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Thread: Why facts are stupid

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    Default Why facts are stupid

    The only facts that you can trust are the ones that you've falsified yourself.

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    "The moment you step into the world of facts, you step into a world of limits." - G. K. Chesterton
    "The salvation of the world depends on the men who will not take evil good-humouredly, and whose laughter destroys the fool instead of encouraging him." - George Bernard Shaw

    "When I was in the military, they gave me a medal for killing two men and a discharge for loving one." - Leonard Matlovich

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    The only facts that you can trust are the ones that you've falsified yourself.

    How would someone go about falsifying these facts?

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    -" You know, your parents had to have sex in order for you to exist right ?
    - Objection your honor "hearsay" !! "


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    “History is Written by Victors.”

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    Facts are stupid when it is not really tied to what is being talked about or what is asked when it diverts from the main subject.

    Facts can also used in order to manipulate. If there was one crime in a city this year and if there was two crime in a city next year. They can say crime increased %100 percent which is true but due to the presentation, it overshadows the truth rather than pointing towards it.

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    this is why te/fi is inferior

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lore View Post
    “History is Written by Victors.”
    and that's a fact.
    MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
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    "History is written by Viktor Gulenko"

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    Extremely niche pseudohistories are written by Viktor Gulenko, in his time between authoring torture manuals and judging people solely based on their appearances.
    HAMLET I will speak to this fellow.—
    Whose grave’s this, sirrah?

    GRAVEDIGGER Mine, sir.
    O, a pit of clay for to be made
    For such a guest is meet.

    HAMLET I think it be thine indeed, for thou liest in ’t.

    GRAVEDIGGER You lie out on ’t, sir, and therefore ’tis
    not yours. For my part, I do not lie in ’t, yet it is
    mine.

    HAMLET Thou dost lie in ’t, to be in ’t and say it is thine.
    ’Tis for the dead, not for the quick; therefore thou
    liest.

    GRAVEDIGGER ’Tis a quick lie, sir; ’twill away again
    from me to you.

    HAMLET What man dost thou dig it for?

    GRAVEDIGGER For no man, sir.

    HAMLET What woman then?

    GRAVEDIGGER For none, neither.

    HAMLET Who is to be buried in ’t?

    GRAVEDIGGER One that was a woman, sir, but, rest
    her soul, she’s dead.



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    Yeah, facts can be twisted or just plain made up to serve agendas.

    Tho, I found life got better when I started thinking of feelings as facts about people.

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    If facts were stupid, science would make no progress.

    A person might use lies disguised as truth, or genuinely believe something false is true, but we can assess the truthfulness of their claims.

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    If we don’t trust any other’s experience then human civilization would never evolves beyond caveman level…

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    context is king
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    Principles (or understanding of the subject matter) with corrections based on observation and study.

    Usually people forget first principles of a subject matter in get lost in nonsense, a nonsense that usually involves the misuse of facts.
    ἀταραξία

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    If facts were stupid, science would make no progress.
    Epistemologically speaking science is an extreme edge case.

    The scientific method does not translate to any other domain of knowledge.
    ἀταραξία

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    This is why science requires faith too. Just look at the reproducibility crisis - trust the wrong people and it all falls apart.

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    Facts are stupid and that's a fact.
    The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.

    The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Exodus View Post
    This is why science requires faith too. Just look at the reproducibility crisis - trust the wrong people and it all falls apart.
    You're more likely to trust the wrong people if you base your decisions on faith and not evidence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leckysupport View Post
    Epistemologically speaking science is an extreme edge case.

    The scientific method does not translate to any other domain of knowledge.
    I don't think that's right. The "scientific method" is the best way of establishing truth to a level of confidence.

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    I guess if I said no, this would turn into a paradox of facts.
    Arthur Schopenhauer (ILI-Ni):

    • “A man can be himself only so long as he is alone; and if he does not love solitude, he will not love freedom; for it is only when he is alone that he is really free.”


    Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel (ILI-Te):


    • "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."



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    The utility of facts is that they are building pieces for importing categories and restrictions, stasis points for shaping the context warping wizard.
    https://sabrinacasey.webstarts.com/9systemswishes
    https://sabrinacasey.webstarts.com/evolvedraichu
    Pokemon is somewhere fun over the Rainbow emblazoned by the Power of 4ever. The clouds soar and the island escalates a Lugia petal dance tempest blizzarding shiny Ash. Evanescence sparkles glistening auroras of mirth and high frequency channels embarking with the winds of new beginnings. This magical adventure turns on at the dawn of time in 2000. Ceremony and enchantment dazzle the world with colors galore. Mania and extravagance shape shift and transform into the greatest show on earth, the evolution of Pokemon
    Something has arrived. That threatens to throw everything terribly out of balance. When it comes, will you accept your destiny? And when it’s your chance to be a hero, will you rise to the challenge? This year, discover how 1 person can make all the difference! Pokemon the Movie 2000 The Power of 1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    I don't think that's right. The "scientific method" is the best way of establishing truth to a level of confidence.
    When you start thinking of "domains of knowledge", like pragmatic knowledge specifically related to writing novels or running a business. The "scientific method" becomes inappropriate as a model of knowing the best thing to do or even what the best thing is.

    Science requires unrealistic limitations on reality to prove a truth, it simplifies and isolates. Other domains can't do this.

    Outside of science a fact can be both true and false depending on context. Only principles and understanding of the subject matter can really decern the appropriateness of a fact to a given context.
    Last edited by leckysupport; 08-03-2022 at 10:00 AM.
    ἀταραξία

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    Facts are stupid when a person who values Te but is mediocre-with it tries to put you on some type of chess board or bulletin board that doesn't apply to your own unique situation, but it's technically mostly true because that's what experts said. Otherwise they can be useful.

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    I do hate remembering those so I’m with you

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    Quote Originally Posted by leckysupport View Post
    When you start thinking of "domains of knowledge", like pragmatic knowledge specifically related to writing novels or running a business. The "scientific method" becomes inappropriate as a model of knowing the best thing to do or even what the best thing is.

    Science requires unrealistic limitations on reality to prove a truth, it simplifies and isolates. Other domains can't do this.

    Outside of science a fact can be both true and false depending on context. Only principles and understanding of the subject matter can really decern the appropriateness of a fact to a given context.
    I don't think there's an area of knowledge that's outside science, it's just that people feel the need to act in areas where isn't there a clear answer. Risk, essentially.

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    Feelings don't care about your facts.
    HAMLET I will speak to this fellow.—
    Whose grave’s this, sirrah?

    GRAVEDIGGER Mine, sir.
    O, a pit of clay for to be made
    For such a guest is meet.

    HAMLET I think it be thine indeed, for thou liest in ’t.

    GRAVEDIGGER You lie out on ’t, sir, and therefore ’tis
    not yours. For my part, I do not lie in ’t, yet it is
    mine.

    HAMLET Thou dost lie in ’t, to be in ’t and say it is thine.
    ’Tis for the dead, not for the quick; therefore thou
    liest.

    GRAVEDIGGER ’Tis a quick lie, sir; ’twill away again
    from me to you.

    HAMLET What man dost thou dig it for?

    GRAVEDIGGER For no man, sir.

    HAMLET What woman then?

    GRAVEDIGGER For none, neither.

    HAMLET Who is to be buried in ’t?

    GRAVEDIGGER One that was a woman, sir, but, rest
    her soul, she’s dead.



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    Facts don't speak for themselves. At least, not always.
    Which of the facts do we emphasize? Which do we ignore? How does that affect the conclusions we make?
    Those are the real questions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazaan2397 View Post
    Facts don't speak for themselves. At least, not always.
    Which of the facts do we emphasize? Which do we ignore? How does that affect the conclusions we make?
    Those are the real questions.
    You really can prove anything with facts. With facts I can prove Mr. Hilter is a peaceful dog-loving, theatre-going, vegetarian artist hippie. That's why we really do need metanarratives.
    HAMLET I will speak to this fellow.—
    Whose grave’s this, sirrah?

    GRAVEDIGGER Mine, sir.
    O, a pit of clay for to be made
    For such a guest is meet.

    HAMLET I think it be thine indeed, for thou liest in ’t.

    GRAVEDIGGER You lie out on ’t, sir, and therefore ’tis
    not yours. For my part, I do not lie in ’t, yet it is
    mine.

    HAMLET Thou dost lie in ’t, to be in ’t and say it is thine.
    ’Tis for the dead, not for the quick; therefore thou
    liest.

    GRAVEDIGGER ’Tis a quick lie, sir; ’twill away again
    from me to you.

    HAMLET What man dost thou dig it for?

    GRAVEDIGGER For no man, sir.

    HAMLET What woman then?

    GRAVEDIGGER For none, neither.

    HAMLET Who is to be buried in ’t?

    GRAVEDIGGER One that was a woman, sir, but, rest
    her soul, she’s dead.



  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    I don't think there's an area of knowledge that's outside science, it's just that people feel the need to act in areas where isn't there a clear answer. Risk, essentially.
    I'm a big fan of clarity, but we have to act (in the vast majority of areas in life) in areas without a clear answer.

    The "real world" (TM) throws a lot of noise at us where facts very become unstable. The realm of science (with the scientific method) purposely and successfully removes this noise because of the limitations they are allowed to impose due to the subject matter (but I suspect that this won't be true for long).

    Anyway in conclusion: facts are important and work well on their own in certain and limited contexts.
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