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Thread: Braingel/Kara’s Enneagram takes.

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    I’ve never seen a case of a person who has been into the enneagram, who has entered it in a healthful state. And this is because people who would be interested into the enneagram, would have motivations for its entering, that more concern a lower level of health.


    A healthy person wouldn’t really need to be that into the enneagram, really; they’d have reached their integration point.


    Unhealthy ego patterns are more likely to attract to something as this.. My motivation for coming into typology was to further separate myself from other people, and also to understand why I was so fucking different from everyone else.. Even, I differ far more than your typical person with autism… I also fell in love with the archetype and pattern aspect, because of my intuition.. And I contemplated it a lot. How I got good at the enneagram actually is mostly from my own contemplation and holistic understanding of the types.. I’ve not done as much reading as it looks, I had started off with a not so good, but better than many starter schools like Chesnut or Fauvre, with Christopher Heurtz, and his book *The Sacred Enneagram* was the only book I ever completed.. Now, I’m trying to read more of Wisdom of the Enneagram, I had just really started off reading the triads within it, and my own type and the core 8, because I crushed on an 8…


    But the motivations for entering the enneagram are important to know. Because they for one thing, say something about your own type… But also, the motivations are really not likely to be healthful. They are far more likely to serve the ego….


    I do not like having to see myself in something so common, and a few years ago, I wouldn’t even have been able to say this.. But child abuse is “common”, and most people in the typology community appear to have had dysfunctional (at best) or abusive childhoods… There doesn’t appear to be anyone that I’ve ever seen with an ideal childhood, in any typology community. It is worse in the enneagram, but also seen in MBTI and Socionics, as well. And neurodiversity is prevalent in these communities, and being neurodiverse with its differences, predisposes trauma in most environments.


    People are a lot more likely to mistype as their disintegration point when they come in.. This didn’t happen to myself, but when I first took an enneagram test, I had gotten 4 core, but just one point short of 2. I believe it was the eclectic energies test.. I don’t believe testing is that great anyhow, especially because there is such a poor understanding of types in the general enneagram conscious. But when you have no idea as how I hadn’t, about the enneagram.. You at least cannot just answer the questions in as biased, a way.


    I would have to say that young adult years can also be quite a challenge… An abused child, unless they were able to evade their abusive situation early on, isn’t going to enter the world healthfully, and with healthy ego patterns. So, the likelihood is that their motives and thus behaviors, would induce the pathological ego structure… There is less time to process the abuse, as well.


    This is in part why I don’t really feel that it’s actually a good thing to diagnose personality disorders so young… For one thing, the personality isn’t finished forming until the mid to late twenties (in variance by individual), but also because an abused child who wasn’t able to get out of their abuse, who just enters young adulthood, isn’t going to be undone of their abusive schemas….


    I was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder at just 17, with the provisional borderline protocol.. I’m in my early twenties.. I outgrew a lot of my “borderline behaviors”, but my attention seeking behaviors when I hit my 2 line still always come on from stress (which is often, because I still live in the abusive environment I grew up in).. It’s just that to me, a personality disorder (on a pathological level as with the DSM) is a fixed, rigid personality pattern, that won’t absolve when stress lifts…


    There isn’t even a chance really, for the young adult to really not have a dysfunctional behavioral pattern, and the personality isn’t even yet set into place.


    The reason I bring up personality disorders, is because more than any type of disorder, these correlate to the enneagram specifically. Theodore Millon subtypes are better than the DSM, in my opinion… They aren’t necessarily a “disorder”.. And I would fit the schizotypal borderline in there. I see schizotypal borderline as 4w5, narcissistic borderline as 4w3, and core borderline as 6.


    Something to be mindful of for someone who never has processed their childhood abuse and/or trauma, and also for other people who are looking on at the person, is that the behavior may really more show the disintegration point…. The motivation will of course be at the core, but people focus way too much on behaviors, rather than motivation, in these communities….


    People make the mistake of assuming most people would be at an average health… People into the enneagram aren’t really your “average people”, with very specific motivations for entering the enneagram, most times… Ones that aren’t going to be as healthy of a motivation.


    Another thing that I sort of explained yesterday, is that symptoms that are strictly related to PTSD can be misinterpreted as types.


    More than any types, I would have say PTSD overlaps 6 and 9.


    With 6, PTSD can exaggerate reactivity with its hijacking the amygdala to make more extreme emotional reactions, with what perceives as a threat. PTSD is an anxiety disorder (it classifies as both anxiety and traumatic), and 6 is an anxiety type…. If the nervous system is on too much, it can stress the body with cortisol and make one more hypervigilant and that’s why you get the defining symptom of exaggerated startle response.


    PTSD also can mistake as core 6 projection…. Because the hippocampus wires to store memory and will be overactive when a perceived traumatic stimulus awakens that memory, and so you can get someone with PTSD reacting to what is their stored trauma, and it can look like complete, unsolicited projection.


    Any type can have PTSD, and these are universal symptoms that define PTSD.


    The prefrontal cortex, amygdala, and hippocampus are all brain parts that are damaged when coming to PTSD, but they are reversible in some extent…. PTSD is essentially an injured Limbic system. It’s more an injury than anything else…


    With a core 9.. It can be mistaken because 9 disintegrates to 6, not only, but also because of the dissociation.


    I feel that the main differences in these things, is that these behaviors would only exist on the offending trauma. A person with PTSD would only dissociate from traumatic events or emotions that are specific to the trauma.. Someone with PTSD only would react like this to traumatic triggers. (The hypervigilance can apply to anything, though. That happens from repeated traumatic trigger clicking and putting the body in a perpetual cortisol grip where it hijacks and startles).


    The way a person gets abused matters. For one person, the trigger can take form of sexual content, and for another, invalidation… If the person has suffered numerous types of abuses, there can be more triggers.


    Some types of abuse are a lot easier to set off triggers with, like invalidation, so the person would be reacting a lot more… And if a person extends numerous traumas, there would be more kinds of triggers and thus, more ways to set off reaction.


    I will also say that maybe PTSD can also overlap a 4 fix.. Something I just thought of.. And, it makes sense to me in why I see the CPTSD description heavily biasing to 649/469.. Is that someone’s abuse and trauma can make them from others, feel alienated. That no one can understand their own trauma… And if an abuser makes the person to feel this way, calling them something as a “weirdo” or “freak”, and the vicim introjects this…


    Now, as with myself, if it is a general belief that no one ever will understand you on any level— with separation that ensues from this feeling alienated to gratify ego and quell shame, that is a 4 core. If it’s just for the trauma, it may, or may not pertain to a 4 fix….


    Attachment types may also mistake their trauma as their core identity. Especially I feel a 6, who may attach to something as a support group, and identify as a “traumatized person”…


    This is why the motivation really has to be the focal point of consideration. Some types may not as much attune to what their core motivations are, less introspective types (8, 7, 2).. And attachment types.. Especially when there’s no 4 or 5 fix….


    A telltale way to know what someone’s type is, is the line movement. There are some superficial behaviors that can result in overlaps of line behavior… But overall, if one looks closely to examine.. It isn’t as easy to fuck up, as it is with someone looking onward a person, with mere behavior.. In order to type someone in lines, you have to actually see the person fall or rise, though. Otherwise, it is just behavioral, as much as it is without looking at lines…


    The lines I feel are better than even the triads… The triads are traits that can taint with underlying pathology… Or even with something as MBTI or Socionics type.


    The entire premise of being able to type behavior is that it shows where the core motivation lies and pushes all that behavior.. If you have something external to enneagram that adds behavior that is related to cognition or to different brain wiring (injury or a hardware as autism or adhd), then you aren’t actually looking at the enneagram type. That’s a different anatomy. In my book I’m writing, I made metaphor for this all…


    People are far too complex to just blanket general behaviors.. There are human frailties that no typology was made account for on a behavioral level. The enneagram is different from all other typologies in that you can actually type a person with ease, if you can actually access the motive and line movement, which are meant to withstand anomalies…


    An issue that I feel is here, is that people are too used to systems like MBTI and Socionics, where you focus more on behavior and speech patterns alone, to see where the cognition is.. You of course have someone’s speech to factor into the enneagram, but it is far more nuanced.. And communicative barriers and behaviors can misinterpret as showing way to a motivation, when it’s a dead end and not where all behavior generates from in the emotional (enneagram) sphere. People conflate enneagram and MBTI things all the time as well, and this is where I made the metaphor I haven’t to public given.


    MBTI and Socionics don’t concern a lens.. So, you can quantify the types a lot more just by external looking.. It isn’t into the heart, the heart is harder to access on a surgical level than the brain. And the part of the brain where emotions govern, is far harder to access and is inoperable, really, whereas the prefrontal cortex (mbti, socionics) is not as much so. It is a metaphor of accessibility, the way it is in itself structured.


    A person can kill if one tries too hard to reach into the amygdala… A person can metaphorically kill with their assumptions and their humiliating a person where their core insecurities, pain, and fears lie… A person’s perception is more delicate tissue than of hardwired bone.. That can take of more… That isn’t as to the touch, soft…


    The perception, rather than cognition itself, is where almost all pathologies lie. Perception impacts how the cognition works. How a person who is a 4, would with their Ne, find ways to separate their own self… Or their Ni, seeing in their eye how different they are… How a 6 perception would use its cognition with something like Ne, to find possibilities of threat… Or a 5, possibilities with Ne to further expand their intellectual sphere to feel more in the world, competent.


    The perception is the driving force for all interactions and how the cognition to interact inside and out, uses. It is the heart and conscious brain, pumping all blood to the other areas, and the conscious that tells a brain what do.


    There are some things with circumstance.. That can make fog to the perception. Disintegration itself.. But things that would be outside, as much as the weather can snow or rain.. And hit the perception.. These things will result in disintegration their own self, but some of these things would be unrelated to the enneagram. They would still wet the psyche, but can make the perception lose control over its inherent way of seeing. Such is the case with something as PTSD.. Where chemical accumulation in the body will wet it, erode it.. And the original structure of it has momentarily deformed..


    The cortisol surfaces up, it drowns the perception and stresses it.. So the perception sees underwater of all this cortisol.. And drowns as it tries see.. But can’t..


    It sickens a mind.. And if the genetics make for it, result in physical frailties as fibromyalgia, autoimmunity, TMJ, and other means. I’m diagnosed with idiopathic neuropathy, TMJ and fibromyalgia. I’m being tested for autoimmunity, as my sister and aunt have mastocytosis (sister) and chron’s disease (aunt). My cousin who is older than I, he’s 28.. He just this recency got diagnosed with thyroid cancer and had his taken out. He had thyroid challenges before….


    All relate to PTSD and the cortisol, I feel. But the Nod2gene runs in my family. It’s just the stress activated it. In me..


    The generational abuse in the family line has made for more stressed nervous systems that likely played role to activate this gene..
    Last edited by Braingel; 03-04-2023 at 08:25 PM.
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  2. #82
    The Chosen Prophet. Braingel's Avatar
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    Another thing here, is that.. People are too reductionistic in their concluding people a type, not just in enneagram, but Socionics and even psychiatric diagnoses their own selves.


    This appears be an average human behavior. I am certainly not this way (and I might as well not even consider fully human), but it appears to permeate mainstream society with doctors making a “standard” pill, rather than of doing genetic testing to rule out allergies.. Of the law separating people in three broad categories; minor, adult, or one not guilty by insanity.. It is seen in psychiatric diagnosis, with a professional hearing a few symptoms, and automatically concluding their cause. Of assuming every person with autism capable or incapable of something, because the person who does this assumption, has seen only one aspect of the spectrum….


    When there isn’t one med that treats a certain condition relative to what is for the individual, no one becomes an adult just at one age as much as not every girl starts a period at just 13, and you have people who are adults who may not better have known, and sometimes, teenagers who well knew what they were doing, and they do not get tried as an adult (knowing) conscious… When there is far more than one facet of autism… When a symptom as anxiety, can result from PTSD, schizophrenia, depression, substance abuse, OCD, and many things other.


    People are quick to say that a behavior will not manifest in X type… When people are far too nuanced to just of this say. I made metaphor in my book, with anatomy of types… People are the sum of all their types… Circulating through each other.


    There are some behaviors that will never show in a type…. Because they are incongruent with that core ego structure, or the cognition itself.. But for isolated behaviors that pertain outside of typology in their cause, as with autism, PTSD.. Substance abuse that concerns the direct neurology.. A physical condition as a brain tumor, pressing on the amygdala itself…


    One can’t just assume what they see is rooting from that organ. Even if the blood spurts from an area not afar it…


    If someone wants to reduce people to 9 (or 16 for mbti and socionics) vague types of people in their head, then that says something about their own type.. Whether it is enneagram-related, mbti/cognition-related, or even both, that cannot assume.


    As far as the enneagram, you have the lines as the intelligence center and Freduen ego for the upper spine , and the lines connect it to the other bodily parts, dictating if one slouches, bends… Lies down, or is upright, tall in health….


    If someone behaves atypically for their type with an isolated behavior that wouldn’t expect… Yet they fit the lines and core ego structure.. Then that behavior has caused from another organ.

    The enneagram was only made calculate one metric; the emotional, motivating one. It isn’t of the cognition, the direct neurology…


    When you use it outside this, you use a false tool, that will give incorrect read and misdiagnosis.


    Why use an X-Ray for soft tissue, inside the heart itself…. The enneagram represents soft, delicate, complex tissue. An X-ray shows as something looks, looking in from out, without cutting back.. The only way to access an enneagram type is to cut back. You read patterns that make a constellation, much as an estimated diagnosis that cannot ever know until one actually goes into see…..
    Last edited by Braingel; 03-06-2023 at 05:50 AM.
    I am in my head; not society.

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    My thoughts align with action to succeed what needs…


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    In socionics itself, people confuse Te with competency. And A Te PolR generally won’t have more than one competency fix, I feel. But competency is about an ability to suppress emotion in emotional situation, whereas Te is about valuing efficiency and external data. Someone can value efficiency to an extent, without wanting external data… People would say this can be fit Te role.. But there are many things at play and I do not believe a PolR function can manifest in one way, and the individual matters. Someone can completely reject data when the data contradicts their own intuitions.. This would be myself.

    To just assume an individual will show one way, an exact pattern.. Is foolish… And patronizing of individual means… It actually puts someone off a path of spiritual liberation.

    Most people do not even understand what each function is, anyhow. They confuse Te with Ti all the time.. And Fe with Fi. An expression of personal sentiments and character judgments, such as my usage of foolish, would more exude from Fi.

    Instead, people will attach to some description.. Because most of this world is attachment…. In the enneagram.. And they will absorb that, taking to it as a gospel. With myopic vision, that doesn’t see past and looks at things from a hindsight, rather than a true vision of what is.

    That’s actually more Te than anything I have said here, because those definitions concern the outside, what is outside defined and already there.
    I am in my head; not society.

    Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am.​ Also, a brain angel. (But Zelda's incarnate too).


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    I believe the Christian practice itself is SO/SP, but the Christian God would be SX/SP. Christianity is focused on brotherhood and merging the neighbor, but repressing sexuality.. The Christian God had focus on Adam and Eve, making Eve a helpmate.. And there is not as much focus on social matter.. People would argue if Jesus and God were one and the same, the God couldn’t be this way, since Jesus would’ve been probably SP/SO… But, I don’t see the God as social… And, if one wanted see it symbolically, the God would really be all instincts combined since it would’ve created them as representations. It’s just with how it is written, I see SX/SP, if not, SP/SX.


    I’m not religious. It’s just interesting how the practice itself is SO/SP.. Jesus probably was SP/SO.. And I see the God as SX.. SX1..


    You do have that both the God and Jesus were core 1… Jesus also represents what the original God lacked, which to me also shows social influence, since it was blinded in the God. (Jesus would’ve been a Naranjo 6).


    If you buy the whole contra/syn flow, Jesus would’ve been an SO/SP. But he definitely did use SP in his morality, and with healing physicalities.. And he seemed more restrained and less overtly super ego, and more calm, than would expect of a socially dominant. I don’t personally believe in contra/syn flow. For if it were real, it would to me, eliminate certain instinctive combos in certain core types.


    I feel that if Jesus were a social 1st, he’d have been even more preachy (and especially with a 6 or 5w6 fix, with the 6 influence). But if you want equate why the religion could be SO/SP, Jesus could’ve been social, which is the alternative to his instinctive stacking…


    Jesus could’ve had a 5 as the head, with competency and keeping composure under stress, and abstracting the pain.. But since he had known what would come, it would’ve been easier to prepare.
    Last edited by Braingel; 03-09-2023 at 02:49 PM.
    I am in my head; not society.

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    Legitimately brilliant and an actual IEI. Brava.

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    Braingel seems playing with elsewhere findings of a live wire potency, so because her inner essence shines so brightly, she must be 4, 5, or 9.
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    Aside from the 4 core being idealized and glamorized, I feel that apart of why you have so many people mistyping themselves a 4 core when they get into typology or in general here, lies in that INFP is probably the most common type amidst the typology community..


    This is because typology is an intuitive domain, and Fi-Ne is the second most common intuitive type, is self-focused in some ways to want figure out “who one is”, and an introvert is more likely be online than extrovert (so ENFP isn’t first).


    There are overlay with a 4 and with predominant Fi, with Si tertiary. With how tests format to bias towards an Fe attachment type, it doesn’t to me, come at a surprise an Fi dom who values their own emotional sentiments would see themselves in the 4 core. In addition, I feel it more common for an INFP to be a 4 fix, and those with a 4 fix may further mistake self as core 4.


    I happen to be both a 4 core and an INFP. I am a social lead.. I feel that the only way to really see a genuine 4 in the community as a general pattern, is for them to be a social lead and fixed 6. I am a 461.


    You can sometimes probably get an SX/SO or SP/SO 4 in here with a 6 fix… But SX isn’t as common as SO.


    I don’t really feel an average 5 or 7 fixed INFP 4 (who is not as strong in their MBTI Fe) is going to be as much into the community…


    And I do believe more than any type, INFP has the most real 4 cores. I’d guess 60% as 9, 20% 4, 18% 6, and 2% otherwise.


    And whilst I see 4 slightly more prevalent for infp than 6, I see 6 as more likely to present in these communities than 4 even when infp, because 6 has more combinations that can value a community as this, than one who is a core 4.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braingel View Post
    Aside from the 4 core being idealized and glamorized, I feel that apart of why you have so many people mistyping themselves a 4 core when they get into typology or in general here, lies in that INFP is probably the most common type amidst the typology community..


    This is because typology is an intuitive domain, and Fi-Ne is the second most common intuitive type, is self-focused in some ways to want figure out “who one is”, and an introvert is more likely be online than extrovert (so ENFP isn’t first).


    There are overlay with a 4 and with predominant Fi, with Si tertiary. With how tests format to bias towards an Fe attachment type, it doesn’t to me, come at a surprise an Fi dom who values their own emotional sentiments would see themselves in the 4 core. In addition, I feel it more common for an INFP to be a 4 fix, and those with a 4 fix may further mistake self as core 4.


    I happen to be both a 4 core and an INFP. I am a social lead.. I feel that the only way to really see a genuine 4 in the community as a general pattern, is for them to be a social lead and fixed 6. I am a 461.


    You can sometimes probably get an SX/SO or SP/SO 4 in here with a 6 fix… But SX isn’t as common as SO.


    I don’t really feel an average 5 or 7 fixed INFP 4 (who is not as strong in their MBTI Fe) is going to be as much into the community…


    And I do believe more than any type, INFP has the most real 4 cores. I’d guess 60% as 9, 20% 4, 18% 6, and 2% otherwise.


    And whilst I see 4 slightly more prevalent for infp than 6, I see 6 as more likely to present in these communities than 4 even when infp, because 6 has more combinations that can value a community as this, than one who is a core 4.

    And whilst I see 4 slightly more prevalent for infp than 6, I see 6 as more likely to present in these communities than 4 even when infp, because 6 has more combinations that can value a community as this, than one who is a core 4. For ISFP (which has Se auxiliary and is defined as harmonizing with their environment), I’d go towards 65-70% being 9, 10-11% being 4, 21-23% being 6 and the remain being different. I see 6 as more common for Isfp, because an Isfp is more active than an infp and a 4 is disconnected from its gut.


    I’d say that for an Isfp, you’d find tritypes that are more active, for the 4.. Such as 478.. Ones that you see in extroverted 4’s like an ENFP.. Because they aren’t as stuck in inertia..

    And 4w3 is definitely more common for it than a 4w5, as 4w5 is more intuitive with its back to back withdrawn, contemplative influence.
    Last edited by Braingel; 04-25-2023 at 06:17 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braingel View Post
    And whilst I see 4 slightly more prevalent for infp than 6, I see 6 as more likely to present in these communities than 4 even when infp, because 6 has more combinations that can value a community as this, than one who is a core 4. For ISFP (which has Se auxiliary and is defined as harmonizing with their environment), I’d go towards 65-70% being 9, 12-13% being 4, 18-20% being 6 and the remain being different. I see 6 as more common for Isfp, because an Isfp is more active than an infp and a 4 is disconnected from its gut.


    I’d say that for an Isfp, you’d find tritypes that are more active, for the 4.. Such as 478.. Ones that you see in extroverted 4’s like an ENFP.. Because they aren’t as stuck in inertia..

    And 4w3 is definitely more common for it than a 4w5, as 4w5 is more intuitive with its back to back withdrawn, contemplative influence.
    I don’t believe infj 4 is common, at all. I‘d say only 2-3% of INFJ’s are 4 core, and they would be SP mostly. I actually see 9 core coinciding INFJ very well, with its disconnection from its body with Se inferiority… And the Fe being more focused on harmony and also, fixed 2. An INFJ’s Fe is defined as being highly adaptable, changing its emotional state depending on whom it is with… I believe you are more likely to find an ENFP 4, than of an INFJ.. And I wouldn’t put ENFP 4 as that common.. I really only see 479 (with 9w8 for the 9), 468 and 478 working for ENFP, and the w3… Maybe 5-7% could be 4’s.. I believe most ENFP are 7, 6… And perhaps 3w4… With that Te tertiary.

    If you’ve an INFJ 4, they probably are more likely to be a rare kind of 4, a rejectionist 4.. An SP458, or something.. Because of how Fe rejects its need… Or an emotionally repressed 451… I can maybe also see SP 469, given that this type of 4 in the Tritype (not instinct, social would be more so) is the most adaptable… But I wouldn’t call social 4 in an infj common, because of how it is detached from its own emotion. SP is the best fit for infj 4..

    If anything, most people who are INFJ and are typing themselves 4 core are 6 or 9 cores with a 4 fix who are introjecting the INFJ being touted the rarest type, and are feeling unique and special because of this, and their 4 fix plays in.
    Last edited by Braingel; 04-25-2023 at 02:34 AM.
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    An Fi dom attachment type more would be attaching to causes they believe in and for a 6, have “their people” they feel safe and trusted with. I don’t believe in a 3 core Fi dom.

    Let’s say an infp is passionate about child abuse prevention. If they’re social, they’re going to be on the frontline of speeches, movements and attaching and being apart of them, speaking against them, if they’re a core 6.. Whereas a social 461 (my type), the most super ego you can get for 4, would more write about their passion and tie their own experience into it, making their own suffering heard.. They won’t be attaching to groups or be on the frontline as a “spokesperson”..

    They would write about it.. Poetically or as an autobiography.. And loathe whenever someone says “we” are in this together.. “I relate to your story”. It would make this infp 4 feel their own story doesn’t matter.. There’s nothing more I hate than of others of themselves comparing their self to my own.

    But the core 6 with a 4 fix who is INFP will want others to relate to, but only special people ”who understand”.. And who can focus meaningfully.. It isn’t the Fe attachment to a community.. “To help everyone”, see yourself “in everyone”.. Not even a core 9 infp with a 4 will of this do..


    The INFP (and ISFP) 6 and 9 core with 4 fixes still want their own sentiments.. They want *thwir* values on the forefront.. Their emotions to prioritize.. But, they still are tribal and won’t be as self-absorbed or frustrated as a core 4..


    The 9 and 6 core INFP are much more active than of 4. It won’t be significantly active as an intuitive type, but it will be further out into the world than a core 4.. The same is true for ISFP, but as I explained, an ISFP 4 will be more active than an INFP… They’d be more out in something like fashion, not locked inside in their room all day, vitamin D deprived as me. I’ve been severely deficient since I’ve been 14… I don’t say this as good thing, as I’m in my early twenties and have rheumatoid arthritis and fibromyalgia, both correlated to VD deficiency. My genetics and PTSD stress (plus for fibromyalgia, probably my autistic sensory anomalies) and this have the role in my illness.
    Last edited by Braingel; 04-25-2023 at 03:43 AM.
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    I’ve the hardest time getting outside and moving my body.. I will rest my feet against the wall sometimes to return the blood that has pooled my legs, and sometimes go for a walk..
    I am so focused inwardly, that my outer cognizance lacks.. And plants I try and keep die, other than my lace fern which needs watering once a month or lesser. Keeping up with the outside world is labor, to me. It feels mentally like I’ve walked 10 miles.. When others around me push the outside and bring it to my inner (as they see my emotion and I come out a bit to see them and what is touching my emotional sphere), I with that deep energy exchange can sometimes move along.. I’ve a very hard time bringing that outside into my inner… It is winter without sun, and when sun shines me down on, I may warm up and move, slightly.


    But.. The 6 will be more active than the core 9, because the 9 is a withdrawn type, thus, the “least active” attachment type. It is however more active than both a core 4 and 5…


    Your true couch potato’s aren’t core 9… At all. The sloth or a 9 more comes from their self-disconnection and inability to pursue action on their own emotional sentiments, disconnecting from it and focusing out to keep the harmony.. They are still gut types and are attachment. 4 and 5 are at the bottom and disconnected from their gut… They grow when they integrate their bodies.


    It’s true that a 9 when they’re unhealthy, may sleep to avoid pain.. And isolate and be hypervigilant of the world disrupting their equilibrium at their 6 line.. But they won’t have issues moving their bodies in general… They can go out in nature.. They can go out and work, dissociating as they do, and putting off some things.. They’re the most common type. If the world mostly was couch potato, it wouldn’t look as it is, and so a 9 core being most common and being affiliated to a couch potato makes of zero sense. They are slothful in pursuit of emotional action and personal issues, putting those things off as their paid price to keep peace and connection with others (social), their physical and internal environment (SP) or partner (SX).

    A 4 and a 5 core are probably the most prone of any to develop disorders from inertia.. Joint issues, and whatnot. And to be deficient in vitamin D.. Especially a Social or SP blinded one (I blind SP).

    I’d argue an increase in more inertia is the result of stress that has pushed 9’s to their 6 line. If you subscribe to the 2-way line theory, some 9’s would work harder at a 3 line. To keep the peace.. Probably social leads more this way go. Still, it isn’t at the level of a 4 and 5’s.. And the world would die if this were of case.
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    With the estimations I’ve made.. 4 core is around 2% or less of the world. ESFP and INTJ are questionable types in which to see a core 4.. INTJ is more feasible than of ESFP.. Because an Se dom is more in tune with the externalities.. It doesn’t befit the disconnection from body/gut.. In socionics perhaps it isn’t quite as abstruse, given that it is an ignorer of Si.. But many ESFP in socionics will be ese… Because of how Se in socionics is characterized by force and in mbti, Se more about harmony and unity with the environment. I do believe 4 core mostly corresponds to Fi minus, though.. Meaning the types most likely to be a core 4 are IEI, ESI and IEE… (ESE ignores its Fi minus, making it not suited for 4. As well as its alpha value that make it more a positive outlook type, even triple positive most often).


    I see Se and Si being higher as anti 4 core.. And Isfp and esi are the exception because it leads with Fi. Similarly, a high Se or Si 5 core is unfeasible.


    If an INFP accounts for 4% of the populace, 25% of such is 1%… And I am putting around 20% of INFP’s being the core 4… Meaning that less than 1% of the 4% is 4.. ISFP is approximately 8% of this world… 10-11% of that 8 is also less than 1% of it.. It is not as common for an Isfp to be a 4 as it is for an infp.. Yet ISFP is more common than an INFP, so they aren’t that far off from one another, in terms of the amount of people that comprise the 4 core population in sum to the global populace. If ISFP is 10%, and INFP 20%, they’re actually the same amount when put to the global populace, given that 8 is double 4, 10 half of 20. It’s just that for its type alone, an INFP is more likely to have a genuine 4 than of an ISFP…
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braingel View Post
    With the estimations I’ve made.. 4 core is around 2% or less of the world. ESFP and INTJ are questionable types in which to see a core 4.. INTJ is more feasible than of ESFP.. Because an Se dom is more in tune with the externalities.. It doesn’t befit the disconnection from body/gut.. In socionics perhaps it isn’t quite as abstruse, given that it is an ignorer of Si.. But many ESFP in socionics will be ese… Because of how Se in socionics is characterized by force and in mbti, Se more about harmony and unity with the environment. I do believe 4 core mostly corresponds to Fi minus, though.. Meaning the types most likely to be a core 4 are IEI, ESI and IEE… (ESE ignores its Fi minus, making it not suited for 4. As well as its alpha value that make it more a positive outlook type, even triple positive most often).



    I see Se and Si being higher as anti 4 core.. And Isfp and esi are the exception because it leads with Fi. Similarly, a high Se or Si 5 core is unfeasible.


    If an INFP accounts for 4% of the populace, 25% of such is 1%… And I am putting around 20% of INFP’s being the core 4… Meaning that less than 1% of the 4% is 4.. ISFP is approximately 8% of this world… 10-11% of that 8 is also less than 1% of it.. It is not as common for an Isfp to be a 4 as it is for an infp.. Yet ISFP is more common than an INFP, so they aren’t that far off from one another, in terms of the amount of people that comprise the 4 core population in sum to the global populace. If ISFP is 10%, and INFP 20%, they’re actually the same amount when put to the global populace, given that 8 is double 4, 10 half of 20. It’s just that for its type alone, an INFP is more likely to have a genuine 4 than of an ISFP…
    Almost all INFP in meyers translate to IEI in socionics because of the P/J switch and Te PolR in the IEI, with the Te inferiority in meyers… And the result versus process dichotomy making the IEI more scattered than its EII counterpart which is supposed to be “Fi-Ne” but it defines the functions differently. Most Isfp likewise, turn out SEI. But the ones who will cross over to esi are going to more likely be the core 4… With INFP, the Si tertiary also makes sense with Si plus role in socionics… Most infj end up EII, but you get infp who are EII, Isfp who are ESI, and infj who are IEI. I’ve a friend who is an INFJ IEI 592 (5w6).. But it is not as typical to have a clean translation.. With how Renin dichotomy works, the tertiary becoming the 6th function in socionics, Quadra values, and the P/J switch itself. The functions also change definition.. Meaning if you’re expressive, you can’t be an ignorer of Fe, excluding EII for you if you’re infp. SO4 never will be EII.

    EII most often goes to INFJ as I’ve said, and an EII 4 is very unlikely. If it happens, it would be a 451, which is constricted, or something as 459. It would be blinded social and an SP lead. Some infj will go to esi in socionics or IEI.. Those guys can be something like 458. Se PolR in the EII is anti reactive and Fe ignoring makes social and sexual 4 an impossibility for it.
    Last edited by Braingel; 04-25-2023 at 06:44 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braingel View Post
    An Fi dom attachment type more would be attaching to causes they believe in and for a 6, have “their people” they feel safe and trusted with. I don’t believe in a 3 core Fi dom.

    Let’s say an infp is passionate about child abuse prevention. If they’re social, they’re going to be on the frontline of speeches, movements and attaching and being apart of them, speaking against them, if they’re a core 6.. Whereas a social 461 (my type), the most super ego you can get for 4, would more write about their passion and tie their own experience into it, making their own suffering heard.. They won’t be attaching to groups or be on the frontline as a “spokesperson”..

    They would write about it.. Poetically or as an autobiography.. And loathe whenever someone says “we” are in this together.. “I relate to your story”. It would make this infp 4 feel their own story doesn’t matter.. There’s nothing more I hate than of others of themselves comparing their self to my own.

    But the core 6 with a 4 fix who is INFP will want others to relate to, but only special people ”who understand”.. And who can focus meaningfully.. It isn’t the Fe attachment to a community.. “To help everyone”, see yourself “in everyone”.. Not even a core 9 infp with a 4 will of this do..


    The INFP (and ISFP) 6 and 9 core with 4 fixes still want their own sentiments.. They want *thwir* values on the forefront.. Their emotions to prioritize.. But, they still are tribal and won’t be as self-absorbed or frustrated as a core 4..


    The 9 and 6 core INFP are much more active than of 4. It won’t be significantly active as an intuitive type, but it will be further out into the world than a core 4.. The same is true for ISFP, but as I explained, an ISFP 4 will be more active than an INFP… They’d be more out in something like fashion, not locked inside in their room all day, vitamin D deprived as me. I’ve been severely deficient since I’ve been 14… I don’t say this as good thing, as I’m in my early twenties and have rheumatoid arthritis and fibromyalgia, both correlated to VD deficiency. My genetics and PTSD stress (plus for fibromyalgia, probably my autistic sensory anomalies) and this have the role in my illness.
    And the 9 will be disconnected from making their emotions and turmoil the basis of their life, tuning out of them at times.. A 4 always is attuned.
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    The enneagram is very much real, it parallels nature and the universe, it epitomizes figmentation of divine origin.. But with how most people are, I do not feel the enneagram can maturely use in this eon.


    Most minds are oblivious to what the enneagram is for… And do not want accept who they are, their limitations, and their inherent strengths. Then, the hearts are closed and do not beat in rhythm of their own making.. And people attach to heavily to their type display, and others do as well. It is quite irritating when someone types themselves something and misrepresents to others that type… But it also when definitions constrict to not allow the blood to reach organ where it is meant full.. It kills off the structure and makes it overtime vestigial and kills off the awareness.


    I don’t really have hopes for people to use enneagram for its making. Not even most “teachers” or “psychologists”. Most will use the enneagram to reinforce society and its function.. Rather than of evolve it. In an ideal making of, the regained health in the individual would amass health throughout the world.. But with how things are now, awareness myopic and seen out of a color rather than their shades, there will not be an ideal world globally. It can bestow on individual colonies of heart and minds; souls.. But it won’t be near coming… The best is to make oneself healthy and put into touch with nature, and illuminate nature itself so that the societal veil pulls off from the conscious of an average person…


    It isn’t time for an ideal world, as when an ideal world has come, it no longer is Earth, but heaven.


    But alas.. Whether or not it is realized, most people within these communities seek enneagram to fill a void in which they feel absence.. Absence of self, abscence of direction. It becomes an identity… A clutch to not confront within, not even using this grasped unto identity to further see the true self that governs the grasping within the first of places.


    It is true of any typology. Why do you think one becomes so defensive over another telling them mistyped? It is because many use it as an identity, and if it loses, then confusion arises and one goes back to an unknowing of oneself…


    There are a few cases as with my own self, where the person is more than aware of who and what they are and represent, but it hurts for others to not see and assume the awareness false. This isn’t the typical case, as most people aren’t painfully self-aware. But in this case, it does also show that the self isn’t valued enough within, to be distraught when others cannot see one’s own representation, it symbolizes a lack of being rooted comfortably in being enough for one’s own alone. It is the result of trauma and an environment not meeting the inherent need. With one’s inherent drive towards wanting others to value them self, when they don’t want accept themselves if others cannot give to them love…


    What is grosser is the disregard others have for these human frailties. And typology is an ego game, to reinforce patterns, rather than evolve and of them outgrow. The communtiies are for this purpose. There is no community where enough individuals want transcend and become truly aware. Of their own being, others’ being and of nature its very self. I don’t expect people to see what I see with nature and its parallels. I am adept in foreseeing patterns and reflecting, and this reflection allows me to notice the subtleties that govern earth and with my intuition, perceive beyond to where they complete and interrelate…


    But, this world will never reach its heaven state with a lack of awareness to nature. And being aware of the self and surrendering to it, its limitations and gifts; the inherent frequencies it yields, is what it will take to uncover the veil of falsehood and hell created by man.


    True spirituality is about realizing the self, the collective, and the intricacies their own selves that thread the conscious; the mind and the earth, and beyond it, the universe that is parallel to the mind… The mind, the earth, the universe as an all-encompassing conscious. All as much illusory as the other. It isn’t about repeating some shoddy phrase, false figure, man-made book or the enneagram itself alone. It’s all-encompassing realization. It is surrender of self. Allowing others to be their own self, not enforcing what is unmade be.


    And rather than acknowledge nature, humanity has to make these parables to excuse-away knowing true divinity and what nature itself represents. With the enneagram, it is about marketing it in psychology and in business to enable the generational cycles of society as human apes. There is no true self showing to the front of an average person’s using, there is no compassion for another, with their limitations… And understanding that is where they fall short and aren’t made energy to charge by. This goes for socionics, this goes for meyers Briggs. Socionics has more awareness in this regard with its ITR dynamics. It’s just the people who tend apply it do not use it compassionately and use it to harass people.

    I want to see the heaven come around.. But with surrendering to my own making, I have heaven radiating within me.. This society is un-genuine and the reverse of it; hell. And people perpetuate hell with even, the enneagram.
    I am in my head; not society.

    Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am.​ Also, a brain angel. (But Zelda's incarnate too).


    My thoughts align with action to succeed what needs…


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    Quote Originally Posted by Braingel View Post
    The enneagram is very much real, it parallels nature and the universe, it epitomizes figmentation of divine origin.. But with how most people are, I do not feel the enneagram can maturely use in this eon.


    Most minds are oblivious to what the enneagram is for… And do not want accept who they are, their limitations, and their inherent strengths. Then, the hearts are closed and do not beat in rhythm of their own making.. And people attach to heavily to their type display, and others do as well. It is quite irritating when someone types themselves something and misrepresents to others that type… But it also when definitions constrict to not allow the blood to reach organ where it is meant full.. It kills off the structure and makes it overtime vestigial and kills off the awareness.


    I don’t really have hopes for people to use enneagram for its making. Not even most “teachers” or “psychologists”. Most will use the enneagram to reinforce society and its function.. Rather than of evolve it. In an ideal making of, the regained health in the individual would amass health throughout the world.. But with how things are now, awareness myopic and seen out of a color rather than their shades, there will not be an ideal world globally. It can bestow on individual colonies of heart and minds; souls.. But it won’t be near coming… The best is to make oneself healthy and put into touch with nature, and illuminate nature itself so that the societal veil pulls off from the conscious of an average person…


    It isn’t time for an ideal world, as when an ideal world has come, it no longer is Earth, but heaven.


    But alas.. Whether or not it is realized, most people within these communities seek enneagram to fill a void in which they feel absence.. Absence of self, abscence of direction. It becomes an identity… A clutch to not confront within, not even using this grasped unto identity to further see the true self that governs the grasping within the first of places.


    It is true of any typology. Why do you think one becomes so defensive over another telling them mistyped? It is because many use it as an identity, and if it loses, then confusion arises and one goes back to an unknowing of oneself…


    There are a few cases as with my own self, where the person is more than aware of who and what they are and represent, but it hurts for others to not see and assume the awareness false. This isn’t the typical case, as most people aren’t painfully self-aware. But in this case, it does also show that the self isn’t valued enough within, to be distraught when others cannot see one’s own representation, it symbolizes a lack of being rooted comfortably in being enough for one’s own alone. It is the result of trauma and an environment not meeting the inherent need. With one’s inherent drive towards wanting others to value them self, when they don’t want accept themselves if others cannot give to them love…


    What is grosser is the disregard others have for these human frailties. And typology is an ego game, to reinforce patterns, rather than evolve and of them outgrow. The communtiies are for this purpose. There is no community where enough individuals want transcend and become truly aware. Of their own being, others’ being and of nature its very self. I don’t expect people to see what I see with nature and its parallels. I am adept in foreseeing patterns and reflecting, and this reflection allows me to notice the subtleties that govern earth and with my intuition, perceive beyond to where they complete and interrelate…


    But, this world will never reach its heaven state with a lack of awareness to nature. And being aware of the self and surrendering to it, its limitations and gifts; the inherent frequencies it yields, is what it will take to uncover the veil of falsehood and hell created by man.


    True spirituality is about realizing the self, the collective, and the intricacies their own selves that thread the conscious; the mind and the earth, and beyond it, the universe that is parallel to the mind… The mind, the earth, the universe as an all-encompassing conscious. All as much illusory as the other. It isn’t about repeating some shoddy phrase, false figure, man-made book or the enneagram itself alone. It’s all-encompassing realization. It is surrender of self. Allowing others to be their own self, not enforcing what is unmade be.


    And rather than acknowledge nature, humanity has to make these parables to excuse-away knowing true divinity and what nature itself represents. With the enneagram, it is about marketing it in psychology and in business to enable the generational cycles of society as human apes. There is no true self showing to the front of an average person’s using, there is no compassion for another, with their limitations… And understanding that is where they fall short and aren’t made energy to charge by. This goes for socionics, this goes for meyers Briggs. Socionics has more awareness in this regard with its ITR dynamics. It’s just the people who tend apply it do not use it compassionately and use it to harass people.

    I want to see the heaven come around.. But with surrendering to my own making, I have heaven radiating within me.. This society is un-genuine and the reverse of it; hell. And people perpetuate hell with even, the enneagram.
    I’ve made metaphor in my book I am writing with hell and heaven in the enneagram and man-made spiritual symbols people have tried make to trace away from confronting nature..
    I am in my head; not society.

    Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am.​ Also, a brain angel. (But Zelda's incarnate too).


    My thoughts align with action to succeed what needs…


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    Something just occurred to me. People will say nature focus is higher SP, and yet this world is hardly connected to nature, it has enthralled in the high of electronic devices and work… It doesn’t make very much sense for nature to be SP, when it is hardly valued by majority of people, at least here in America. Perhaps an SP9 in Japan would be more connected, and so what I can be seeing is cultural… I believe nature has a zone of SP and SX, and this is also why it is more important to go by zones..


    If anything, the western society has sickened in largely from being disconnected from nature. There are some eastern places where it also is disconnected, as well..


    I would say that yes, SX/SP and SP/SX are naturally more connected to nature, and SX isn’t as common… But it isn’t as if SP/SX specifically is that much of paucity.


    To me, it’s more about the interest in nature.. To feel an intense immersion is more SX, to have a deep intimacy with the nature.. Whereas, being in nature to relax and reap health benefits, more SP.


    You can’t live without nature, and as with my own self being deprived of vitamin D from my lack of going out.. You wilt and decay without it, and become lifeless without the invigoration, and you lack energy flowing through you spiritually… Apart of why western society is so cruel, vapid, and synthetic is because natural focus isn’t valued, on both a physical and conceptual level.. It’s not even wholly about being outside with trees that is lacking, but people surrendering to life’s innate flow, and honoring natural workings within a person and their own development….

    And because people do not value this, they overlook what is meant be, just as it is meant be to have some degree of nature infuse life.. As electronics are a human advent and weren’t even intended to be used in this degree. It was meant be used with Earth’s natural resources having the properties to be able animate digitally, the possibility existed because it was destined for there to be these things.. But to be on a phone or computer all day isn’t meant.
    I am in my head; not society.

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    Just today.. I saw someone write about the type 4 as if it lacks a sense of self.. Thid isn’t true, at least on a conscious level.


    The 4 and the 1 have the *most* sense of self. Not having a *conscious* sense of self is attachment, which is why attachment types will adapt from their being disconnected from the self and intelligence center.


    How this person was describing 4 was 6. I’ll show in the comments..


    I will say that intrinsically speaking, a 4 and the other non attachment type image, 2 (as 3 already I’ve established wouldn’t have it), may not have a direct sense of self, because the image is what is averted on... A 4 knows that it is unique, different, separate, and believes it suffers more than of everyone, and is aware of what is lacking in them (how envy arises), and a 2 sees/knows itself as lovable, caring and selfless (though it is the opposite of introspective and goes out trying have others affirm it more directly than a 4).. But the image presentation deludes the ego and unconsciously, there is less self than the conscious, image presentation…


    In this sense, the core 1 has a stronger sense of self than 4, because it isn’t warped up in the image, and the whole point of 4 is to grow into the 1, meaning 1 is above it in a way, of its inherent lacking in structure.


    The unconscious may be the core of self, but to say that a 4 lacks a sense of self overall would be highly inaccurate to say. Because a 4 knows its downfall, lacking, and has a sense of its own identity, independent of external factor. It isn’t *confident* enough in itself and presents the image to compensate for shame…


    When I say independent of external factor, I mean the 4 reflects and contemplates through their own means. Obviously life is symbiotic and everyone is always taking in outside stimulus, processing it in. But most people do not contemplate and take it into their own processing and experience sphere, and require outside means to anchor on. They talk to others and try and relate to their experience, or look for some structure outside that confirms an identity (the instinctual variance determines what kind of structure or if it’s groups or a romantic interest or intimate). Whereas a 4 reflects and decides for itself, and what aligns with its own inner sphere, which it is highly attuned to.


    It would be similarly to putting water or rock in a tub. If you put water (attachment), it takes form of container. If you put a rock in, it stays contained, or always sinks down and knows it’s direction. But the 4 is a rock that is outside of the earth, and is rooted up to display and show an image of.


    Attachment types with a 4 fix more are like rocks that disintegrate into sand in the water. They’re more solid than water, but become water and have rocky segments in it.
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    641, the type that can have both 1 and 4 in it, would be rocky particles that float, with some sand in it, that still don’t sink and move about with the water relative to container shape.
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    Given I am writing a book about enneagram with aromatherapy, I just want say that I’ve had revelations on reflection of aromatherapy, in my own introspection throughout time of past few months. I see that people do not believe in aromatherapy, yet I see that marijuana gets a person high, anesthesia puts one to sleep and is inhaled, and there are lethal fumes that kill a person, and allergens that take in through a nose and cause allergic reaction… It may not be as intense as internal use, but the potency matters. I don’t believe people are used to their sense of smell compared to other senses, because the sense of smell bypasses the thalamus, and instead first professes in the cerebral cortex and amygdala.. It’s more concerned with the Limbic system.. So since the effects are more noticeably emotional, people may feel it’s “placebo”…
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braingel View Post
    Given I am writing a book about enneagram with aromatherapy, I just want say that I’ve had revelations on reflection of aromatherapy, in my own introspection throughout time of past few months. I see that people do not believe in aromatherapy, yet I see that marijuana gets a person high, anesthesia puts one to sleep and is inhaled, and there are lethal fumes that kill a person, and allergens that take in through a nose and cause allergic reaction… It may not be as intense as internal use, but the potency matters. I don’t believe people are used to their sense of smell compared to other senses, because the sense of smell bypasses the thalamus, and instead first professes in the cerebral cortex and amygdala.. It’s more concerned with the Limbic system.. So since the effects are more noticeably emotional, people may feel it’s “placebo”…
    Because the smell sense is more emotional, it would correlate far more to emotional reactions and the enneagram than other things.. Because the enneagram concerns the emotional body within the psyche; the Limbic system and all of this… What calms or moves a person would align the energy, and I believe plants parallel the universe as with all things, and have their own line movement and traits. They’re alive after all… And the enneagram reflects to them in a less nuanced way, or at least it seems less nuanced because humans cannot perceive the direct communication and abstract emotions of plants. This doesn’t necessarily mean they don’t secondary emotions. They may change colors or bloom more to communicate… Beyond just physical deprivations or met needs..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braingel View Post
    Given I am writing a book about enneagram with aromatherapy, I just want say that I’ve had revelations on reflection of aromatherapy, in my own introspection throughout time of past few months. I see that people do not believe in aromatherapy, yet I see that marijuana gets a person high, anesthesia puts one to sleep and is inhaled, and there are lethal fumes that kill a person, and allergens that take in through a nose and cause allergic reaction… It may not be as intense as internal use, but the potency matters. I don’t believe people are used to their sense of smell compared to other senses, because the sense of smell bypasses the thalamus, and instead first professes in the cerebral cortex and amygdala.. It’s more concerned with the Limbic system.. So since the effects are more noticeably emotional, people may feel it’s “placebo”…
    I have a small rollerball bottle of jojoba oil that has drops of peppermint oil in it and sometimes apply it to my temples and my neck. Walking outdoors, as the peppermint oil reacts with the cold breeze I get a sensation of liveliness when I otherwise feel sluggish. Using essential oils in general has been good for me to regulate my breathing - because I focus on taking in the scent slowly.

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    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...8/IMG_6803.jpg


    This is probably the worst thing I’ve ever seen by EU.


    What if the 4 is seeing spiritual parallels within the plants (what I value about it), and is focusing on it to delve further to understand the reality from an esoteric point of view.. To induce a psychological state that no one knows about, in the wondrous realm of plant kingdom, that no one has found.


    I’ve studied some rare plants that no one would know about, one of them I even talked about here: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...ibextid=qC1gEa


    I individuate myself in this way..


    I can see how a basic ass bouquet at a grocery store that’s all happy, positive colors is anti four… Or having all the most common plants around, that anyone can get and especially just getting them because you saw them on Instagram and decided it trendy.. But otherwise, no.


    You can go *really* deep with nature. Most people aren’t even aware of nature enough… Plus, some people may be high SP and just want plants around for health benefits, or they may be into aromatherapy.


    A 4 can be into aromatherapy.. it’s not that common of a field and has depth. Who can call themselves a professional aromatherapist?.. There’s a wide open area within it to be truly original, with little discovered in it.. Which also is partially what has drawn me it, and it is an abstract focus and I process the oils through my autistic synesthesia in a way no one can. Because even if another person has synesthesia, which already is only around 1% of the populace, no two people with synesthesia process the stimulus same, and have some conceptualization of it.


    What if a person has an exceedingly rare plant around them that no one has.. Like these certain bug eating ones.


    If all someone is drawing is sunny, relatable, common flowers.. okay, that’s not very core art. It’s not 4 core to just wear flowery attire all the time, or dress in flowers that everyone has…


    But to fucking say plants aren’t 4 period?…. Plants are used in spiritual traditions, to induce higher states that could be highly attractive to a 4 in its search for deeper meaning and states that few reach..


    It’s not anti 4 to wear myrrh.. Or to have some plant in your room that’s uncommon.

    Wearing a bland of natural oils is something that is far less likely “everyone else has”, that some shoddy target or Walmart perfume thag anyone can get.




    I doubt a 4 core would become a Gardner, but there are many ways that you can focus on plants that aren’t superficial or commonplace. That is just a failure to see meaningfully into plants.. Plants are so diverse and some so rare, and some out in the world will even hold the cure to cancer and new antibiotic drugs. To focus on these is a vast chance to be remembered in a way that is the most individual; the first to find a cancerous cure.


    Can literally have a high SP4 who has health issues and wants grow their own herbs and plants to ensure no pesticides are in it to activate autoimmune flare up. Or what about someone who likes LSD and mushrooms…


    They just don’t know what I do, because they’re not versed in aromatherapy or plants… It isn’t common at all to be an aromatherapist. You never see a person who is wholly an aromatherapist. You see naturopaths who use essential oils, but how often do you see a plant shaman.. Some 4 may even want study plants or essential oils to cast spells and dark magic with them.


    There are infinite ways to individuate through plant study. If someone is studying plants to further individuate, that’s strong 4 influence (core or second) or 5w4 core.. That’s just a lack of originality to say that plants don’t have depth. A failure to see in a novel way, in a world that hardly gives a fuck about nature, and it would actually be a way to individuate and immerse more into it, with how few of it on focus.


    If you don’t want a means others can relate to, then why even be into the enneagram, where yes, you can constrict how many people are a certain type with stricter definition, but it isn’t the type of one’s “own”.


    There are far more people who will be a type 4 core, than of a person (myself) who knows about plants that not even most scientists will know. 4 is already a rare type. And yet most scientists won’t know what Spanish Sea blue algae (“mermaid hair”) is, and that it prior to when that sea became contaminated with pollutants, had shown kill cancer cells. Something that now barely exists, and won’t even be talked about much, because its chemotypes from the industrial adulterants that plague the sea don’t have that botanical value to be anti cancer. A person who is *both* a 4 core, and who has all this arcane knowledge far more outside of just plants (and I’d made my own philosophy when I was 17, I plan one day release), that is a far better way to individuate than of merely identifying as a core 4. Merely identifying as a 4 core… Is nothing. It’s a rare type and is a way to separate, but to wholly attach to that is far more attachment itself (because it’s relying on a label alone to have an image), than having an interest in plants, when the interest in plants isn’t to have in common, but to further individuate, make a further philosophy regarding spiritual parallels to be intellectually original with your *own* takes, and have information no one has.


    If you identify as a core 4, and use the 4 core and/or mbti as all you have to separate yourself from others.. Then that’s either a 649 or a 469 with double attachment influence and the 6 fix for the 469 using a label as a primary domain to separate. But that’s only a 469, if they believe they’ve suffered more than of everyone, have the aligning triads, line to 2 and 1, and identify with only certain emotions that weave into the self-image. Otherwise, it’s a 649.

    ———————————

    Edit-

    Also, another thing I had forgot mention is that where I live (and have been raised) in CA is heavily metropolitan. There is scarce nature out here, in So Cal, unless you go up north or to the east (east is always more nature), and so it’s actually to have less in common with someone if you focus on or study nature. All you see are people who are on their phones and plump from their 9-5 jobs that have no purpose towards a more ideal society. When I was 16 and transported to a youth facility out in Wyoming, I was flabbergast to see how rural living was.

    It’s a pestilence that someone would even see nature as basic. Focusing on nature is how you have a world that authenticates emotion, understanding, and being itself. It to me shows that the modern world has killed the inherent instinct and perceptive abilities.. Ancestors had been able to communicate telepathically, sense when someone was hurt miles away and of them find… It seems always to me that indigenous peoples have heightened sensory perception.
    Last edited by Braingel; 05-24-2023 at 10:37 PM.
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    With this, I had left a comment.. I will copy and paste my full writing here for but this is something to reflect upon..


    From the enneagram perspective, social media is mostly used by social leads of course.. And many attachment and super ego values pervade it. Most of these values base on average health or lower, and just spread and perpetuate them and push others to low health..


    And with teenagers and young people, it is going to just make them rebel taking the internet away (there are many core 6’s, and it would also be the case for types like 7, 8, and even more assertive 2’s.. Social 3’s who want status).. With how an amygdala generally works at this age… So rather than take away, cultivating awareness on meaningful usage and of nature itself, is paramount. So they *want* be out in it..


    There is SX blind not connecting meaningfully and intimately with others because of social media, and also, disconnecting from nature itself..

    And of course, there are some aspects of typology where only in person can truly show what a person is, from what you think and perceive them as (I am not talking about things that show in the direct object relations and motive, line movement, and with cognitive functions. But rather, just behaviors that are superficially interpreted and assumed as a type, because you don’t see how the person actually is full-on, and how that behavior *actually* looks).


    Does social media help you as an individual develop, or does it stunt of you..?


    My comment:


    Look, as someone who is born in the time frame of Gen Z in the modern definition (there are some models where Gen Z isn’t considered until 2004 or 5, which I wouldn’t be one by this).. I don’t believe in the whole slang of these generational means to identify with, but “Gen Z” is the time frame where internet has shaped development—regardless of who a person is. Monumental things are the only thing that generational theory matters for overall.


    I actually can see why social media is so harmful in ways of many. I don’t believe you take social media away, because it actually can help mental health. I am autistic and have been abused by my family hideously for it. I cannot make real life friends, and so online is my only haven..
    It is the only medium where I can feel seen, and where I can actually display my insights, experience and whatnot.. With my inert and introverted nature, and with social difficulties.. And I can see other cultures and places in the world.


    But, I have dealt with a lot of crap from people without empathy, and have faced a lot of online harassment.


    People are cruel and harsh, and internet does allow them to just say whatever, when they’d never say something to their face. At least most of them..


    I don’t agree with the comments about parents needing restrict endless social media.. That will make most teenagers just rebel, especially with how an average temperament works.


    I also believe people are far too disconnected from nature. This is something that is truly making people obese, vitamin D deficient (I am myself), and have increased mental health issues. Even insomnia, with the whole blue wave ordeal.. Headaches with eye tension.


    Social media has things both good and bad of it. It’s about how it is used. I do believe this world would do better to purge itself out of excess social media usage… It doesn’t help brain development. It hinders health and overall, shortens life expectancy in ways of many.


    If you aren’t using social media in a meaningful way, it will hinder your spiritual development. It should only be used to be able communicate with others, and that doesn’t mean it should replace all of it, unless you’ve social difficulties or health issues where you have compromised immunity..


    How many people these days go out amidst trees, and read a book, or write poetry.. There is hardly any originality or imagination, because everything is conformity and absorption of what’s on the internet and “trendy”.. It is even “cool” to harass other people and “cancel” them.


    There’s a difference between canceling and voicing dislike and opinion. Emotional authenticity is important, the canceling is not.


    People get wrapped up in political BS and other things.. And throw around psychological terms as insults.


    The internet has shaped humanity for the worse, because people cannot use it meaningfully. Disconnecting from the internet and communicating in real ways and connecting with nature should take place, primarily.


    Social media should leave as a last resort means to communicate, when authentic communication can’t as easily take place. And cultivating appreciation for natural means in younger (and even older people) is the solution..


    https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...2/IMG_8071.png


    https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...6/IMG_8070.png
    Last edited by Braingel; 06-03-2023 at 08:29 PM.
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    This morning I’d awoken and insights were flashing through my own mind..


    I have already focused on how I feel primal therapy— a therapy that is widespread ridiculed and discouraged, would be good for withdrawn types; it would make a 4 to feel more seen and not feel their emotions are shut down, would work with the identified emotions, not against, would make a 9 more self-aware and less averted on dissociation, and get the 5 more in touch with their feeling.


    I hate modern psychotherapy. It is ubiquitously averted on what “works” for *most* people.


    You don’t really need therapy training, other than to know what kind of person you are dealing with, and with human frailties and nuances that affect the correct technique that is to employ.. It isn’t like surgery, where you have a universal approach to what needs “fixing”.


    I believe it misplaced for professionals to overlook typology. I was this morning have this course through me, after I awoke and had other revelations concerning my own self (one being that rather than hating my parents for their abuse of me, the root is I do not feel my emotions cared for and acknowledged by anyone—not even just them. I hate they deny me of my emotional right, and its own processes.. I’d a dream that I contemplated, where my father died, and observed past reactions), and even about certain types like a 6, where a good metaphor for a 6’s identity would be a screw, that isn’t screwed in tight enough…


    And then somehow, after I had this metaphor come to me of 6, I started reflecting (I remember now, my INFJ friend had once wanted be a therapist, and I was thinking how he would’ve been able to with his Ni, intuit the correct response, and imagined him now—without any training, as a therapist)… And I feel that professionals *need* to understand typology, or else truly, they’re futile therapists.


    The therapists and psychologists aren’t versed in the broad spectrum of varied human shades…


    You don’t even need training as much, as you need see the differences accross humans, and of what approach needs taking to stabilize a psyche, and to counteract its dysfunctional pattern.


    Typology should be apart of mental health professional’s training, but isn’t because it isn’t as quantifiable.. Well, neither are human psyches. There’s a reason clinical psychology is a doctorate of philosophy, not science. (I see that the primitive counselors would’ve just had use their intuition, with no data.. They were probably mostly INFX)..



    Before, I had reflected at the same time I had my primal therapy insights months ago, I had been thinking how for people with CPTSD, it is good to tell them they’re in a now adult body who can protect their inner child.


    For me, this makes me more emotional. It makes me to feel invalidated and that you aren’t going to treat my current emotions like they’re valid. And are taking away my chance for love and care of my emotions.
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    I had whilst out, also a metaphor come to me regarding the screw.. Whereas a 6 isn’t as tightly screwed in and is more likely undo because of life circumstances and its inherent skepticism regarding if it is or not secure including to its introjected objects, an image type that is hexad more is like a screw that is done in too well, and other areas of the screw aren’t in, and the screw, the image, is too focused in to the point other aspects don’t hold into a person’s direct conscious.
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    Only the area that is identified with of the self, holds up the person, and the rejection of its other aspects; for the 2, its showdown, for a 4, its positive emotions and more human, mundane qualities, makes it not a secure construct either, it’s just that the part that it’s screwed in is done very fastened, and it being what is most screwed in, makes the person desperate to cling unto, because it is how they process emotion and a sense of worth by… And screwing in the other bolts of the self into the conscious, is particularly painful.
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    In a way, 4 and 2 represent a philosophy I made when I was 17.. Concerning individuality and universal matters. One leans one way, the other goes opposite. The bridge is the means of health, which is apart of my philosophy..
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    In the 2-line theory, where you go both ways, and is actually what Naranjo had intended 4, the 4 is trying to up to 1 and 2, the 2 core, the 4 and 8.. They reach the bridge (I am not giving the term I created) when they integrate health.. And use the qualities unhealthfully of the other end when they fall.

    I am not going to give what my philosophy is, but it isn’t just about universality and individuality, and concerns other elements that govern the earth’s inherent working, I one day had as a revelation and contemplation at different times and merged them.
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    I’d written this in response to a person who had made a odor defending me, and this is my response.. I’ve decided out it here, because it has insight that carries lucidity…

    I do have a communicative style that would be hard for some to grasp, I tend to “skip” steps in my broad, top to down approach.. Plus, I focus a *lot* more on shadow aspects, than what is present and “good” about something; I am NOT for a fainted heart person. (I am insanely idealistic, but when it comes to the inner sphere and with what affects it, my focus is on what lacks. And I am idealistic about things and a future that can help reshape for more meaningful inner lives).


    And may sometimes pick wording that can throw off others.. For instance, with what others took offense to in that was that I said “unstable”, when I was meaning it in a connotation of inconsistency over time, with a screw not being secure in, so it’s prone move.. People didn’t see what I was trying to say, took it as if I were saying a 6 is unable to function out in the world and is always at the mercy of their inability to not stay consistent (their oscillation).


    Most people do not skip steps and build up, whereas I just said unstable, and I didn’t explain how the instability builds up, which lead others to assume I am meaning unstable in the context of a mental illness. That’s because they are down to top in their processing ways; they require an explicit, not read in between the lines, context.


    But overall, yes, with me, it would do well for someone to ask for clarification on what I am meaning..


    All in all, I appreciate this post.. I don’t believe it was necessary, but it is something that others should consider when they’re interacting or reading something of mine. I’m not going to just adapt my communicative style; I am how I am. If I use a specific word, I will just make a metaphor for what I mean, as I tend be very apt when to this, coming.. That is something I am willing, because I already incorporate this into my poetry and writing (and metaphors come to me in dreams and in my own awake contemplation), thus, it is inherently apart of me. They make a great deal of what I represent and are always weaving and turning inside me, come as onslaughts amidst my pondering something based on how I feel, or just the wandering thoughts alone.. Words thread through my heart and mind and configure a form that my thoughts can wear and show towards others, out in the world, and then they see how my conscious is dressed.


    ASD is a communicative barrier in this, and in my own mind, what I am trying convey has a specific meaning that may not be taken the same way as how I intend it, externally (from others). And I clash because of my inherent top down processing. And this world is way too down to top, needing all the direct implications. They don’t see automatically, from above, of what is from below.. And don’t realize the path in the sky to where it is towards, painted.


    I believe it is a combination of people intimidating by my rawness, my focus on what the underlying patterns are-even if they are not things wanted accept… And want focus on things as the enneagram to feel about their own self good, certain (and they seek out enneagram to feel more certain in their own self, to confirm their experience, because they don’t know, and therefore would rather identify with it as a metric and personality construct, than of it holistically as mechanisms that impede and even brought them into its study).. Not realizing the mechanism is actually, demolishing the life.. It is of my ASD making me unaware of how certain words or tonalities can interpret, and my self-confidence and self-absorption that can lead others to assume of me falsely and project their own fears unto me. If my words don’t weave into their own heart and minds, what they want it to, based on their own conception of how something is.
    My not withholding of how I feel about something or someone is also something others intimidate by. They want cling to the comfort of not knowing whether a person likes an aspect that is sensitive for them.. And would rather not have someone point out what is flawed.


    People only like others who adapt and cater to their own experiences, for the most part.. Because of human instinct. And people aren’t even aware this is an instinctual world, where laws, social norms, and behaviors all govern and define by these very instincts..


    Attachment even became more common, because it supports the instinct and enables the survival and function of this society. Gut types were once most common, more than likely…. And maybe 6 and 7.


    But it isn’t even a matter of like and dislike, when someone merely cannot understand, and is having feelings that ignite from their own bias and interpretation of what is said or acted… And then they weave a narrative of their own and store it in their nervous system that fuels a response when an image or concept of that person brings up. And it to begin with, is a concept of someone not being for, appreciated.. Because rather than the inherent traits and humanity, people dislike the concepts of those traits manifesting in specific ways— ways that conflict their own experience, emotional bias, and human instincts.


    A human (heart, brain… And nervous system in which gives feeling to the brain and to the heart to alert action from such given feedback) is made to reject what is different and a menace to their known experience.. To retain their comfort and not have a sense of doom that would be akin to primitive day chasing.. It is something they perceive as chasing and lurking, so they fight it or withdraw.


    I see through my intuitive reflection that this is why children even will ostracize those with autism or those who do not fit in with their known norm of species. That this is why matriarchal animals will abandon or kill off their young who are “too weak”, “too ill”, or “too much a burden” for their own realm of known, of their experience and emotion that gives signal, relative to their instinct.


    The fear is it will impact a person.. Or living entity.. And threaten their own existence/inner sphere. To a point it makes dysfunction. Even when the fear is based on illusory matters such as misinterpretation…


    That is what here has happened and what happens with most others who encounter me, regularly. All spirituality and inner work truly, is about trying obviate instincts that don’t serve, that represent a human animal and of not divinity. Because most spiritual practices and religions are made by humans, they tend instill with instinct, especially religion.
    I am in my head; not society.

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    Any type will be an unpleasant person to interact with at an ill enough health, but there are inherent incompatibilities.. It isn’t just the enneagram type matters, but there also MBTI, and things like Socionics intertype relations.. Not everyone is ever going to just find everyone attractive or someone they enjoy behind around.. Certain types may more likely try and get along with others out of defensive mechanism (or because it’s their set of functional focus to factor in everyone with if her Fe, and deny their own like/dislike distance to others), but it is unrealistic to expect every single type to automatically have an appreciation for every single other type.


    I do believe the goal is to try and have more empathy for all of the types and honor their inherent humanity.. Acknowledge their own attributes that aren’t their fault, and to be able see expectations they can actually meet, not just project your own unto them..


    That being said, I definitely do have a hard time with certain types. I don’t even expect most people to like my core type (4), other than most tritypes of 5’s, some healthier 8’s, 1’s who have accessed their 4 or who are SX, and of course 9, because 9 tries see the best in everyone and tends ignore the worst realities within a person.


    I tend have the hardest time with core 2’s and many variances of 6. I dated a 6, but he was an SEE in Socionics, and most the 6’s I’ve gotten along with have been other beta types that aren’t my own type (IEI). Then, 7 can be challenging for me in ways of many, as can certain levels of 8..


    Someone being one of these types wouldn’t automatically affect how I see them, as I judge by the individual.. This is how I’ve had 6 core friends and dated a 6..


    I don’t just have a lot of animosity for 2 because I’ve faced bad abuse by my core 2 mother.. My father has abused me more violently (he affected me way more in my formative years and fundamentally, I’ve way more “father issues” than mother), and he’s a core 8.. I tend like 8’s that aren’t at a 6 or below health level. It can partially be related to me being suggestive Se in Socionics, though, as many Se bases are core 8– especially SLE.


    There’s just an apparent clash with me and most core 2’s.. They tend to invalidate my emotions and compare me to others, and they tend be to me, emotionally fake, always adapting to the environment. This is especially true when they’re predominant in Fe.


    I have a very unhealthy core 2 mother, but I have seen other Fe 2’s just switch on from having been outright bitchy to a person, then just suddenly start to smile a few seconds later entering an environment. They’re extroverts who just are more east to adapt and don’t internalize, but knowing this doesn’t mean I’ve to like the behavior.


    I tend to view most 2’s that I’ve encountered as very shallow people. I have met healthier 2’s that I could tolerate more so, and they tended be SX leads..


    Their lack of introspection also drives me insane.


    I will just focus on low health, because that’s the type that really bothers me the most— the unhealthy variance of the 2..


    I absolutely despise how my mother will blame all the issues on me, act like I need help.. And yet deny her own issues. She’s a 279, which adds to it, because the fantasy, positive and other outlook fixes make for her to evade the reality or accepting her own issues rooted in the pride. She projects on me in a different kind of way than a core 6 will..


    Any time I will point it out, she’s automatically defensive because it goes against her prideful image. This ranges from me calling her out for her highly abusive behaviors, to just not finding something she did that great and I’m just too honest to say that I am not that impressed by it.. She wants constant praise and affirmation, rather than authenticity.. She would want to be flattered, even if it isn’t how a person feels truly, about her.


    She cannot accept how abusive she has been in blackmailing me out of reporting molestation and falsely making me out a schizophrenic to cover it up to police, her friends and extended family. She cannot accept that she has enabled the abuse of my father and instead, also she has done this with my molest, compares me to other abuse victims about how “they have it worse”, and how it “isn’t that bad”.. And is convinced some things she’s done that are abusive were to “help” me.


    When I tell anyone or I write about it and she finds out, she will take my phone and tell the people I’m “very mentally ill”, and cannot handle anything with this “way” she thinks I “demonize our family” to others, without telling anything “good” about it. She’s said she doesn’t like “airing out her dirty laundry, and that it isn’t anyone’s business to know about our family”.


    She gets defensive when I point out the abuse I’ve faced from my father and her marrying him only after 6 weeks. She’ll go on about how they’ve been married for this long, and how I’m making her feel like a horrible mother when she’s not.


    Even when I have shown her a Naranjo 2.. She has said she doesn’t agree with it and that she dislikes how “negative” he has painted the types. I realize I would have to hook her with more positive descriptions.. Because that is what would work for her.. But it is a bit irritating with my inherent communicative style.


    She’s pathologically unable to accept anything negative or abusive about her. It makes her of course to feel a unlovable person, which makes her to feel worthless.


    It’s just highly frustrating to me. Because I readily accept the shadow— even my own acquired emotionally abusive behaviors as the result of having been abused by her and my father, and molested and bullied…


    I have also had a core 2 life coach my mother had become friends with and forced me to see.. Who would help others try and lose weight to no longer be obese and hypnotize them to absolve insomnia. He himself was highly obese (350+ lbs) and was up all hours of the night, which I knew from social media posts and because if I texted him, he’d respond.. He then tried say one time when I was trying say something contrary to what he had wanted me to believe, he was controlling me as his 8 line, telling me he will call my parents to take my phone, and how I “need respect the only person who has always been there for me (you)”. I’ve personally found that most life coaches tend be unhealthy 2 and 3w2 cores. They tend be failed therapists or didn’t want go to college and have strict psychological protocols (which I don’t care about anyhow, it’s just that it means that virtually anyone can become a life coach if they get some certificate—even if they are psychologically unhealthy and are going to have counter-transference dynamics to clients. Because it’s not hard to get, and because certifier don’t as much screen for psychopathology, and society already doesn’t even do this as well as they should for psychotherapists). I see how life coaching would be attractive to a less healthful 2; they are helping others and gaining a sense of worth therein, whilst being able to deny their own issues further, and they can control others at the 8 line via coaching. It is an attractive means to enter to continue enabling their dysfunction.


    The giving to others what they *their own self* need is really something that I find distasteful.


    It’s a mutual clash. The 2 will view me as too self-centered, which I am.. But they will treat it as if it is the devil’s trait. Obviously, it’s because they’re a super ego type who is focused on giving away at the forefront of their image, as a rejectionist type.


    I’ve been scapegoated by several 2’s and 6’s, some even in this very group, before, with the whole Ingrid exchange, for my self-absorption. I don’t even care about people disliking my self-absorption, but if people are going to exaggerate things and treat it as if I am a stain on Satan’s sheets, and treat it as it is the most irredeemable trait a human can have, then I’ve a fucking issue. I’ve a fucking issue with it, when you’re going to deny me of my own pain, and call it invalid. Or if you make assumptions and blame me as the “issue” of my family, when you don’t even know how much strife I’ve been made to bear at the hands of my family. Even literally, with physical abuse from my father and occasionally, my mother as well.


    The world primarily bases on tribal qualities, and so to most people on an instinctive level, egocentrism is a “cardinal sin”. Whilst egocentrism isn’t a trait that should glorify, it enables more self-awareness and reflection— a trait many people apparently lack. It isn’t just some.. ”Satanic”, malignant quality.. It can perceive this way, because it goes against common survival mechanism and thus, it reads as a menace to others. “She wouldn’t have my back..” “She won’t be able to meet my needs, my family’s needs, my children’s needs”.. Is the instinctive message that others are going to unconsciously have signaling in their brain as it reverberates and then induces ”defensive” action.


    The irony in this is that the instinct is of the ego itself, and is egocentric. It just manifests in a way that isn’t overt egocentrism with a constant preoccupation with one’s own self.


    It really, is a preoccupation with preserving your own DNA, your own survival. And you’re hypervigilant of it going away.


    My nervous system and brain wiring are abnormal. Autism partially explains for this, but it’s further than my autism.


    Whether or not you want to accept it, you are an animal with animal cells, and a brain only separated from a monkey’s with the prefrontal cortex and higher volume. That enable an intricate language and advanced secondary emotions..


    You’ve atavistic instincts, that present in most life forms.


    The irony is also that in truth, you could’ve cared lesser about what has happened to me in my childhood. No adult cared to see what was happening to me, they didn’t care enough to verse in autism and see how my reactions to abuse are different, and couldn’t even recognize my reactions as symptomatic of abuse. Autism is thrown away and tried prevent from happening, because autism doesn’t represent survival chance, to most people. So there is no bother to look into it. Children engage their tribal instincts inherent from primitive day, and ostracize and bully what is different, fundamentally, they are sniffing out what will in the future not purport their own and “their race’s” survival. (This is at least, what I see from my reflection).


    And now that I am a legal adult, you can care lesser of what to me, happens. Because I don’t symbolize survival mechanism of the future as much, even though I am still a youth.. Which is why society does somewhat have programs for people ages 18-24. Just not as much giving care.


    The children and youth are cared for only to carry on the DNA and the creations of your own era.. No genuine care. And to be able take care of you in your elder years.


    You are, and always will be an animal trying to survive for as long as instinctive behavior governs you.
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    Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am.​ Also, a brain angel. (But Zelda's incarnate too).


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    Sure your dad is an e8 core? We often have screwed perceptions of our own abusers. Which They could have been a e2 in disintegration, insecure sx6, etc.

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    But on another note.. 2 also clashes with me, because I am too negative and critical towards what I find shallow in their behavior, and make them to feel they aren’t good or lovable enough.
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    With this whole.. Earth… It’s a perpetual orbit never ceasing its cycles about it.


    And with my own self.. I want to see to as a person who uncovers the hidden meanings and realities out beneath the conscious.. Want be remembered as revolutionary, and a talented poet, one who is of beauty emotionally, physically, and spiritually..


    But.. No one will even be able to recognize these things about me, for the most part, with how the world turns in its roundabout spin. Even if people may notice a figment of what defines me, they will wholly so out of humans instincts that motivate their own survival.


    It won’t be an appreciation for me, but for their own self through me. A person isn’t wired to care about me, you.. Anyone.. Other than their own self.


    I may be more overtly self-focused, yet others deceive their own selves, believing in selfless motive.


    People have children to preserve their DNA, and live in the illusion of their false love for offspring.. Relations are much the same of any sort.. Through time, there builds a dependency and natural chemical bond.. But without a cognizance thereof, it is illusory. It would show blank, if you pulled that imagined tapstery yourself and another have imagined through heart and mind. And put up at the very screen of your current conscious.


    There is no point in passing on offspring if the world cannot even love the creations, independent of instinct..


    There are mostly illusions and emptiness beyond what you think is here, in front, lying to you as your nervous system needs, or so it believes, to survive.


    Time is the vacuum that sucks everything that never existed back into the space.. Perhaps to continue on the cycle Earth already orbits..
    Rather than make a vacuum to suck out what doesn’t exist, and exist as the vacuum itself where the illusions have done away with, most people get sucked into the vacuum instead. To be immortal to time is to be the vacuum.. But for this… There has to be appreciation for the self.. To where the self can grab the vacuum, and make to its own. Otherwise you just suck right in as most people do, never graduating and always going right back in, until one time, they eventually can grab, with their conscious, the vacuum.


    Everything that is instinctual will lead to swallowing in what I have just said.. And will just digest back into waste upon the Earth once more, until the mind, body, and heart are realized they’re waste and detoxify of this.


    Those heart, mind and bodies literally become waste as they decompose in the earth and the energy just has taken a new life form to decompose until realization breaks the cycle.


    As instincts take form through bugs and vultures recycling your own waste and they remain in their own.. From your prior life remains.. Perhaps when it realizes steps towards, there is higher energy that recycles towards something as a tree growth, to reach taller height, symbolizing closer towards ascending to heaven..
    I am in my head; not society.

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    My thoughts align with action to succeed what needs…


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    The typology community is a place to harbor the patterns from childhood trauma and human adversaries within the psyche.


    It isn’t that typology itself, is something that is misplaced, it’s more about people lacking the health, awareness, and/or intelligence to use typology in meaningful ways.


    Group focus with typology isn’t even really the right way to go about using typology; it is the matter of interacting with others and remaining at a level that gratifies the ego patterns. Groups in general don’t serve well for things most.. But in these cases, it isn’t something a person should go about towards. When other people are in a group, it takes the focus off of their own self and the reasons that have made a person in of first places, have interest in these things, and especially for the enneagram.


    It becomes a matter of wanting validation for how others type you, and most people will want know the opinions had on other members.. When unless the undestanding of the typology is an incorrect one (of what the core type actually represents, how cognitive functions are defined actually, what triads are, or of impossible combinations), leads to many mistypings.
    Only compounded by peoples’ lack of psychopathological knowledge and of other typologies that concern other psychological organs and make up the psyche itself as an organ system… To where people focusing far too much on behavior, miss whwre actually, a behavior roots.


    I have engaged in this behavior out of stress, with having be the only 4 core, in the past.. And with this recency, it becomes a source of upset for me when others cannot agree upon my own self-typing, because my enneagram type whilst not being my identity, symbolizes traits and qualities that instill within my heart and mind, that I highly identify with, and when others don’t see me as that type, they ignore those highly valued qualities I want a person to value and within me, see…


    Typology groups are a perpetual cycle of gossip and disregard for a person’s own inherent humanity. It’s traumatized people averting on satiating their own learnt ego defenses, to cope with how shitty their internal reality is.. And detraction from healing these wounds, infecting them furthermore… With less focus on growth and instead focusing on meeting the needs of ego.


    People are consumed by their own instinctive pull to have met, their needs.. And so genuine care for their own self and others isn’t a possibility.. And if you don’t align their own ego, they will disparage of you.


    Typology groups are filled with people who just are trying to survive with their own patterns and learnt defenses. It isn’t a place that will result in the betterment for anyone, and you find few truly healthy people in these places.
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    My thoughts align with action to succeed what needs…


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    Typology is a place where something like validation and appreciation can come about for unrecognized and valued qualities throughout past, and I feel this lack given in early childhood makes for attraction to individuals experiencing unprocessed trauma—especially concerning emotional neglect and abuse (and that’s probably in part why many mistype as a core 4; they feel no one ever could understand them, yet those people aren’t like me, in that they are wanting to find people who do understand to relate to via typology). Other forms of abuse already most times accompany emotional abuse, and a lack of value for a person’s emotions. Perhaps, some people lack a self sense and weren’t given time to know who they are or they can’t hear with all the world noise..


    People who are healthy wouldn’t as much have interest in something like typology; they would already have grown and wouldn’t have interest or need validation.. Or for those types of people who feel lost, they would’ve found already, their own self.


    Healthy people wouldn’t feel a need to focus on what types another person is just for “fun”, or for intellectual status that doesn’t even concern the inherent welfare of a person.
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    And one thing lastly I have realized just now, is a healthy person wouldn’t feel need to stay in typology and make it the main focus of their life being in communities in its regard.
    I am in my head; not society.

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    I feel that the disdain for the work of Naranjo is vastly unwarranted. And I feel that most people who trash his work don’t read much of it first of all, don’t see the context of why some types embody traits of others, and don’t realize that the reason other authors come up with different explanations for types is on authors writing about different tritypes of a type, or they’re writing about a different type altogether.


    Naranjo has flaws and isn’t perfect by any means. I see that his critiques of Ichazo are misplaced and that he believes certain types have be X way, because he likely had clinical experience with more sensors (because they’d be more common given they are more so than intuitive types… With childhood issues, mental disorders as depression, schizophrenia.. Sensors being more common implies more sensors have mental illness and get clinical help than of intuitive).


    Naranjo was writing about types in their disintegrated points, which I’ve always said, but reading Character and Neurosis more seriously, I see the types described at their lines even more…


    People lack the big picture focus that I see in the context…


    Certain types of modernity have become other types.


    Some schools of 4 have become a 5w4 or a 3, losing the emotionality and focus on love and attention, getting frustrated over not having this. 6 core has become more that of 2.. An emotional, histrionic type..


    Only a 451/458 would fit the newer definitions of a 4 for some newer ones, and for 6, a 682/4…


    And some of those people who are mistyped 6 who are emotional are mostly 2’s, sometimes 8 (8 is more impulsive and uninhibited than of 6).. And very, very rarely (because 4 is uncommon), a 4. Some of the ”4’s” in newer systems are 5’s, 3’s, or a more detached 6w5.


    6 core can be emotional, like any type, with the right set of circumstances, like a disability that causes emotional dysregulation… But in general, a 6 should be one of the least emotionally focused type as a core head type.


    6 core is afraid of appearing weak. It doesn’t want to show negative emotions— whether phobic or counterphobic, that can make it feel preyed upon (phobic) or like they have lost competitive aggression to fend from the fear (counter). It has a line to 3. It will not want to appear emotional when stressed, and if it happens, then they’ll fly away to retain a competent image to keep the support (phobic), or attach even more with the emotion of anger in competition (rooted fear, counter). To appear stronger and not “weak”.


    6 core is an attachment type, because it attaches to some body, to feel emotionally safe and prevent from showing emotions that make them feel insecure and unsafe….


    A 6 when they have negative emotions and are phobic, may with the right trittpe and instinct, move towards others for support to help them hide and control their negative emotions that they can’t and are frightened of threatening people or potentials to see….


    2, 4 and 6 are the least correctly interpreted types in the enneagram.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braingel View Post
    I feel that the disdain for the work of Naranjo is vastly unwarranted. And I feel that most people who trash his work don’t read much of it first of all, don’t see the context of why some types embody traits of others, and don’t realize that the reason other authors come up with different explanations for types is on authors writing about different tritypes of a type, or they’re writing about a different type altogether.


    Naranjo has flaws and isn’t perfect by any means. I see that his critiques of Ichazo are misplaced and that he believes certain types have be X way, because he likely had clinical experience with more sensors (because they’d be more common given they are more so than intuitive types… With childhood issues, mental disorders as depression, schizophrenia.. Sensors being more common implies more sensors have mental illness and get clinical help than of intuitive).


    Naranjo was writing about types in their disintegrated points, which I’ve always said, but reading Character and Neurosis more seriously, I see the types described at their lines even more…


    People lack the big picture focus that I see in the context…


    Certain types of modernity have become other types.


    Some schools of 4 have become a 5w4 or a 3, losing the emotionality and focus on love and attention, getting frustrated over not having this. 6 core has become more that of 2.. An emotional, histrionic type..


    Only a 451/458 would fit the newer definitions of a 4 for some newer ones, and for 6, a 682/4…


    And some of those people who are mistyped 6 who are emotional are mostly 2’s, sometimes 8 (8 is more impulsive and uninhibited than of 6).. And very, very rarely (because 4 is uncommon), a 4. Some of the ”4’s” in newer systems are 5’s, 3’s, or a more detached 6w5.


    6 core can be emotional, like any type, with the right set of circumstances, like a disability that causes emotional dysregulation… But in general, a 6 should be one of the least emotionally focused type as a core head type.


    6 core is afraid of appearing weak. It doesn’t want to show negative emotions— whether phobic or counterphobic, that can make it feel preyed upon (phobic) or like they have lost competitive aggression to fend from the fear (counter). It has a line to 3. It will not want to appear emotional when stressed, and if it happens, then they’ll fly away to retain a competent image to keep the support (phobic), or attach even more with the emotion of anger in competition (rooted fear, counter). To appear stronger and not “weak”.


    6 core is an attachment type, because it attaches to some body, to feel emotionally safe and prevent from showing emotions that make them feel insecure and unsafe….


    A 6 when they have negative emotions and are phobic, may with the right trittpe and instinct, move towards others for support to help them hide and control their negative emotions that they can’t and are frightened of threatening people or potentials to see….


    2, 4 and 6 are the least correctly interpreted types in the enneagram.
    I believe that some self-types 1 and 5 cores are 6’s who don’t realize they’re a 6, because they feel too unemotional, when 6 isn’t supposed be vastly, being disconnected from the heart.. And a chunk of 6’s are 2’s…. Lesser are 8 and 4’s… And some modern typed 4’s are 6 core, 5 core and 3 core. As far as both Naranjo and RH. RH is fundamentally an enhancement of Naranjo, with triad augmentation.. But most can’t even correctly interpret those.

    Reactivity in a 6 is about moving away from perceived threats and showing anxiety or anger. Not discharging torrents of emotions.
    I am in my head; not society.

    Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am.​ Also, a brain angel. (But Zelda's incarnate too).


    My thoughts align with action to succeed what needs…


    Dragons:

    Babies, click them to make them grow up into Kara’s Dragon Museum





    My favorite adult Museum Exhibits

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    The Chosen Prophet. Braingel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braingel View Post
    I believe that some self-types 1 and 5 cores are 6’s who don’t realize they’re a 6, because they feel too unemotional, when 6 isn’t supposed be vastly, being disconnected from the heart.. And a chunk of 6’s are 2’s…. Lesser are 8 and 4’s… And some modern typed 4’s are 6 core, 5 core and 3 core. As far as both Naranjo and RH. RH is fundamentally an enhancement of Naranjo, with triad augmentation.. But most can’t even correctly interpret those.

    Reactivity in a 6 is about moving away from perceived threats and showing anxiety or anger. Not discharging torrents of emotions.
    The anger and anxiety can reach an extreme and magically just shift in a split second.. But no emotions like sadness, shame, guilt.. Are going to be shown to others unless they’re a close confidant..
    I am in my head; not society.

    Yes, that is who I am, hence the bold am.​ Also, a brain angel. (But Zelda's incarnate too).


    My thoughts align with action to succeed what needs…


    Dragons:

    Babies, click them to make them grow up into Kara’s Dragon Museum





    My favorite adult Museum Exhibits

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