean homosexuals are more likely to abuse children though.
    Last edited by RBRS; 10-06-2022 at 10:21 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RBRS View Post
    I lack studies for such a thing, in fact there's studies that claim the opposite (sexually liberated people, chronic masturbators, promiscuous people seem to have a tendency to develop pederastic deviancies). That, and childhood abuse are usually the cause for these sexual deviancies.

    People turn into pedophiles, nobody is
    born this way

    Both cases, although seemingly opposite, are not contradictory, as a mental health issue can come from different starting points.

    Nobody has psychoanalyzed pedophile priests yet, nobody would take such a thing seriously, that doesn't mean one cannot theorise on such ocurrences.

    There's that explorative study which results point out to the fact that there's a significant bigger proportionality of homosexual pedophiles. Doesn't mean homosexuals are more likely to abuse children though.
    How do you know that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chriscorey View Post
    How do you know that?
    Acting upon pedophilic tendencies is often associated with psychological problems (not al pedophiles do act on it).
    If I'm not answering you, I'm either procrastinating a response, or I've judged the conversation as fruitless/already settled prior to the debate for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RBRS View Post
    Acting upon pedophilic tendencies is often associated with psychological problems (not al pedophiles do act on it).
    Okay, people can be born with psychological problems. Look at Jeffery Dahmer.

    None of this negates the fact that people don't turn into pedophiles due to celibacy. That's insane.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chriscorey View Post
    Okay, people can be born with psychological problems. Look at Jeffery Dahmer.
    But also does come from nurtural reasons, of which self-repression can be one. And even more on such conditions.

    Pedophiles (not molesters not fetishized) per se are probably born with that sexual orientation, like homosexuals for example.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RBRS View Post
    But also does come from nurtural reasons, of which self-repression can be one. And even more on such conditions.

    Pedophiles (not molesters not fetishized) per se are probably born with that sexual orientation, like homosexuals for example.
    Okay. I'm celibate. I'm sexually attracted to adult males. Nothing is going to change that...

    with repression people want more of what they're attracted to, it doesn't change to children. That's an insane idea and you have zero studies to back that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chriscorey View Post
    Okay. I'm celibate. I'm sexually attracted to adult males. Nothing is going to change that...

    with repression people want more of what they're attracted to, it doesn't change to children. That's an insane idea and you have zero studies to back that.
    I was not talking about you, although I understand what I say can be offensive.

    And there's a difference between celibacy and the self-hate and self-denial that comes with repression. Not saying catholic priests turn into neurological pedophiles, but might do sexual abuse more and develop weird fetishes.
    If I'm not answering you, I'm either procrastinating a response, or I've judged the conversation as fruitless/already settled prior to the debate for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RBRS View Post
    I was not talking about you, although I understand what I say can be offensive.

    And there's a difference between celibacy and the self-hate and self-denial that comes with repression. Not saying catholic priests turn into neurological pedophiles, but might do sexual abuse more and develop weird fetishes.
    Okay, fair enough. I posted an article in the other thread with statistics in it.

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    Human Wickedness also reminds me of the concept of Original Evil. Like the First Evil on Buffy, the antagaonist in the Smile movie, the It Clown, somebody also compared it to Maya (Illusion) in Psychology. https://psychology.fandom.com/wiki/Maya_(illusion)

    "For the mystics this manifestation is real, but it is a fleeting reality; it is a mistake, although a natural one, to believe that maya represents a fundamental reality."

    /rubs @Kalionche buenanoche

    Wickedness/Evil needs corporeal evidence and physical standards to me or it's meaingless anyway. I've seen ppl call others wicked that were more innocent or at least not as guilty as they thought and I've seen ppl try to say somebody who truly did have malicious intentions that they were fine and good etc. But that's the reason we arrest people for actually throwing infants down the stairs not just thinking about it. Not that u should think about something like that or that it's okay and normal to think about those things in ways that interfere with ur mental health lol but obviously, "bad thoughts" aren't the same thing as bad intent.

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