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Thread: Sex Abuse Scandal in the Catholic Church

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    Do you recant?
    I'll say that is not a well crafted law, but then again you're the one bringing all this up to try & win an argument I never started or cared about, I've never pledged to want to uphold the Jews customs & traditions. I've never claimed that what you've posted is something divine... the way it reads sounds oddly as if the writer believes justice is being served, this really emphasizes how women were literally treated as potted plants or bags of wheat back then.
    I've discussed this before, but I don't even read the bible the way you're presuming I should, you act as if the bible has to be treated as some perfectly accurate, divine account of all things, but you're literally just reading the Jews history of their civilization and laws. The bible is 66 books written by almost all different authors across thousands of years, in different places, in different languages, for different purposes - it's not even a coherent set of messages. I don't expect it to be what you're presuming it is... To me that is just a passage that some ancient man wrote within the context of a partially functional ancient society that operated very different from ours, making a compromise recording their customs and laws that seemed to resolve problems for them, given the way their society worked back then, with the best of intentions - and that is all, woohoo - you seem to think it should be this divine document perfect in all ways, like there is something magical about it, and that if you can prove it isn't you've somehow proven something about Gods existence.
    Last edited by DogOfDanger; 11-14-2022 at 05:16 AM.

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    Random talk about evolution and purpose, if we don't count some supernatural like god, I don't think it has a purpose

    Something doesn't exist because it has a purpose, it exist because it manage to avoid/ wipe out every trouble thing that deny it's own existence

    Let have a fucking stupid example: In the future, due to technology, you can easily have child without getting pregnant. So, gay man can have child, and overtime gay-gen evolve and their number increase. At some point the entire mankind turn gay? (lol). As I said it does't need to have any purpose to be the surviver at the end, it only need to survive and grow.

    Any conflict between races, religions, gender... seem to have some survival instinct hidden in it. We try to deny thing that we don't like, or things are dangerous to our existence/our value.

    There's no fix balance between things, the world always changes.

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    Your liver has a very clear purpose - to filter toxins out of your blood. This is why nature created it, this is what it does, this is its purpose. Without it your blood would build up toxins very quickly, you would turn into one giant blister, you would become delirious due to the toxins effecting your brain, and you would die in agony...
    Organs have a purpose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DogOfDanger View Post
    Your liver has a very clear purpose - to filter toxins out of your blood. This is why nature created it, this is what it does, this is its purpose. Without it your blood would build up toxins very quickly, you would turn into one giant blister, you would become delirious due to the toxins effecting your brain, and you would die in agony...
    Organs have a purpose.
    Except the appendix and the tonsils. Those are just nature taking creatures for a ride.
    For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.
     Richard Feynman, Rogers Commission Report, on the Challenger disaster.

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    I think the appendix helps maintain the gut microbiome.

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    Hmm... I think purpose is just a way we give meaning to the relationship between object. Like, we see object A serve object B, so we think that the purpose of object A is to serve object B. But this pov can be very rigid, because only a small change in object A or B, or their environment can break this relationship, and the whole purpose turn to ash.

    Exp there are object A, C, D, E exist, but they too weak to survive alone, so they all go extinct. Only A remain because it has some uses for B, so B protect it. But overtime for whatever reason, B extinct, but A still remain because it's not weak anymore, or just because the new environment suit A better. A still live on despite it's no longer serve it's "purpose" serving B

    Suddenly I think about LSI. They seem to be very good at seeing the connection between object, how every object together maintain a "balance state", every object has it's place, serve its purposes. But because Ne polr, they don't like the idea that object can change and no longer serve it's purpose, and then break the system/balance state, so they try to ensure that every object always seve it's purpose.

    But no balance state remain forever. LSI can be very good as system maintainer though.

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    The liver has a complex physical design with a clear purpose which is inherent to it...
    Some people have this tendency to get uncomfortable when any kind of fact or rule is stated... it's an irrational reaction. If you can't accept facts or rules you can't begin to think in detail, you'll be left questioning the most basic things.
    Last edited by DogOfDanger; 09-26-2022 at 02:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DogOfDanger View Post
    The liver has a complex physical design with a clear purpose which is inherent to it...
    Some people have this tendency to get uncomfortable when any kind of fact or rule is stated... it's an irrational reaction. If you can't accept facts or rules you can't begin to think in detail, you'll be left questioning the most basic things.
    Yes I agree with you about the fact, the liver does what it does for now. But it's "purpose" never in a strict state, through evolution it may get more or less abilities/role, or become nearly irrelevant but still exist like some other part.
    Last edited by Renna; 09-26-2022 at 03:55 PM.

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    But wait.. I talked about a creature's evolution, not a body part...

    It should be "Human existence serve any purpose for the earth?" kind of example lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by DogOfDanger View Post
    What I've said repeatedly is that certain acts aren't primarily explained as being driven by natural instinct, instinct is something that evolved. Every instinct you have exists to hone you toward successful survival and reproduction. In nature instinct can get blocked and express in deferred ways. When that happens, the explanation for the behavior is the circumstances - the blockage of instinct. There are other reason people do things... everything you do is not in line with your natural instincts, or a full, harmonious expression of them.

    And as I've explained twice, Kahns behavior did not occur in natural circumstances, where he would have been beaten over the head by people with boulders if he had gone and raped all the women in the tribe. Behavior that occurs within a social context is not the correct way to model or think about what is or isn't natural, evolved instinct. To think about our instincts, and to understand them, you should think about a tribe of cavemen living in the wilderness in mesopotamia. Those are the kinds of conditions inwhich we evolved. You also have to think in an idealistic way, because you're thinking on scales of billions of years ultimately. Do you understand? I've mentioned to you the fact that alpha male monkeys get ambushed and torn to pieces when their social approval drops below a certain point. If you spent two seconds trying to think critically about what we're talking about, instead of instantly looking for some hole to poke in FACTS about evolution to justify your life and sexuality, you would have thought of these things. But you don't stop for two seconds to look deeper into criticizing your own comments. Instead you expect me to come up with a full, giant rational to address your stupid comments because you made zero effort in thinking them through, because you are only interested in reconfirming to yourself your dogmatic ideological fixations. And you do this because, again, you are a moron.

    And I'm tired of comments about human biology triggering tantrums from borderline, bipolar deluded nuts holding me accountable for their fucking sexual acts when all I try to do is avoid or smooth over their offended egos, where every fucking word I utter or idea I promote has to conform to somehow stoke these peoples fucking deluded ego about how they justify their sex lives. This has gone too far to the point we now pretend - PRETEND - that changing your fucking sex is an inherent biological need, and force us all to DENY INDISPUTABLE FACTS about biology. Fuck-off.
    I'm bisexual and I support this comment. I think I'm well advised to at least consider that my sexuality is unnatural in the context of this discussion. Even IF it occurs in hundreds of other documented mammals and birds.

    I think there was that interesting mouse study that did the rounds a couple years ago. The one where they made a mouse utopia, where eventually generations later there was a social stratified mouse society, and homosexuality was common. What was that all about? Does civilization warp the natural order and in what ways?

    I thought this was common sense stuff. Obviously, going by this thread, it's not.

    You get a lot of social imperative types, on this website "yeah man but that's like, a social construct".

    I think hard social imperative types are deluded themselves towards their animal nature. I also think they are civilization central types. In other words, they have never been in nature, physically. They have never had to survive off their own efforts, or wit, far removed from the trappings of modernity.

    So easy to critique what you think is natural vs unnatural when you've never had to literally survive off your own, complete efforts, or else you will die.

    Civilization makes survival possible, comfortable, lower effort, convenient, safe and secure, luxurious, beautiful.

    But don't mistake, you are an animal and a lot of what you do throughout your life is because of that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renna View Post
    But wait.. I talked about a creature's evolution, not a body part...

    It should be "Human existence serve any purpose for the earth?" kind of example lol
    Of course human existence is fulfilling a purpose. I feel bad you are brainwashed by the current memes of our era. "Man does not belong ".

    We are nature's expression of intelligence and also compassion to a large degree. And all the other qualities good and bad.

    Intelligence and self consciousness arose from nature.

    Maybe we are meant to move species across continents and in the grander, greater time scheme, we are best thing that ever happened to life since the continents were connected. We are helping mix and match genes across vast, impossible distances. We have pulled energy fromtje ground and reimmersed the biome with it.

    All this apocalypse stuff is probably a fetish. Get a ego death and stop projecting your need to end it all into the outer world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post

    I think hard social imperative types are deluded themselves towards their animal nature. I also think they are civilization central types. In other words, they have never been in nature, physically. They have never had to survive off their own efforts, or wit, far removed from the trappings of modernity.

    So easy to critique what you think is natural vs unnatural when you've never had to literally survive off your own, complete efforts, or else you will die.
    a lot of animals dont survive like that. even if a wolf survives onstracized on his own he doesnt reproduce. bears are more solitary, but they can lose to wolves, and humans win wars and drive animals extinct because they mass reproduce and work their miserable lives to suffer so they can make more children they want to make miserable and more weapons. im sick of ppl trying to make themselves out ot be somehow special and better than others because they are assholes.
    there are more females born when there is scarcity. there are more gay people in societies with larger population. i dont know the mechanism of this, but i hate those kind of assumptions that its somehow unnatural. u dont know how this happens. implicitly nothing is unnatural anyway, but people use that term as if to mean "good" or "necessary" and create self contradictory theories that dont factor in everything just to fir their bias and act like thats definietly truth, the only truth and the whole truth.
    Civilization makes survival possible, comfortable, lower effort, convenient, safe and secure, luxurious, beautiful.
    so does human intellect, and so is necessary for the development of a higher intellect. lets turn everything good into garbage so only cockroaches and parasites survive.
    agroculture and civilization came after hunter-gathering, maybe due to scarcity. farmers in nature have less animal products and their bodies pay a price. often they are known for cannibalism. there have been some studies done on hunter-gatherer groups and they are what u would call lazy. agroculture has come with multitude modern diseases, contamination due to sedentary lifestyle and dense populations
    there are less suicides if at all in hunter gatherer societies, and there have been suicides due to being forced into a civilized lifestyle.
    u could argue those are different kinds of civilizations
    if u want to return to the jungle completely on ur own, which is different than hunter gatherer societies, u will return to monke and say goodbye to ur neo cortex because that life style cant support ur body and mind. there is nothing glorious or superior about that. this is regression and degradation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DogofDanger
    Every instinct you have exists to hone you toward successful survival and reproduction.
    Every instinct you have (if indeed there is a such thing as an instinct) exists merely because it proved to be compatible with your and your ancestors' survival. To say that instincts often facilitate survival and reproduction is correct (granting, for the sake of discussion, that instincts actually exist). It isn't correct to say that instincts exist for the purpose of facilitating survival and reproduction any more than it would be correct to say that the Mississippi river exists for the purpose of providing the Gulf of Mexico with water. What a thing does is not necessarily the same as its purpose. And a thing's purpose is just whatever someone decides it is. You say that instincts serve the purpose of survival and reproduction. I might equally well say that instincts serve the purpose of ensuring that coffee is brewed and served in the morning. It's entirely subjective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VewyScawwyNawcissist View Post
    a lot of animals dont survive like that. even if a wolf survives onstracized on his own he doesnt reproduce. bears are more solitary, but they can lose to wolves, and humans win wars and drive animals extinct because they mass reproduce and work their miserable lives to suffer so they can make more children they want to make miserable and more weapons. im sick of ppl trying to make themselves out ot be somehow special and better than others because they are assholes.
    Not about the point I was making. You are saying that humans survive in a collective of some sort, instead of individually, much like animals, but I was speaking in terms of survival with Civilization around. Let's say ten people are living in a wilderness, living off what the land currently provides in that season, without trade (and therefore a move towards civilization) with other tribes . I'm talking about removing everything humanity has built over the past 10,000 years. This was the point I was making. Many people have no idea what is a natural act in this context, because they have never actually had to expend any effort in that direction. Have you hunted or gathered for you calories, across many years and seasons? No. Therefore, you are a Civilization centrist, buffered by the efforts and ingenuity of all the other people around you. This pseudo-nature, running in parallel with the natural world, looks analogous with nature, but its not.

    there are more females born when there is scarcity. there are more gay people in societies with larger population. i dont know the mechanism of this, but i hate those kind of assumptions that its somehow unnatural. u dont know how this happens. implicitly nothing is unnatural anyway, but people use that term as if to mean "good" or "necessary" and create self contradictory theories that dont factor in everything just to fir their bias and act like thats definietly truth, the only truth and the whole truth.
    I can't really argue with this.

    so does human intellect, and so is necessary for the development of a higher intellect. lets turn everything good into garbage so only cockroaches and parasites survive.
    agroculture and civilization came after hunter-gathering, maybe due to scarcity. farmers in nature have less animal products and their bodies pay a price. often they are known for cannibalism. there have been some studies done on hunter-gatherer groups and they are what u would call lazy. agroculture has come with multitude modern diseases, contamination due to sedentary lifestyle and dense populations
    Yes. Lots can be improved. But to say the future is only for cockroaches is a paradigm that exists because of the nuclear option, not anything else. Even with all our disgusting pollution, we will not collapse the entire planetary system and leave Earth on a runaway train towards the same atmosphere as venus. These are memetic devices meant to shape and socially engineer human behaviour. Earth and life will go on, no matter what occurs. Its done it several times before. By the time the next Ice Age hits, (if there is one, maybe we put forth a unconscious, purposeful effort to avoid another one, having lived, as a species, through several others), all of the life we screwed up will have adapted.

    there are less suicides if at all in hunter gatherer societies, and there have been suicides due to being forced into a civilized lifestyle.
    u could argue those are different kinds of civilizations
    Yes. Stands to reason. A bored human being, or a human being inheriting problems from ancestors, can become neurotic, wishing for a end to the problems, and the ego complex feeling so trapped, it ends the life of the organism. Terrible and tragic. I dont suggest eating magic mushrooms if your mind is inclined to this sort of pondering. The weight of it all might be to much to bare.

    if u want to return to the jungle completely on ur own, which is different than hunter gatherer societies, u will return to monke and say goodbye to ur neo cortex because that life style cant support ur body and mind. there is nothing glorious or superior about that. this is regression and degradation.
    I think the hippies tried this. However, you do realize who you are talking to, right? I lived off grid for a large portion of my 20s. I don't need to be lectured on the virtues of returning to the land. I did it already and its hard and it kind of sucks. But news flash, our brains evolved PRIOR civilization. What do you make of that?

    Again, you have a habit of blowing past my point. I'm not arguing for a return to nature lifestyle. I'm simply saying having an opinion about social constructs vs natural instinct- imperatives, is lopsided and incomplete, given the extent of the personal lack of experience of the one's holding the opinion. I extend this critique to University types, or whoever lacks the ability to remain objective given their comfort within the Matrix itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    I'm sure there are bad people in all religions. Christianity is an advanced religion and not everyone is spiritually mature to be a priest. Maybe some do it for narcissistic reasons. People are people. If you are a Christian priest or an Indian guru or some man of authority then some people can't handle that status and will.

    Yes.

    Still, certain religions have central precepts that in order to practise being the "most holy", some kind of repression is required. I think Christianity also has historical left overs from the Medieval era in regards to attitudes about sex and desire. I mean, people were covering piano legs with pants up until fairly recently, like a just over a several generations ago. This is the slow moving dinosaur being dealt with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chriscorey View Post
    I just don't think correlation implies causation. I think they're already predators. They go where they'll be trusted.

    https://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/...e-for-children
    Sure, some of them might have been predators prior to their ordainment. But its a bit silly to say all of them are, throughout all of history, time and place.

    I've kind of already said my point about it. I don't really want to elaborate because I'm not into making excuses for these scumbags. I think the original intention of the thread was to discuss "why" this is occurring. I suggested something that I think has a large grain of truth in it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nunki View Post
    Every instinct you have (if indeed there is a such thing as an instinct) exists merely because it proved to be compatible with your and your ancestors' survival. To say that instincts often facilitate survival and reproduction is correct (granting, for the sake of discussion, that instincts actually exist). It isn't correct to say that instincts exist for the purpose of facilitating survival and reproduction any more than it would be correct to say that the Mississippi river exists for the purpose of providing the Gulf of Mexico with water. What a thing does is not necessarily the same as its purpose. And a thing's purpose is just whatever someone decides it is. You say that instincts serve the purpose of survival and reproduction. I might equally well say that instincts serve the purpose of ensuring that coffee is brewed and served in the morning. It's entirely subjective.
    I see purpose everywhere. I'm sad you seem to minimize its existence and importance. I hope you can live your lifestream with this lack of understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    I think the hippies tried this. However, you do realize who you are talking to, right? I lived off grid for a large portion of my 20s. I don't need to be lectured on the virtues of returning to the land. I did it already and its hard and it kind of sucks. But news flash, our brains evolved PRIOR civilization. What do you make of that?
    not sure what do u mean that i need to make of it. a human in a hunter gatherer society is a sort of civilization. a human in that kind of society is not the same as a chimp in a chimp society. a huma nraised in a chimp society from the start even if it possibly survived wouldnt be as intelligent as he would be raised in a human society. language is a sort of civilization. why did human brains evolve? my theory is tool use, hunting and walking up right. other animals use their teeth to kill and eat which causes pressure on their skull and shrinks it. monkeys are a bit different because they use their hands more. but humans learned to use fire sharp stones and other ways to process meat. walking upright will have also removed tension from the head and jaws thats associated with the head now being supported by the body vertically against gravity instead of hovering. elephants use their nose for exerting force, not their jaws.
    Therefore, you are a Civilization centrist, buffered by the efforts and ingenuity of all the other people around you.
    this is what language is and what a large portion of ur brain was created by. ingenuity of the people around us, and taking care of each other. someone decided to hunt animals unlike other monkeys, to walk upright, to use fire and tools, and this is why we are here. it is a sort of civilization.
    Have you hunted or gathered for you calories, across many years and seasons?
    and perhaps people learned this slowly, knowledge of whats what and people dying trying the wrong shrooms perhaps. they didnt get thrown into chaos out of nothing without any kind of support. humans have a much longer developmental period than most animals, autistic people even more and they have larger brains on average and thats genetically associated with intelligence. that said the environment those ppl also lived in was not the same as now. i dont know if ur personal experience with hunting and gathering would reflect what people before the scarcity experienced. i can have theories but not certain conclusions
    Your face makes your brain and sociotype how muscle use shapes personality
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    Quote Originally Posted by VewyScawwyNawcissist View Post
    not sure what do u mean that i need to make of it. a human in a hunter gatherer society is a sort of civilization. a human in that kind of society is not the same as a chimp in a chimp society. a huma nraised in a chimp society from the start even if it possibly survived wouldnt be as intelligent as he would be raised in a human society. language is a sort of civilization. why did human brains evolve? my theory is tool use, hunting and walking up right. other animals use their teeth to kill and eat which causes pressure on their skull and shrinks it. monkeys are a bit different because they use their hands more. but humans learned to use fire sharp stones and other ways to process meat. walking upright will have also removed tension from the head and jaws thats associated with the head now being supported by the body vertically against gravity instead of hovering. elephants use their nose for exerting force, not their jaws.
    Our brains evolved this size before hunter gathering societies, that we know of. Crazy. If the size of our brians was what allowed us to use tools, or was it tools that made our brains big? It was the size that came first, before the tools. If brain size was what matter, why are not blue whales the most intelligent creatures on Earth? If eating meat and fat was what made us intelligent, why are Earth's predators not the most intelligent?

    this is what language is and what a large portion of ur brain was created by. ingenuity of the people around us, and taking care of each other. someone decided to hunt animals unlike other monkeys, to walk upright, to use fire and tools, and this is why we are here. it is a sort of civilization.
    I think a definition of Civilization is needed before its used to loosely.

    and perhaps people learned this slowly, knowledge of whats what and people dying trying the wrong shrooms perhaps. they didnt get thrown into chaos out of nothing without any kind of support. humans have a much longer developmental period than most animals, autistic people even more and they have larger brains on average and thats genetically associated with intelligence. that said the environment those ppl also lived in was not the same as now. i dont know if ur personal experience with hunting and gathering would reflect what people before the scarcity experienced. i can have theories but not certain conclusions
    I'm only speaking in context of this thread. Lots of nature vs nurture arguments. Which is what I was addressing. I'm just sick of so many opinions that lack that real world application. I'm a hard natural imperative type, btw. I think a lot of everything we do daily is because of our natural inclinations from our animal selves. Even if those expressions look warped, due to Civilization. For example, I think that harming children is the warped instinct to have sex. Their authority allows it to happen. In another time and setting, these people would be killed, or chased out, by the family unit. Some of them are killed when they are finally convicted to prison.

    Finally, we did not evolve from apes, we ARE apes, still, today. All of dualism is false. But I prefer Mckenna's poetical thoughts on the matter "we are angels [or devils], trapped inside the monkey."

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    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    Our brains evolved this size before hunter gathering societies, that we know of. Crazy. If the size of our brians was what allowed us to use tools, or was it tools that made our brains big? It was the size that came first, before the tools. If brain size was what matter, why are not blue whales the most intelligent creatures on Earth? If eating meat and fat was what made us intelligent, why are Earth's predators not the most intelligent?
    i told u predators use their jaws which collapses their skull on their brain. its a mechanical issue. most animals walk horizontally which also causes pressure on the head to collapse. monkeys and humans are more vertical and smarter. elephants monkeys and humans use their limbs to kill and process food unlike other animals who mostly use their jaws whcih collapses their brains. elephants have larger brains than the most intellinget monkeys but are not much more intelligent, why is that, its because they are vertical. both humans monkeys elephants and blue whales have much larger brains compared to other animals. u are trying to make me create a theory that explains everything for u but just because i dont have all the answers to all the specifics personally it doesnt mean they dont exist. i suspect sea animals have to deal with the pressure of always having to swim maybe inhibits some of the cognitive processing. meditaiton is one way to improve cognitive functioning although i will add clauses to that as well since there are ways it can be counter productive if u dont address them. blue whales also dont use tools or have complex limbs for their minds to interact with. they have brain parts responsible for sound processing and that may be a kind of way they are more intellingent than all of us but this alone does not translate into everything.

    and predators are on average more intelligent than their preys. as i said there are factors, and humans have a lot of factors coming together to make us who we are, that other animals dont.
    Finally, we did not evolve from apes, we ARE apes, still, today. All of dualism is false. But I prefer Mckenna's poetical thoughts on the matter "we are angels [or devils], trapped inside the monkey."
    depends on what u mean ur thinking is too rigid. we are apes in one sense but we are not the same as them, they dont live the same as us, they cant do what we can, and we cant reproduce with them the same we can with other humans.
    For example, I think that harming children is the warped instinct to have sex.
    this may be a lone truth in some sense but not in all the sense. i suspect a lot of that has to do with cognitive deficits in areas of empathy that can make those ppl shunned by others regardless. ppl with ASPD can overreact to criticism or threats hence their inclination to aggression which is related to depression and shrinkage of those brain parts. i suspect some of those pedos may have been criticized and rejected by women, in potentially cruel ways, after having been repeatedly rejected by others, kids treat them well and cant defend themselves (harm them). there is an inclination to innocence and safety, and in general, whatever u repress, u tend to externalize on others. a pedo has to repress his own innocence, because when he expresses it he gets harmed, now he seeks someone innocent who wont harm him who matches him, and a sexual connection is about matching someone. he is also socially inept and just like a kid who sticks its arms in places in places they dont belong, touches everything and plays with his own body and objects, who struggles to differentiate right from wrong and learns by direct experience.
    i dont see how civilization specifically would be the cause of that tho. perhaps the scarcity that led to forcing civlization would be a "cause". being a hard natural imperative doesnt mean anything on its own. it could be taken to mean that pedophilia is natural or that u mean its caused unnaturally. there is no nature vs nurture its just both and ppl take them out of context because something's wrong with their perception
    Your face makes your brain and sociotype how muscle use shapes personality
    I want to care
    if I was better Id help you
    if I was better youd be better
    HELLO??? COME BACK!!!!
    i'm afraid it will hurt like hell, i am afraid of screaming and i am afraid of crying, i am afraid of forgetting but i'm not afraid of dying.



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    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    Our brains evolved this size before hunter gathering societies, that we know of. Crazy. If the size of our brians was what allowed us to use tools, or was it tools that made our brains big? It was the size that came first, before the tools.
    and no they literally did not.
    they also came to a certain size, then tools came, then more size came and other things came etc
    literal wolves are hunter gatherers so are and were humans
    Your face makes your brain and sociotype how muscle use shapes personality
    I want to care
    if I was better Id help you
    if I was better youd be better
    HELLO??? COME BACK!!!!
    i'm afraid it will hurt like hell, i am afraid of screaming and i am afraid of crying, i am afraid of forgetting but i'm not afraid of dying.



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    Quote Originally Posted by VewyScawwyNawcissist View Post
    and no they literally did not.
    they also came to a certain size, then tools came, then more size came and other things came etc
    literal wolves are hunter gatherers so are and were humans
    Yeah try again narc. Bit more study into anthropology.

    In a related note, neanderthal had larger brains and less tool use and art.

    Humans arrived about 300,000 years ago. Mostly anatomically identical to us today. Tool use followed.

    Wolves do not gather plant food, hence they are not hunter gatherers. Omnivores hunters, maybe.

    Concepts matter. Details are important.

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    @VewyScawwyNawcissist
    What do you think of wisdom teeth ? Are they good or bad?

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    @VewyScawwyNawcissist got username wrong first time so don’t know if it tagged you

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    Quote Originally Posted by Burnin up View Post
    @VewyScawwyNawcissist
    What do you think of wisdom teeth ? Are they good or bad?
    i am not sure
    current lifestyle and body language cases them to not grow properly, but i somewhat doubt this is condusive to intelligence.
    receding chin is relted to schizo personality disroders as well as some personality types more than others. with the schizo stuff its about holding back, projecting possibilties of danger and thinking things through. people like that can develop larger frontal lobes earlier in their lives but this may be at the cost of something else, and this makes your body imbalanced and not functioning properly.
    https://www.mediazionefamiliaremilan...chizoide.shtml
    https://www.mediazionefamiliaremilan...i_mostri.shtml
    use translateor
    Your face makes your brain and sociotype how muscle use shapes personality
    I want to care
    if I was better Id help you
    if I was better youd be better
    HELLO??? COME BACK!!!!
    i'm afraid it will hurt like hell, i am afraid of screaming and i am afraid of crying, i am afraid of forgetting but i'm not afraid of dying.



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    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    Yeah try again narc. Bit more study into anthropology.

    In a related note, neanderthal had larger brains and less tool use and art.

    Humans arrived about 300,000 years ago. Mostly anatomically identical to us today. Tool use followed.

    Wolves do not gather plant food, hence they are not hunter gatherers. Omnivores hunters, maybe.

    Concepts matter. Details are important.
    monkeys use tools and used them since before that. octopusses use tools. and wolves do eat some plants little as it is, even if they dont gather them. dont see how it makes a difference to my argument.
    Your face makes your brain and sociotype how muscle use shapes personality
    I want to care
    if I was better Id help you
    if I was better youd be better
    HELLO??? COME BACK!!!!
    i'm afraid it will hurt like hell, i am afraid of screaming and i am afraid of crying, i am afraid of forgetting but i'm not afraid of dying.



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    Your face makes your brain and sociotype how muscle use shapes personality
    I want to care
    if I was better Id help you
    if I was better youd be better
    HELLO??? COME BACK!!!!
    i'm afraid it will hurt like hell, i am afraid of screaming and i am afraid of crying, i am afraid of forgetting but i'm not afraid of dying.



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    Quote Originally Posted by DogOfDanger View Post
    I'll say that is not a well crafted law, but then again you're the one bringing all this up to try & win an argument I never started or cared about, I've never pledged to want to uphold the Jews customs & traditions. I've never claimed that what you've posted is something divine... the way it reads sounds oddly as if the writer believes justice is being served, this really emphasizes how women were literally treated as potted plants or bags of wheat back then.
    I've discussed this before, but I don't even read the bible the way you're presuming I should, you act as if the bible has to be treated as some perfectly accurate, divine account of all things, but you're literally just reading the Jews history of their civilization and laws. The bible is 66 books written by almost all different authors across thousands of years, in different places, in different languages, for different purposes - it's not even a coherent set of messages. I don't expect it to be what you're presuming it is... To me that is just a passage that some ancient man wrote within the context of a partially functional ancient society that operated very different from ours, making a compromise recording their customs and laws that seemed to resolve problems for them, given the way their society worked back then - and that is all, woohoo - you seem to think it should be this divine document perfect in all ways, like there is something magical about it, and that if you can prove it isn't you've somehow proven something about Gods existence.
    Keep trying
    I'm not defending the Bible. I certainly don't think it's divine or true.

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    I'm bisexual and I support this comment. I think I'm well advised to at least consider that my sexuality is unnatural in the context of this discussion. Even IF it occurs in hundreds of other documented mammals and birds.
    Why are you giving this jerk ammunition? Because you're still butthurt certain men don't fuck you? Your sexuality isn't unnatural - if it occurs in hundreds of other mammals and birds that's the very opposite of unnatural. You just contradicted your own argument, Milo Yiannopolus. ((You could argue that we shouldn't get our moral standards from other animals - but it's still quite natural))

    You think too much of what asshole str8 male blue collar ppl think of u. I don't really have that problem. These people need to be stood up to & challenged, their prejudices don't need to be coddled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VewyScawwyNawcissist View Post
    Interesting you are not able to keep track of the point we were talking about. Your pictures says evidence of hunting gathering for millions of years, yet we were talking about anatomical human beings from 200-300 thousand years ago. The point was we were human prior the tool making. Not certain about language.

    What is natural, what is inherited?

    I'm stating the ability to reason the differences between the two relies on the capacity of the reasoner. Of which I doubt a centrist type can do, given the deluge of current modern belief systems about why we do what we do as people.

    Hunting gathering is sort of a side quest you are focusing on, when to me, from the start, it was merely a stopping point to elucidate on why I do not think these belief systems are not properly founded on real world experience.

    I'm pretty much done with this line of discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazaam View Post
    Why are you giving this jerk ammunition? Because you're still butthurt certain men don't fuck you? Your sexuality isn't unnatural - if it occurs in hundreds of other mammals and birds that's the very opposite of unnatural. You just contradicted your own argument, Milo Yiannopolus. ((You could argue that we shouldn't get our moral standards from other animals - but it's still quite natural))

    You think too much of what asshole str8 male blue collar ppl think of u. I don't really have that problem. These people need to be stood up to & challenged, their prejudices don't need to be coddled.
    Wow. I'll take out to lunch, for 300.

    I'm a little surprised you are focusing on the social justice here, given your derision towards it over the years, but knowing the subject and it's personal meaning , I'll try and understand.

    I think perfectly acceptable for a person to deeply think about and consider why they are the way they are, even if the conclusions, or points of inquiry along the way are difficult.

    I'd say how about not thinking, or assuming for me, and the process I've gone through, cool?

    Imagination is a funny thing.

    Again, I'm interesting underlying processes, and just because I'm speaking about this, does not mean I currently hold such beliefs as a kind of banner.

    And when does it stop, bnd? Should pedophiles be allowed to express their sexuality? I mean looking at other animals, I'm sure there are examples of them doing it.

    This is where I totally tap out. I do not see homosexuality and pendantry as morally equal. I see one as destructive for all involved. It tears at the fabric of humanity and leaves damage for years and generations. The other does not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    I'm bisexual and I support this comment. I think I'm well advised to at least consider that my sexuality is unnatural in the context of this discussion. Even IF it occurs in hundreds of other documented mammals and birds.

    I think there was that interesting mouse study that did the rounds a couple years ago. The one where they made a mouse utopia, where eventually generations later there was a social stratified mouse society, and homosexuality was common. What was that all about? Does civilization warp the natural order and in what ways?

    I thought this was common sense stuff. Obviously, going by this thread, it's not.

    You get a lot of social imperative types, on this website "yeah man but that's like, a social construct".

    I think hard social imperative types are deluded themselves towards their animal nature. I also think they are civilization central types. In other words, they have never been in nature, physically. They have never had to survive off their own efforts, or wit, far removed from the trappings of modernity.

    So easy to critique what you think is natural vs unnatural when you've never had to literally survive off your own, complete efforts, or else you will die.

    Civilization makes survival possible, comfortable, lower effort, convenient, safe and secure, luxurious, beautiful.

    But don't mistake, you are an animal and a lot of what you do throughout your life is because of that.
    I used to think surviving on a desert island would be fun and give me bragging rights. Then I decided I had better things to do with my time than try to forage for plants and kill random animals while sleeping in a tent or a trench. We have mathematics, science, art, and all the rest of culture. Culture comes from the same root as cultivate like agriculture, and the same root as cult like religion. Culture, religion, and "civilization" seem the same to me. I wouldn't voluntarily give that up. I wouldn't want to live in a mud hut.



    Yes, humans are animals. Aristotle called humans rational animals. Animal comes from the same root as animate and animosity and means something that can move and take actions that way. It doesn't mean humans are beasts or monkeys (no offense to beasts and monkeys.) Humans are probably made from other animals like evolution says, but that doesn't mean there wasn't a category shift in the process. Most people misunderstand evolution anyways. Very little of it happens due to competition and "selection pressures," and most happens due to a change in environment (how most or, on some level, all species are defined.)
    Last edited by Coeruleum Blue; 09-27-2022 at 02:08 AM.
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    You are speaking past me, missed what I was saying, and even though your points are valid as stand alones, it's tangential to what I'm saying and ultimately wasting my time here.

    You are also overly intellectuallizing the concept of being an animal. You seem to not even be aware of the nature of this problem, or that you are somehow removed from animalness altogether. I blame Civilization, tbh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    This is where I totally tap out. I do not see homosexuality and pendantry as morally equal. I see one as destructive for all involved. It tears at the fabric of humanity and leaves damage for years and generations. The other does not.
    I think you meant to say pederasty, though pedantry can be pretty destructive too.
    For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.
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    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    You are speaking past me, missed what I was saying, and even though your points are valid as stand alones, it's tangential to what I'm saying and ultimately wasting my time here.

    You are also overly intellectuallizing the concept of being an animal. You seem to not even be aware of the nature of this problem, or that you are somehow removed from animalness altogether. I blame Civilization, tbh.
    Civilization is the proper environment of a rational animal. Living alone in the jungle and becoming feral is not.
    For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.
     Richard Feynman, Rogers Commission Report, on the Challenger disaster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coeruleum Blue View Post
    Civilization is the proper environment of a rational animal. Living alone in the jungle and becoming feral is not.
    Great, still a tangent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coeruleum Blue View Post
    I think you meant to say pederasty, though pedantry can be pretty destructive too.
    It auto corrected.

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    There's alot of confused jibberish floating around in this thread.
    To just arbitrarily divorce purpose from inherent function is to completely ignore reality. Reality is not just merely what you decide it is.
    As far as biology is concerned, survival is an organisms fundamental purpose, this is what it is designed for, this is what it does. In the same way that your livers purpose is to filter your blood, the most fundamental purpose of an organism is survival and reproduction. Evolution gives meaning to the organisms behavior through selecting for survival / reproduction. You could maybe argue the organism has some need for promoting good on a metaphysical or spiritual level if you wanted to get really deep into it. The Mississippi River is not an organism, it is a river, it does not struggle for survival, there are no forces of natural selection acting on it... if there are some analogous forces they are very abstract and not very relevant. The analogy is bad.

    Firstly I'd like to point out there is a self-identified bisexual person here who took no offense whatsoever to my comments and even agrees with a good bit of what I've said. When I've talked about this topic on the past I've had many self-identified LGBT people who have reacted the same way.

    Note that I've never said homosexuality is "unnatural", I've said that it isn't caused by an evolved natural instinct. I've then explained in great detail how many behaviors are not caused primarily by instinct. Depending on the conditions, instinct can be blocked, and when that happens it expresses in ways that are distorted. Instinct can't be turned off, when it's blocked it behaves kind of like water being forced through a firehose. For example, you might be the monkey at the very bottom of a very top-heavy social hierarchy, where the one alpha male is getting all 10 of the female monkeys, and you have no chance whatsoever at reproducing... this can occur for a variety of reasons. It can happen due to habitat destruction - your monkey tribe is confined to very small pieces of land, and you can't go claim your own territory where you're the alpha monkey. Yes this occurs in nature, but the primary cause is not instinct, this is being driven by circumstances... I am not saying homosexuality does not occur in nature, it occurs in nature. What homosexuality definitely does not do is increase the probability of successful survival and reproduction. We know that because that is impossible... And due to that, it could not possibly drive the evolution of animal instinct. That is all I have said.

    I am also not saying that we should scorn homosexuals. Actually I am providing homosexuality with a very realistic explanation for its occurrence, which is something that has been lacking for very a long time. Instead people usually have resorted to hurling emotional abuse while insisting that very weak genetic evidence is what is 100% accountable for the condition... despite the fact pretty much no other psychological condition works that way, twins aren't both effected, and a number of other things. You could see my comments on evolution as an actual solid grounding that justifies your sexuality if you wanted to. These are just facts, you actually are the one deciding to interpret them in the way that you see fit.
    Last edited by DogOfDanger; 11-14-2022 at 05:32 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coeruleum Blue View Post
    Civilization is the proper environment of a rational animal. Living alone in the jungle and becoming feral is not.
    I was watching an interview with this man who has one of the highest known IQs in the world. He's a comedy writer. One of his consistent themes is something he says he finds very amusing - it is the way that geniuses strive to advance technology, and the often unanticipated ways that technology subsequently backfires on human kind. Basically human beings get so caught up in their rationality, and delusions of their grandeur, that they shut out / forget that they are digging their own graves (and everyone elses).
    Humans are at their most harmonious, and living at their fullest, when they are in their natural habitat, where they are able to fully express all parts of themselves, including the physical and animal parts as well as the rational parts. The brain evolved in nature and its circuits are specifically attuned to take in and respond to the natural environment.. The rational and animal parts need to be in alignment, otherwise you are just gone off the rails. There's not alot we can do to get out of civilization, but let's not delude ourselves that we've done anything other than opened pandoras box, and that nature is much wiser than we can ever hope to be. We have nothing but problems, many of which look to be fatal ones, due to the mess we've created...
    Last edited by DogOfDanger; 09-27-2022 at 03:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renna View Post
    Yes I agree with you about the fact, the liver does what it does for now. But it's "purpose" never in a strict state, through evolution it may get more or less abilities/role, or become nearly irrelevant but still exist like some other part.
    It would no longer be the same object at this point.

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