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Thread: Can an ISFJ in MBTI be IEI in Socionics?

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    Default Can an ISFJ in MBTI be IEI in Socionics?

    reading about the IEI type had me shocked because Id never seen myself described so well. Since ISFJ is more closely associated with SEI I was convinced that was my type at first, but I spoke to some typists and made some posts where everyone seemed to agree with me being Beta NF. I still wonder if iím actually SEI since itís far more likely for ISFJ, but socionics Si is just not relatable to me neither is Alpha Quadra.


    ISFJ is a type I arrived to by process of elimination, it doesnít fit perfectly like IEI does but itís the only fit. MBTI Ni-Se axis is also not relatable to me, and I definitely have MBTI Si past orientation with Fe so I know Iím an ISFJ and not INFJ/INFP.


    Is this combo possible or likely? Iíve seen a few people typed as ISFJ + IEI so it doesnít seem impossible (notably heinrich himmler who isnít the best example but hey)


    I know an ENTP who claims to be IEI-Fe which just seems straight up impossible so I suppose ISFJ IEI is actually more likely.

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    It depends. I'm not sure of your type. You described yourself in XEI way. What are points for IEI against SEI?
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    Imo it's not impossible. Reason: things are defined differently in the two systems.

    This topic is a bit controversial. You'll get a lot of mixed feedback/input.


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    Points for SEI:

    I don’t like being uncomfortable and was very lazy as a kid, probably to avoid physical discomfort.
    Stereotypical, but I enjoy cooking
    I don’t forget to eat or sleep
    I visually identify as a blend of LII and SEI
    Im also nostalgic and like to rewatch old movies and stuff, this seems more in line with SEI. MBTI Si is very relatable in this sense. I’m impressionistic, like Jung says Si users are

    Points for IEI
    I mentioned it in a previous post, but I’ve always had a hidden desire for power or revolution. I’m not very brave but at times where I could muster up that bravery to talk back to authority like teachers. As for “closer” authority like parents I spent my entire childhood talking back or disagreeing with them. Whilst I’m uncomfortable with physical confrontations, safe conflict was always stimulating for me and being perceived as nice or sweet made me mad simply because I felt undermined and belittled. I also have an Us Vs Then mentality - if someone sides with another group I wont accept them as part of mine.
    This is stereotypical, but I enjoy abstract conversation topics to those that are mundane
    I’ve also never been able to live in the present moment, it’s always been a struggle for me, Ive spent a majority of my life daydreaming about my dream future since childhood. This dream always changes and is usually possible but highly unrealistic, but yeah.
    I have a hidden aggressive/bossy streak for sure which it doesn’t take a lot of effort to pull out, but I struggle with Se in that it seems like a weapon i struggle to wield unless i’m against someone who doesn’t know any better.
    I don’t relate to the alpha quadra attitude of “let’s all be happy and laugh and innovate!”, it’s cool and I see the appeal of being that kind of person but it seems boring to me, like it lacks passion and drive and fluctuation. I’m sure it’s fun and all, but such an atmosphere feels pretty uninspiring

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    i dont think its possible
    ur one or the other

    not sure which one
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    No

    If ISFJ is not SEI and is a different type , it would be ESE

    I have thought of this for a long time, I used to believe that it's not necessary to be the same type in both systems


    But when I started to type people using Reinin signs ( merry/serious, judicious/ decisive in the first place) the results were different from what I thought

    ISTP MBTI people who thought they are SLI , we found out that they are LSI Se Subtype
    I could explain why this happened, vut I will do later because I'm a little bit busy now ,

    So , no

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    ISFJ and IEI are models of type that are very different from each other. ISFJ are down-to-earth and practical, pretty much the opposite of an IEI in this regard.
    You can't be both types really.
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    this is a fair point. i’m not very down to earth or practical, but function wise ISFJ seems to be the only type that makes sense for me.
    what would you say about my supposed ENTP IEI-Fe friend? he claims he’s not EIE, is this combination impossible?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple View Post
    Points for SEI:

    I don’t like being uncomfortable and was very lazy as a kid, probably to avoid physical discomfort.
    Stereotypical, but I enjoy cooking
    I don’t forget to eat or sleep
    I visually identify as a blend of LII and SEI
    Im also nostalgic and like to rewatch old movies and stuff, this seems more in line with SEI. MBTI Si is very relatable in this sense. I’m impressionistic, like Jung says Si users are
    This is pretty normative and expected from everyone. This is not indicative of 4D Si, in fact it's more indicative of 2D Si. So more points in favor of IEI (2D Role Si).



    Points for IEI
    I mentioned it in a previous post, but I’ve always had a hidden desire for power or revolution. I’m not very brave but at times where I could muster up that bravery to talk back to authority like teachers. As for “closer” authority like parents I spent my entire childhood talking back or disagreeing with them. Whilst I’m uncomfortable with physical confrontations, safe conflict was always stimulating for me and being perceived as nice or sweet made me mad simply because I felt undermined and belittled. I also have an Us Vs Then mentality - if someone sides with another group I wont accept them as part of mine.
    This points to valued and Weak Se and "aristocracy">democracy. Beta values. Some of this points imho to EIE actually.

    This is stereotypical, but I enjoy abstract conversation topics to those that are mundane
    I’ve also never been able to live in the present moment, it’s always been a struggle for me, I've spent a majority of my life daydreaming about my dream future since childhood. This dream always changes and is usually possible but highly unrealistic, but yeah.
    Although that sounds vague, it's expected from an IEI to dream and see the possibility of releasing those dreams without having a clue or even thinking about how to implement them in the field of reality because of a lack of will. That points to Se suggestive of course.

    I have a hidden aggressive/bossy streak for sure which it doesn’t take a lot of effort to pull out, but I struggle with Se in that it seems like a weapon i struggle to wield unless i’m against someone who doesn’t know any better.
    That points again, to weak and valued Se. I've noticed the martial vocabulary in your analogy which again points to Beta values.

    I don’t relate to the alpha quadra attitude of “let’s all be happy and laugh and innovate!”, it’s cool and I see the appeal of being that kind of person but it seems boring to me, like it lacks passion and drive and fluctuation. I’m sure it’s fun and all, but such an atmosphere feels pretty uninspiring
    A key theme in Beta Quadra : Passion ! This points to valued Fe and again Beta NF.

    I think you have a lot of IEI traits but you also have some EIE traits although I think IEI>EIE I can not be sure. I think the more you'll interact with people in this forum ( If you want of course) the more your type will manifest itself. It could be a whole other type than the two suggested above, after all because among other things, my typing skills are not very sharp !

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    MBTI is

    id not try to convert, just think of them as two separate systems

    just imo

    PS, I glanced at your other thread and you sounded IEI to me, but Iíve changed my mind after videos or what not, but that was my impression

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    that’s true. i can’t deny that Socionics is a far more useful and developed tool, but I feel like having MBTI type figured out adds an extra layer of nuance. IEIs can apparently commonly be INFPs, INFJs and ENFJs. There’s probably going to be a world of difference between an INFP IEI and an ENFJ IEI. I feel like 99% of the MBTI community is full of shit and misinformation, but a few corners of the internet have useful information. The channel Cognitive Personality Theory comes to mind. I also dislike all the physiognomy aspects of Socionics so I prefer MBTI in that regard.
    At the end of the day, if an MBTI type and Socionics type are wildly different there’s probably some mistyping going on. Socionics is also a lot more behavioural as opposed to purely cognitive. I believe this is a strength since cognition does influence behaviour but some see it as a weakness
    I think both theories are useful if you can filter through the shit and find the important information.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple View Post
    this is a fair point. i’m not very down to earth or practical, but function wise ISFJ seems to be the only type that makes sense for me.
    what would you say about my supposed ENTP IEI-Fe friend? he claims he’s not EIE, is this combination impossible?
    Your friend is probably ENFP which corresponds to IEE. IEI and ENTP are common mistypes for them.
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    They’re definitely on the Fe/Ti axis in MBTI, not as sure about Socionics for them. Anyway it’s kind of pointless for me to give my biased perspective of them here I guess. but i’ll try to influence them to reconsider their type since it seems too contradictory and unlikely

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    (From this source)

    Descriptions of Si and Ni are especially incompatible between two systems to expect near 1:1 overlap for Beta NFs and xNFJs/Alpha SFs and xSFJs tbh, so added to points others already brought up, past focus in Socionics would point more towards Ni than Si, as it was one of the things you mentioned as for why you identify with ISFJ/with MBTI Si?

    (And it might be useful for your friend too, maybe?)





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    Yea. My grandmother is 2w1 IEI, and she is probably ISFJ in MBTI. So it's possible. Depends mostly on which enneagram.

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    Quote Originally Posted by godslave View Post
    A key theme in Beta Quadra : Passion ! This points to valued Fe and again Beta NF.
    I think it's important to remember context with this word. Se relates to force, willpower, drive, etc. which can also be described using the word passion. I think the way Beta quadra is passionate is through animated expression of emotion, or the presence of the emotional atmosphere. I don't think that IEI would, for instance, be described as "driven, motivated, persevering" as go-to descriptive words in general, since they are Se Suggestive and kind of need someone else to come along and help them with that...yet, someone who is driven, motivated, and persevering, can also be described as very passionate.

    I've encountered this mix up myself, as I am very passionate in the Se way, and people have mistaken my claims of being "passionate" for me being Beta quadra. When read in context, though, Beta quadra style passion doesn't fit me. I'm not really prone to demonstrating my emotion outwardly that way. Quite the opposite, I tend to come off as very placid and dry (cough.boring.cough) and it conflicts with how I feel inside. I speak in an informative way about how I feel as a method for bridging the gap between how I feel and what is actually shown ("I like you," "I feel like X,")....as opposed to Fe, which just demonstrates it.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Lady View Post
    I think it's important to remember context with this word. Se relates to force, willpower, drive, etc. which can also be described using the word passion. I think the way Beta quadra is passionate is through animated expression of emotion, or the emotional presence of the emotional atmosphere. I don't think that IEI would, for instance, be described as "driven, motivated, persevering" as go-to descriptive words in general, since they are Se Suggestive and kind of need someone else to come along and help them with that...yet, someone who is driven, motivated, and persevering, can also be described as very passionate.

    I've encountered this mix up myself, as I am very passionate in the Se way, and people have mistaken my claims of being "passionate" for me being Beta quadra. When read in context, though, Beta quadra style passion doesn't fit me.
    You're absolutely right ! Passion in any sense, is not a Beta Quadra prerogative. However, imho there is a sense of tragic, dramatic and dare I say romantic in the way passion is expressed in this particular Quadra.

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    Quote Originally Posted by godslave View Post
    You're absolutely right ! Passion in any sense, is not a Beta Quadra prerogative. However, imho there is a sense of tragic, dramatic and dare I say romantic in the way passion is expressed in this particular Quadra.
    Absolutely. I think Morrisey is pretty much EIE Poster Boy, and...well, you can see a lot of that dramatic passion in his performances. It's as though he is acting out everything he is saying. Sometimes he adds a bit of extra flair, like sprinkling flowers/leaves or something, I think I saw in one video.



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    ahh I see, this is helpful. I’ll still consider ESI as an option then, since the Se doesn’t necessarily point to Beta Quadra. Since you’re an ESI yourself what made you sure that was your type, if you don’t mind sharing? that advice might help me eliminate ESI or alternatively consider it as a likely option. @Cat Lady

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    not sure how to delete this comment lol
    Last edited by pineapple; 08-13-2022 at 12:18 PM. Reason: accident

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple View Post
    not sure how to delete this comment lol
    Edit Post > Delete > Delete Message > Delete Post

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    It is official now. All bums are Ni bases with some exceptions when they rule the world like Bezos and dr Evil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanguine Miasma View Post
    It is official now. All bums are Ni bases with some exceptions when they rule the world like Bezos and dr Evil.
    I wasn't implying that, either.
    Last edited by Lady Lioness; 08-14-2022 at 02:02 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple View Post
    ahh I see, this is helpful. I’ll still consider ESI as an option then, since the Se doesn’t necessarily point to Beta Quadra. Since you’re an ESI yourself what made you sure that was your type, if you don’t mind sharing? that advice might help me eliminate ESI or alternatively consider it as a likely option. @Cat Lady
    What made me type this way was that some people who had known me very well for like 3-4 years pointed it out, and I was like "what? no way" and the more I read about it, the more I realized I was a walking ESI meme.

    I doubt my experience with it will help much. In my case, it's kind of just the only option that actually fits.
    Last edited by Lady Lioness; 08-14-2022 at 05:08 AM.


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