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Thread: Socionics Subtypes?

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    Default Socionics Subtypes?

    Hi

    So I was thinking about socionics subtypes and I wanted to open a discussion about them

    So

    1- Do you trust subtypes ?

    2- Do you relate to subtypes of types that are different from each other ? ( for example, you are an ESE Si but you relate to IEE Ne too )

    3- whether the answer of the question above is yes or no , why do you think this might happen ( if it happened ) ? does enneagram affect this ?

    That's what I have right now
    Souls know their way back home

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    I don’t generally trust the subtype descriptions, but I can spot someone’s subtype sometimes. With duals- both are good. Opposite subtypes are generally better romantic matches although it doesn’t seem to work out that way in reality. If you have a stronger subtype, you probably feel a little less well-rounded than other people. If you become more well-rounded perhaps you’ll have less of a subtype. I tend to get on with same subtypes better. At work, for instance. But my close IEE friend is IEE-fi. There is some disconnect but at the same time the connection is more magnetic.

    dual- both are good, opposite subtype is more magnetic
    identical type- I may actually prefer opposite subtype
    Activity- prefer same subtype
    semi-dual- for romance I don’t mind either
    illusionary- don’t know
    Kindred- don’t know
    super-ego, probably same but both are ok
    look-a-like- for romance I like sei-fe but the attraction is not straight-forward. Sei-si is ok if they seem a bit like sei-fe. Sei-fe has that magnetic feel I mentioned before
    Conflict- probably same subtype, however I have a strong soft spot for my LSE-si boss
    supervision- depends on the person
    benefit- probably same subtype
    mirror- opposite for romance
    Quasi-identical, maybe opposite (for friendship)
    contrary- both..I have liked an IEE guy before, when I was young, don’t know his subtype, maybe opposite

    I wonder if it’s the same for other people or similar. Perhaps the traditional view of ‘successful type matching’ might actually be based on certain subtypes coming together more often. I’m not sure how to articulate this last point tbh :s

    recently started to think my parents are opposite subtype supervision. SLI-si and ESE-si. These types are both supposed to look like SEIs. This may somewhat explain my strong attachment to particular SEIs.

    I can see that you meant do you relate to different subtypes- as in do you feel similar to them. Sort of..I relate to the different subtypes in different ways
    Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 08-03-2022 at 01:57 PM.

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    World Socionics's Avatar
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    No, they are a pox on socionics. Avoid them.
    Jack Oliver Aaron (ILE)
    Founder of the World Socionics Society

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by World Socionics View Post
    No, they are a pox on socionics. Avoid them.
    You are Normalizing subtype, right?
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    1 Subtypes are found in almost all typology systems. It's an attempt to get a more precise classification of a given type. It's almost necessary in order to keep the system more aligned with reality. At the end of the day, If Type + Subtype of person A are the same as person B, in the paper they would be identical. However in reality there is no guarantee that those two persons would be identicals although they "should" be according to the model. People can be imho similar and vibe exactly the same but the person's life history will always take the bigger space in the psychological room and that's what makes the real uniqueness of an individual. Anyway, the knowledge of your type and subtype is not enough for Socionics to be useful, we must not forget that socionics is not only a typological system (Model A/G) but also a Sociological system i.e. social psychology or group dynamics psychology. Model A seems static but at the socion level and in that context, it is fully dynamic. Do I trust subtypes ? Yes, only when it comes to mushrooms it's better to know their subtypes before eating them !

    2. I relate too much, that's my problem ! I prefer to see the tip of the iceberg at this point ! Temperament do exist and typology is like cutting temperaments and classify each cut by assigning a name to it and placing it in a side of a diagram thus creating a dichotomy and once the point of irreducibility is reached make sense of all the parts by placing them in a given pre-established internally consistent template or Model. Edit : But seriously I relate To H-N and C to a certain degree in DCNH system, I'm a Gen X btw so my "subtypes" have probably evolved or changed or accumulated (?).

    3. see 1.
    Last edited by godslave; 08-03-2022 at 02:25 PM.

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    In a way, the original subtypes (e.g. LIE-Te, LIE-Ni) are a "bastardized" version of the DCNH subtypes that Gulenko uses, but both can only tell so much of the story (why this LIE seems different from this one, despite having the same 'base' function and foundation). But sometimes, people get too carried away with both subtypes systems and can lean on them too heavily to justify a type that's not fitting at all (from the base to the creative and even the PoLR).

    And also, sometimes people take Gulenko's archetypes too seriously and expect to fit every word when being told they are a certain type (e.g. IEI-C), and they also get confused when Gulenko sometimes double types them (e.g. IEI-C-D) because he sees aspects of both subtypes in said person. The descriptions are archetypes, and not meant to be taken 100% literally. They are just your best fit like the "original" subtypes are.

    Can they be useful? Definitely (from the point of view that they can clarify your type, and also give you a 'best fit' socionics type, but not always- but Gulenko himself is another topic for another day), but I still think that a lot of people can and will misconstrue them to be more than they are, and also misunderstand aspects of them (especially DCNH) because of how they are translated, especially in the eyes of non-native English/Ukrainian/Russian speakers.

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    May look like an LSI, but -Te. Metaphor's Avatar
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    Critics of subtype systems say that in practice an emphasis on identifying subtypes draws attention away from the more central task of diagnosing type. Subtypes can be used as a “cop-out” to avoid taking a stance on a person’s type, or for explaining traits and behavior that contradict the basic type the socionist has diagnosed. Critics say that in many cases the basic type has been incorrectly diagnosed, and the addition of a “subtype” simply masks the contradiction. Some socionists think that subtypes are best used to retroactively explain behavior of a person whose type is already known.
    So no, I don't necessarily think it is reliable but might be useful to determine the accuracy of your type instead when it comes to the functional accentuation. And it might be arguable to find the root of cause behind similarities that won't be so useful as to know why.
    Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel: "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."

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    Yes, both subtype systems are useful and although they don't cover all the differences, I find LSI-Ti, LSI-Se, ILE-Ti, ILE-Ne etc., rational, irrational subtype differences easy to detect, especially when I've seen the person in motion and know just like 5 things about them. EIE-Fe and EIE-Ni become super easy to differentiate once you spend time with them and sometimes just from observation from afar... EIE-Ni are much needier, much more assuming especially about things you already know about, less inquisitive, they try to force friendship, their wishes, and their views on ethics on people a lot more until everyone loves them... the more introverted and glacial someone's exterior is and the more serious a person is, the more an EIE-Ni will push towards the person and try to get them to love them; they do anything they can to break through the ice without realizing that the ice will return anyway. And i like subtypes that seem more static, that are analytical/see all the pieces.
    I'm sorry, but I'm psychologically disturbed.


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    I wonder why the two-subtype system seems to be falling in disuse. I also wonder how, as someone learns socionics, doesn't notice it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lavos;[URL="tel:1528782"
    1528782[/URL]]I wonder why the two-subtype system seems to be falling in disuse. I also wonder how, as someone learns socionics, doesn't notice it.
    DCNH is becoming more prominent in discussion because it kind of has its own internal system that can be compared/measured in real-life in some way. Like someone could tell you they’re an SEE-Fi, but that doesn’t really tell you much about what degree they are of the subtype, and it doesn’t really give them a plan for self-development or growth. DCNH, ideally, *does* allow those things (ie. if you’re a Distancing type, you can ‘improve’ yourself by learning to be a bit more like a particular Contacting subtype).

    What a get a bit confused by, thought, is why Gulenko still indirectly mentions the existence of the two-subtype system in the descriptions of the base sociotypes in his DCNH book, yet doesn’t actually make *do* anything with it; he off-handedly mentions them in terms of appearance/interaction. It’s not that the two systems are incompatible, but more that it hasn’t really been given a reason by Gulenko to believe that they’re both important to understanding people.

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    I think we have a soulful connection to our contrary partner with an opposite subtype.

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    Socionics has no "subtypes".

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    LϺαο Not A Communist Shill's Avatar
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    People find it difficult to identify one of the 16 Socionics types in themselves: nevermind in others, nevermind identifying one of 32 or 64 subtypes. Otherwise, I don't object to them more than I object to Socionics generally.

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