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Thread: Sex Abuse Scandal in the Catholic Church

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    Quote Originally Posted by DogOfDanger View Post
    What we are doing here is describing natural instinct - what it is, how it behaves, and we do this by looking at how it evolved... this is not a matter of belief, it actually just brushes up against your beliefs .. instead of looking deeper for a reconciliation, you spaz about it and deny reality... you do this because you are stupid.
    No, you have just been dead set on saying something is unnatural if it doesn't have a positive survival or reproductive value from an evolutionary perspective.

    Nature is what is, warts and all, even the parts you don't like: that's reality.

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    @DogOfDanger @lavos

    according to you, altruistic acts done for the benefit of strangers with no prospect of reward aside from personal pleasure are "unnatural", " the product of evil", "stupid", and have no purpose from an evolutionary perspective.

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    Dog of Projection & Gaslighting

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    I should clarify that I don't condone Genghis Khan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    No, you have just been dead set on saying something is unnatural if it doesn't have a positive survival or reproductive value from an evolutionary perspective.

    Nature is what is, warts and all, even the parts you don't like: that's reality.
    What I've said repeatedly is that certain acts aren't primarily explained as being driven by natural instinct, instinct is something that evolved. Every instinct you have exists to hone you toward successful survival and reproduction. In nature instinct can get blocked and express in deferred ways. When that happens, the explanation for the behavior is the circumstances - the blockage of instinct. There are other reason people do things... everything you do is not in line with your natural instincts, or a full, harmonious expression of them.

    And as I've explained twice, Kahns behavior did not occur in natural circumstances, where he would have been beaten over the head by people with boulders if he had gone and raped all the women in the tribe. Behavior that occurs within a social context is not the correct way to model or think about what is or isn't natural, evolved instinct. To think about our instincts, and to understand them, you should think about a tribe of cavemen living in the wilderness in mesopotamia. Those are the kinds of conditions inwhich we evolved. You also have to think in an idealistic way, because you're thinking on scales of billions of years ultimately. Do you understand? I've mentioned to you the fact that alpha male monkeys get ambushed and torn to pieces when their social approval drops below a certain point. If you spent two seconds trying to think critically about what we're talking about, instead of instantly looking for some hole to poke in FACTS about evolution to justify your life and sexuality, you would have thought of these things. But you don't stop for two seconds to look deeper into criticizing your own comments. Instead you expect me to come up with a full, giant rational to address your stupid comments because you made zero effort in thinking them through, because you are only interested in reconfirming to yourself your dogmatic ideological fixations. And you do this because, again, you are a moron.

    And I'm tired of comments about human biology triggering tantrums from borderline, bipolar deluded nuts holding me accountable for their fucking sexual acts when all I try to do is avoid or smooth over their offended egos, where every fucking word I utter or idea I promote has to conform to somehow stoke these peoples fucking deluded ego about how they justify their sex lives. This has gone too far to the point we now pretend - PRETEND - that changing your fucking sex is an inherent biological need, and force us all to DENY INDISPUTABLE FACTS about biology. Fuck-off.
    Last edited by DogOfDanger; 09-25-2022 at 04:54 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazaam View Post
    Dog of Projection & Gaslighting
    Go throw more tantrums about the fact you're gay you overgrown toddler.

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    You better believe in conspiracies, Scrooge. Coeruleum Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DogOfDanger View Post
    Evolution does give nature a purpose. For example, your penis has a purpose - it is to get sperm into a vagina. Evolution gives nature a purpose, correct.

    Ok, I'm tired and you aren't saying anything interesting. Goodbye!
    Yes, but unless you're a dick that's not your life's purpose.



    For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.
    — Richard Feynman, Rogers Commission Report, on the Challenger disaster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DogOfDanger View Post
    What I've said repeatedly is that certain acts aren't primarily explained as being driven by natural instinct, because instinct is something that evolved. Every instinct you have exists to hone you toward successful survival and reproduction. Instinct can get blocked and express in deferred ways. When that happens, the explanation for the behavior is the circumstances - the blockage of instinct. There are other reason people do things... everything you do is not in line with your natural instincts, or a full, harmonious expression of them.

    And as I've explained twice, Kahns behavior did not occur in natural circumstances, where he would have been beaten over the head by people with boulders if he had gone and raped all the women in the tribe. Behavior that occurs within a social context is not the correct way to model or think about what is or isn't natural, evolved instinct. To think about our instincts, and to understand them, you should think about a tribe of cavemen living in the wilderness in mesopotamia. Those are the kinds of conditions inwhich we evolved. Do you understand? If you spent two seconds trying to think critically about what we're talking about, instead of instantly looking for some hole to poke in FACTS about evolution to justify your life and sexuality, you would have thought of these things. But you don't stop for two seconds to look deeper into criticizing your own comments.

    And I'm tired of making a comment about nature triggering tantrums from borderline, bipolar deluded nuts holding me accountable for their fucking sexual acts when all I try to do is avoid or smooth over their offended egos, where every fucking word I utter or idea I promote has to conform to somehow stoke these peoples fucking deluded ego about how they justify sexuality. This has gone too far to the point we now pretend - PRETEND - that changing your fucking sex is an inherent biological need, and force us all to DENY INDISPUTABLE FACTS about biology. Fuck-off.
    To what extent did you choose to be this way, and to what extent was it natural instinct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    To what extent did you choose to be this way, and to what extent was it natural instinct?
    Go ahead and spend another 10 years online pissing / shitting and sitting at your computer chair, and we'll see who's laughing.

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    Instinct by nature is natural (it's an oxymoron to speak of an "unnatural instinct"). The real question is how you qualify what constitutes an instinct.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instinct

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    Quote Originally Posted by DogOfDanger View Post
    Go ahead and spend another 10 years online pissing / shitting at your computer chair and we'll see who's laughing.
    Which computer chair are you speaking of?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coeruleum Blue View Post
    Yes, but unless you're a dick that's not your life's purpose.
    You actually are a dick, technically. In part...
    So it is partly your life purpose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    Instinct by nature is natural (it's an oxymoron to speak of an "unnatural instinct"). The real question is how you qualify what constitutes an instinct.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instinct
    D E M O N I C I N S T I N C T S!



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    — Richard Feynman, Rogers Commission Report, on the Challenger disaster.

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    Oh yes, the dick is demonic. So demonic that it was created by God. Idiot....

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    Quote Originally Posted by DogOfDanger View Post
    This has gone too far to the point we now pretend - PRETEND - that changing your fucking sex is an inherent biological need, and force us all to DENY INDISPUTABLE FACTS about biology. Fuck-off.
    Quote Originally Posted by DogOfDanger View Post
    You actually are a dick, technically. In part...
    So it is partly your life purpose.
    Who is forcing you to "DENY INDISPUTABLE FACTS about biology"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DogOfDanger View Post
    Oh yes, the dick is demonic. So demonic that it was created by God. Idiot....
    Who created the idiots, and what does that say about them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    Who is forcing you to "DENY INDISPUTABLE FACTS about biology"?
    How could you be so stupid as to argue that child rape is not anti-evolutionary? It doesn't produce offspring, it makes the entire tribe want to kill the person... why would it be evolutionary, idiot?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    @DogOfDanger @lavos

    according to you, altruistic acts done for the benefit of strangers with no prospect of reward aside from personal pleasure are "unnatural", " the product of evil", "stupid", and have no purpose from an evolutionary perspective.
    Huh?

    Altruistic acts stem from the, again, human nature. The same it can cause evil, it can cause good. I won't argue that altruistic acts somehow benefit the herd or tribe like they do in the primitive or animal worlds (although it is plausible). Simply, humans can do good out of the blue, or they can do evil out of the blue (according to their nature). Although I have the belief that the human entity is good inherently, and evil has to be caused somehow.

    You claim everything is instinct like as if we were animals, and now you're talking about altruistic acts?

    Also, please don't group me with anyone as if my argument was the same as theirs, as all I've done is agree with most of the points they raised in the particular post I liked. However, I don't agree with anything you in particular have said thus far. What do you intend to transmit/what is your point?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DogOfDanger View Post
    How could you be so stupid as to argue that child rape is not anti-evolutionary? It doesn't produce offspring, it makes the entire tribe want to kill the person... why would it be evolutionary, idiot?
    I didn't argue that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DogOfDanger View Post
    Go throw more tantrums about the fact you're gay you overgrown toddler.
    Honey, I love and accept myself just fine. I think it's giving *you* the tantrum. I was trying to talk about Coeruleum's topic and u went ranting about the perceived natural purpose of my sperm.

    You are projecting your heterosexuality and Right-wing morals into the truth but like we keep telling you: the truth is the truth regardless. And no, I'm not doing the same thing with my gayness. I already have accepted the fact there are people that are very different from me, u haven't done that yet and are still butthurt I'm not being str8 enough for your liking. And I'm not really your average ****** that can be easily destroyed or vaniquished; when a bully boy breeder str8 guy goes after me with ignorance and stupidity, I tend to fight back 5 times as hard. Behold my Chad Alpha Male ness. I'm a gay monkey, only this bitch is on top of the pecking order.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    @DogOfDanger @lavos

    according to you, altruistic acts done for the benefit of strangers with no prospect of reward aside from personal pleasure are "unnatural", " the product of evil", "stupid", and have no purpose from an evolutionary perspective.
    This excuse for a "philosophy" is called objectivism.



    For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DogOfDanger
    The Penis is evil! The Penis shoots Seeds, and makes new Life to poison the Earth with a plague of men, as once it was. But the Gun shoots Death and purifies the Earth of the filth of Brutals.
    DogOfDanger, I find your argument interesting, but it sounds like something from a cult science fiction movie, and isn't your reaction a bit overblown?

    ...Wow, arguing is really easy when I completely reject the reality of what my opponents say and substitute my own!



    For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.
    — Richard Feynman, Rogers Commission Report, on the Challenger disaster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lavos View Post
    Huh?

    Altruistic acts stem from the, again, human nature. The same it can cause evil, it can cause good. I won't argue that altruistic acts somehow benefit the herd or tribe like they do in the primitive or animal worlds (although it is plausible). Simply, humans can do good out of the blue, or they can do evil out of the blue (according to their nature). Although I have the belief that the human entity is good inherently, and evil has to be caused somehow.

    You claim everything is instinct like as if we were animals, and now you're talking about altruistic acts?
    I didn't say that everything is instinct. I only queried what was meant by an "unnatural" instinct.
    Quote Originally Posted by lavos View Post
    Also, please don't group me with anyone as if my argument was the same as theirs, as all I've done is agree with most of the points they raised in the particular post I liked. However, I don't agree with anything you in particular have said thus far. What do you intend to transmit/what is your point?
    My point was that by your interpretation, altruism with no benefit to the self except pleasure is as "unnatural" as child rape, something you consider evil because you consider it "unnatural" - something that animals don't do, in your view.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DogOfDanger View Post
    Lets be clear that it's only Catholicism that expects / enforces this, it isn't Christianity itself.
    I think this whole philosophy stems from a very serious misunderstanding of human instincts.

    Natural impulses fundamentally arise by virtue of you being a living breathing animal. You can't "overcome" a natural physical impulse altogether anymore than you can overcome being alive. The impulses can get derailed... but you have to distinguish between the impulse itself and the derailment of it.

    Overindulgence has a very direct relationship with deprivation. A good example of this is obesity - it is counterintuitive, but obese people are often malnourished due to the type of food they eat. I have a sister who's 350 pounds, she also has scurvy due to extreme vitamin C deficiency... obese people typically don't eat their vegetables, fruits, etc. - people aren't aware of it but there are all sorts of nutritients beyond simple vitamins / minerals that you get from eating fruits & vegetables. What's driving the hunger is actually the body demanding nourishment. The hunger is unsatiated, or only slightly satiated, due to the diet itself.

    Casual excess can cement itself into habit too... That's a derailment of the impulse, but you wouldn't try & repress the whole impulse because of that, you'd just reign it into a healthy state through exercising will. To recenter yourself in this way requires that you acknowledge the need, and alot of people won't acknowledge that... so this is another way people go astray.

    The way to be most resilient to temptation is not to try & completely repress the instincts. Besides being impossible, noone is more tempted by the smell of pepperoni pizza than a person who is starving. The best way to control the instincts is to fulfill them in a way that is whole and natural. For obesity this would not mean quitting eating, but eating alot more fruits and vegetables. For sex this means engaging with other real living, breathing humans.
    ...who consent and are not children, I think you forgot to say?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazaam View Post
    Honey, I love and accept myself just fine. I think it's giving *you* the tantrum. I was trying to talk about Coeruleum's topic and u went ranting about the perceived natural purpose of my sperm.

    You are projecting your heterosexuality and Right-wing morals into the truth but like we keep telling you: the truth is the truth regardless. And no, I'm not doing the same thing with my gayness. I already have accepted the fact there are people that are very different from me, u haven't done that yet and are still butthurt I'm not being str8 enough for your liking. And I'm not really your average ****** that can be easily destroyed or vaniquished; when a bully boy breeder str8 guy goes after me with ignorance and stupidity, I tend to fight back 5 times as hard. Behold my Chad Alpha Male ness. I'm a gay monkey, only this bitch is on top of the pecking order.
    I know this probably seems like a big blow and round of applause, but to me it just reads like a bunch of nothing, so... keep "fighting", I'll be waiting for you to say something that make sense and is relevant to what we were discussing. Yes, your sperm are designed to fertilize an egg, I know this is something that deeply offends you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    I didn't say that everything is instinct. I only queried what was meant by an "unnatural" instinct.


    My point was that by your interpretation, altruism with no benefit to the self except pleasure is as "unnatural" as child rape, something you consider evil because you consider it "unnatural" - something that animals don't do, in your view.
    I'm aware of the the contradiction, but it's just that I believe it is unnatural also to humans despite human capacity for evil. One thing is "normal" evil, another thing is this. I'll give you an analogy to see if you understand it: do you identify a rock as food? I bet you don't. An apple is food, but not a rock. However, could you be convinced with some ruse or hypnagogic technique that a rock is food? It might be possible, but it would be unnatural. A corruption of the natural order of things The same way, children are not meant to be sexualizable beings. That's how I see it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coeruleum Blue View Post
    DogOfDanger, I find your argument interesting, but it sounds like something from a cult science fiction movie, and isn't your reaction a bit overblown?

    ...Wow, arguing is really easy when I completely reject the reality of what my opponents say and substitute my own!
    Again, you are babbling in the abstract and really saying nothing here.
    Cult fiction.... ok, useless. Overblown.... that's subjective, and biased. The paraphrasing.... it's poorly representative and contains no relevant information.
    Try again

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    Quote Originally Posted by lavos View Post
    I'm aware of the the contradiction, but it's just that I believe it is unnatural also to humans despite human capacity for evil. One thing is "normal" evil, another thing is this. I'll give you an analogy to see if you understand it: do you identify a rock as food? I bet you don't. An apple is food, but not a rock. However, could you be convinced with some ruse or hypnagogic technique that a rock is food? It might be possible, but it would be unnatural. A corruption of the natural order of things The same way, children are not meant to be sexualizable beings. That's how I see it.
    That's confusing natural categories with cultural norms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DogOfDanger View Post
    I know this probably seems like a big blow and round of applause, but to me it just reads like a bunch of nothing, so... keep "fighting", I'll be waiting for you to say something that make sense and is relevant to what we were discussing. Yes, your sperm are designed to fertilize an egg, I know this is something that deeply offends you.
    So many spawning opportunities you've missed by posting in this thread. Nature must frown when it considers this from its teleological perspective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    So many spawning opportunities you've missed by posting in this thread. Nature must frown when it considers this from its teleological perspective.
    Actually, nature does frown on me being on here. That is actually the first true thing you've said tonight. Good job.
    See? You did learn something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DogOfDanger View Post
    Actually, nature does frown on me being on here. That is actually the first true thing you've said tonight. Good job.
    See? You did learn something.
    You still seem to engaging in the naturalistic fallacy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DogOfDanger View Post
    How could you be so stupid as to argue that child rape is not anti-evolutionary? It doesn't produce offspring, it makes the entire tribe want to kill the person... why would it be evolutionary, idiot?
    When/if a person rapes a kid or abuses them sexually in any way- that's the only thing people tend to remember of them. But in the Reals of Reality - they are actually doing much more inside their life than just that one (or multiple) heinous act(s). So it very well can produce offspring even though THAT doesn't produce offspring.

    This bitch need some Ne!

    You are being trolled by the Idea of Child Rape here, I think. I don't have much doubt that you are morally better than a child rapist- but then again, that is not saying much about your moral character either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    You still seem to engaging in the naturalistic fallacy.
    That's the fallacy that claims you need to leave your computer chair for reasons other than to piss, shit, or get food.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DogOfDanger View Post
    That's the fallacy that claims you need to leave your computer chair for reasons other than to piss, shit, or get food.
    Oh, you're doing that as well?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazaam View Post
    When/if a person rapes a kid or abuses them sexually in any way- that's the only thing people tend to remember of them. But in the Reals of Reality - they are actually doing much more inside their life than just that one (or multiple) heinous act(s). So it very well can produce offspring even though THAT doesn't produce offspring.
    Yes but you're not thinking abstractly and idealistically enough, because instinct, and predecessors of our human instincts, were honed over billions of years in natural, and relatively homeostatic conditions which all succeeded in producing life. Evolutionary forces even exerted themselves on cellular levels when the very first cells were forming... and those forces never stopped molding us until we came to be in this current form. Thus instinct has been finely tuned in a way that it is sensitive to even very small disadvantages in survival / reproduction. There is so much that went into fine tuning us biologically that it is beyond imagination.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DogOfDanger View Post
    Yes but you're not thinking abstractly and idealistically enough, because instinct, and predecessors of our human instincts, were honed over billions of years in natural, and relatively homeostatic conditions which all succeeded in producing life. Evolutionary forces even exerted themselves on cellular levels when the very first cells were forming... and those forces never stopped molding us until we came to be in this current form. Thus instinct has been finely tuned in a way that it is sensitive to even very small disadvantages in survival / reproduction. There is so much that went into fine tuning us biologically that it is beyond imagination.
    "Human" DNA includes virus DNA. Hardly fine-tuning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DogOfDanger View Post
    I know this probably seems like a big blow and round of applause, but to me it just reads like a bunch of nothing, so... keep "fighting", I'll be waiting for you to say something that make sense and is relevant to what we were discussing. Yes, your sperm are designed to fertilize an egg, I know this is something that deeply offends you.
    No Project-y Ramsey, I don't mind not being straight.

    Your ass is meant to be poked by dick because it has a prostate. I know it deeply offends you that you're not getting any gay male sex right now.

    Despite my campiness and flair, I've been dropping logical and rational truth bombs all over the place. I wish you weren't such a white str8 male bore and could read between the lines better rather than just focusing on the emotionalism of my posts. I guess I have to try to communicate like a straight robot to get my point across to you.

    bzzzzt You have a bad habit of using bzzzt selective reasoning and overly bzzzt simplistic thinking. You connect a to b but don't bzzzt see how bzzzt X, Y and Z (and all the other letters) can also lead small a to big B. bzzzt.

    This has been bzzzt Robo Shazaam 3000.

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    Except it isn't, so... the end.
    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    "Human" DNA includes virus DNA. Hardly fine-tuning.
    Hardly fine tuning? Have you ever opened a biology textbook and read about the incredible complexity and synchronization of all the chemical processes in your body?

    Evolution is like putting a rock into a polisher, and leaving it on for days... where it comes out completely smooth. Your arguments are like... pointing to a small little spec of sand that hasn't been polished. They're trivial points.
    The human body (or really any living creatures) is so well refined and perfected by evolution it is best thought of as a divine construction.
    Keep trying

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    Quote Originally Posted by DogOfDanger View Post
    Except it isn't, so... the end.

    Hardly fine tuning? Have you ever opened a biology textbook and read about the incredible complexity and synchronization of all the chemical processes in your body?

    Evolution is like putting a rock into a polisher, and leaving it on for days... where it comes out completely smooth. Your arguments are like... pointing to a small little spec of sand that hasn't been polished. They're trivial points.
    The human body (or really any living creatures) is so well refined and perfected by evolution it is best thought of as a divine construction.
    Keep trying
    It doesn't sound like you've read any scientific books about evolutionary biology.


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    Quote Originally Posted by DogOfDanger View Post
    Except it isn't, so... the end.

    Hardly fine tuning? Have you ever opened a biology textbook and read about the incredible complexity and synchronization of all the chemical processes in your body?

    Evolution is like putting a rock into a polisher, and leaving it on for days... where it comes out completely smooth. Your arguments are like... pointing to a small little spec of sand that hasn't been polished. They're trivial points.
    The human body (or really any living creatures) is so well refined and perfected by evolution it is best thought of as a divine construction.
    Keep trying
    Virus DNA and bacteria DNA is actually how animals like humans form. The process that's used to make GMOs actually occurs in nature. Structures that are found in viruses and bacteria keep getting added together until you get things like animals and plants. The real problem with GMOs is mostly just they produce pesticides.



    For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.
    — Richard Feynman, Rogers Commission Report, on the Challenger disaster.

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