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Thread: How do LSEs show romantic interest?

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    Default How do LSEs show romantic interest?

    How do LSEs (especially men) show romantic interest in someone that they have not talked to before or do not know very well? What nonverbal signals do they give? Do they get shy about their feelings?

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    I have an LSE mother and an LSE sister and an LSE grandmother and a few LSE friends, and the short story of their romance is that they observe others until they find someone who meets their criteria for a wife (or husband), and then they propose marriage in terms which are basically issuing an ultimatum.

    Not a lot of romance, as far as I can tell. More like, "I'm building this house, and along with the concrete and 2x4s and windows and doors, it needs a wife. I've decided that you're it, so get on board after the plot acquisition and before the windows are purchased. If you can't meet this schedule, I'll find someone else who can and I'll never ask you again."

    This approach to romance, like every type's particular approach to romance, tends to filter out everyone but a Dual, but it isn't 100% guaranteed to do that. Some types, for reasons either of horrible upbringing or look-a-like-edness (I'm talking to you, IEIs), are attracted to an LSE anyway.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 07-29-2022 at 11:41 AM.

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    Based in my personal experience, if You are interested in one, you can just speak to him and try to be his friend, he won't reject your frienship and this can grow up to a relationship in case he doesn't has put his eyes yet in someone else. In the scenario that he's alredy your friend and you don't know if he has a romantic interest in you, just keep hanging out with him and sooner than later he will decide to confess his feelings for you. They are actually very simple and linear in that regard.

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    I think Gulenko's romance styles are a pretty good reference to look at.

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    I know a LSE who has a high standard for who going to be his wife, and have trusting issue with all the girls he meet. "What if she is a gold digger?" is his common phase. The lack of Ni here is so obvious. He is a succesful businessman but completely suck at personal relationship, as most Te lead are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renna View Post
    I know a LSE who has a high standard for who going to be his wife, and have trusting issue with all the girls he meet. "What if she is a gold digger?" is his common phase. The lack of Ni here is so obvious. He is a succesful businessman but completely suck at personal relationship, as most Te lead are.
    It's more of a gender thing, men don't like it when women only want money from them, just like women don't like it when men only want sex. Even SLEs despite all stereotypes are not such fools to dream about golddigging girlfriend. I recently heard an amazing story about how a wealthy SLE 50+ got married. He calculated how much it would cost him to support the wife and children that his girlfriend dreamed of, and provided her with calculations that convincingly proved to her that marriage was not economically profitable. But what shocked me most of all was that she was not offended at all, but borrowed money, brought it to him and said that she was ready to compensate for these expenses

    As for LSE, they start acting goofy, running around the person they love and looking for a chance to make her life more comfortable. This looks like SEE style, but they do not conquer, but simply try to be around and show their loyalty to be choosen.

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    Thanks for all the responses so far. I read from someone (I believe it was Stratiyevskaya's duality description) that EIIs are the ones who initiate the relationship. I am willing to do it, but only if I see some clear signs of interest first. Gulenko's romance styles are helpful to learn about established dual relations, but does not say much about how the relationships get started to begin with. I have read that SLIs usually place themselves around you and can observe someone they have an interest in for months or even years before deciding to take action, and I am curious if LSEs are the same in that way.

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    Dear EII sisters, you are wonderful women, perhaps, the best out of the whole socion (and you know it, right?). Please don't be gray mice.

    All your duals need is just attention, so try to start by paying attention to their interests, try to find out what they do, what hobbies they have, and how you can help them. Especially because it may turn out that your initial expectations were too bright and in this case you should have the option to change your plans.

    LSEs don't have neither ethics nor intuition and it is hard to them to play the role of gentleman from women's novels, so if you want a love story better than what Adam described above, it's up to you to make your own. All you need is just to be a little bit tricky and a bit more active than a roadside stone. About as much as it takes to pick up a stray dog. Of course, you would like to get everything without doing anything, but unfortunately in this story you choose and you tame this unhappy animal.

    About SLIs, with EIIs they play active role and are 1000 times more active than with IEEs. You just casually talk about the 1% of your beliefs and they're excited as if they've found a treasure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Gabin View Post
    Dear EII sisters, you are wonderful women, perhaps, the best out of the whole socion
    I think making this kind of suggestion is a bit unhelpful.. not only it seems to suggest women of other types aren't as desirable as EII women, it also kind of implies EII men are never 'masculine' enough for society's standards..

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhdn View Post
    I think making this kind of suggestion is a bit unhelpful.. not only it seems to suggest women of other types aren't as desirable as EII women, it also kind of implies EII men are never 'masculine' enough for society's standards..
    Are you sure you are not an ILE?

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    No, I am sure

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    @Kurt Gabin you seem like an LII

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    LSE shows love by doing. They are much better at being useful to the person they like rather than expressing their affections.
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    When they've decided they're interested they can usually be pretty direct about it, as indicated by previous posters. However, them recognizing that they're at the level of liking/appreciation/wanting/etc. that they associate with making a move is another matter. It can take months for them to figure it out, so don't hang all your hopes on them, not before the declaration of love anyway.

    Since LSEs can be a bit touchy about being "pushed around" or the merits of "aggressive" women (aside from some fun maybe), IME the initiating that an EII does is more of bringing the situation to their attention. So, for example, the EII can arrange that they are in close proximity to the LSE during activities. During activities, the EII can accept help from the LSE (where appropriate - LSE's also value a certain amount of effort from the other person). They can also invite conversation, making space for the LSE to dip a toe in exploring feelings (opinions are sometimes as close as an LSE feels comfortable with, especially at first).

    It's in ways like this that the EII "directs" and initiates while also allowing for the Te of the LSE.

    One thing that can really trip up a Te ego is that they can feel pretty unsure about how the other person feels about them. So if they're cautious (if they've been burnt before), even if they like you they might pass. So clear, calm and somewhat regular indications from the EII that the EII actually does like the LSE can go a long way.
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    I will add: do not pine away for an unresponsive LSE. In fact, do not pine away for anyone.
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

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    Minde, that was really helpful, thanks!


    After reading through all the responses here as well as the responses on the thread about how SLIs show interest, I think the particular person who inspired this question is actually an SLI instead of an LSE. He seems quite shy around me, gets nervous around me and his voice even gets shaky. It seems he tries hard to look unemotional and aloof, but always blushes bright red around me. He often makes an effort to be near me or next to me, but will not look at me from close up. Only quick glances, or will look directly but only from a distance. If I start a conversation, he responds well to that and keeps it going. We are both young adults in college. I'm not sure if LSEs (or any extroverted type) would act that way around someone they are interested in. Can LSEs be shy like that? He doesn't seem that shy around other people, more calm and collected. So far he has been very indirect, subtle, but consistently shows interest in those nonverbal ways. It seems he communicates feelings through body language instead of words. Those behaviors seem more typical of an SLI. I feel certain he's Delta ST.

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    @jjd777, I’ve seen LSE’s get very nervous when they think an EII is showing interest, so this might not be the best differentiator.

    To a Te-dom without a lot of experience, having a respectable woman come on to them is like suddenly being in a locked room with a tiger. Those feels are unfamiliar and very scary.

    What might help you tell the two types apart is that an SLI wants to hear someone say to them “I appreciate you.”

    An LSE wants primarily to be respected. “I really respect (that thing - whatever it is that you can honestly say) about you.”

    You could try those phrases out on your friend and see which one turns him into putty in your hands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @jjd777, You could try those phrases out on your friend and see which one turns him into putty in your hands.
    Why check it out? If they like each other, then why complicate..

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    IME if they like you, they ask you out- and just do it in a blunt and manly way? They don't seem to like a lot of Fe fluff or talking through shit, it feels rather blunt and quasi identical-esque to SLE.

    I don't see them being overly warm about much of anything- they aren't ethicals, and LSE males especially I don't see them that way, their 'affection' feels very subdued and more like 'I am the str8 male cowboy manly man that provides for u and took u out on this date' in a very traditional way? LoL I kinda have this stereotype of LSEs being conservative christian Republicans. Very family-valued orientated and down south heterosexual-like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazaam View Post
    IME if they like you, they ask you out- and just do it in a blunt and manly way? They don't seem to like a lot of Fe fluff or talking through shit, it feels rather blunt and quasi identical-esque to SLE.
    I remember hanging out with my LSE-D buddy in a park months ago and we were training and then later some girl joined that I typed as LIE-N. she was involved in a running group with other women and joined us for a while and we all went home together. anyway what I usually do with most women is that I just like to playfully insult them. didn't have like any romantic interest in her but small-talk is just very boring and this way you get to know a bit more about the person. what happened suprised me a bit since out of nowhere my LSE buddy just became a massive simp for her. "you can't talk to her like this, Thomas. She is way more intelligent than both of us". I don't really remember other details that he said but it was pretty cringe to me. he basically treated her like a princess. overall nothing exciting happened otherwise but I was just astonished by his behaviour since he's like 6'2 and quite attractive. felt very out of character to me. made me wonder if caregiver and victim types are the kind of people that donate millions to onlyfans or twitch streamers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alive View Post
    I remember hanging out with my LSE-D buddy in a park months ago and we were training and then later some girl joined that I typed as LIE-N. she was involved in a running group with other women and joined us for a while and we all went home together. anyway what I usually do with most women is that I just like to playfully insult them. didn't have like any romantic interest in her but small-talk is just very boring and this way you get to know a bit more about the person. what happened surprised me a bit since

    out of nowhere my LSE buddy just became a massive simp for her.

    "you can't talk to her like this, Thomas. She is way more intelligent than both of us". I don't really remember other details that he said but it was pretty cringe to me. he basically treated her like a princess. overall nothing exciting happened otherwise but I was just astonished by his behaviour since he's like 6'2 and quite attractive. felt very out of character to me. made me wonder if caregiver and victim types are the kind of people that donate millions to onlyfans or twitch streamers.
    I don't know if this sheds any light on LSE-LIE relations, but I've always thought that my LSE sister was kind of a hard-ass and, while she worked really hard, she never seemed to know where she was going. I never tried to hide my opinion from her, so I assumed that she always either outright hated me or, at least, didn't like me.

    Instead, when we were cleaning out our parents' house prior to selling it, she told me "I wuv you, brother!" Which surprised the hell out of me. Furthermore, she told me that she thought I could fall into a room full of horse shit and come out with a race horse. In other words, that everything I did paid off spectacularly. They don't, but she doesn't know me well enough to know otherwise.

    Maybe it's the Te-bridge of understanidng between us, combined with the way that LSE's view Ni? IDK, for sure.

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    I would guess the two subtypes are very different in this regard. At least some LSE-Si seem to express interest first. Mel Gibson always seemed to have a girlfriend and Mitt Romney seemed to want to marry his wife before they were married. Mel and Mitt were both LSE-Si. LSE-Te are probably out of touch with their feelings, especially the men. LSI and ESI men are probably somewhat more in touch with their feelings and more quick to feel like they deeply love someone, and are made happy by their presence compared to LSE-Te men; i always have been. SLI probably are too. My mom was a Sensing Rational, and she wasn't quick to fall in love easily; unlike me, she's never had a crush on a celebrity, I was surprised at how cold she (and my EIE-Fe dad) are with regards to whether they love a celebrity of someone they've never met with exceptionally good talent and/or appearance. She would admire, but she tended to see things wrong with people and didn't want to put too much trust into people until she had known them for a long time. I'm much more quick to love or hate someone, it happens so quickly that the other person is already saying something before I can tell them I love them or hate them.

    I don't think I'm an LSE, but in the rare cases a beautiful woman tells me she loves me or shows interest in me, I'm pretty receptive to it and happy about it, without ever feeling like I'm ready for a relationship. I'm quite picky about appearance and voice and intellect, about physical features. Throughout my life though, whenever I was in social institutions (at least up until I graduated college, in hospitals, I sometimes let the nurses do their work and figure they wouldn't want me), I showed my affection and sometimes flirted even when objective matters were supposed to dominate the social scene.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @jjd777, I’ve seen LSE’s get very nervous when they think an EII is showing interest, so this might not be the best differentiator.


    To a Te-dom without a lot of experience, having a respectable woman come on to them is like suddenly being in a locked room with a tiger. Those feels are unfamiliar and very scary.
    @Adam Strange - Interesting. It's true that he doesn't have a lot of experience. Actually, he has never dated anyone before (neither have I). He will make an effort to exit the building at the same time as me and will then walk right next to me, glancing over, as if he expects me to start the conversation. And this has happened many times. But he will not start it himself. But we met each other at church and that is where we most often see each other, so maybe he is just trying to be respectful? I could see him as an LSE. I just thought that a key aspect of being an extrovert was a willingness to initiate conversations/interactions. I've seen him walk up and talk to other people, but he will not do it with me. It seems he has the expectation that I should initiate, and that to me is what seems more like an SLI than an LSE. But as you said, maybe that is just due to lack of experience.


    Quote Originally Posted by Shazaam View Post
    IME if they like you, they ask you out- and just do it in a blunt and manly way? They don't seem to like a lot of Fe fluff or talking through shit, it feels rather blunt and quasi identical-esque to SLE.
    @Shazaam, I would have thought LSEs would be able to do that too. But with the guy in my situation, I can't imagine him just walking up to someone and asking them out. He seems way too timid to do that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazaam View Post
    IME if they like you, they ask you out- and just do it in a blunt and manly way? They don't seem to like a lot of Fe fluff or talking through shit, it feels rather blunt and quasi identical-esque to SLE.

    I don't see them being overly warm about much of anything- they aren't ethicals, and LSE males especially I don't see them that way, their 'affection' feels very subdued and more like 'I am the str8 male cowboy manly man that provides for u and took u out on this date' in a very traditional way? LoL I kinda have this stereotype of LSEs being conservative christian Republicans. Very family-valued orientated and down south heterosexual-like.
    I mean, well yea lol.

    Of course all male LSEs are like this, but I'm willing to bet that the majority of guys like this are LSE/SLI and even some LSI.

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    I wonder if SLI would be "braver" bc of Fe PoLR

    also extroverts seem to be shy one on one
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    I think with Te-doms, I think what they appreciate most is someone who sets the tone of rapport. Someone who makes clear how close you two are. Then it becomes that warm fuzzy feeling of "we know each other now." which lets them be comfortable talking to you and not having to figure out where they stand with you...? I'm half guessing here, but just from my observations, they might not have the ability to create that rapport but they appreciate it when they have it with someone, that someone being the person who allowed for it to happen or even initiated it, setting the tone of how close you guys are to each other. I got too close to a married LIE woman once and it seemed to me like she wanted to stay that close, like she had cold hands and was looking for a warm fire.

    I've also been talking to 2 LSE women, older than me, and that also seemed to happen, it's alot of Ne back and forth but that rapport was initially created by me, I made the conversations more personal and funny and involved them in scenarios that would get an emotional response from them and well one of them dmed me and we spoke for hours, while the other one likes to mess with me because she gets a kick out of our back and forths.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jjd777 View Post
    @Adam Strange - Interesting. It's true that he doesn't have a lot of experience. Actually, he has never dated anyone before (neither have I). He will make an effort to exit the building at the same time as me and will then walk right next to me, glancing over, as if he expects me to start the conversation. And this has happened many times. But he will not start it himself. But we met each other at church and that is where we most often see each other, so maybe he is just trying to be respectful? I could see him as an LSE. I just thought that a key aspect of being an extrovert was a willingness to initiate conversations/interactions. I've seen him walk up and talk to other people, but he will not do it with me. It seems he has the expectation that I should initiate, and that to me is what seems more like an SLI than an LSE. But as you said, maybe that is just due to lack of experience.




    @Shazaam, I would have thought LSEs would be able to do that too. But with the guy in my situation, I can't imagine him just walking up to someone and asking them out. He seems way too timid to do that.
    @jjd777, I don't have a good explanation of your friend's behavior, because it's not perfectly consistent with my own experience with LSEs, but I can tell you one thing about myself that might shed some light on his reticence.

    Before I had ever slept with a woman, or even dated, I really, really wanted to have sex with some great girl (not someone whom I'd never introduce to my friends, just for the record) but I was conflicted. My Fi was total shit, you understand. I needed someone who would love me, but I felt totally unprepared for a relationship. Because of this, I was a virgin until I was 25, and the only thing that changed that was an experienced, aggressive LSI who basically pushed things forward.

    I was not going to initiate, because I felt both unprepared for a relationship and unsure if I would commit, because.........

    It's hard to explain how much I, as a Te-dom, needed Fi. I completely felt that, if some woman had sex with me, then I owed her so much for that blessing that I would only be able to repay her by marrying her and being faithful for the REST OF MY LIFE. Since I really didn't understand people, there was no way I could tell if one woman was good for me (or best for me) and another one wasn't. So, I did nothing.

    This might be what is going on with your guy, if he is a Te-dom LSE. Or, it might be something else. It's hard to say.

    I was just lucky that I looked like a great deal to an LSI (better than her previous BF) and she jumped at the chance. As it was, I was a good deal, but not a great deal, and she eventually married someone else, and so did I. But I wasn't smart when I was dating back then. I was leaving the relationship stuff to the woman, along with all of the decisions.

    That could be what your guy is doing. It's possible. In which case, you'll have to decide where things should go, lead him there, and keep him from panicking. Because LSEs have no foresight. That's your job.

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    You have all been so helpful, I really appreciate all of your input.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    I think with Te-doms, I think what they appreciate most is someone who sets the tone of rapport. Someone who makes clear how close you two are. Then it becomes that warm fuzzy feeling of "we know each other now." which lets them be comfortable talking to you and not having to figure out where they stand with you...? I'm half guessing here, but just from my observations, they might not have the ability to create that rapport but they appreciate it when they have it with someone, that someone being the person who allowed for it to happen or even initiated it, setting the tone of how close you guys are to each other. I got too close to a married LIE woman once and it seemed to me like she wanted to stay that close, like she had cold hands and was looking for a warm fire.
    Hmm...I guess I should add that due to my own shyness, I have sometimes seemed uninterested and would sometimes ignore/avoid him when he's around. I'm not outwardly warm, I don't smile often and I can seem very aloof. When I do show clear interest, he reciprocates and then I get kind of scared and increase the distance by seeming more aloof for a little while. Then when I feel more confident again, I will show interest again and it just goes on and on like that. I also don't want to seem overly eager so it probably seems like the interest I show is inconsistent. So I'm sure that hasn't helped and has maybe made him uncertain of how I feel. I hate that I do this, I just get nervous too and that's how I end up acting. I'm also afraid of seeming intrusive, so I try not to talk to him every time I see him just in case.

    I've decided that I will try to be more consistent with showing interest, continue to initiate conversations sometimes (as long as he continues to respond well to them...), and as we get more comfortable around each other, I think it is likely he will start to initiate himself, and maybe then he will ask me out and be more direct like the responses in this thread have said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jjd777 View Post
    You have all been so helpful, I really appreciate all of your input.



    Hmm...I guess I should add that due to my own shyness, I have sometimes seemed uninterested and would sometimes ignore/avoid him when he's around. I'm not outwardly warm, I don't smile often and I can seem very aloof. When I do show clear interest, he reciprocates and then I get kind of scared and increase the distance by seeming more aloof for a little while. Then when I feel more confident again, I will show interest again and it just goes on and on like that. I also don't want to seem overly eager so it probably seems like the interest I show is inconsistent. So I'm sure that hasn't helped and has maybe made him uncertain of how I feel. I hate that I do this, I just get nervous too and that's how I end up acting. I'm also afraid of seeming intrusive, so I try not to talk to him every time I see him just in case.

    I've decided that I will try to be more consistent with showing interest, continue to initiate conversations sometimes (as long as he continues to respond well to them...), and as we get more comfortable around each other, I think it is likely he will start to initiate himself, and maybe then he will ask me out and be more direct like the responses in this thread have said.
    @jjd777, I still think you're going to have to ask him out initially. Even if it's just to grab lunch* after church, I think you're going to have to do it.

    After that, he'll probably realize that you *might* like him, or at least you aren't running away from him, screaming for the police, and after that, he might start asking you out, but I think you're going to have to make the first suggestion.



    *Make it plain to him that "It's just lunch, dude. It's not the rest of your life I'm asking for."

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    Quote Originally Posted by jjd777 View Post
    You have all been so helpful, I really appreciate all of your input.



    Hmm...I guess I should add that due to my own shyness, I have sometimes seemed uninterested and would sometimes ignore/avoid him when he's around. I'm not outwardly warm, I don't smile often and I can seem very aloof. When I do show clear interest, he reciprocates and then I get kind of scared and increase the distance by seeming more aloof for a little while. Then when I feel more confident again, I will show interest again and it just goes on and on like that. I also don't want to seem overly eager so it probably seems like the interest I show is inconsistent. So I'm sure that hasn't helped and has maybe made him uncertain of how I feel. I hate that I do this, I just get nervous too and that's how I end up acting. I'm also afraid of seeming intrusive, so I try not to talk to him every time I see him just in case.

    I've decided that I will try to be more consistent with showing interest, continue to initiate conversations sometimes (as long as he continues to respond well to them...), and as we get more comfortable around each other, I think it is likely he will start to initiate himself, and maybe then he will ask me out and be more direct like the responses in this thread have said.
    I think you need inside jokes and banter with Ne with this guy, especially if he's delta. This makes it less awkward to pick back up a conversation. It doesn't sound like you guys have a routine of talking to each other like friends or something. To make it less personal and about feelings, I'd just approach him with a funny observation you made about either him or the environment, idk like, if he shows up to church with a tucked in shirt for example tease him about looking grandpa-like or something, then next time you see him if it's not tucked him just initiate the conversation by joking about how he's upgraded his fashion sense, this turns your interactions into a "thing", an excuse to talk everytime you see each other now, he might respond back with his own stuff and now you've get a back n forth banter. I'm just spitting balling ideas out here, but keep it light hearted and just let him have a good time around you, and maybe he'd get the hint and the courage.

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    Only using my mom as examples but there is clear contrast in how she treat others and the person she’s interested in atm, i mean everyone treat better the peoples they prefer but with her it’s night and day. She also seem completely oblivious to this. Need to be careful as not mistaken this her FE role cause this contrast it appear too when she want to make a good first impression on someone too but the difference here is that its overdone its not spontaneous you sense the nervousness she want it to end quickly. When she is interested it’s relaxed she try to get to know you she is more spontaneous. Really good indicator she start being playful joking crossing line a bit lol she’s still delta so crossing the line well let’s say that usually she’s very careful but whenever she’s interested in someone she permit her self to be a little more personal with jokes and try to create proximity.

    so fe role all nervous smiles, agree with you for everything trying to get appreciation but dont try to create proximity with you. Just validate me , approve me I’m good like you.

    When interested more relaxed, compassionate less idk superficial with feelings expressing herself . Reveal more about herself and try to know you create proximity . Will not always agree with you but close eyes on thing’s she don’t allow in others and still will be very tactful about disagreements turn it as joke and if she’s interested in you in the first place its cause she saw before hand that you would agree with her and her views so not likely to happen. Also try to treat you good with SI regularly.

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    LSEs can still be kind like that sometimes Adam, but more the Si-subtype. Part of my bias cuz Te polr - but Si is still objectively 'nicer' anyway. Every logical type has at least one ethical function that's at least two dimensional, don't they? Just like if IEIs didn't have 2D Ti we'd turn into ethereal gay wisps and float into outer space and become a campy astrological silhouette of Marshall Applewhite.

    But I like being campy so you know fuck that- and logical types are MEAN and ethical types are STUPID.

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