"The right way"
What's your perspective on the idea of having to do things in a specific way aka the "correct method".
is this related to Te? do you rely on "figuring things somehow" when you have less enough information on a subject?
I'm, 65% sure I'm ILI, I know for certain that something intrigues me about Fi, ever since I was a little kid, but I'm not a lover for book learning, and I tend to use my own reasoning WAY more often than others.
Te isn't right or correct, but it is "efficient" Productive with the least amount of resources wasted... but productive (and profitable) for whom? The Fi vision of the company, whatever the creator of the system wants it to be essentially - it's not right, it's narcissism. People will still be drawn into it though- especially if it's four dimensional.
Te often prides itself and how right it isn't and how it doesn't care about that in fact. Te is like the function that will get arrogant and condescending because even a broken clock is right two times a day. Te doesn't want to be right, but it does want to collect objective data for some Fi agenda. Te is also dynamic, so very dynamic that it can't really 'care' about being right or correct. This is why it dualizes with Fi attraction/repulsion and preferences because it's so fast-paced.
so in Te's eyes- I have no nuance. I'm just some homo that needs to go on PreP and have a drag queen tell me to love myself because that's what the IEE bulletin board says. It's already moved on to the next inaccurate and stupid bullshit thing that's not right- but it will end up being right, eventually- cuz even a broken clock is right twice a day.
you'll have to correct me on this, are you saying Te/Fi people will want to believe anything as long as it supports Fi?
again I could be misinterpreting what you said
Yeah often, although 'believe anything' has Ne mixed in too mayhaps. The Fi bias can be so strong they need to twist the facts to suit that. Efficiency and proper production means a lot of facts and knowledge and 'things' need to be streamlined into the system. What doesn't work (for the system and owner of system) will be discarded, data and information that doesn't suit its main agenda - I don't see them listening or handling info that doesn't align with its goals much at all - even if it's 100% right.Originally Posted by LadAhmed
Yeah 'they just want your money' is true of course but naive. It's often not the be-end-all even if it appears that way. At first maybe that's what Te wanted of course, but remember Te is dynamic. So maybe it wanted that in the beginning, but it also wanted to see you suffer because it doesn't like you and is repulsed by you (Te and Fi mixed) It already is profitable enough in a way that satisfies the Fi dualistic side, so it's different now. Then it wants your money again so it needs to put on some 2D Fe role to try and dupe you again. Once the owner and creator of the system... I mean the goals can change so often, that is all part of the dynamicism. Perhaps weirdly down the road it even wants to genuinely connect with you and earn your redemption, as surprising as that can be at times.
If I'm making Te-in-a-vacuum sound like a heartless narcissist- that's because it obviously is. It's a cold and cruel Nurse Ratched system, of course. But Te is also intrinsically tied with Fi the way Se and Ni are linked up... so I mean, it will also use the system to protect you if it personally likes you. You see this all this time in the Te work force, where a person gets ahead just because the boss and "higher ups" like her. No other reason. She's not that skillful or effiicient herself, maybe not even particularly nice or compassionate- that doesn't matter. It's Fe irrelevance to Fi in a sense. They just are attracted to her and like her and are devoted to her, so she's gonna get the job.
Okay I realize this is heavily critical but I still think I'm accurate and I am Fe/Ti valuer after all lolol.
theres factors interrelated to what happens
if u do things a certain way certain things happen depending on the factors
u dont always know all the factors so u dont always know what happens
there may be a way that leads to bad things u dont want and there may be a better way
whatever things they lead to some ppl may be concerned about and others not
there may be a more efficient way for u to do something whose consequences harm others
there may be a more efficient way to do something like faster but it will hurt ur health and ur whole plan overall more due to the consequences
since there are many factors there can be many ways, the context limits gives whether its right or wrong but this can mean ur not thinking outside the box so not coming up with a better way
i see it as that kind of relative nuance. "right" can just mean "better", and this also means there may be many right ways
https://linktr.ee/tehhnicus
Jesus is King stops black magic and closes portals
self diagnosed ASD, ADHD, schizotypal/affective
Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality
I want to care
if I was better I’d help you
if I was better you’d be better
Human Design 2/4 projector life path 1
i recently spoke to an LSI about her thinking some form of control is good and how when going to an opera performance u should dress respectfully which irritated mem, she said its a culture capital so if u dont want to dress that way go live in a village. allegedly villages there arent much short of cities (tho ofc shed claim that)
i dont nderstand how anyone can justify to themselves that there must be a specific way things are done and force it on other ppl or move away.
i also dont like when psychos use my logic here to argue that morality/ethics is a form of control. its true that a lot of unethical ppl claim their opressive rules are morals and in that sense morals are nonsense. but u can keep defining words as u want while dodging what the other person means forever
https://linktr.ee/tehhnicus
Jesus is King stops black magic and closes portals
self diagnosed ASD, ADHD, schizotypal/affective
Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality
I want to care
if I was better I’d help you
if I was better you’d be better
Human Design 2/4 projector life path 1
My dad is "probably" an LSI and this idea reminds me of him a bit, he's the God of do-it-this-way! and way too academic in his approach to learning things (he claims to be good at math which he is but in a book way)
I ended up picking a similar major to the one he took (he took computer engineering and I took computer science) and he admitted to me that he sucked at programming (he did not pick his major based on interest but needed the degree to increase his wages), I myself am really good at coding, in fact I'm considered the smartest coder in my class.
so yeah, I just wanted to rant about how much of a smartass I am
They irony is how you're being judgmental towards Te/Fi for "basing their decisions on who and what they like and what they don't"
I don't care about being judgemental - and I don't even really care that they are that way to me, that's a non-issue to me. Ppl are going to be judgemental by default, sometimes gammas are a bit too naive with the democracy thing. I already am well aware of how harsh I sound to Te but like I said it is my polr and I don't value it.
Didn't ask you to care, I simply just made a point which you can take it or leave it
it annoys the crap out of me when someone tells me I’m doing something, “the wrong way”. I actually don’t know if there is a right or wrong, philosophically speaking, for one, and for another, different ways can be better under different circumstances. Now, if someone said, “this is easier”, I would be ok with that. “More efficient”, I might or might not do, depending if I think it’s easier lol. If someone said, “that’s not the right way.” I’d think, “kiss my ass
”.
Last edited by Aster; 05-10-2022 at 04:56 PM.
Exactly my thoughts!
I think the correct way entirely depends on what the person is trying to do and what they want out of the action. I have read that Te-Fi types are "objectivist" and Fe-Ti are "subjectivist".
https://www.sociotype.com/socionics/dichotomies/r3t1They are inclined to offer (or impose) what they see as the 'best' or 'correct' way of doing something ('it should be done like this'). If they think something is done incorrectly, they ask WHO did it that way. When speaking of optimums, they are inclined to do so objectively (the 'absolute' optimum)
I partly agree with the above statement. I have a good idea about how something should be done. If something is done incorrectly, I don't really care who did it necessarily, just that it is corrected.
This is just strange, even Ti egos will have a good grasp of Te. Its a fact that there are certain truths about the mechanisms of the world that can't be changed simply by one person's opinion (ex. the 2nd law of thermodynamics). The worst perpetrators of solipsism is LII and IEI. But that's not really what they are talking about.Inclined to believe there are 'objective truths' the truth is not always relative. Therefore, they believe that there are two types of actions/perspectives: those which are subjective (connected with personal preferences and motivations) and those which are objective (only one 'correct' or 'best' way of doing something). Whether something is correct or not is judged by comparing it with what they see as 'objectively correct'. In disagreement, they first attempt to make sure that the other person understands the concepts and terms 'correctly'.
Something as objectively correct means what exactly? It's a vague and ambiguous statement. A decision, perhaps? Te is an extroverted judging function, decisions based on action in the outside world. Well, time and resources are finite, so there are decisions that optimize the finite resources you have. This would be efficient. Could you cross the Atlantic ocean in a canoe? Possibly, but there are objectively better decisions to make.
Just saying that hypothetically, if I wanted to cross the Atlantic ocean in a canoe, who would stop me?
I certainly won't try, good luck.
I get that but it's like you wanted me to say Te was about being correct or right- and then you got upset that I wasn't all 'Yeah Te is about being correct, good job Te you're RIGHT good for you!' I think that thing is really more about Ti. Te is too dynamic and fast to care about that. There are so many factors you gotta say 'fuck it' and make an executive decision when using Te.
I'm correct, therefore, I am.
You should try it
You're basically describing Ti Accentuation and Normalization, laws etc.
Oh, so your dad is an LSI, great. God-like behavior certainly is common in them.
Tell me, how many times you got scolded for not following his rules and being against those as you made your own?
Aside from that question:
Maybe not exactly the correct method.Is this related to Te? do you rely on "figuring things somehow" when you have less enough information on a subject?
Te strives for the efficiency and as for 3D, it'll be likely for them to think of the best method instead of just being correct.
For example, to be efficient, you have to sacrifice energy and resources, but they are limited in a sense as a thumb rule of "spending it".
Ergo, there should be a way, or even, the best method to save those by limiting yourself as one of options to do.
Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel: "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."
Now that I think about it, he could not be an LSI. he sometimes protrays Te kind of thinking, and on the top of that are his attempts to make me "contribute to the emotional atmosphere" even when I tell him that I don't give a shit "ofc in a nice way" he thinks that I'm just "acting" sad as if it's my will to be sad?. could be an EIE or even an LSE who think Fe is a Te way to go about your life (I know this last line needs more explaining) but anyway
I see your point, but it really depends on what is the situation that we're trying to resolve using Te or Ti or whatever,
personally I hate it when someone tell me something like "nOo YoU'Re DoInG iT wRonG" (mostly my dad that's why I'm leaning more towards LSE for him)
I mean who decides that an action is wrong anyway? shouldn't we focus in the results and how to get from A to B using the very basic forms of critical thinking? it's like that story about the mountain that had two roads that could lead to it's top and the two brothers who split for a disagreement on how to get to the top, but eventually they both arrived to the same point.
my point is if you treat life like a book of methods or stay close minded about other possibilities being "correct" too, not only you'll have a boring life but a boring mind as well.
I see. I've had that kind of problem previously, also with my father. Typically, it's mostly stemmed from the different perspective that is needed to reach the conclusion, but otherwise, he said that my "method" was wrong, so I should've done it once more, and of course, by following the proper instruction that he has been told. Long story short, I did follow his instructions but then, "No, something wasn't right." or "I should've done a better way to do X than him." often came to my mind so often. And well, to the point, it was just about cooking the fucking rice out of the rice cooker, this shouldn't even be a matter unless you are such a linear person with strictly rigid methods to have. I also recognized his debate but when I argued his opinion, he came with even a ferocious rebuttal, and I was like having that "Okay, you win but doesn't mean I've lost." kind of mentality. He always has had a way to use "possibilities" as an argument but from what I've seen, he lacked that "grounded" approach as well.
True, but everyone is entitled to their opinion, including yourself, no matter if we deny it or not-- which I also did so often on this case. Some methods might also be harmful in the process, but it depends on the way how these humans perceive it. For instance, according to that story, it might be that the brother A didn't reach it in time, while brother B did but with more efforts. If not, maybe the opposite could be true. Or else, maybe both brothers reached the same point within their method by exactly the same minute. However, it doesn't matter if they both arrived to the same point without winning in their process, probably the same reason why possibilities "exist".I mean who decides that an action is wrong anyway? shouldn't we focus in the results and how to get from A to B using the very basic forms of critical thinking?
Albeit, I definitely doubt that there is a "wrong" way.
And as for the verdict, everything is correct, but there must be the best way in doing something properly.
Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel: "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."
Yeah I also believe that there is no "incorrect way", the thing is for my case I could care less if what I've done was the most practical, as long as it save me from unnecessary mental pain, I like to believe that not giving a whole lot of shit for practicality is tied to my nihilistic view to life
LSEs are negativist, with Te lead + Si they may focus on what you did wrong in detail. I lived in a LSE house for awhile, they have a strong sense of bringing order to their living space, like you have to put object A in place A, object B in place B, you mess thing up and you may get a lesson. They also know the cost of any item in the supermarket and their detail information... what product is worth the cost and what not.
ILIs also negativist, but with Ni they focus on the thing you could do wrong to mess up the future.
And both are process type, which mean they may care more about how thing done in what way (more nitpicking).
But all this wrong/right here is dynamic, which mean overtime if some facts/informations change, their opinion may also change easily. It's not some principle they would follow to death.
Last edited by Tarnished; 05-24-2022 at 12:06 PM.
Yes indeed, it is correct. I've said it time and again how/
is far more concerned with what is "good enough" to get a given job done over what was or ever could be seen as a "perfect" solution to a given problem.
This is likely a source of tension between the decision axis's. In this sense your/
conflicts with my
For me, well, shit's all going to hell. Everyone can and actually does realize that given what they all say behind closed doors. The collective
Things are so bad in my milieu that they're all quite willing and eager to accept the "good enough" solutions I've proffered when asked.
I’d think “the one right way of doing things” would be the opposite of “multiple possibilities” (Ne). So it would be most associated with Si.
The most efficient way, the best way for me to get it done is... efficient and done good enough.
Procedures, Methodology and Protocols exist for a reason. Personally I am amazed by the traditional ways of doing things. I like what we call in french the "Savoir Faire" the old way, Handmade stuff. For instance to forge and produce a traditional Katana or to make cocktails or building a shelter or to solder etc... They are "proper" ways to do things like that.
Imho, what people don't like when they complain about "the right way" is not the methodology it's when they see other ways and the other person insists that there is no other ways. So they want to figure out for themself if it's true or if it can be done alternatively. This attitude comes imho from doutp and an aversion for being told what to do and maybe a certain amount of negativism in a socionic sense.
Last edited by godslave; 05-31-2022 at 12:49 PM.
I guess I just make judgements based on what makes the most sense. Basically, will something work? Is it effective?
I actually don't really think that I consciously make decisions about efficiency. Doing so is hard for me. My attitude towards efficiency is instinctive.
I find that I usually think that there's a right way to do things based on what I've learned or what I've theorized (probably usually what I've learned). When other people do things differently, I sort of look at whether it'll work, and if it will, I just kind of say "Eh." and leave it alone. Otherwise, I try to fix the problem.Procedures, Methodology and Protocols exist for a reason
Imho, what people don't like when they complain about "the right way" is not the methodology it's when they see other ways and the other person insists that there is no other ways. So they want to figure out for themself if it's true or if it can be done alternatively. This attitude comes imho from doutp and an aversion for being told what to do and maybe a certain amount of negativism in a socionic sense.
There is no truth, including this sentence.
(Google's AI screams in the distance.)
Edit: So I should clarify that I wasn't actually saying that the quoted sentence wasn't true. I was saying that my first sentence wasn't true. It's a sort of logical paradox.
Last edited by Clarke; 10-29-2022 at 02:22 AM.
I guess that there aren't any truths, so that's technically false.
In all seriousness, I'm not a Trump supporter. I don't think that he would be beneficial for the US, or the world at large. I also think that his current politics aren't sustainable, considering most of the US doesn't support the overturning of Roe vs. Wade. States that have enacted state-wide abortion bans have also banned things that are pretty much necessary for standard married life, like plan B. I don't think that this would make them favorable to the general public.
No, because it wouldn't be true for you, but it could still be true for me.
Realistically, if I was a closet Trump supporter, why would I even give information about the development of Trump supporters?
Are you a Trump supporter?
Anyway, plan B seems to be necessary for a standard married couple because ideally, they would have sex at least once a week. Considering condoms don't work 100% of the time and neither does spermicide, they don't seem to have any other options. I'm pretty sure that standard birth control is bad for female hormones, although I'm actually not completely sure about this.
I guess if you wanted to argue that standard birth control is more necessary to a relationship than the occasional plan B/IUD's when the condom fails, then you could be correct, at least according to evidence that might be outside of my pool of knowledge.
As for providing information, there are other ways that I could be favorable to the general public. Theoretically, you could say that I've done those things already, although I've kind of just been acting on a sense of fun for the while that I've been here. Otherwise, I wouldn't have taken certain actions that would alienate me, like posting about 10 times in one thread in one day.
Anyway, a piece of advice I have is that if you ever use subterfuge to pretend to be part of a group, don't tell them information about your group. It's better if your enemies are in the dark about their enemies.
Edit: I should say that I took some of your posts as humor, and I'm sorry if I've offended you by trying to be humorous back. My humor tends to be nonstandard.
Well it depends on whether your truth is actually true.
-Someone with the serious dichotomy.
Edit: I think I misread this. If your truth is true and my truth is true, then we obviously have to believe the same thing. So if your truth says that my truth is a lie, then the first statement would actually be false. That's a good question to ask to a bad AI lol.
We might be having some problems understanding each other somehow. Our world views don't seem to be compatible.
Hypothetically, if 1+1=3 was my truth, it could only be true if 1+1=3 was actually the truth. But that's probably going into 1984 territory.
I guess something like that could be the truth if 2 people wanted an only child. Then 1+1 would eventually equal 3. But I wouldn't call that standard mathematics.
I'm not really sure whether to interpret this literally or metaphorically. I'll try to interpret it more metaphorically.
If 1+1=3 was true for me, then I would want to make sure that it was 1+1=3 at the right time. I wouldn't want to have 1+1=3 at a time when I'm poor, or when I don't have a job. I'd like to have it when my living conditions are stable, and maybe when I'm ready to take care of the third.
There's also this issue that when 1+1 ceases to really have +, and the two 1's just interact every day with no addition, then it might soon be 1+0. And then, for what might be a long time, I only have myself.
Ah. Well this is very interesting from an ITR perspective.
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