LIE/SEE Activity Relationships

[ENJoymENT]

1530044[/URL]"]1530044[/URL]"]1530044[/URL]]to me it feels often like the lust is there, but the "love" isn’t

Perhaps in the beginning… but ultimately there is something just so intoxicatingly validating when one is in a relationship with someone so completely different from you, yet nonetheless understands and cares for you. Over time, when this vastly different human being has your back and provides support during your weakest and worst moments…that definitely does lead to deep love. In my case personally, I came into LIE/SEE Activity from an Extinguishment relationship—with a wonderful, yet at times infuriating LII. When I express something that REALLY matters to me, the SEE will listen and we often come to the realization that we feel the same way—likely due to shared quadra values. He then very easily provides me with emotional validation, and in fact will often pick up the mantle for me—passionately taking action (Se) in my place, which also then spares me from the trauma of having to continue to display these embarrassing emotions (Fi) myself. Similarly, I enjoy taking over the tasks where SEE is getting frustrated – such as wading through the red tape involved in replacing a damaged passport in time for our next trip (Ni), or else resolving a problem with an incompetent customer service person over the phone (Te). Over time, this support is mutually beneficial and certainly enables both to become more successful at the details in life on an expanded scale.

A funny aside…the personalized ringtone for when my LII ex-husband calls/texts me is the sound of crickets…because that was the standard response I used to get from him (even though I was initially drawn to his calm certitude—possibly mistaking it for ESI Fi?). As a Gamma NT, I was unbelievably independent in my marriage and very rarely asked him for help—thinking that that might be the key to getting a response from him—as surely I didn’t abuse it. But no…still crickets. Even employing my Ni by thinking several steps ahead in order to check-mate him into doing something (in this instance, I had said I would watch his brother’s child for the summer ONLY if I didn’t have to drive our 5 kids 3 hours and across the border to pick him up from the airport). But still no… a day before nephew’s flight, LII called from a work trip in a different city and calmly stated that unfortunately he couldn’t get back and I would have to pick him up (I guess that was a double check-mate on the LII’s part). Now with SEE, if I voice that I’m even SLIGHTLY annoyed with something, I can hear banging around downstairs where SEE is trying to rearrange things and fix it. And so now I make sure I don’t ask for or mention anything, because I don’t want him to be catering to me. In fact we often bicker about who GETS to do an undesirable task for the other person, or who gets to pay, or take the worse parking spot etc.

the ethical would have to stop putting on rose colored classes and putting the person on a pedastal, and the LIE would have to stop being a condescending and pretentious asshole and stop using words like 'whom' in the year 2022 - but I wouldn't hold my breath. but that's the thing, ESIs are turned on when people talk pretentious like that, SEEs are only half-way turned on.

LOL you might have a point there. But SEE humours me, and is definitely not intimidated by grammar. We very much like to poke fun at one another—embracing our caricatures in turn—making a mockery by exaggerating our differences. This then actually frees us to laugh at, and then discard them in favour of becoming more multidimensional.

I wish I could see this pair in real life. I think I’ve seen some friendships but never romantic relationships. I imagine it would be among the more turbulent ones, as both types are full of passion.

Yeah it is pretty crazy…but not dull certainly. Everything is a competition. A day at the beach involves frisbee, badminton, bocce, cornhole, we love cards. And in many things— it’s pretty even. With the sporting activities though I don’t stand a chance—he plays hockey and baseball in a league. Yesterday we were playing badminton and laughing so hard when the other person did something embarrassing like got hit in the head or did a ballet kick while failing to make the shot etc. But we’ve learned to laugh at ourselves because it is hilarious to revel in the failures of these two seriously competitive people. In the middle of the game, I walked over to him holding my stomach from laughing and said “did you realize how many times one of us COULD’VE competitively smashed the birdie down on the other to be mean…but we DIDN’T.” He smiled back with such joy—I think because it acknowledged his athletic prowess, while praising us both (though mostly him) for setting his competitiveness aside so that we can have fun/chill together. One thing we like to do is to act very competitive but in a joking way – where we can get it out of our systems, but we know better than to actually “go there” for the good of our relationship. For instance if I have a good hand in cards I might slam it down and say “I’m gon fuck you up!” just to release that competitiveness… but it’s said in a mocking way just to up the ante and intensity of the situation. There’s a lot of faux trash talk. After sex LIE: “Wow…the gloves came off there!” SEE: “I ain’t doing no rope-a-dope!” LIE: spews out in laughter at the boxing metaphor (SEE used to box in teen years). SEE: “Ain’t no one HERE playing possum!” LIE: “I’m grabbing another round of drinks!”

I think this pairing makes an unconventional couple. My first LTR was with SEE from age 16-20. We would go to parties in Toronto dressed up alike in black jeans, red shirt, black leather jacket. We would spend so much time making inside jokes about everything and everyone… I think it used to alienate people who would shake their heads and walk away because we would just always be laughing about the silliest things. It’s the same with my current relationship, a funky song will come on while driving and I will pulse my shoulder up and down and look challengingly at him, brow raised. He’ll roll his eyes, but then submit to the joy and start pulsing his shoulder. I think we get a kick out of the other person making a fool out of themselves for us. It is intense but it’s big, and I’m guessing some other intertype relationship might seem dull in comparison. I’m not into opioids, but I’m guessing it could be explained this way: after you’ve had OXY, it would be hard to go back to aspirin.

[ENJoymENT]

1529940[/URL]]Even with ILI, their Dual, they are flaky like that. Out and about, SEE pretty much ignore their dual. Yes, their personal dual. It's documented in some article (which I can't find right now.)

Personal examples:

Last year (2021) we went to see The Black Crows in concert. A guy he knows decided to attend, but didn't have a seat like we did. I ended up sitting alone for the entire opening act and the beginning of the main act. My concert buddy my hubby SEE just had to go talk to him for over an hour, leaving me in a crowd all alone. <--- that is typical.

In 2013 we were at a venue, before a concert, he was sitting down in an area that had a dance floor below it and nobody dancing, but the seating area was higher, up a step and two or three.
So I was looking at something and then went across the floor to get to him and tripped and fell nearly on my face. What did he do? "Lalalalala." In his own ditsy head. Some other guy ran to me and said "Are you OK?!!" as he helped me up. I was so grateful for that guy, but my hubby, I was seething at him.

I seem invisible to him and he's no dashing knight in armor. I don't really want one, but I would appreciate a bit more attention out and about. Those are his blonde moments. (Something to call it at least.)

Semi-Dual SLE seems much more attentive, IMO. I didn't know any SLE as far as I can tell looking back, until my 3rd child, and he is a great conversationalist and likes a lot of things I do, and I really appreciate SLE's. If if if if, I had to have another partner I think I'd try to find a SLE. Another SEE would just be too much.

I fully understand what you are saying. We were in a town 3 hours away when an old hockey friend came up to talk to SEE. A few hours later we were checking into our hotel and then someone walking across the lobby who he knew from ball tournaments came up to talk to him. Even when we went to the tiny island of Kawaii and were eating breakfast, a bunch of people came up to us who knew him. I think it’s par for the course because they have such a large circle of friends and acquaintances. They like their sports and activities, and that causes them to meet a lot of different people. And because they are not wallflowers, people remember them.

Yes I’ve been left sitting alone at hockey games and on dates so he can do the social circuit, etc. In the past, I would often just sit back and allow him to “dig his own grave” within our relationship, and then later point out how he was not being a good partner. However this was not very productive, and I know he wasn’t intentionally trying to snub or diss me. So we talked a lot about that stuff, and the solution for us is for me to tell him to go out on his own as much as he wants, and get as much socializing out of his system as he would like—ON HIS OWN TIME. But if he goes to a hockey game, a restaurant, bar or date with me, then he should feel free to say hello to anyone he likes, but immediately tell them he’ll give them a call to do something with them another night. When he gets distracted and abandons you, it is not bothering HIM, it is only bothering you….BUT it will end up bothering him when he ends up with a shitty relationship or a partner who is not happy being in a relationship with him. Therefore it’s in both of your interests to have an agreement in place that will work for both. In fact it will likely be a relief for him to have some boundaries in place to cut out some of the distraction that is pulling him in multiple directions. And if he knows that all he has to say is “great to see you man I’ll give you a call later this week, because it’s date night with my wife”. Then it’s win win win. You can even encourage him to follow up and give them a call and to set up something with them, TOMORROW.

1529905[/URL]]@Pink Bear, this is a very perceptive observation.

I've interacted with two SEE females at length, and my complaint is that it is impossible to get their undivided attention. They are paying attention to you, and to him, and to her, and to that guy over there, and they are hopping around so much that it's a wonder that they get anything done.

I felt like I was just passing by in their world, no matter how long I had been talking to them.

They can focus their attention on you and smile and -wow, the sun just came out- and then their gaze slides away and they suddenly see their new best friend behind you and they just have to talk to them, and this lasts for thirty seconds and then they see their next best friend over across the way and they just have to talk to them, and you're left wondering if this is how they are with every interpersonal interaction? (I believe it is.)

That has zero appeal to me. I need to know that there is someone there who is rock solid in the relationship. I expect my SO to have lots of friends and family members whom she's devoted to, but there should be only one SO.

Yes the sun comes out when they focus their attention on you. But rather than perceiving the fact that they also spread their light around to others to be a rejection of you, it can perhaps be seen as them exercising their strengths. If you spent time reading up on stuff for work, looking into some investments, and engaging in other Te stuff, no partner would ever think that you are rejecting them by doing those things. It’s just the fact that SEE’s gifts involve interacting with other people, so therefore they unfortunately can’t engage in their strengths without their partners often feeling jealous. In contrast, I don’t think many would be jealous of LIEs engaging in some of their Te pursuits apart from their partner. I also think that when SEEs engage in these continuous and distractive social interactions, it’s almost like they are in a fugue state…just merely reacting as if playing whack-a-mole. There is no sinister underlying motive—such as making others jealous or playing intentional head games, they are merely in the moment.

I have been in LTRs with 2 different SEEs, and I have never worried about infidelity with either one of them. They have an underlying innocence to them, and—dare I say—even a domestic side. I think the fact that they are so distracted socially is because they have a soft heart for everyone. Because of their weak Ni, they are not out to hurt their partner as part of some scheme. I also find them to be very loyal. If something is important to you, you have to have the courage to lay your insecurities bare and ask if the two of you can come to a strategy for dealing with things that are bothersome or hurtful. While I do agree that it can sometimes be annoying when you are out at a social function with them, that is only a small portion of life, and I truly believe SEEs are very capable of being rocksolid in a relationship. I wouldn’t let this issue of their scattered attention in public be the cause of settling for gray skies, when you could be enjoying the sun‘s glorious rays the rest of the time.

[Danimage]

@Pink Bear Omg this! He always wanted me to reassure him i was going to be there for him, but i couldn't because i disliked that he needed that, even if i loved him, why did i have to promise him anything? He should have trusted that i had real feelings for him

In my pov he had too much fear, i didn't know it was that he wanted me to be all in.

Yes, i think i didn't have enough Fi for him. Same as him being too impulsive for my taste

[Danimage]

@Pink Bear, this is a very perceptive observation.

I've interacted with two SEE females at length, and my complaint is that it is impossible to get their undivided attention. They are paying attention to you, and to him, and to her, and to that guy over there, and they are hopping around so much that it's a wonder that they get anything done.

I felt like I was just passing by in their world, no matter how long I had been talking to them.

They can focus their attention on you and smile and -wow, the sun just came out- and then their gaze slides away and they suddenly see their new best friend behind you and they just have to talk to them, and this lasts for thirty seconds and then they see their next best friend over across the way and they just have to talk to them, and you're left wondering if this is how they are with every interpersonal interaction? (I believe it is.)

That has zero appeal to me. I need to know that there is someone there who is rock solid in the relationship. I expect my SO to have lots of friends and family members whom she's devoted to, but there should be only one SO.

It's like this for me, but since we still have a favorite person why bother if we give attention to others too? In my pov everyone has something that they can give me, in different ways and a single person can't fullfill everything

[Adam Strange]

It's like this for me, but since we still have a favorite person why bother if we give attention to others too? In my pov everyone has something that they can give me, in different ways and a single person can't fullfill everything

Yes, @Danimage, I think that ILIs have more faith in their subjective assessments than LIEs do.

I know a lot of ILIs, and they are usually absolutely certain that they are right, even when they aren't. Lol.
What happens when they discover that they were totally wrong is that they will re-frame the problem so that they were actually right all along.

[Nightmare]

It's like this for me, but since we still have a favorite person why bother if we give attention to others too? In my pov everyone has something that they can give me, in different ways and a single person can't fullfill everything

While I agree with you, in my case, I'm always wanting that "one best friend" who can fulfill most if not all of it, and if they can't, the relationship just feels....incomplete/inadequate/lacking to me. I only need that from one person, my most intimate. Everyone else—yes, what you said 100%.

[crazymaisy]

Yes, @Danimage, I think that ILIs have more faith in their subjective assessments than LIEs do.

I know a lot of ILIs, and they are usually absolutely certain that they are right, even when they aren't. Lol.
What happens when they discover that they were totally wrong is that they will re-frame the problem so that they were actually right all along.

Absolutely right until more information comes to light, then absolutely right again!

[Danimage]

How does the recontextualization work?

[Averroes]

SEE Sx/So rapping about his one sided friendship with an LIE Sp/So

[Adam Strange]

How does the recontextualization work?

ILI is asked to use computational fluid dynamics to design a stronger, more efficient propeller for an existing airplane.

ILI uses brain magic to design the propeller and produces charts and graphs showing that his new propeller is better than anything yet achieved.
Propeller is built and installed and breaks the crankshaft on startup and the pistons come out the side of the fuselage.

Everyone is standing there, looking at the scrap heap that had been an airplane just a few minutes ago.

ILI says that his calculations were perfect and it all would have worked if the engine had been stronger. (Had been a different engine, essentially.)

[Adam Strange]

How does the recontextualization work?

ILI is asked to design a filter carousel for a spy satellite which will enable the satellite’s optics to make spectral measurements on the barely-resolved targets, which will be used to produce characteristic signatures of targets to determine friend or foe.

The carousel is built and installed in the satellite at great expense. All images are now out of focus.

ILI says that his design worked perfectly and just needs some software processing to see everything.

[Adam Strange]

ILI is asked to redesign the piezoelectric actuators of a high power fiber laser to increase the range over which the laser beam can be directed.

ILI does calculations, produces charts and graphs which show that the range of motion of his new piezoelectric actuators is increased by a factor of three, which is amazing.

The new actuators are built and the high energy laser weapon is disassembled over several weeks to allow the installation of the new actuators.

After reassembly, the laser is turned on and the beam is told to track a target.
It doesn’t move.

ILI realizes that the actuators attach to a mass, and greater motion means less force. The actuators are now too weak to move the beam.

ILI flees the room, saying something about his design being perfect but the mass was too great.

[Adam Strange]

The common pattern is that the ILI can dive deeper into a subject and can improve it beyond the present state of the art, but often fails to account for the fact that his new design has to work with the rest of the world.

There is also a dangerous reliance on mathematical modeling while simultaneously ignoring real-world testing. Ni >>> Se.

[Danimage]

The common pattern is that the ILI can dive deeper into a subject and can improve it beyond the present state of the art, but often fails to account for the fact that his new design has to work with the rest of the world.

There is also a dangerous reliance on mathematical modeling while simultaneously ignoring real-world testing. Ni >>> Se.

Oh... do they really do that? I never met one.
Isn't there the potential to waste so much time by working like that?

[Adam Strange]

Oh... do they really do that? I never met one.
Isn't there the potential to waste so much time by working like that?

Yes, but "Time" is what an Ni-dom ILI has in abundance. Real-world "Se" experiments are to be avoided, because they can go soooooooo wrong.

[Danimage]

Yes, but "Time" is what an Ni-dom ILI has in abundance. Real-world "Se" experiments are to be avoided, because they can go soooooooo wrong.

That's so interesting. I always feel like i don't have enough time while i constanly experiment new methods in the real world to test them out and see if they work realistically. I need to learn more about socionics, it's funny how it applies so precisely.

[get R]

https://www.eonline.com/news/420968/...her-to-call-me

[Adam Strange]

Another ILI story:

My next door neighbor is an ILI economist working at the University of Michigan, so he basically teaches people how to think about spending money in the future.

Yesterday, I noticed he had a few workmen in his front yard, so I went out to ask what was going on?

He said that his bedroom ceiling had collapsed because of a leak in his roof. His severely deteriorated shingles let water in and the plaster got saturated, and the added weight and the softened plaster let the whole thing sag through the nails and collapse onto the floor. Evidently, he wasn't in the room at the time, because he was talking to me at that moment.

I told him that I'd seen that his shingles had been in need of replacement for at least five years. Anyone who actually LOOKED AT THE ROOF could see that.

But I guess he missed that.

His chimney also needs repointing or it's the next thing that's coming through his roof, and he needs to have that hollow tree next to my house taken down, too, before it falls on my house, while he's thinking about spending money in the future.


The guy is divorced and has an LSI GF who got him to paint his house purple, so now he has a purple house and a collapsed bedroom ceiling and he has to take care of her big dog whenever she goes out of town. Let me ask you something. Would an SEE GF have been a worse choice?

[crazymaisy]

Another ILI story:

My next door neighbor is an ILI economist working at the University of Michigan, so he basically teaches people how to think about spending money in the future.

Yesterday, I noticed he had a few workmen in his front yard, so I went out to ask what was going on?

He said that his bedroom ceiling had collapsed because of a leak in his roof. His severely deteriorated shingles let water in and the plaster got saturated, and the added weight and the softened plaster let the whole thing sag through the nails and collapse onto the floor. Evidently, he wasn't in the room at the time, because he was talking to me at that moment.

I told him that I'd seen that his shingles had been in need of replacement for at least five years. Anyone who actually LOOKED AT THE ROOF could see that.

But I guess he missed that.

His chimney also needs repointing or it's the next thing that's coming through his roof, and he needs to have that hollow tree next to my house taken down, too, before it falls on my house, while he's thinking about spending money in the future.


The guy is divorced and has an LSI GF who got him to paint his house purple, so now he has a purple house and a collapsed bedroom ceiling and he has to take care of her big dog whenever she goes out of town. Let me ask you something. Would an SEE GF have been a worse choice?

Our house needed a new roof, and before that a few other people on our street had a new roof and I told my husband I want a very nice roof like them, very different from the very dumb flat black tiles it was made with (1997) ... so when it was time, we did get a nicer roof (like I wanted) Dimensional Shingles (AKA Architectural Shingles)

When it was time to paint the house we went with what I wanted. Someone on our street copied the color in the next few years but had an ugly flat roof and ours looked really great because of the dimensional roof tiles with the very nice light yellow green color.

I am ILI-Ni, so maybe I have a better grasp of house things than a Te like your economist neighbor probably is. At any rate, my SEE needs me for his ideas for the property. I have a lot of my own ideas and they get translated or beamed over to him (what he thinks he comes up with.)

[Adam Strange]

[SIZE=2]


Our house needed a new roof, and before that a few other people on our street had a new roof and I told my husband I want a very nice roof like them, very different from the very dumb flat black tiles it was made with (1997) ... so when it was time, we did get a nicer roof (like I wanted) Dimensional Shingles (AKA Architectural Shingles)

When it was time to paint the house we went with what I wanted. Someone on our street copied the color in the next few years but had an ugly flat roof and ours looked really great because of the dimensional roof tiles with the very nice light yellow green color.

I am ILI-Ni, so maybe I have a better grasp of house things than a Te like your economist neighbor probably is. At any rate, my SEE needs me for his ideas for the property. I have a lot of my own ideas and they get translated or beamed over to him (what he thinks he comes up with.)

I think my neighbor’s GF chose purple so she’d have no competition, and I think he went along with it because LSI females can be great at sex with Victim-types.

Of course, he hasn’t said this is true; these might just be me, projecting.

[End]

The common pattern is that the ILI can dive deeper into a subject and can improve it beyond the present state of the art, but often fails to account for the fact that his new design has to work with the rest of the world.

There is also a dangerous reliance on mathematical modeling while simultaneously ignoring real-world testing. Ni >>> Se.

Math works until it doesn't. Theories work until they don't. The critical flaw I've observed within my own type is the ability to actually accept that truth. Dominant seems to instill within its possessors the sin of "pride" as it were. Your prophecies will come to pass and have come to pass so often that you're not just joking when you call a given prognosis the title of "A Prophecy from X-Dadamus". You are not worthy of the title of that hack's successor because if he really had mastered he'd have been way more specific in his prophecies. His vagueness is why all the other types seem to see him as some sort of actual seer. Delta's and Alpha's most especially from my own experience.

That said, I am fully confident in my prophecies, but I'd never dare to tell anyone what the winning lottery numbers are going to be nor the exact date the Schism between the Roman and Eastern Orthodox Churches will be resolved/healed. I can and will tell you that the schism will be resolved within our lifetimes and that nobody of any real consequence will win the lottery if I dared to give a few numbers out but if I bothered to even try I'd bet my random numbers would end up in the winners more often than not.

Hehe, I'd also ask how "autistic" they seemed to be to you. There is a meme that says that ILI is shorthand for autism/Asperger's sydrome to some degree or another. Another data point that may well explain many another for me...

[Adam Strange]

Math works until it doesn't. Theories work until they don't. The critical flaw I've observed within my own type is the ability to actually accept that truth. Dominant seems to instill within its possessors the sin of "pride" as it were. Your prophecies will come to pass and have come to pass so often that you're not just joking when you call a given prognosis the title of "A Prophecy from X-Dadamus". You are not worthy of the title of that hack's successor because if he really had mastered he'd have been way more specific in his prophecies. His vagueness is why all the other types seem to see him as some sort of actual seer. Delta's and Alpha's most especially from my own experience.

That said, I am fully confident in my prophecies, but I'd never dare to tell anyone what the winning lottery numbers are going to be nor the exact date the Schism between the Roman and Eastern Orthodox Churches will be resolved/healed. I can and will tell you that the schism will be resolved within our lifetimes and that nobody of any real consequence will win the lottery if I dared to give a few numbers out but if I bothered to even try I'd bet my random numbers would end up in the winners more often than not.

Hehe, I'd also ask how "autistic" they seemed to be to you. There is a meme that says that ILI is shorthand for autism/Asperger's sydrome to some degree or another. Another data point that may well explain many another for me...

@End, ILIs don’t seem autistic to me at all. They seem particularly smart and hard-working (when they want to be) and have a capacity to focus intently on their interests. They are also fundamentally nicer people than I am, even though they will often be a dick to someone on first meeting them.

They are very similar to LIEs, in my experience, with only a few general differences.
One, they don’t want to be the main attraction on stage. They want to control things from the shadows, offstage.
Two, they are more likely to believe in God than not.
Three, they can dive so deeply into a subject that they miss stuff that is right next to the problem, and which often affects it.
And fourth, as I said before, they are actually warmer human beings than LIEs, but you have to know them for a while to see this. LIEs can seem superficially friendlier at first, but ILIs actually care about people more.

Oh, and one last thing. When ILIs go wrong, they tend towards psychopathy, so they want to kill you, usually from a safe distance with a sniper rifle. LIEs tend towards sociopathy, so they want to kill everyone, usually by introducing the idea that corporations have the same rights as people but have none of the responsibilities.*


*I mean, if a person deliberately released chemicals which they knew were toxic into the drinking water and caused 5,000 people to die and 20,000 more to go blind, should we let that person off with a fine and a request that they not do it again?
No one has executed a corporation in a long time.

[End]

@End, ILIs don’t seem autistic to me at all. They seem particularly smart and hard-working (when they want to be) and have a capacity to focus intently on their interests. They are also fundamentally nicer people than I am, even though they will often be a dick to someone on first meeting them.

They are very similar to LIEs, in my experience, with only a few general differences.
One, they don’t want to be the main attraction on stage. They want to control things from the shadows, offstage.
Two, they are more likely to believe in God than not.
Three, they can dive so deeply into a subject that they miss stuff that is right next to the problem, and which often affects it.
And fourth, as I said before, they are actually warmer human beings than LIEs, but you have to know them for a while to see this. LIEs can seem superficially friendlier at first, but ILIs actually care about people more.

Oh, and one last thing. When ILIs go wrong, they tend towards psychopathy, so they want to kill you, usually from a safe distance with a sniper rifle. LIEs tend towards sociopathy, so they want to kill everyone, usually by introducing the idea that corporations have the same rights as people but have none of the responsibilities.*


*I mean, if a person deliberately released chemicals which they knew were toxic into the drinking water and caused 5,000 people to die and 20,000 more to go blind, should we let that person off with a fine and a request that they not do it again?
No one has executed a corporation in a long time.

That all sounds about right. After all, as Stalin so eloquently put it: "Behind every problem is a man. No man, no problem."

Well, I modified the quote a bit because this way sounds better. Why kill a ton of people when just dusting one with an Anti-Materiel rifle will get the job done and enable the plans and prophecies to continue along more beneficial lines? I say Anti-Materiel because ya wanna be sure and the results of such a hit on a human target sends quite the message (especially if ya use HE ammo for that 20mm).

As for the corporations I agree that they need dealing with. The only way I'm seeing as to how to do it effectively (as a corp isn't really a living breathing person and thus cannot be truly "shot" nor does breaking them up into smaller ones do much in practice) is to bring back some form of collective punishment (e.g. make the board of directors legally responsible for the crimes of their employees pertaining to their business). This leads to a very bad slippery slope indeed, but otherwise the corporate big wigs just get one of their flunkies to take the fall for their atrocities and they have near infinite access to flunkies. Managerialism 101.

It's as I've commentated before. We're living in a cyberpunk dystopia, but without all the cool shit we were promised. Personally, I feel cheated!