counterpoint to the other thread.
Want to hear people's responses about this lol.
How would you describe an LSE?
counterpoint to the other thread.
Want to hear people's responses about this lol.
Not like Nurse Ratched, who is a negative stereotype of LSI.
Having dealt with one; All the negative stereotypes of ENFjs put into a square-headed yuppie...
If I'm not answering you, I'm either procrastinating a response, or I've judged the conversation as fruitless/already settled prior to the debate for me.
Plausible types; INxP>INxj>ENxp>ENxj
I haven't met them irl tbh
Souls know their way back home
Definitely don't like to or know how to read between the lines, they stress people to "say what you mean and mean what you say." talk straight with them.
Some have a huge professional smile when you first meet them, big fake smile and a firm hand shake, like a politician.
Prone to breaking their back for other people but neglect themselves often. Only later on do they get pissed off and finally say screw people I'm tired of helping everyone else, thing is everybody else can see this explosion coming. Very Self sacrificial, to a fault. Too busy solving everyone else's problems. They don't even feel like they have permission to take care of themselves until all the problems around them are fixed. This is why they get burnt out, they feel guilty and super selfish if they stop and do what they want over what they think people NEED them to do.
NEEDS people to tell them what to do, do not read that as boss them around, but "What do you want to eat?" do not ask them "Idk, what do you want to eat?" They will become irritated, they are geared towards getting the people what the people want, themselves are out of the equation, so tell them what the people want.
Sometimes their bossiness is misunderstood, by people and by themselves. People don't see that the LSE is just trying to help, albeit very aggressively, and the LSE doesn't see that their assertive and aggressive help comes off as pushy, bossy, condescending and makes people not like them. LSE is confused like "Why don't they like me, I'm not a mean person, I'm just trying to help!".
When an LSE's feelings are hurt, which does happen, they need to process it alone, they often get quiet, unless it's anger then they get loud. But if there is someone who looks out for their feelings they will delegate to that person to explain to the offending party why what the offending party did was actually offensive, LSE feels hurt but has a hard time justifying these feelings, so they turn to someone who can.
If they like something that's not popular or well known, they ask other people around them if they like it so the LSE can feel ok admitting they like the thing, they fear people judging them for what they like, they don't want to stick out like a weirdo.
Can be very unadventurous and resistant to trying new things, especially food, very particular about food, some can be big germaphobes, will complain if things aren't taken care of in a sanitary way (ie. washing dishes, thoroughly wiping surfaces the right way, needs to know if a towel made contact with the floor, etc).
They see themselves as "I am what I do." Not "I am what I am." They can put too much of their identity on the things they do, especially for other people. "I care about my kids because I put a roof over their heads, therefore I'm a good mom." not "I care about my kids, therefore I put a roof over their heads, because I'm a good mom.".
Head spins if you tell them too much technical detail about something. "Cut to the chase."
Take things very literally.
Respond very positively to "clever" people.
Has a silly side that can get sparked when around witty people, especially ILE, folds over laughing around them.
Can get very attached to people, people represent how valuable the LSE is, they have a hard time seeing any value in themselves outside of the things they do for other people, prone to have a hard time with an empty nest, "Who do I take care of now? Who do I do things for now? Myself?!". When they finally do this though it's a huge revelation for them. Mid Life crisis kinda stuff. Getting a divorce from spouse because they are done sacrificing themselves for them and neglecting what they want and the kids are out of the house, kinda stuff. But they find it hard to quit on relationships because they feel an obligation to the person, since they get value out of all the things they do for them.
Some become coaches later in life, this happens when they break away from running around in circles taking care of everyone else's everyday problems and getting nowhere in the grand scheme of things, and they finally prioritize the things important to them. But they can't just do the things important to them for themselves, they like to teach other people according to what the LSE finds important, this is how they bridge the gap with their addiction to solving everyone else's problems to their own values. This is what a high functioning LSE looks like. Helping other's while doing what they think is important, what they love.
Can have conspiracy theories that they become very very attached to, only like to share with close friends.
Last edited by Lord Pixel; 08-18-2022 at 09:09 PM.
Descriptions are shit. So I wouldn't. I could describe individual LSEs I have known (there aeren't many, delta managers are rare when compared with beta managers ime), but they differ with individual characteristics and even common traits (probably) won't apply to all examples of a type, so those traits can be deceiving when trying to diagnose people's type.
I really like that @Lord Pixel - this is kinda my version of that what I experienced but I know I'm biased. some of this crap I already said before but whatever. I'm kinda like the narcissist in the SheDaisy song so repetition is what I need.
says 'stop playing a victim' a lot or accuses u of playing the victim. although they probably say this to their conflictors more than anything.
I agree genuinely wants to help but comes off too abrasive. I don't think they see much difference between helping others vs helping themselves they do both quite often and quite well, at least externally. Micro-manages, often tries to lead ppl and boss people around. Wants a good external reputation in the world. Passes all of Oprah's and the real world exams with flying colors even though interpsonally they can be exploitative and cruel and people start distrusting their Umbridge-ness even if they know the IEI ain't perfect either.
cares deeply about ethics & who is good and evil but because 1D Fi & Ni actually is quite poor about these things themselves. Really admires goody two shoes EIIs who are 'good' in a textbook and institutional way. Can be overly manipulated by the Hallmark channel and Republican Holy Light.
because they are trolled by Ni often think that a person thinking something is the same thing as them doing it, or they must have the intention to do it. There isn't any such thing as fantasies with them sometimes, 'everything is real.' U need to be careful what thoughts u share with them, cuz they are bad at reading between the lines and will definitely try to punish you if it's too dark and weird.... or their Ne valuing tells them 'it has the potential to be' It's like provocation isn't allowed because THEY are the only ones allowed to be provocative, because they know the best and are more moral than others. They care a lot about boundaries and being appropriate and the least little weird thing can make them go beserk sometimes.
Doesn't admit they were wrong or apologizes often. But if they were wrong or too harsh they correct this by attempting to be a bit warmer/softer to the person they offended, but it kinda comes off really fake and Oprah-y because they aren't ethical types. The person understands the point, but it comes off really bitter & astringent still (especially to IEIs) And they still can't help but throw in a passive aggressive dig even when trying to be nice
If they really like you personally, they will be a good 'mama/papa bear' to you and do everything in their power to help you and tank for you- but they value Fi really strongly and this isn't done in a Fe way... and they often can be quite blind to ur faults if they do like you, cuz Ni polr. This can be a positive thing I think... but it wasn't in Starr Evilwealth.
Yes this was all about Regina Hurt as usual. <3
Their cookings alway taste the same. The most stable when it come to cooking.
I think Gamma SF's cookings taste the best, but very unstable because it depend on their mood/laziness. And they use too much condiments.
[Off topic on/ I think we should make a "How would you describe..." thread for each type, or one general for all types. I always emphasise how much our "Type(s) Image(s)" is important for it is how each one of us "sees" a given type. Most of us have one or two Type Images for each given type, however the discord between people which prevent the consensus is that each type is not only "customized" by life but also comes in different flavors in the first place hence the subtypes. I'll add that threads like this one can help people identify "markers" (sine qua non) of TIMs instead of "Traits" which are detected via Dichotomies and such. Off topic off/]
LSE is a gifted person who is a" know it all", works hard and has hypermnesia.
No that's ok lol.Originally Posted by godslave
[Off topic on/ I think we should make a "How would you describe..." thread for each type, or one general for all types. I always emphasise how much our "Type(s) Image(s)" is important for it is how each one of us "sees" a given type. Most of us have one or two Type Images for each given type, however the discord between people which prevent the consensus is that each type is not only "customized" by life but also comes in different flavors in the first place hence the subtypes. I'll add that threads like this one can help people identify "markers" (sine qua non) of TIMs instead of "Traits" which are detected via Dichotomies and such. Off topic off/]
LSE is a gifted person who is a" know it all", works hard and has hypermnesia.
Oh yea, definitely this. Especially the intention to do it right then and there.
*sees movie trailer*
Innocent bystander :"I'm gonna go see that movie."
LSE: *grabs car keys*
Innocent bystander: "I mean't maybe this weekend, not right now!"
Yea, about sums it up.Republican Holy Light.
You've just served to confirm my own typing of my mother further. You've described her so hard it hurts. Also reinforces my typing of my brother as an SEE and his wife as an IEI. Basically, you've just given me a data point that fits in with everything else I thought I was right about. Thanks. Hopefully not by any form of intent as that's a whole other can of worms I'd rather not have opened if I can help it.Definitely don't like to or know how to read between the lines, they stress people to "say what you mean and mean what you say." talk straight with them.
Some have a huge professional smile when you first meet them, big fake smile and a firm hand shake, like a politician.
Prone to breaking their back for other people but neglect themselves often. Only later on do they get pissed off and finally say screw people I'm tired of helping everyone else, thing is everybody else can see this explosion coming. Very Self sacrificial, to a fault. Too busy solving everyone else's problems. They don't even feel like they have permission to take care of themselves until all the problems around them are fixed. This is why they get burnt out, they feel guilty and super selfish if they stop and do what they want over what they think people NEED them to do.
NEEDS people to tell them what to do, do not read that as boss them around, but "What do you want to eat?" do not ask them "Idk, what do you want to eat?" They will become irritated, they are geared towards getting the people what the people want, themselves are out of the equation, so tell them what the people want.
Sometimes their bossiness is misunderstood, by people and by themselves. People don't see that the LSE is just trying to help, albeit very aggressively, and the LSE doesn't see that their assertive and aggressive help comes off as pushy, bossy, condescending and makes people not like them. LSE is confused like "Why don't they like me, I'm not a mean person, I'm just trying to help!".
When an LSE's feelings are hurt, which does happen, they need to process it alone, they often get quiet, unless it's anger then they get loud. But if there is someone who looks out for their feelings they will delegate to that person to explain to the offending party why what the offending party did was actually offensive, LSE feels hurt but has a hard time justifying these feelings, so they turn to someone who can.
If they like something that's not popular or well known, they ask other people around them if they like it so the LSE can feel ok admitting they like the thing, they fear people judging them for what they like, they don't want to stick out like a weirdo.
Can be very unadventurous and resistant to trying new things, especially food, very particular about food, some can be big germaphobes, will complain if things aren't taken care of in a sanitary way (ie. washing dishes, thoroughly wiping surfaces the right way, needs to know if a towel made contact with the floor, etc).
They see themselves as "I am what I do." Not "I am what I am." They can put too much of their identity on the things they do, especially for other people. "I care about my kids because I put a roof over their heads, therefore I'm a good mom." not "I care about my kids, therefore I put a roof over their heads, because I'm a good mom.".
Head spins if you tell them too much technical detail about something. "Cut to the chase."
Take things very literally.
Respond very positively to "clever" people.
Has a silly side that can get sparked when around witty people, especially ILE, folds over laughing around them.
Can get very attached to people, people represent how valuable the LSE is, they have a hard time seeing any value in themselves outside of the things they do for other people, prone to have a hard time with an empty nest, "Who do I take care of now? Who do I do things for now? Myself?!". When they finally do this though it's a huge revelation for them. Mid Life crisis kinda stuff. Getting a divorce from spouse because they are done sacrificing themselves for them and neglecting what they want and the kids are out of the house, kinda stuff. But they find it hard to quit on relationships because they feel an obligation to the person, since they get value out of all the things they do for them.
Some become coaches later in life, this happens when they break away from running around in circles taking care of everyone else's everyday problems and getting nowhere in the grand scheme of things, and they finally prioritize the things important to them. But they can't just do the things important to them for themselves, they like to teach other people according to what the LSE finds important, this is how they bridge the gap with their addiction to solving everyone else's problems to their own values. This is what a high functioning LSE looks like. Helping other's while doing what they think is important, what they love.
Can have conspiracy theories that they become very very attached to, only like to share with close friends.
Surveillance and intelligence ops... Look into that wormhole at thine own peril. Yet if you want to actually make any form of a difference for the better that's where you really ought to start. If you aren't getting "Gang-stalked" you're not on the right track of something that'll get you Arkanisided.
Hell, I'm relatively certain that just by posting this I'll be banned from this site at best and dead by the week's end at worst. Proves my points I'd say. Sin makes ya stupid and they'd be dumb as all fuck indeed to kill me now!
Totally by intent, I'm your next door neighbor, I've been watching you my whole life. As long as you don't tell them I told you, we're both safe.
Interesting about the SEE IEI thing.
Last edited by Lord Pixel; 08-20-2022 at 06:11 PM.
I have been with LSE (estj) for over 8 years and this is the most perfect description of him. I you are still debating how is a LSE high functioning, this is most certainly correct!
i have been with LSE for over 8 years and this the most accurate description of him.
I have an LSE-friend atm. In the time we’ve known each other I’ve been going through some hard times. I can’t say that he’s very supportive, although he does try to make me laugh. He’s my friend’s boyfriend so he’s more like a friend of a friend. He seems to view me as a sweet inept child even though he’s aware that I went through a horrible situation. Often when I see him I’m fairly open with him about how I’m feeling because we’ve known each other a while now. He doesn’t really know how to show empathy, or he doesn’t see it as his responsibility. I think he thinks I’m exaggerating when I tell him I’m feeling rubbish. I think our relationship would benefit from me telling him about socionics but there’s never been the right moment yet. He is really fun on a night out thoughmy ESE mum can be a bit like this- ignores me when I try to explain the mental
effect a physical ailment is having on me. I think they can only empathise if it’s a problem they know a lot about. Also, if they already have reasons to respect you they might listen more?
Edit: might be being a bit harsh, this guy does seem to like me but I just don’t think we can connect when I’m not feeling my best. It’s like he doesn’t really know the real me, but in his defence, I probably have been having an identity crisis. There were times though were both him and his bf could have been more compassionate- if someone’s telling you they feel down, it’s ok to say- I’m sorry dude, you’re gonna get through this. But I think this is partly coz they’re men, both from cultural backgrounds where men were expected to act tough. I think sometimes IEIs bring out the inner bully in people- people will treat IEIs with the same unrealistic expectations an adult once unfairly had on them. I’m not sure if I’m really making a clear point here, I might edit.
I remember observing a new LSE male teacher (also gay) and he was really knowledgable and impressive. But after a while the kids started to turn on him and it was clear they really didn’t like him. He was really harsh and shouted too much. This was quite a tough class but there were only around ten of them, they had various special needs and were around aged 10. They needed a lot of tlc.
I also had an LSE-si mate. He was lovely, but a bit tiring sometimes as he talked a lot and was very very literal. One of the nicest people I’ve ever met, and a long time singleton. I recently heard he got engaged and the lady looks EII. This guy would party for days on end without sleeping, or taking any sort of stimulant. I think he really needed fun in his life to give it some meaning. So he could empathise more with me about feeling things like exhaustion..even though his breaking point was a lot higher than mine.
My LSE-si boss is a good guy. He did a good job of running things throughout the pandemic although I always said they were forgetting the importance of looking out for peoples well-being whilst they obsessively tried to take take care of everyone’s health and physical safety. Arguably he was right, because it was a pandemic. But team morale did get quite low and I found myself in a horrible position where my managers were ignoring my complaints about a toxic relationship with a fellow co-worker. This happened later in the pandemic, at a point where they were starting to focus on business priorities. For a while, morale was really low and managers were not really doing their jobs. Anyway, I’ve had some good discussions with the LSE and I think he really appreciates the feedback. He really does want a happy team and appreciates constructive feedback and any enthusiasm about how to improve the way we work.
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 08-21-2022 at 11:51 AM.
Haha yes, it's super basic but mind blowing to them lol.
And yea I do think they feel stupid after.
It's interesting that @Shazaam often points out how stereo typically straight LSE guys appear, but I've seen more gay LSE men than any other type I've seen online.I have an LSE-friend atm. In the time we’ve known each other I’ve been going through some hard times. I can’t say that he’s very supportive, although he does try to make me laugh. He’s my friend’s boyfriend so he’s more like a friend of a friend. He seems to view me as a sweet inept child even though he’s aware that I went through a horrible situation. Often when I see him I’m fairly open with him about how I’m feeling because we’ve known each other a while now. He doesn’t really know how to show empathy, or he doesn’t see it as his responsibility. I think he thinks I’m exaggerating when I tell him I’m feeling rubbish. I think our relationship would benefit from me telling him about socionics but there’s never been the right moment yet. He is really fun on a night out though
effect a physical ailment is having on me. I think they can only empathise if it’s a problem they know a lot about. Also, if they already have reasons to respect you they might listen more?
Edit: might be being a bit harsh, this guy does seem to like me but I just don’t think we can connect when I’m not feeling my best. It’s like he doesn’t really know the real me, but in his defence, I probably have been having an identity crisis. There were times though were both him and his bf could have been more compassionate- if someone’s telling you they feel down, it’s ok to say- I’m sorry dude, you’re gonna get through this. But I think this is partly coz they’re men, both from cultural backgrounds where men were expected to act tough. I think sometimes IEIs bring out the inner bully in people- people will treat IEIs with the same unrealistic expectations an adult once unfairly had on them. I’m not sure if I’m really making a clear point here, I might edit.
I remember observing a new LSE male teacher (also gay) and he was really knowledgable and impressive. But after a while the kids started to turn on him and it was clear they really didn’t like him. He was really harsh and shouted too much. This was quite a tough class but there were only around ten of them, they had various special needs and were around aged 10. They needed a lot of tlc.
I also had an LSE-si mate. He was lovely, but a bit tiring sometimes as he talked a lot and was very very literal. One of the nicest people I’ve ever met, and a long time singleton. I recently heard he got engaged and the lady looks EII. This guy would party for days on end without sleeping, or taking any sort of stimulant. I think he really needed fun in his life to give it some meaning. So he could empathise more with me about feeling things like exhaustion..even though his breaking point was a lot higher than mine.
My LSE-si boss is a good guy. He did a good job of running things throughout the pandemic although I always said they were forgetting the importance of looking out for peoples well-being whilst they obsessively tried to take take care of everyone’s health and physical safety. Arguably he was right, because it was a pandemic. But team morale did get quite low and I found myself in a horrible position where my managers were ignoring my complaints about a toxic relationship with a fellow co-worker. This happened later in the pandemic, at a point where they were starting to focus on business priorities. For a while, morale was really low and managers were not really doing their jobs. Anyway, I’ve had some good discussions with the LSE and I think he really appreciates the feedback. He really does want a happy team and appreciates constructive feedback and any enthusiasm about how to improve the way we work.
I've also seen an LSE say "The soul needs exploration." sounds like they are referencing the moblizing and suggestive.I think he really needed fun in his life to give it some meaning
I know a gay LSE online.... he's incredibly macho and handsome and "straight acting" - (bad phrase because it's not an act, he's just naturally masculine but whatever, words aren't perfect) you'd never know he was gay at all by looking and talking to him. We piss each other off whenever we try to communicate to each other tho lol. Pretty sure he always mistakes me for an EII when he messages me and I always let him down.
You might want to consider a career change from being a gay forum poster, to being a gay LSE-beacon, who you can then pawn off to the EIIs working at thrift shops.
This is how I see my LSE friend.
- Ambivert: he can be extravert and talkative if he has a good day, but other times appear too much introvert.
I instantly understand if it happened something or he has some negative thoughts. He needs to speak about these problems to few trusted people.
- It happens He goes in rage mode but I always get the impression it is a little fake as thing, like he felt that being impositive was needed at that moment and so he acted that way, but he doesn't give the impression of real rage. It is a Se demonstrative attitude.
- Scaramantic, like ESEs. I think that's due to Ni PolR. When He speaks bad about someone he always equilibrate his words with good intention to help these people. I noticed that in those periods he has problems with people and must confront them (scolding them like a father would) he always makes sign of the cross when we pass in front of churces. He fear to hurts people and being considered a person with no moral.
- If he argues with someone he tries to end discussions (or relationships) in a polite way, because he fears being considered "evil". These were his exact words when he explained it to me. This is a suggestive Fi thing imo, not PolR. He wants to create intense bonds with people at a personal level, but it is hard, because he is a lot introvert.
- What I already said is also connected to Fe role. If Te is not working in a context, he goes Fe mode, despite being not very good at it. Contrary to the stereotype of Mbti, ESTjs appear a lot "lawful good" and warm people.
In general, he reminds me of Eddard Stark from Game of Thrones.
Last edited by Lesri; 08-22-2022 at 04:35 PM.
No more gobbledy**** and watch this
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
Things I've noticed about the LSE:
Very mobile, usually busy, always willing to help out a friend, may offer helpful advice whether it has been solicited or not, impatient.
Completely predictable.
Thinks and judges you and withdraws and thinks that they too are that way also.
Generally either time watchers and rush you or relaxed and so laid back you think we’re never going to get there
Sometimes hot and cold
Sometimes fire and fury
Enjoys fresh foods
Anything that goes in the refrigerator when I cook it may not get eaten until I reheat it properly
Likes balanced healthy meals proteins and vegetables
Has a super clear mind as in if you want to make something happen in your future will tell you what you need to do to make that happen
You want to go back to school? You need to make sure your loans will be forgiven, how long will it take? Etc will gather all information and then tell you what to do
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
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