Basically this, yeah.Originally Posted by Lore
can I be a gamma
if only for this thread
if only for a day
@roger557 can I can I???
I want to grow up someday and be a real Gamma
Behold the Great Gamma God who probably isn't even a gamma, just some random nobody trying to gatekeep a label from an unproven pseudoscientific construct.
Jeez. I have better things to do with my time than read this thread. This is just pathetic.
I respect all religions and I'll never mock the religious beliefs of anyone. I'm fascinating by the archaic forms of the human brain's products. I think that spirituality was, and to a certain degree, still is a survival imperative inherent to human beings. Rites are a central pillar commun to all cultures and truth is always out there...
Lack is the Muse of all Poets
1. The guy is a genius and had a nice side.
2. I think he was an only child, regardless if he was, or not, he had a lot of parental issues. It was like talking to a 20 something 15 year old. Definitely narc issues, but nothing out of the ordinary for Officer types. He seemed the type to become a corrupted lawyer for sure.
I overheard a coworker, sometime while we were laying grass turf in a soccer field, that the paint Vincent was using was lead based. I wonder if this contributed to his mental Illness, or triggered some parts of latent health issues?
Reading Gammas with 4D Ni:
They do the 'this will be a win-win for both of us type of thing!' too much, even though it clearly will be a much, much bigger win for them and not the other person. It's very naive and stupid to fall for this when a Gamma tries this- just call it out for the bullshit that it is.
If they are actually very wealthy and worldly, it's admirable. Like typical 'Gamma is the adult quadra' stuff. Taking care of business, it has this classy amount of respect. But a lot of Gammas are also living in trailer parks or barren rural areas believing in things that don't really exist. Getting lost in their delusional fantasies. When "Unhealthy" Gammas don't get their own way, they just get mean- like it's in their only superpower. Gammas have a 'dog eat dog' world mentality too much, so they might not even be concerned of helping people the way other quadras are. It's kinda the opposite of Alphas. Alphas will notice you are down, and try to help you - Gammas notice you are down, and might sadistically kick you when you're down- because it triggers their 'dog eat dog' mentality. This isn't a Alphas - Good, Gammas - Evil thing either- as often times Alpha's 'helping' turns out to be quite pointless and overly naive even though the intent is good. And you have to be cruel to be kind, has some truth to it.
A healthy Gamma is very kind, lifts others up- is wealthy and worldly with lots of real-world success. They are like... diamonds. Kind of like healthy enneascam 3s. They progress Beta out of stupid IEI fantasy land and into the 'real world.' Gammas will take what Betas create, and successfully market it. Or they are happy with the success they do have even if they don't live in a mansion. An unhealthy Gamma is a sadistic trailer park bully or your classic SEE/ESI 'Mean Girl.'
(Of course there are nice Gammas and harsh Alphas with a dog eat dog mentality themselves, I'm speaking more in generalities.)
It is my understanding that lead poisoning is most effective on little children, because it affects the development of the brain. Unless it is in the form of bullets, of course.
There's no joke and in all honesty it's counter-productive. Many European Pagans believed in at the very least the possibility of a "hidden" god that had yet to reveal itself. Effective evangelists at first stated that they were advocates of/from this hidden deity they already believed in. It's generally poor practice to cold-approach someone and tell them their current faith and their god/gods are shit. Good persuasion avoids any form of insults and "Win-Lose" formulations.
If the situation is truly "win-win", and I mean truly as in yes both parties objectively benefit from a given course of action, than who "wins harder" is semantics. If I suggest a course of action that makes me 10 million dollars while you only make 1 million you still make 1 million dollars! Making 1 million dollars is objectively a very good thing and the possibility you're angered by the fact I make 10 over your one reeks of envy and calling this situation immoral somehow confuses me.
Ceterus paribus of course. I assume nothing obviously immoral/evil is happening and if there is an option where you make the 10 mil and I only the 1 mil and I act to prevent you from realizing it and doing that instead than yes, that makes me an immoral and exploitative asshole. I wouldn't hide that from you, but I would hopefully be on the better end morally.
As in, the plan that makes me the 10 mil has other positive effects for society and the world. More than the one that nets you the 10 mil. If the option where you get the 10 is actually better, then I'd just spell it all out for you and take my cool 1 million USD. Again, if you make a million bucks off of a decision with no real downsides it's still a hell of a deal.
Then there's another angle. If you truly are being a bean counter in this regard in things like, say, interpersonal/romantic relationships, then you're never gonna have real friends or find true happiness. You just like seeing the other person happy. If making them happy just so happens to have more and bigger upsides for you than them I don't see the problem. They would, optimally, be happy seeing you happy too. That they aren't benefiting as much (but are still objectively benefiting) shouldn't bother them as they don't care about that. They care about seeing you smile. That's it, and nothing more.
Getting hung up about this ultimately irrelevant issue is why a lot of people are quite unhappy in their lives. It matters not who wins harder, only who wins overall and by what means...
I'd wager that both of them are labeled ILI's by most anyone with the sense to attempt to label them is so for good reason.was clearly not their strong suit as it were.
could be argued, but as far as
One should never aspire to be something they are not. As I have said elsewhere a world where everyone agreed with me would be a pointless and boring world. There is no true virtue in the existence of a "perfect" world where it is impossible to be viscous. God desired and then created a "moral" universe for damned good reason. How is it not the will of an omnibenevolent being that our lives and all our choices objectively matter?can I be a gamma
if only for this thread
if only for a day
@roger557 can I can I???
I want to grow up someday and be a real Gamma
The "Problem of Evil" is ultimately a dialog between the finite infernal and the infinite heavenly. A dialogue the infernal already knows it has lost. Evil is allowed because the infinite can, will, and does ensure greater goods are produced theirin.
im going to have to read that 2 or 3 more times, but I think I like it
This is a really good analysis. And you spoke in a concise way which was not arrogant.I find that unvalued Fe can be a gift to help others or not. If a person doesn’t leave their inner fedora unchecked it can be detrimental to finding common ground. I found a group of people who are sarcastic and cynical but are a mix of all quadras. We should think of unvalued Fe as something to be tamed.
I always used to make myself look like I don’t care what others think but the older you get the worse it becomes for the people you wanted or want to stay in your life.Using people is something that happens. I think that’s what the self help books are talking about - they have terms like ‘covert narcissism’. Betas and Alphas want us drugged up to stop being manipulators lol.
Sometimes they want people to just see them as rich and powerful already. Any unvalued function can make you bitter if you don’t face your demons. It’s just the side of us we think won’t create problems.
lol I actually thought I was maybe coming off too arrogant- but I think because we both have 4D Ni-ego you get what I'm saying.
"It's just the side of us we think won't create problems." That's a very good way to put it. It's like Betas vs Deltas. Betas tend to think going through our 'shadow' is healthier than it really is, Deltas completely ignore negativity or Shadow Work - thinking that's better and healthier than what it really is. And neither side really compromises on this, because it's tied to quadra values. Nature of Te is dynamic so Gammas talk about being a successful entrepreneur even when they are in the trailer park, but because of the nature of how Te works- their success could spike all of a sudden like that.
"sometimes they just want people to see them as rich and powerful already." Yeah - I wonder how Gamma-y this is, cuz this ILI I worked with was like this a lot. He was a manager and was bossy/pushy and came off like an overly harsh LSE, but LSE was the one who fired him because of his temper and he threw a stapler at her. He could have gotten what he wanted if he was just like a nicer guy like some Alpha Nerdy Loser, but like you said...it was something he wasn't even considering could be beneficial (also related to his Fe PoLR) The SEE felt bad for him and said he was bullied a lot, but the duality only went so far as far as I know.
I'm like this. Socionics says it's because of Se-HA, but it could just be me feeling inadequate.
I will say that I've parked the Mercedes* in the garage and I'm mostly driving a Honda nowadays.
*But then, I'm cheap. The Mercedes has a big engine which gets about 12 mpg on a good day (I've seen 18.5 mpg on the highway, going with the wind), and it takes premium fuel at $5.25/gallon, which means it gets about 2.3 miles per dollar.
I also have a bike.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 05-29-2022 at 04:44 AM.
Very, very cheap typing methods, as expected from this forum.
Types don't have directly related characteristics, these characteristics can have an indirect correlation to TIM at most, thus should be used as secondary to differentiate between various typings.
"I used to see a guy who looked like you and thought he was LIE, but after reviewing your behaviors and type I know he's not LIE" this is funny coming from someone who self-types as an accuracy and objective-ness valuing TIM...
Edit; Saw you asked for what IM stores past experiences, there you go
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory
Btw do not assume bad ills, I'm not ill intentioned with this post.
Last edited by RBRS; 05-29-2022 at 10:38 AM.
Yeah I’m like it too. I haven’t really found an adequate solution because what people fail to realise is that when you live with the best intentions and assume others will see the real you (whatever that is) people just move on and that hurts because I crave the ability of say LII to show his work through his physical results. All of my workings out have always been in my head I’ve never shown how I reach a conclusion only that I have libraries inside my head. Like if I was to make a piece of music it would look terrible at first and my close family or friends would assume that’s me firing on all cylinders. In reality it’s a prototype because I’m building up from the bare blocks to break down what’s inside of things in a small level. I’ve always done it. Always seen words as groupings and small chunks mashed into one big block.I'm like this. Socionics says it's because of Se-HA, but it could just be me feeling inadequate.
I will say that I've parked the Mercedes* in the garage and I'm mostly driving a Honda nowadays.
*But then, I'm cheap. The Mercedes has a big engine which gets about 12 mpg on a good day (I've seen 18.5 mpg on the highway, going with the wind), and it takes premium fuel at $5.25/gallon, which means it gets about 2.3 miles per dollar.
I also have a bike.
I’m generalising but people are kinda impatient and also won’t discuss process and find enjoyment in that. So there’s this long period of work and research where I’m looking after myself in that time. And then when they see the result they act like I’m a different person. And I’m like “bro I never make conclusions that I can achieve something better than I’m capable of. I said beforehand I needed stretches of time and a fulfilling environment. I already agreed with you to do a project harmoniously and you didn’t look at what I said I would achieve in the time that I said”. That’s why if I could choose any superpower in the world it would be to make all the chaos around me slow down and I can have a shitload of time without demands.
Probably nothing new. Just can be extremely lonely because without that person to have faith that I’ll always be that person who’s capable, it ends up meaning they’re playing the waiting game instead of seeing me as both sides. They want the product to look shitty as long as it’s quick.
I have not been on this forum for a number of years, so I don’t want to comment on who is what type. I just wanted to add that I don’t think LIEs are necessarily people of few words—especially when it comes to debating and trying to solve or make sense of things theoretically. I do agree that LIEs can be “of few words” when it comes to actually opening up to have heart-to-heart conversations in person. But due to our weak Fe and Fi, I think we utilize socionics as a tool to try to understand and thereby facilitate better relationships, as well as to defensively arm ourselves with knowledge in order to protect ourselves emotionally and avoid social naïveté. For me personally, I try to find out what type the important people in my life are, so that I can understand them better and thereby hopefully avoid making social faux pas. I sometimes have trouble discerning others’ true intentions, therefore socionics can sometimes provide me with the social sophistication necessary to avoid mistaking someone else’s innocent and socionics-based weakness for an intentional attempt to emotionally injure me. Thus for me, socionics is my social cheat sheet…training wheels to offer an efficient shortcut towards mimicking social maturity. I don’t think LIEs have a great social radar, therefore we prefer to rely on theories and formulas that we can apply to people to achieve success in our relationships. And I believe it is absolutely right up a LIE’s alley to utilize an anonymous forum as a training ground in an attempt to hone our social skills according to academic theories.
Last edited by ENJoymENT; 07-15-2022 at 05:38 AM. Reason: week—>weak
A further thought regarding LIEs learning the principles of Socionics in the hope of applying them in order to facilitate better relationships. I am fairly certain of the socionics types of everyone in my family, except I am still unsure about my older sister. We are separated by 4 years and she always “told on me” and tried to get me into trouble during our childhood. Because we have an emotional distance, I was thinking she might be Alpha SEI, although in my (unsophisticated Fe/Fi opinion) she doesn’t have enough Fe. Therefore I was thinking she might be SLI because of our complete lack of overall F in general. She is very crafty and can fix things, therefore I peg her as Ne valuing. However I’ve been very close to 3 other SLIs, and to me she just doesn’t have the vulnerable softness and compatibility with me that they do…but that could be due to her dominant “oldest sibling position” in the family combined with her being my Supervisor. Regardless… when she recently visited me after not seeing one another for several years, I tried to get her to take the Socionics test. She viewed this request with scepticism and refused—likely (in my opinion) seeing this request as a devious plan for me to figure out her psychological weaknesses in order to get the upper hand on her. The truth of my intent however, was to illuminate the possible pitfalls in our relationship infrastructure, in order to avoid them and make us closer. I also thought if she is SLI, then I could happily embrace my subservient Supervisee position if it made us closer and made her happy. Thus while our interest in understanding and applying Socionics may be seen as a LIE’s attempt to control, it is really most often just a LIE’s attempt to connect.
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