What is Charisma and how does it tie in with socionics?

[lavos]

It is a popular opinion that EIEs tend to be charismatic individuals. They have a knack for "influencing" (although some might say "manipulating") other people. But are they the only ones possesing this quality of "charisma". Is that what charisma solely is in essence? Which other types might have charisma? Could other types have a charisma with a different "flavour"?

Does it tie in with Fe, and especially beta Fe?

Is is being liked? What about disliked? Is it having leadership ability? Being good-looking or mesmerizing?

Do you have charisma/know what charisma is?



Please discuss.

[ouronis]

I think it is ultimately being able to have a consistent and strong effect on people, hopefully in the way you intend. For example, a leader that gets his people to move due to sheer personality isn't necessarily liked by those people, but still gets them to act because of their ability to tap in to their fears, etc. effectively.

I think there are conscious and unconscious aspects of influence to it since some charisma seems to make people larger than life and some charisma can be seen by some people and not be noticed or felt by others.

I think certain types are more liable to have charisma, Se-doms, Ejs, etc. Introverts and Ne users don't have it as much, but you can of course find it in every type, just with different rarities.

To comment on conscious vs unconscious - the person who you meet and can immediately identify as charismatic because of their effect on you is probably acting on your unconscious mind regardless of personal stances, and the person who you grow to like because of shared views and interests is probably acting on your conscious mind. This seems to imply a division in socionics that unconscious charisma comes from people with super-id function in ego and conscious charisma comes from shared ego functions.

[Bethanyclaire]

EIE-fe, ESE-fe, IEI-fe, SEI-fe, also SEE…seem like the most charismatic types to me

Creative with language plus emotionally expressive (more positive emotions than negative)

[Averroes]

Contact subtypes with Sx in their stackings

[Lord Pixel]

EIE-fe, ESE-fe, IEI-fe, SEI-fe, also SEE…seem like the most charismatic types to me

Creative with language plus emotionally expressive (more positive emotions than negative)

Out of your mind lol, Idk how you leave out the most charismatic type, IEE.

[Lord Pixel]

I think it is ultimately being able to have a consistent and strong effect on people, hopefully in the way you intend. For example, a leader that gets his people to move due to sheer personality isn't necessarily liked by those people, but still gets them to act because of their ability to tap in to their fears, etc. effectively.

I think there are conscious and unconscious aspects of influence to it since some charisma seems to make people larger than life and some charisma can be seen by some people and not be noticed or felt by others.

I think certain types are more liable to have charisma, Se-doms, Ejs, etc. Introverts and Ne users don't have it as much, but you can of course find it in every type, just with different rarities.

To comment on conscious vs unconscious - the person who you meet and can immediately identify as charismatic because of their effect on you is probably acting on your unconscious mind regardless of personal stances, and the person who you grow to like because of shared views and interests is probably acting on your conscious mind. This seems to imply a division in socionics that unconscious charisma comes from people with super-id function in ego and conscious charisma comes from shared ego functions.

Out of your mind sir lol respectfully.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

@lavos

"compelling attractiveness or charm that can inspire devotion in others."

That's the dictionary definition and it's pretty accurate tbh. A charismatic person is putting their own fears to the side ((or in the real world sense the fears & insecurities are just flat out not existent like they are in other people)) more than provoking it in others, I think. So people naturally want to follow them.

I'm not very charismatic IRL probably, but I can be when I'm writing a story or designing some art project.

Charisma also reminds me of this song (starts at about 41 seconds):

[AWellArmedCat]

I was homeschooled as a kid, so I didn't really understand school norms and such when I had to go do my first state test in like 3rd or 4th grade (I can't remember which grade it was exactly). During our lunch recess I did my usual thing of receding into my imagination, not really paying attention to anyone else, and balancing along the little elevated plastic border thing between the playground bark dust area and the pavement. I was just wandering along it totally zoned out and in my happy place when these two big (to me cause I've always been smol) boys came up and pulled me out of my mind. They were like, "Hey, what's your name? We'll protect you. No one is gonna mess with you." Which was pretty confusing to me because no one had tried. These two boys did this completely unprompted as far as I could tell. In any case, I became their escort mission npc for the remainder of the test recesses we had.

I feel like this is how my "charisma" has always worked though. Without really trying or doing much of anything people just decide to "protect" and/or otherwise dedicate themselves to me somehow, seemingly out of nowhere. Not long after that I met an LSI (he could also be SLE-Ti, I go back and forth) and SEE who lived in my neighborhood and did the exact same thing. I was just wandering around spaced out and that was sufficient for them to decide they liked me. I'm still very close friends with the LSI today.

In addition to that sort of thing I also have always gotten people randomly coming up to me, telling me they don't know why but feel they can trust me, and spilling their life stories and traumas to me. I'm always honoured, but hell if I know why people do this. People always tell me I have a natural charisma, but I think it's some kind of very "soft" charisma. It's not the kind I think great generals leading charges would be said to possess

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Charisma is related to Fe I think, yeah. So 1D Fe types can have trouble with this, especially the PoLR Fe people - and probably ILIs the most. Those poor LIIs, SLIs, ILIs & LSIs!

@AWellArmedCat - that's a good example of how shy cuties are often charismatic. Being charismatic isn't necessarily just reserved for outgoing and preppy extroverted people etc. It's basically about inspiring devotion in others no matter what.

[Lord Pixel]

I've had some truly charismatic moments, and it's always come out of my use of Ne, with some Fi honestly mixed in. People have responded well to the breaking of social norms and the more edgy honestly can be refreshing.

I think So instinct lends itself to charisma also.

[Lord Pixel]

Contact subtypes with Sx in their stackings

Welp you got me. EII-Ne So/sx.

[Bethanyclaire]

Out of your mind lol, Idk how you leave out the most charismatic type, IEE.

i think other types can be charismatic but those ones typically have charisma..I can’t help but smile at them people, sometimes I don’t want to….but ultimately it makes them more likeable. They are types I can usually handle- although like Gulenko says lookalikes with opposite subtypes can annoy each other.

My sei-si friend is kinda grumpy (e5) but sometimes she lights up and I see into a nicer part of her soul. It’s funny, I genuinely appreciate people being unselfconsciously exuberant, I see people in the positive way I need and want to see them.

IEE are entertaining and lovable and can be really funny but I think they are a bit more controlled than other types, they have a particular affect in mind..and they want to be genuinely loved, not loved for their charisma lol. The ones I know..

LIE-ni can be charismatic, EII-ne, ESI-fi?, there is a strange, happy, attention-seeking, popular ILI-te guy I work with who I find charismatic although I prefer him in small doses, LSEs can be hilarious when they’re in party mode, LIIs can be charismatic too….

[Lord Pixel]

i think other types can be charismatic but those ones typically have charisma..I can’t help but smile at them people, sometimes I don’t want to….but ultimately it makes them more likeable. They are types I can usually handle- although like Gulenko says lookalikes with opposite subtypes can annoy each other.

My sei-si friend is kinda grumpy (e5) but sometimes she lights up and I see into a nicer part of her soul. It’s funny, I genuinely appreciate people being unselfconsciously exuberant, I see people in the positive way I need and want to see them.

IEE are entertaining and lovable and can be really funny but I think they are a bit more controlled than other types, they have a particular affect in mind..and they want to be genuinely loved, not loved for their charisma lol. The ones I know..

LIE-ni can be charismatic, EII-ne, ESI-fi?, there is a strange, happy, attention-seeking, popular ILI-te guy I work with who I find charismatic although I prefer him in small doses, LSEs can be hilarious when they’re in party mode, LIIs can be charismatic too….

Some of the best comedians are ILE and are very charismatic, Ne just has that effect on folks. But yea I think people can be charismatic in different ways, Se/Ti has it's own way too. I haven't met a charismatic SEI though, but I have met a SLI that was, and alot of it seemed to be Te and Ne with him.

[Bethanyclaire]

Some of the best comedians are ILE and are very charismatic, Ne just has that effect on folks. But yea I think people can be charismatic in different ways, Se/Ti has it's own way too. I haven't met a charismatic SEI though, but I have met a SLI that was, and alot of it seemed to be Te and Ne with him.

There is definitely something about ne..

This is far too personal but I was in a serious meeting about an SEI-fe behaving inappropriately and it was relayed back to me that the person is considered the ‘life and soul of the party’ at work…charisma can be dangerous lol

He kinda is, and he reminds me of my ex EIE buddy. Both are self conscious, ambitious and charming, nice..and spoilt. My SEE-fi brother is the other charismatic person I know..he dropped out of school but he’s made a lot of money, I think he knew he always would. Sometimes charisma ties in with determination and drive

[ouronis]

Out of your mind sir lol respectfully.

Pray tell

[Tallmo]

I dont like to connect it to types. Charisma is when you are in alignment with the unconscious and it adds something to the personality beyond the ego.

Here's one example:

If we think of the normal personality:

Spirit
Ego
Earth

Then this alignment of the ego between spirit and earth creates a polarity and dynamism. But you cant just have spirit, you have to have earth (instincts) also. I think that in charismatic people both polarities are developed more than the average, but as such this alignment is normal, the human archetypal alignment.

Edit:
What I mean is: a person who is engaged in his society, work, life (spirit) with his whole being, instincts (earth)

[adage]

I don't understand charisma.

When I want to find someone with charisma, I tend to look for who is being looked at, with exceptions.
A lot of people are looking at Putin, I can tell it's not charisma tho.

Charisma is off my radar for some reason, I'm not impressed by the popular people, those who catch a lot of attention, mostly because they do and/or say things I find uninteresting.

[godslave]

This YTC is allegedly all about charisma. However It seems to me that it's more a "Men oriented" "No more Mr. Nice guy " kind of channel (?). It's heavy on the Fe and kinda informative. I'm not a fan of Brie Larson so...

[Tallmo]

I don't understand charisma.

When I want to find someone with charisma, I tend to look for who is being looked at, with exceptions.
A lot of people are looking at Putin, I can tell it's not charisma tho.

Charisma is off my radar for some reason, I'm not impressed by the popular people, those who catch a lot of attention, mostly because they do and/or say things I find uninteresting.

Have you watched videos of Carl Jung? He seems very ordinary and "normal", but then on the other hand, he is not. Some people - including myself - get a spontaneous feeling that they just want to laugh or smile when they listen to him. Individuated people have that kind of charisma. Simple, and humble, but still charismatic.

[adage]

Have you watched videos of Carl Jung? He seems very ordinary and "normal", but then on the other hand, he is not. Some people - including myself - get a spontaneous feeling that they just want to laugh or smile when they listen to him. Individuated people have that kind of charisma. Simple, and humble, but still charismatic.

I couldn't watch any videos of him I opened up.
Tried again for good mesure and went to pick a dragon.

I guess who we look up to is about what we need as individuals.
Or who we are maybe.
Perhaps even moments, a fleeting thing.

[Tallmo]

I couldn't watch any videos of him I opened up.
Tried again for good mesure and went to pick a dragon.

I guess who we look up to is about what we need as individuals.
Or who we are maybe.
Perhaps even moments, a fleeting thing.

Do you mean that there was some technical problem with the video or that you couldnt watch it because you got bored /felt negative etc by the video?

People were impressed by the videos since when they first were shown on television in the 1950'ies. He has a very strong personality, but gives a simple
, genuine impression.

[adage]

Do you mean that there was some technical problem with the video or that you couldnt watch it because you got bored /felt negative etc by the video?

People were impressed by the videos since when they first were shown on television in the 1950'ies. He has a very strong personality, but gives a simple
, genuine impression.

I kept looking away.
It's like how water and oil stay seperate, you can mix them but they'll split sooner or later.

[Lord Pixel]

Pray tell

Anytime I or LIIs I've known where charismatic it was mostly because of Ne.

[Lord Pixel]

There is definitely something about ne..

This is far too personal but I was in a serious meeting about an SEI-fe behaving inappropriately and it was relayed back to me that the person is considered the ‘life and soul of the party’ at work…charisma can be dangerous lol

He kinda is, and he reminds me of my ex EIE buddy. Both are self conscious, ambitious and charming, nice..and spoilt. My SEE-fi brother is the other charismatic person I know..he dropped out of school but he’s made a lot of money, I think he knew he always would. Sometimes charisma ties in with determination and drive

Yea, I've known some SEEs who had very natural don't have to do anything kinda charisma, like it's their presence alone. Very different than Ne style charisma where it's mostly based on what is said. Something about SEEs, some of them just feel full of life in a way that most people are not.

[ouronis]

Anytime I or LIIs I've known where charismatic it was mostly because of Ne.

That isn't mutually exclusive with what I said. If I describe a tendency for Ne egos not to be charismatic, that doesn't mean Ne can't be a source of charisma.

[Lord Pixel]

That isn't mutually exclusive with what I said. If I describe a tendency for Ne egos not to be charismatic, that doesn't mean Ne can't be a source of charisma.

Yea, I just disagree with that tendency, purely based off my own observations I've seen the opposite. I've seen Ne as a source of charisma far too many times, in myself, other people irl, and comedians on TV, that it actually seems like a common tendency. Se charisma is much rarer ime, those people truly stand out, but Ne charisma seems commonplace. From what I've seen in a group of people the funny guy is usually some Ne ego. I'm actually more curious how you come to the conclusion that Ne egos don't have as much charisma.

[ouronis]

Yea, I just disagree with that tendency, purely based off my own observations I've seen the opposite. I've seen Ne as a source of charisma far too many times, in myself, other people irl, and comedians on TV, that it actually seems like a common tendency. Se charisma is much rarer ime, those people truly stand out, but Ne charisma seems commonplace. From what I've seen in a group of people the funny guy is usually some Ne ego. I'm actually more curious how you come to the conclusion that Ne egos don't have as much charisma.

Because I've seen Ne people feel Se charisma but much harder the other way around. Tends to fall on deaf ears

[chriscorey]

I've never found anyone to be especially charismatic, so I don't know. I can say this:

My SEI psychologist said to me "You're really charismatic."

My SEE mom said: "You're not charismatic at all"

[Bethanyclaire]

Because I've seen Ne people feel Se charisma but much harder the other way around. Tends to fall on deaf ears

I meant to click constructive for this but accidentally clicked the other post.

[moonmoony]

Something makes people attracted to you maybe?

It's your style, how you deal with people, etc

[Tallmo]

I kept looking away.
It's like how water and oil stay seperate, you can mix them but they'll split sooner or later.

Interesting. Could you say some more about why you couldnt watch videos of Jung? Are you normally that sensitive?

[adage]

Interesting. Could you say some more about why you couldnt watch videos of Jung? Are you normally that sensitive?

It's just my attention won't stick to it, and I'm not willing to force it for things I can easily live without.
Not sure what you mean by sensitive tho.

[lavos]

I think there might be a difference between 'implicit' charisma an 'active' charisma. Active charisma is probably related to Fe, which translates as people skills. Then there is something else, something more inherent to a person that makes others want to follow them or support them in their endeavours, similar to what A Well Armed Cat described happening to him. Then there is also presence (maybe it has to do with the soul and Ni?), as persimmonism described, which I think is also inherent. Like something that makes people shift attention to a person, like they stand out from a crowd. Then there is also natural authority, which perhaps correlates with Te. And power which correlates with Se.

People can have negative charisma or anti-charisma, much like a D&D stat. Positive charisma can be as polarizing as negative charisma I believe. There are people who feel threatened in the presence of a charismatic individual.

[Lord Pixel]

Because I've seen Ne people feel Se charisma but much harder the other way around. Tends to fall on deaf ears

OK, I've seen this too. But I've seen Ne take over whole rooms before.

[nifl]

Charisma: personal charm or magnetism, according to my pop-up dictionary
with this definition, it's primarily ethical types, secondarily extraverts