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Thread: ILI-Ni vs LII-Ne

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    Question ILI-Ni vs LII-Ne

    What are the fundamental differences between those 2? From thought patterns, hobbies, behavior, social etiquette etc

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    There's a huge difference because one ignores Ne really badly and the other has it amplified, so you need to go and try to observe how Ne manifests itself in other people when it's strong and valued, so that you can compare yourself with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by persimmonism View Post
    There's a huge difference because one ignores Ne really badly and the other has it amplified, so you need to go and try to observe how Ne manifests itself in other people when it's strong and valued, so that you can compare yourself with it.
    Understandable.
    I like how i still can't decide whether I'm an ILI-Ni / LII-Ne after reading for hours, days or weeks, even after watching Gulenko, yet i easily know the differences for a certain subtype within minutes reading the description and understanding their use of each IM. Pain.

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    Hard time making decisions - ILI is good at having hard time making decisions. So many options, what to pick, hmmmmmm
    Maisy
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    Perpetual change"


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    Quote Originally Posted by Fransiskus View Post
    Understandable.
    I like how i still can't decide whether I'm an ILI-Ni / LII-Ne after reading for hours, days or weeks, even after watching Gulenko, yet i easily know the differences for a certain subtype within minutes reading the description and understanding their use of each IM. Pain.
    Let's just say, indecision and overthinking one single thing is a hallmark of IxI =)

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    I don't understand and can't relate where ILI is your typical "cold, business focused" type of person. The melancholy and overthinking part sure is accurate, but in terms of socializing with my close friends sure hell i can be loud and witty, jokes a lot aswell.I also seldom been really cold to anyone, though sometimes my criticism is harsh whenever I'm fed up with something

    I'll just assume I'm too young for me to use my "Te" in a business way or something if i were an ILI

    Also, at the first glance, i don't think i like SEE if it's my dual, ESE looks a bit fun tho, but can be too loud and impulsive? not sure, haven't talked to them properly for me to judge

    ILI-Ni does strengthen the Inert functions right, that means Ni-Fe-Fi-Ne is amplified, if that doesn't explain my earlier characteristics, maybe will LII-Ne...
    sigh

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fransiskus View Post
    I don't understand and can't relate where ILI is your typical "cold, business focused" type of person. The melancholy and overthinking part sure is accurate, but in terms of socializing with my close friends sure hell i can be loud and witty, jokes a lot aswell.I also seldom been really cold to anyone, though sometimes my criticism is harsh whenever I'm fed up with something

    I'll just assume I'm too young for me to use my "Te" in a business way or something if i were an ILI

    Also, at the first glance, i don't think i like SEE if it's my dual, ESE looks a bit fun tho, but can be too loud and impulsive? not sure, haven't talked to them properly for me to judge

    ILI-Ni does strengthen the Inert functions right, that means Ni-Fe-Fi-Ne is amplified, if that doesn't explain my earlier characteristics, maybe will LII-Ne...
    sigh

    Have you seen post #30 here: https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...Type-or-Type-)

    130 questions to differentiate between LII and ILI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fransiskus View Post
    I don't understand and can't relate where ILI is your typical "cold, business focused" type of person. The melancholy and overthinking part sure is accurate, but in terms of socializing with my close friends sure hell i can be loud and witty, jokes a lot aswell.I also seldom been really cold to anyone, though sometimes my criticism is harsh whenever I'm fed up with something

    I'll just assume I'm too young for me to use my "Te" in a business way or something if i were an ILI

    Also, at the first glance, i don't think i like SEE if it's my dual, ESE looks a bit fun tho, but can be too loud and impulsive? not sure, haven't talked to them properly for me to judge

    ILI-Ni does strengthen the Inert functions right, that means Ni-Fe-Fi-Ne is amplified, if that doesn't explain my earlier characteristics, maybe will LII-Ne...
    sigh
    Have you considered any other types besides these two?

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    Quote Originally Posted by aciaradh View Post
    Have you considered any other types besides these two?
    Yea actually. EII, then followed by LIE and IEI in terms of "relatability"
    @Adam Strange, I haven't. But that helps, thanks

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    Someone on these fora said that the difference between ILI and LII is their internal emotional life. ILIs are cold humans while LIIs are warm robots.
    "The salvation of the world depends on the men who will not take evil good-humouredly, and whose laughter destroys the fool instead of encouraging him." - George Bernard Shaw

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    Comparing type per type is fine, but subtype per subtype is somewhat unproductive. If you want hot comparative subtype analysis look at DCNH subtype system. More varied, formulated, and accurate. For type versus type analysis I have a transcription of Ben Vaserlan hangout with Viktor Vladimirovich (Doctor Gulenko) and will send you the good stuff.

    Most things in the bracket forms a personal commentary and general observations.

    Area of comfort:

    ILI : independence of choice

    LII : freedom from pressure, force (Brake Se)

    Systems:

    LII: social mission: improving and perfecting systems (Ti-)

    ILI: social mission: determining the evolution of systems over time (Ni-)

    Logic:

    ILI: focuses on strategies and prognosis. Uses logic as a tool (creative function). Uses systems to solve the problem of prognosis. Therefore, not a systems improver but a problem solver (logic as a means to an end providing more scope in problem solving) so indifferent to the notion of which system to involve as the main goal is to solve the problem. Ni(-): what can go wrong and how to fix it? [eg. BBC's Sherlock, Control Ni]

    LII: thinks about the profits of his theories but not about solving the problem. Uses fractal logic. Multi-factor, complicated systems delicious for the Analyst.

    ILI: makes better ‘use’ of systems using step-by-step approaches. Wants to find one problem-solving decision which will be optimal

    1-Memory: (basically static/dynamic)

    LII has a fixed, static memory, remembers things he works on a particular moment, or time.

    ILI can keep different things at the same time in his memory which is associative. Remembers different types of data not connected to the problem being solved right now. More erudition since they have more details, knowledge about different things.

    2-Types of people, getting along with:

    LII exists with people who are very emotional but who care about sensing needs (mobilising Si+suggestive Fe, hidden agenda+duality) and sometimes, too much. Response to such people is gratefulness. Doesn’t like forcing or pressuring people. Not good in faring against such aggression.

    ILI is the opposite and okay with people who pressure or test him to see how he reacts (Manipulative Se). Dislikes and cannot stand emotional assistance or atmospheres, especially when people want to reciprocated by their own ‘gratefulness’. Can’t really stand emotional praise, gets on their nerves (Brake Fe). Responses to emotional praise : yelling or falling asleep, the first being a defensive measure.

    3-Managing abilities:

    LII prefers decentralised and smooth managing, prefers to deal with small groups and work on separate projects; without a totalitarian approach. Has bad entrepreneurship characteristics, won’t implement business ideas himself.

    ILI manages big groups (better), totalitarian, centralised management style. Marshal’s type of management. Better entrepreneurship capabilities. Much better in formal, predictable, structured situations. More interested in economic theories (Ni-).

    4-Speaking Skills:

    LII naturally a better speaker (static, perceives time as discrete intervals, Ti uses static structural deconstruction).

    ILI can be trained in ethics and evolve the speaking skills (Vaserlan: they learn NLP; Dario Nardi examples).

    5-Strategies: (briefly discussed)

    ILI better strategist.

    LII doesn’t look too far (static).

    6-Response to new situations:

    LII reacts to new situations with his analysis and tries to elaborate new ways on how to approach it.

    ILI figures out how the situation evolves (preferably using past solutions and data; Ni-) and uses logic as a creative tool to classify (not analyse) the situation. Uses already known approaches to solve problems.

    7-Attention to details:

    LII ruffles big systems and puts details next. First step for LII is an abstraction of a rough big system.

    ILI more attentive to details. ILI is the opposite and constructs the whole system from details (Se-Ni).

    8-Focus on past:

    ILI focuses more on the past, melancholic about the mistakes (Ni-).

    LII more optimistic and thinks positively about the future possibilities (Ni+), calmer, stabler temperament.

    9-Conversational skills:

    ILI better conversationist, can speak on any topic, interesting or not, till he gets tired, not paying attention to politeness, ethical factors not taken into account. Business style of conversation.

    LII only when interested (but will be polite; Role Fi).

    10-Role + Launcher/Mobilising functions:

    LII: Weak emotions but can be trained (Role Fi) but practical/hands-on skills hard to improve (Launcher Si).

    ILI: Easily drained by emotions (Launcher Fi) but hands-on skills easy trained (Role Si).

    11-Argument styles:

    LII: Likes peaceful (but involving everyone) conversations (by emotional warmth) but without too much irony. Doesn’t like joking about others’ mistakes (Role Fi).

    ILI: Opposite, likes discussions to be practically efficient/businesslike, likes pointing out flaws/mistakes in others’ points, ironical remarks, discussion as a means to confirmation. Has a tendency to joke about his conversationist’s mistakes, utilising sarcasm.
    Last edited by The Iconoclast; 06-22-2022 at 11:28 AM.





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    Thanks, sir @The Iconoclast

    ----------------

    Area of comfort:


    ILI : independence of choice

    LII : freedom from pressure, force (Brake Se)

    A : definitely, i really despise pressure.

    ----------------

    2. Types of people, getting along with:

    LII exists with people who are very emotional but who care about sensing needs (mobilising Si+suggestive Fe, hidden agenda+duality) and sometimes, too much. Response to such people is gratefulness. Doesn’t like forcing or pressuring people. Not good in faring against such aggression.

    ILI is the opposite and okay with people who pressure or test him to see how he reacts (Manipulative Se). Dislikes and cannot stand emotional assistance or atmospheres, especially when people want to reciprocated by their own ‘gratefulness’. Can’t really stand emotional praise, gets on their nerves (Brake Fe). Responses to emotional praise : yelling or falling asleep, the first being a defensive measure.

    A : if i have a friend with strong Fe, i would probably know my Socionics already

    ----------------

    8. Focus on past:

    ILI focuses more on the past, melancholic about the mistakes (Ni-).

    LII more optimistic and thinks positively about the future possibilities (Ni+), calmer, stabler temperament.

    A : sounds about right.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Fransiskus View Post
    Yea actually. EII, then followed by LIE and IEI in terms of "relatability"
    Okay gotcha, that makes sense. I don't have anything concrete to go on yet.. but I was curious as your writing style struck me as having high intuition (and possibly high ethics). As a result, I was thinking EII-Ne and IEI-Ni might be possible as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MexicanJumpingBean View Post
    Someone on these fora said that the difference between ILI and LII is their internal emotional life. ILIs are cold humans while LIIs are warm robots.
    This is a stereotypical assumption from the MBTI community. But I believe that can be asserted some truth in it. Indeed, LIIs at a distant distance appear to be very incomunicative and cold. Part of this impression vanishes when you get close to them (E6 Manipulative or Suggestive) cause they are very open to emotions and festive atmospheres and so on. They seem to be this warm machine.

    With ILIs matters are distinct from their quasi-identical peer. In both distances (close or distant) they will seem cold because they are not much receptive to emotions (E7 Brake or POLR) and try to restrain their emotion expression. However, they are really sensitive and use this mainly as a mean of protection. Makes sense that ILIs are the coldest humans, at least from a external perspective (this perception can also change when you meet D or C ILI subtypes).





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    Quote Originally Posted by Fransiskus View Post
    I don't understand and can't relate where ILI is your typical "cold, business focused" type of person. The melancholy and overthinking part sure is accurate, but in terms of socializing with my close friends sure hell i can be loud and witty, jokes a lot aswell.I also seldom been really cold to anyone, though sometimes my criticism is harsh whenever I'm fed up with something

    I'll just assume I'm too young for me to use my "Te" in a business way or something if i were an ILI

    Also, at the first glance, i don't think i like SEE if it's my dual, ESE looks a bit fun tho, but can be too loud and impulsive? not sure, haven't talked to them properly for me to judge

    ILI-Ni does strengthen the Inert functions right, that means Ni-Fe-Fi-Ne is amplified, if that doesn't explain my earlier characteristics, maybe will LII-Ne...
    sigh
    @Fransiskus ILI-Cs are sociable and jokesters. (socioniks.net has descriptions for ILIs of the four subtypes).
    Last edited by The Iconoclast; 06-22-2022 at 07:32 PM.





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    Quote Originally Posted by aciaradh View Post
    Okay gotcha, that makes sense. I don't have anything concrete to go on yet.. but I was curious as your writing style struck me as having high intuition (and possibly high ethics). As a result, I was thinking EII-Ne and IEI-Ni might be possible as well.
    Well, that's a possibility. I might have high Ethics usage, as i was considering the possibility of being EII few months back due to me being pretty sensitive to criticism, as one of my friend stated.
    Last edited by Fransiskus; 06-23-2022 at 07:16 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Iconoclast View Post
    Thanks. I also read the LII-C description.
    But both of these descriptions are pretty short

    I'll just read more about DCNH later

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazymaisy View Post
    Hard time making decisions - ILI is good at having hard time making decisions. So many options, what to pick, hmmmmmm
    Interesting. I've never had much of a problem once I've come to one but damn did it take me quite awhile relatively speaking. It's actually a double frustrating point in regards to my family. I take awhile to "decide" on a thing. Once I have though? Sometimes they're frustrated with my decision after I've clearly given it my all!

    Friggin' LSE mother and likely...

    Fucking hell my own father is so dismissive/avoidant I can't even type him right now but I also know for damn sure he's a "rake" in seductive terms and, well, all that tracks so hard I'm shocked this shit isn't being taught in public schools.

    Interesting query to all who read this: What type do you think Ada Lovelace was? Byron (yes, as in Lord Byron) was a quintessential rake and her undeniable father. Yet Ada was also his only "legitimate" offspring. His "Princess of Parallelograms" as he put it.

    This is a person who was Bi, literally fucked his own Half-Sister, and never tried to hide that shit. A man who was fucked in the head harder would need to involve demons. Possession or obsession. One or the other...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fransiskus View Post
    I don't understand and can't relate where ILI is your typical "cold, business focused" type of person. The melancholy and overthinking part sure is accurate, but in terms of socializing with my close friends sure hell i can be loud and witty, jokes a lot aswell.I also seldom been really cold to anyone, though sometimes my criticism is harsh whenever I'm fed up with something

    I'll just assume I'm too young for me to use my "Te" in a business way or something if i were an ILI

    Also, at the first glance, i don't think i like SEE if it's my dual, ESE looks a bit fun tho, but can be too loud and impulsive? not sure, haven't talked to them properly for me to judge

    ILI-Ni does strengthen the Inert functions right, that means Ni-Fe-Fi-Ne is amplified, if that doesn't explain my earlier characteristics, maybe will LII-Ne...
    sigh
    The ILI comes off as cold and business focused because that's how / tends to work. is the PolR so yeah, we don't emote all that good. is the motivating function so you can be damn sure that if we decide to give a damn about your cause or you as an individual you can be quite secure in the knowledge we'll do our best to do right by it.

    It is the lamentable fact that the "Iron Law of Bureaucracy" fucks us ILI's so hard for good reason. End of the day, I just want to accomplish the stated end goals. Problem is, well, those who are more about preserving the existence of a bureaucracy and expanding its budget to infinity tend to end up running it.

    Like Ronald Regan said: "There is no such thing so permanent as a 'temporary' government program"

    Not sure if that's exact but I know that's close...

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    What type do you think Ada Lovelace was? Byron (yes, as in Lord Byron) was a quintessential rake and her undeniable father.
    I think Ada and Byron were both IEI

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fransiskus View Post
    I don't understand and can't relate where ILI is your typical "cold, business focused" type of person. The melancholy and overthinking part sure is accurate, but in terms of socializing with my close friends sure hell i can be loud and witty, jokes a lot aswell.I also seldom been really cold to anyone, though sometimes my criticism is harsh whenever I'm fed up with something

    I'll just assume I'm too young for me to use my "Te" in a business way or something if i were an ILI

    Also, at the first glance, i don't think i like SEE if it's my dual, ESE looks a bit fun tho, but can be too loud and impulsive? not sure, haven't talked to them properly for me to judge

    ILI-Ni does strengthen the Inert functions right, that means Ni-Fe-Fi-Ne is amplified, if that doesn't explain my earlier characteristics, maybe will LII-Ne...
    sigh
    PoLR - Extroverted Ethics, Fe
    ILIs feel uncomfortable openly expressing their sympathies and positive affects. Thus, they may be seen as sober, practical, even utalitarian in their judgements, as well as emotionally cold and undesiring of relationships, however, this is often not the case. As a consequence, ILI may become reclusive and often feel out of touch with others. They may feel unconfident and uneasy in social settings, especially those in which they feel that are expected to abide by social conventions that they have little connection to such as tribesmanship or purposeless joviality. Additionally, ILIs tend to regard the development of trust with others with significant anxiety, fearing that their inner world or antisocial tendencies will be unfavorably looked upon by others, and that most of the good will and friendliness they see in others is a pretense of social interaction rather than an expression of genuine emotional reactions. Often ILIs eschew many social situations and neglect emotional association with groups, instead seeking deep emotional connections with individuals.
    ILIs are often seen as especially negative, overly critical, and sometimes harsh in their judgments. This is in part because ILIs -- when serious -- tend to communicate in a very direct, straightforward manner. They are often unaware of others' reactions to their statements, which may be overly pragmatic and lacking in compassionate consideration. Many ILIs see their criticism as constructive and believe that they would be doing others no good by withholding their ideas. Because of their incessant criticism and negativism, ILIs are sometimes seen as haughty or arrogant.
    Suggestive - Extroverted Ethics, Fe
    LIIs are usually lacking in outward emotional energy. LIIs may typically seem stiff, cold, rational, unresponsive to emotional concerns, and overly formal in social settings. LIIs may feel uneasy and insecure about their adaptability to social situations. They appreciate the interactive efforts of others to make them feel comfortable, at ease, and a part of the group. They tend to liven up in situations of amusement and conviviality. In situations where they feel comfortable and unconditionally accepted, they may drop their tendency towards aloofness and engage in uncharacteristic silliness.
    LIIs may be highly sensitive to the signs of emotional approval that they receive from others. They may be highly appreciative of displays of emotional warmth and friendliness. They may find normative emotional expectations placed on them to be stifling, and tend to prefer nonjudgmental environments without character scrutiny. Additionally, for fear of emotional reprisal, LIIs often tend to be rather noncritical of others' actions.
    LIIs may be quite susceptible to acting in accordance to the mood of others, and may undervalue the importance of avoiding argumentation on their mental well-being.
    What you listed is not characteristic of 1D Fe types although more plausible for LII than for ILI, I suggest you to consider other TIM, like ILE, EII, or IEI (In fact half of the "self-typed ILIs" of this forum post almost everytime Fe-related content)
    Last edited by RBRS; 06-25-2022 at 01:41 PM.

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    I was considering the possibility of ILE... Still considering...
    About EII. I don't think i really "relate" to it that much from reading the descriptions, especially that high of Fi
    IEI is too "dreamy" i gotta say, don't know. Haven't read that much to judge

    I've been considering LII-Ne for a while now after reading a lot of descriptions from a lot of websites / threads across the internet, but i thought that it's prone to be biased so i created this thread to gain external validations
    It is in my principle to be honest and fair to myself, and "trying" to be objective is one of them.

    I cannot force myself to be, for example : ILI
    That's just betraying my real sense of self and it's really biased
    Heck, maybe this is still me "trying" to be like that, even though i normally don't but because i found ILI / LII to be interesting so i tried to be like them subconsciously after reading the descriptions, who knows.

    There's just too many paradoxical thoughts within my emotions and thoughts, it's difficult to know which is the real me, or which is me trying to be my ideal self.
    Emotions are too difficult for me to comprehend sometimes...
    Last edited by Fransiskus; 06-25-2022 at 12:23 PM. Reason: grammar

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    I've been considering LII-Ne for a while now after reading a lot of descriptions from a lot of websites / threads across the internet, but i thought that it's prone to be biased so i created this thread to gain external validations
    It is in my principle to be honest and fair to myself, and "trying" to be objective is one of them.
    Two things, first, you don't have to apologize nor justify for wanting to clear out your type, second, when I was starting out in socionics I tried to do the same (to get objective validation) but doing this in this forum will lead you down a confusion spiral. People here are ironically better at anything they do except for socionics. Try to go to other places, there's also discord servers which will type you for free I think.

    I cannot force myself to be, for example : ILI
    That's just betraying my real sense of self and it's really biased
    Heck,*maybe*this is still me "trying" to be like that, even though i normally don't but because i found ILI / LII to be interesting so i tried to be like them subconsciously after reading the descriptions, who knows.
    That's exactly what you should do, be yourself, not some old russian grandma's view of TIMs. It might be, afterall, that socionics doesn't work (there's a lot of arguments to be done for that) and it doesn't encapsulate how human cognition works. Don't take it too seriously, at first it seems like this is the key to understand everything, but it is actually the key to do the opposite.

  24. #24
    in dire need of needing life Fransiskus's Avatar
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    Understandable, that's what i thought too sometimes, but Socionics is too interesting for me to abandon lol

    For now, i consider myself more closely to be a LII-Ne compared to ILI-Ni after enough readings, though it's a very close call

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fransiskus View Post
    Understandable, that's what i thought too sometimes, but Socionics is too interesting for me to abandon lol

    For now, i consider myself more closely to be a LII-Ne compared to ILI-Ni after enough readings, though it's a very close call
    I posted this elsewhere but I'll post it again as it's relevant. Say we're two utter strangers and you ask me if I think life is a game. Ceterus Paribus we'll assume both I and you possess a secure attachment style and see that as just an honest question and nothing more because of that.

    If that resonates with you hard than you're an ILI/Gamma because of how / pairs with /. If you'd like to argue how I'm somehow wrong about that that's because you ain't an ILI/Gamma but that doesn't mean you're an LII either. How and why you fundamentally disagree with me will be rather significant. It's a critical data point and thus we can't go forward without it being supplied.

    If you'd like to stop here and figure it out more slowly I both get and encourage that. If not, well, like I've said before. Don't ask the likes of me questions you truly don't want the answers to.

    ain't my strong suit and my attempts to make it gentle may do exactly the opposite. I mean well, but I will probably botch the delivery. Even so, I'd dare you to find the lie...

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    I posted this elsewhere but I'll post it again as it's relevant. Say we're two utter strangers and you ask me if I think life is a game. Ceterus Paribus we'll assume both I and you possess a secure attachment style and see that as just an honest question and nothing more because of that.

    If that resonates with you hard than you're an ILI/Gamma because of how / pairs with /. If you'd like to argue how I'm somehow wrong about that that's because you ain't an ILI/Gamma but that doesn't mean you're an LII either. How and why you fundamentally disagree with me will be rather significant. It's a critical data point and thus we can't go forward without it being supplied.

    If you'd like to stop here and figure it out more slowly I both get and encourage that. If not, well, like I've said before. Don't ask the likes of me questions you truly don't want the answers to.

    ain't my strong suit and my attempts to make it gentle may do exactly the opposite. I mean well, but I will probably botch the delivery. Even so, I'd dare you to find the lie...
    You single-handedly came up with the cheapest, most banal typing method, no offence intended. There's a thousand nurtural circumstances for any thought like that.

    Gamma IMs are just that; IMs. These are filters for information, not "thinking patterns" as with some MBTI variants, there's no necessary thought coming along these filter combinations directly.

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