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Thread: Jung's Esoteric Hı̇tlerism

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    Thumbs down Jung's Esoteric Hı̇tlerism

    Essay On Wotan By Dr. Carl Jung Carl Jung Depth Psychology (carljungdepthpsychologysite.blog)

    You see, Jung was a very respectable psychologist who we should listen to all the time. You see, if you worship Hı̇tler you can be a mystic, not just a womanly mystic like those Dionysis worshippers (Nietzsche doesn't count, he was just mad at Wagner) but a manly mystic, which can only be German and non-Germans can never understand, because they don't worship Hı̇tler. So heil Adi, only Germans have souls, until the britbongs come with money, then they get souls too and Wotan the Dionysian God of Germany (except Dionysis is lame and Fritz was a cuck so oops) is actually just the Devil, I mean the Shadow, because the Shadows is a good guy who just wants us to pathei mathos by making it stinky, but also it's the Devil, and Adi Hı̇tler. But you're still a cuck, Fritz. Christianity sounds good and I'm glad we had Christianity here for centuries to be our lame-punk Mediterrean wuss Zeus and save us gently and comprehenisbly, but being possessed by evil Hı̇tler god who isn't womanly and a cuck like Fritz Nietzsche and who you totally can't understand sounds better. Praise the Aryan Sun.

    In Bulgaria putting your thumb down means you agree. Oops, they're not German so they can't understand how cool Hı̇tler is for breaking our rational minds out of their lame nerdness by making us crazy. Sorry.

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    My favorite thing written by Jung was about the mind of the primitive African bushman who snapped the neck of his young child, because the child was happy to see him return home. But he was frustrated because his day of trying to catch fish was fruitless, and in a fit of blind rage, murdered his own son. His regret afterwards was palpable, like he could not have foreseen the consequences of his actions with his simplistic, animal mind. Good old European racism!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Capitalist Pig View Post
    My favorite thing written by Jung was about the mind of the primitive African bushman who snapped the neck of his young child, because the child was happy to see him return home. But he was frustrated because his day of trying to catch fish was fruitless, and in a fit of blind rage, murdered his own son. His regret afterwards was palpable, like he could not have foreseen the consequences of his actions with his simplistic, animal mind. Good old European racism!
    Not all Europeans are racist like that! But, all people who are racist like that are probably European. Based on what I have read, all European racism comes from European Antisemitism, which comes from European anti-Judaism. Anti-Judaism is common and ethnic stereotyping is common, but particularly European racism is not. Just people say "only whites are racist and all whites are racist!" which misses the point entirely. Aside from not being true (the issue is not whiteness and not all whites are racist,) racism can genuinely be considered to be much broader than the particular attitudes which came out of Europe. And other non-white, non-European countries might be emulating them more now too anyways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Capitalist Pig View Post
    My favorite thing written by Jung was about the mind of the primitive African bushman who snapped the neck of his young child, because the child was happy to see him return home. But he was frustrated because his day of trying to catch fish was fruitless, and in a fit of blind rage, murdered his own son. His regret afterwards was palpable, like he could not have foreseen the consequences of his actions with his simplistic, animal mind. Good old European racism!
    How is that racist? That was obviously a very primitive way to act.

    It's obvious that some cultures are more primitive than others. It's not about skin color. It's well known for example that the Finnish culture / mind is more primitive than scandinavian or central European. Some peoples simply have a longer history of cultural development while in some places in Africa people have been living in the stone age until recently.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    I'm gonna call the NAACP on this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    How is that racist? That was obviously a very primitive way to act.

    It's obvious that some cultures are more primitive than others. It's not about skin color. It's well known for example that the Finnish culture / mind is more primitive than scandinavian or central European. Some peoples simply have a longer history of cultural development while in some places in Africa people have been living in the stone age until recently.
    That is a primitive way to act, but no different than how many rednecks would act in the same situation. Calling out the African bushman in particular as if only Africans would ever be like that is the racist part.

    Anyways, many parts of Africa have been historically much more advanced than most of Europe. You think I would rather live in France or Britain in Europe in the Middle Ages than Egypt or Lebanon in Africa? Even in antiquity the Britons were mostly living in mud huts while Egyptians were building the pyramids. God forbid the white racial consciousness sends us back to the age of mud huts, I'll have to move to Egypt... or racial consciousness is not a thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coeruleum Blue View Post
    That is a primitive way to act, but no different than how many rednecks would act in the same situation. Calling out the African bushman in particular as if only Africans would ever be like that is the racist part.
    Yes, "rednecks" are relatively primitive in American society, I would assume. All societies have a lower layer of people who are on a much more primitive level than the average man or the elite. Jung mentions this also in his writings, although he doesn't use the word "redneck". So I see no reason to label Jung a racist. Especially since I've read quite a lot of what he says about indigenous peoples and he seems to have a lot of understanding and respect for them. Jung is advanced psychology and it's kindof lame to try to force labels on him like that. It's better to read more and try to learn something instead.

    But, rednecks are still part of the western civilization, they went to school, their ancestors came maybe from Europe. So if we want to give an example of a primitive person, I'd say it's better to do what Jung did, and talk about people who have no ties to modern civilization and are more close to the indigenous lifestyle.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Yes, "rednecks" are relatively primitive in American society, I would assume. All societies have a lower layer of people who are on a much more primitive level than the average man or the elite. Jung mentions this also in his writings, although he doesn't use the word "redneck". So I see no reason to label Jung a racist. Especially since I've read quite a lot of what he says about indigenous peoples and he seems to have a lot of understanding and respect for them. Jung is advanced psychology and it's kindof lame to try to force labels on him like that. It's better to read more and try to learn something instead.

    But, rednecks are still part of the western civilization, they went to school, their ancestors came maybe from Europe. So if we want to give an example of a primitive person, I'd say it's better to do what Jung did, and talk about people who have no ties to modern civilization and are more close to the indigenous lifestyle.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYY3SWU7QZk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    A pristine example of the white racial consciousness! Or, at least what happens to people who act like white racial consciousness is a thing!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coeruleum Blue View Post
    That is a primitive way to act, but no different than how many rednecks would act in the same situation. Calling out the African bushman in particular as if only Africans would ever be like that is the racist part.
    Implying Jung actually did that.

    Even if that mention of the bushman is indeed a paraphrase of something Jung wrote, it was most likely taken out of its context. And even on its own, it doesn't state that only African bushmen would do that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    That drunk guy's speech is more coherent than the OP.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coeruleum Blue View Post
    You think I would rather live in France or Britain in Europe in the Middle Ages than Egypt or Lebanon in Africa?
    Why, when coming up with these examples, did you feel the need to choose Egypt, the most atypical and indeed only major civilization in Africa for centuries, and the Levantine (read: not African) Phoenicia? Neither Tyre nor Thebes played host to any bushmen. I realize not everybody is as well-read on Sub-Saharan history as you likely are, but some more relevant examples would have been a better choice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudo View Post
    Why, when coming up with these examples, did you feel the need to choose Egypt, the most atypical and indeed only major civilization in Africa for centuries, and the Levantine (read: not African) Phoenicia? Neither Tyre nor Thebes played host to any bushmen. I realize not everybody is as well-read on Sub-Saharan history as you likely are, but some more relevant examples would have been a better choice.
    While I'm no expert in Sub-Saharan Africa, most people from Ghana and Nigeria I've met seem fine, and for all people badmouth Somalia, it manages to look a lot less poor than Ethiopia historically, of course it's a war zone now though.

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    The "point" of Jung's project is the importance of a mystic racial consciousness. I don't know that the kinds of things he writes here are particularly esoteric by Jung's standards. They seem in line with what he writes elsewhere.

    Otto Rank's Beyond Psychology is a very insightful work which deals with the sources of mass movements like Nazism in a much more balanced manner (i.e. not "explaining" them as possession by a god), and also touches on the biases that have influenced Jung, Freud, Adler, and other psychologists. It's great; more people should read it.

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    Augusta was studying how relationship formed within Soviet collective housing. She needed a way to classify the different types of relationships that existed.

    She used Carl Jung's typology out of convenience, because it was the most modern psychology that she could access behind the iron curtain, and combined it with the work of other Soviet psychologists. She was lucky to even have Carl Jung. Marxist sociology emphasized that family well-being was a by-product of material causes, not due to abstract interpersonal differences, and psychoanalysis was consequently banned by Stalin for being a 'bourgeois' science. The Baltic states, OTOH, had a longer time to import Western books before they were absorbed by the Soviet Union (in 1940).

    If free speech had been allowed in the Soviet Union, Socionics might have looked very different, closer to what Western psychologists were studying at the time, and not very unique.
    Last edited by xerx; 07-27-2022 at 03:21 AM. Reason: a few words

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    Quote Originally Posted by Capitalist Pig View Post
    My favorite thing written by Jung was about the mind of the primitive African bushman who snapped the neck of his young child, because the child was happy to see him return home. But he was frustrated because his day of trying to catch fish was fruitless, and in a fit of blind rage, murdered his own son. His regret afterwards was palpable, like he could not have foreseen the consequences of his actions with his simplistic, animal mind. Good old European racism!
    https://youtu.be/6KfAJ1CS4LI

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudo View Post
    Why, when coming up with these examples, did you feel the need to choose Egypt, the most atypical and indeed only major civilization in Africa for centuries, and the Levantine (read: not African) Phoenicia? Neither Tyre nor Thebes played host to any bushmen. I realize not everybody is as well-read on Sub-Saharan history as you likely are, but some more relevant examples would have been a better choice.
    North africans are mixed although majoritarily caucasoid, and it's safe to assume original coastal north africans and levantines were EAF & EEF caucasoids. Why are you two talking about egypt and the levant when mentioning sub saharan africa?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    The "point" of Jung's project is the importance of a mystic racial consciousness. I don't know that the kinds of things he writes here are particularly esoteric by Jung's standards. They seem in line with what he writes elsewhere.

    Otto Rank's Beyond Psychology is a very insightful work which deals with the sources of mass movements like Nazism in a much more balanced manner (i.e. not "explaining" them as possession by a god), and also touches on the biases that have influenced Jung, Freud, Adler, and other psychologists. It's great; more people should read it.
    It's not esoteric for Jung, because for Jung everything was esoteric, but it's what I would consider to be in-line with what others have developed as the doctrine of esoteric Hı̇tlerism.

    Quote Originally Posted by RBRS View Post
    North africans are mixed although majoritarily caucasoid, and it's safe to assume original coastal north africans and levantines were EAF & EEF caucasoids. Why are you two talking about egypt and the levant when mentioning sub saharan africa?
    I've been running out of things to read about lately, might as well go learn more about sub-Saharan Africa. I highly doubt it's all bushmen, in fact, I know it isn't. Ethiopia and Somalia are popular political topics of discussion among people who like talking politics and both of them look highly-developed, and were possibly better than Europe during the Dark Ages, though not as good as the really stand-out regions. I will have to research though.

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    Not medieval, but this is Somalia in 1936. I have heard before that the destruction of sub-Saharan Africa's industries is fairly recent as well but never looked that closely into the actual history and specific causes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coeruleum Blue View Post


    Not medieval, but this is Somalia in 1936. I have heard before that the destruction of sub-Saharan Africa's industries is fairly recent as well but never looked that closely into the actual history and specific causes.
    That is a picture of Italian Somalia, when the city was being ground under the boot of Italian imperialism.

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    Here's a more modern Mogadishu (after independence), same downtown location.






    And while we're here, here are pictures of Afghanistan from before the Soviet-American proxy war. You can see pictures of a country that was beginning to build modern infrastructure, girls going to school and freely mingling with boys, and people driving imported cars.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/asto...l-kabul-2013-2


    At one point, both Somalia and Afghanistan were among the most progressive countries in the Muslim world.

    War is stupid.

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    @xerx War is not stupid. It actually is a rational, properly calculated action with a goal in mind. How the elites justify war to the boomer hylic masses is actually stupid, but hylic boomers are mentally incapable themselves, you gotta adapt your marketing to it's target.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RBRS View Post
    @xerx War is not stupid. It actually is a rational, properly calculated action with a goal in mind. How the elites justify war to the boomer hylic masses is actually stupid, but hylic boomers are mentally incapable themselves, you gotta adapt your marketing to it's target.
    Wars of aggression are stupid. Fighting against an aggressor is not stupid. However, every war seems to have an aggressor. Ergo, war is stupid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RBRS View Post
    @xerx War is not stupid. It actually is a rational, properly calculated action with a goal in mind. How the elites justify war to the boomer hylic masses is actually stupid, but hylic boomers are mentally incapable themselves, you gotta adapt your marketing to it's target.
    What are hylic boomers?

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    What are hylic boomers?
    RBRS is referring to many boomers as being hylics from Gnosticism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    Somatics [hylics] were human in form, but since their entire focus was on the material world, such as eating, sleeping, mating or creature comforts, they were seen as doomed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coeruleum Blue View Post
    RBRS is referring to many boomers as being hylics from Gnosticism.
    Not that I'm particularly attracted to gnosticism, but the description fits the bill for most of the population.

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    The rush to defend Jung's racism without doing any research on the matter...tsk tsk tsk

    Jung, like many White psychologists of his day, had an unfortunate attachment to a hierarchical theory of consciousness—the false belief that certain races of people are more or less evolved in their thinking, cultures, or habits than others, with so-called “primitives” at one end of the spectrum and “civilized” peoples at the other. As the British Psychotherapy Foundation puts it:


    “Although Jung’s overall approach was symbolic, his thinking becomes racist when he equates primitive states of mind (unconscious process) with so-called ‘primitive’ people, seeing the psyches of black people as less developed and inferior to those of white people.”


    An examination of Jung’s letters, research notes, and other documents reveals that this bias had a big impact on the development of archetypal theory. Because Jung believed that his Black interview subjects were inherently less intelligent and sophisticated than their White counterparts, he felt justified in applying a completely different research methodology to them.


    Specifically, when working with Black subjects, he gathered less data, and interpreted it more loosely, than he might have otherwise.
    It's easy enough to write this off as Jung being a product of his time that there was a racist attitude prevalent in most Europeans at the time. It's another to ignore it completely.

    In early childhood we are unconscious ... consciousness is the pro-duct of the unconscious. It is a
    condition which demands a violent effort. You get tired from being conscious. It is a most unnatural ef-
    fort. When you observe primitives, for instance, you will see that on the slightest provocation or on no
    provocation whatever they doze off, they disappear. They sit for hours on end, and when you ask them:
    'What are you doing? What are you thinking?', they are offended because they say: 'Only a man that is
    crazy thinks he has thoughts in his head. We do not think.' If they think at all, it is rather in the belly or
    in the heart ... They are just about in the Homeric age... when the diaphragm was the seat of psychic
    activity ... abstract thought does not exist for them.
    ‘There is a much better hypothesis to explain the peculiarities of the American temperament. It is the fact
    that the states are pervaded by the Negro, that most striking and suggestive figure. Some states are
    particularly black, a fact that may astonish the naive European, who thinks of America as a white nation.
    It is not wholly white, if you please, but piebald. It cannot be helped, it just is so.
    What is more contagious than to live side by side with a rather primitive people? Go to Africa and see
    what happens. When it is so obvious that you stumble over it, you call it going black. But when it is not
    so obvious it is explained as 'the sun'... It is much easier for us Europeans to be a trifle immoral, or at
    least a bit, because we do not have to maintain the moral standard against the heavy downward pull of
    primitive life. The inferior man has a tremendous pull because he fascinates the inferior layers of our

    psyche, which has liv-ed through untold ages of similar conditions ... He reminds us not so much of our
    conscious as our unconscious mind - not only of childhood but of prehistory, which would take us back
    not more than about twelve hundred years so far as the Germanic races are concern-ed
    You can find it all here: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/240711703_The_racism_of_Jung

    You can tell he lived with a certain sense of racial superiority over other people in the world. That the European was the most civilized and developed race in the world, he conveniently being a member of the European race, but I'm sure that is neither here nor there.

    Let's not bury our heads in the sand and canonize historical figures as saints who do no wrong.
    The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyoneor, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.

    The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".

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    @EUDAEMONIUM Great post! "The bushman is primitive" only sounds bad if you've read enough Jung to know the context, because strictly-speaking, bushmen really are primitive. You have to have read Jung like I have to know that he's using that to generalize about all Africans and non-white people in general, rather than simply calling a group that really is primitive, primitive (as are many white European groups like rednecks and seemingly most people in Balkan states that are not Greece or Turkey.) And just because I've read Jung doesn't mean I can write an entire essay quickly.

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    For whatever reason the memory of Jung I have that stands out the most to me is him pontificating on something whilst a piece of his hair is sticking straight up in the background- and it's very noticeable to other people (at least to me?) but he's rather blissfully unaware or unconcerned about this and just keeps on mentally masturbating with the piece of hair sticking up.

    Jung is the Idea of Cowlick.

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