What are signs or qualities that are typical for Sensors with Low Ni? What have you observed in these types?
Signs of low dimensional Ni
What are signs or qualities that are typical for Sensors with Low Ni? What have you observed in these types?
The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.
The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".
I have an LSE father who frets about the implications of things. He focuses on how change effects things, so he does everything in his power to diminish the influence of change. For example, how focuses on how his property gets depreciated over time, so he hates it when people abuse his furniture, cars, etc. He's kind of anal about it - won't let you play around with things because it tends to cause wear and tear. This is specifically Ni PoLR.
I think one of the giveaway signs of low D Ni is having not much of a long range plan to your life. High D Ni types can answer the question of where they see themselves in 5 to 10 years time pretty easily while low D Ni types seem more aimless in the long range scheme of things.
I see low dimensional Ni in usually with people I know who seem to have no concept of time or how long things will take. My brother, for example, cannot be anywhere on time. It's a known fact in my family.
My mom and dad have the opposite problem they tend to prepare for things way too early, like showing up a half-hour early somewhere for no particular reason. Figuring out how long activities will take, how long they are taking doing something, how much time has passed. These all seem to be things that escape some people.
As a sort of humorous side note, almost always, it never seems to fail, I see low dimensional Ni types use things like their laptop or phone to the point where they die because they aren't paying attention to its battery life.
The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.
The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".
I hate long range planning. It feels like a chore. I leave that stuff up to my wife
Not realizing how long things will take and trying to cram too much at once thinking you can do it but then realizing you don't have the time and then getting stressed out. You see this happening with LSE/ESE pretty often. I'm not as familiar with 1D-not polr Ni.
Ni is also pure raw insight. In a lot of movies/tv shows the villains are usually Betas who say true-but-fucked up things. Like Robert De Niro in the Cape Fear movie lol - whose character was an example of an unhealthy EIE. Look Lolita, an evil EIE- get 'em girl get 'em!!!
Because when you have good Ni, you see the fucked up side of what other people do so much. Just more naturally, it's harder to filter compared to the other functions. Then some dumb-ass LSE social worker says 'you're playing the victim' just for pointing it out- like me and AVewyScawwyNawcissist always talk about lol. What's the matter with the truth did I offend your ears? It's like with Delta, instead of paying attention to this dark side that Ni reveals to you, they try to completely ignore it usually. Somebody said something once like Deltas are walking away from the abyss... this is what that feels like. This isn't the best example probably because I think maybe he's universally annoying/made fun of but it reminds me of like in one of Joel Olsteen's crappy self help books I read - he just kind of arrogantly and flippantly DEMANDED everybody to 'give up their stinking thinking' but the good side of stinking thinking is it's the very thing that allows you to sense other stinkers and to protect yourself from bullshit scams. Like Joel Olsteen whitewashing and oversimplifying complex ethical problems to fill his own bank account lolol.
Depends on if Ni is valued/unvalued.
Sensors with unvalued Ni are the ultimate banality of evil. Some identifying traits include:
- terrifyingly normal
- lack of interesting thoughts
- ideas of what is ‘good’ or ‘bad’ is derived from popular opinion
- females have broad faces, broad shoulders, thick calves, and thick ankles
- males are ‘dough-y’ and have asymmetrical faces
- all of them have a dull look in the eyes
- perceptive abilities extend no further than arms reach
- unlike intuitives, they don’t get depressed about things. They just don’t experience a vast depth of emotion or insight
Unfortunately Earth is crawling with these people. They’re incredibly close minded and hate anything untypical, so it’s in our best interest to avoid them.
start fights and blame others for things they cant control or no reason. SEE blaming me for not talking to her, thinks i have a problem with her - my problem is i dont know what to talk to her about. other ppl i usually when i hear something i can relate to and think i can tell them something they'd be interested in thats how i'd butt in. this would mostly jokes and other inconsequential things
LSEs thinking that I cant have anything so important on my mind for me to not do things their way while they are micromanaging my environment. being raised by an LSE, both me and my SEI mother can attest. this is someone who doesnt realize other people exist and have needs, who establishes physical order in the environment in a way that u cant do anything u want to do bc it goes against their "plans", and anything against that means u dont carea bout them, are selfish, inconsiderate, and dont tihnk about the consequences. ESEs establish order in social institutions that doesnt let u breathe. SLEs bully ******s, minorities and other various easy targets while convincing themslves its chivalrous (tbh all low Ni types can do it). those are all peopel who're basically waiting for u to do something wrong in their eyes so they can ruin ur life while that ruination they think its not a big deal even if it hurts u.
ESEs do something bad or something bad happens to them, they join cults, live love lauhg posters everywhere, making everythimg "comfortable" and lighthearted. its like they cant process what's happenned and learn from it, its just bad and they try so hard to repress it. my LSE father just blasts happy music with soothing lyrics. for my problems now that he thinks are mental alone he tells me to just give myself willpower and it will be alright. he's had premonition dreams but he dismisses them as coincindences, means nothing to him. SLEs are the guys who do this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWVgO7DUD08
in general those are the types who give the most impression that they didnt grow mentally past their early experiences with restrictions from parents. all sensors maybe? have some kind of very rigid loyalty "real friend" thing, while at the same time having the mentality that real friends dont exist and u should just make out with whoever's convenient at the moment, u lose ppl u gain ppl ppl die. SLEs and SEEs get really mad when losing someone if they got attached which getting attacvhed idk if it has something to do with soemone being nice to them in a way that like Ni consistently over time wins their favour so they get attached ebut as i said this is often very restrictive and u have to submit to their unfair rules. if they get mad at u have to take it or respond nice, u are not allowed to get angry at them bc they escalate it. if they decide something's ur fault then its ur fault. LSEs are like that too, and ESEs also participate in shadowgovernment social circles where they tell their closed minded friends what u did during gossip and come up with planes for revenge or if at a workplace to not let u get promoted, make sure u dont change any rules, make more rigid rules bc of what i did that they are just scared of (hello youtube CEO (fuk u)), get u fired.
SLE had a friend who came out as gay and had feelings for him and tried to force his way (which part is what im least sure about since those kind of ppl see everything somene else does as a threat and nothin they themeslves do as a threat), anyway SLE started hating him and hates fags now.
they take jokes on them too seriously and harmful tings they thmeslves do they take too lightly.
right also the idea of hard work. they dont realize how much thinking takes. they often think someone's lying them about how something happenned or why someone did it. everything that doesnt fit their preconceptions is an excuse, a lie, a delusion. they beleive when u did something without "doing" anything u cheated or were lucky or are gifted but lazy, ur not trying hard enough, and u could do so much more if u tried
Last edited by VewyScawwyNawcissist; 04-21-2022 at 07:49 AM.
https://linktr.ee/tehhnicus
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self diagnosed ASD, ADHD, schizotypal/affective
Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality
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Biggest sign for me is when they can't track how things have changed over a period of time. They know what changed, but have no idea of what caused the change or when did it exactly happen. The longer the period, the more confused they become.
This points to "low Ni" having problems with forming accurate sequential patterns in time for external events.Originally Posted by Ryan
Sequential pattern recording and playback are what our bodies run on. Walking, speaking, listening; everything is a sequential pattern that has been recorded and is being played back. But most of these operations are Si-related.
Practice throwing a ball, or playing the piano, and eventually, you get the pattern down and just let it play by itself through muscle actuation.
Listen to a song and you can tell when one note is out of place, because as you listen to it, you are comparing what you hear to the pattern that you previously recorded.
It looks like the brain uses different circuits to place things in space, from the ones it uses to place things in time.
Both operations might be equally computationally demanding of the brain's energy resources, and so they don't operate simultaneously, and have therefore evolved to be separate functions with an associated individual preference.
I wonder when these respective abilities became important? Fish? Bacteria?
Last edited by Adam Strange; 04-21-2022 at 02:45 PM.
There is also an element of complexity to it, the more complex the event/activity, the harder it is for people to ascertain its nature and do it unconsciously, or like second nature.
Ni is the ability to relate to things as processes. Without it you depend only on concrete signs, but you can't see that there is a process behind, or your process vision is very narrow.
This process can be anything from everyday activities to what's going on in a culture or historical era.
With strong Ni you can relate directly with the process, you know when to wait and when to interrupt, in order to manipulate the process as you wish.
When dealing with small children, Ni polr mothers might want the children to calm down, and when they finally are calm she will suddenly suggest some new activity that interrupts the minds of the children and irritates them. Then she will blame them for not being calm.
When a deadline approaches you have to adjust the speed of your work according to the time left. Ni polrs prefer to finish the job well ahead of deadlines.
When you teach you have to feel how much information can be forced on the students and how fast they digest it. The teaching has to keep a certain pace for students to be interested, there should be a "tension" in their minds but not too much. Ni is good when teaching.
In certain technical fields it can be a virtue to have Ni polr and monitor every concrete single detail in the process instead of abstract Ni process vision.
Last edited by Tallmo; 05-03-2022 at 08:26 AM.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
Being able to fool my ESE mum that I was ok for 15 plus years (as a young adult) when I was not in the slightest. I view some ESEs and some LSEs as being completely dissociated with reality which is funny coz that’s how people view my type. Also some SEIs and EIIs, at times.
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 04-21-2022 at 05:21 PM.
One person's reality is another person's fantasy.
yeah different ways of seeing the world. Isn't it said that depressed people see the world more clearly/realistically..I think the less well-rounded LSEs and ESEs will have problems picking up on important matters...they see the world too plainly..take it at face value. I think I once saw an ESE therapist who was the most unfeeling person I have ever met. She was probably trying to stick to the lame therapy rules too much. Obvs LSE and ESE can be super caring and wise but it can be hard getting through to them..and if they've been through similar trauma to you they can be very supportive. I think there is a thing that IEI just make people relax and feel like they don't have to try lol. But I like giving ESE and LSE attention because they do really care about being caring and I like making them feel appreciated. And I am tired and should stop chattin..I have not watched TV this eve at least....huzzah. Ni-self care.
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 04-22-2022 at 05:40 PM.
No visual thinking
my ideas about socionics:
https://soziotypen.de/thoughts-on-socionics/
the section will be updated ever other month or so.
this is a VI thread with IEI examples
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-(IEI-edition)
and this is a thread with EIE examples
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...s-EIE-examples
Can you read minds? How do you know?
By a most malicious design I'd say. From that third point on until that last one it's become a meme. The third point directly relates to those that follow. It's a simple meme that makes a ton of sense IMO. See, those who cannot defend themselves physically in the age of the Caveman did not ask themselves "Is 'this' True?" Instead, they asked themselves "Will other people be OK with me saying 'this' is true?"
There is, obviously, a correlation to attachment issues on this. If you're asking the latter question with more urgency than the former than you've got em' bad. Boy I could go on for days on this and yeah, those with shitwould probably get wrecked as I'd basically be detailing the how and why they've been fucking up their whole gosh darn lives. Ceterus Paribus of course. Any type with shit X can and will be able to live a fulfilling life... if they (as the song goes) know when to hold em', know when to fold em', know when to walk away, and know when to run in relation to that.
For instance, I got shit. I know that and I know when to just shut up and let others with a better grasp on it take the floor if they're largely in agreement with me. Most of the time anyway...
Well, that's true up until a point. Like a famous ILI once said: "You can deny reality, but you cannot deny the consequences of denying reality"
The consequences will quickly spell out to all outside observers who's "reality" was actually correct. Sadly, perceptions are a subjective thing and once someone has imbedded something into their subconscious as a critical component of their "identity" only hardcore emotional nadirs will open them up to even the mere possibility of questioning them.
Also, that quote is intriguing for some reason. Methinks you experienced something that made you say that. If you'd care to indulge me could you share the tale?
I’m skeptical of your abilities hereThere is, obviously, a correlation to attachment issues on this. If you're asking the latter question with more urgency than the former than you've got em' bad. Boy I could go on for days on this and yeah, those with shit
With people that have low and unvalued Ni (1D):
Poor at reading something behind the scene/hidden clues.
Not good with knowing when to act to manipulate the flow of events.
Good one. I'd say the following
Intuitives with unvalued Si are the freaks of nature. Some identifying traits include:
- terrifyingly schizophrenic
- lack of common sense
- ideas of what is ‘good’ or ‘bad’ is derived from esoteric revelatory experiences, often having a very perverse nature
- females are incredibly fragile, submissive and develop dependency issues
- males are jump scared about everything and live in basements
- all of them have a manic gaze and stumble while walk
- present moment does not exists for them
- unlike sensors, they are bipolar. They just can’t have a roof over their head or even reach a preliminary homeostasis.
Unfortunately Earth lacks these people. They’re incredibly easy catch for prey animals and cars hit them constantly. This is amplified by their victim nature. In order to regular people feel good about themselves these people should be preserved in a macabre zoo where these intuitives can eat and have a shelter and regular people can visit while watching their painful journey through a life.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
Low unvalued Ni types ultimatively judge someones psychological state on external signs (he/she is alright, has a car, a garden, a big house etc.). They do not interpret subtle signs or expressions that could point to an underlying reason for a depression or other negative mental problems. Ni Ego types are ultimatively psychologists and therapists because they naturally pick up on these signs and care a lot about mental health. For sensing types understanding their own psychological state is much more difficult.
my ideas about socionics:
https://soziotypen.de/thoughts-on-socionics/
the section will be updated ever other month or so.
this is a VI thread with IEI examples
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-(IEI-edition)
and this is a thread with EIE examples
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...s-EIE-examples
So conclusion, don't be a dynamic type?
Ni is glorified in socionics. It’s honestly kind of hilarious.
Positive traits are misattributed to Ni types, and negative traits are misattributed to sensing types (w/unvalued Ni).
Ni polrs get the worst of it. There’s a reason why there are so few self-identified Ni-polrs here!! And no, it’s not because socionics is some topic that only appeals to intuitives. Actually I’m pretty sure several of you IEIs and EIEs and LIIs are Delta STs in heavy denial.
And no, I don’t want to hear what you think about low-sensing traits. I’ve seen enough of your humble brags (not on this thread but elsewhere on the forum):
- intuitives are poorly adjusted to society (because we’re smarter than the ignorant masses)
- intuitives are more depressed (because our emotional pain is DEEPER than yours)
- intuitives don’t eat enough (thinness is valued in our society)
- etc.
As much as End annoys me with his “I could wreck shit ni” comment, at least he is honest about what he thinks.
Also, sorry @Eudaemonia for not answering your question in good faith the first time. (My first comment was a clumsy attempt to point out all of the absurd shit people say about sensors, but I suspect several people saw what I wrote and and agreed with it). I’m going to excuse myself from this thread now.
Last edited by Poptart; 04-22-2022 at 05:33 PM.
I mean it's understandable that someone inert and torn away from the real world would lose themselves in power fantasies and delusions of grandeur.
Edit: I also believe that there are self typed Ni egos who aren't Ni egos. I know you won't say who you think they are, but I am guessing now lol.
The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.
The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".
and when I say some Ni polr see the world plainly I mean to compare it to a depressed IEI/ILI imploding on themselves and not really living fully/contributing to society. They don’t know how to exist..like any depressed person really. A ni polr who is not well-rounded would see the world too simply and miss out on helping people that truly need their help..lesson is we all need to be well-rounded. (They miss out on helping people they probably would truly wish to help deep down). A well-developed IEI may ignore signs of people being in mental distress..but I don’t think a well-rounded ESE/LSE would. We need the strong ones to lead the way.
Everyone uses ni, perhaps it’s even what makes human human. Having low ni doesn’t mean that the way that type uses ni isn’t important. It’s just better if people develop their weak functions, if they can. I think it helps them to be better at their lead/creative.
Ni is enriching and keeps us going when si or fe have failed us
Anyway we don’t really ‘have’ ni or have any of the functions..our different brains simply focus on using and producing different types of information. Socionics, as a system is not sophisticated enough to accurately depict how information processing works in the human mind, there is much to be improved.
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 04-26-2022 at 08:07 AM.
You praise the most delusional person as honest? What does that says about you?
Lol I mean he doesn’t couch his opinion in a humble brag. Maybe honest is the wrong word
I understand what End meant, since high dimensional Ni users can say things than can cut deep (regardless of whether they are truthful or not), which I will refrain from doing in this instance, because believe it or not, it's my duals PoLR and I instinctively avoid using it in a negative fashion. I prefer to instill self-confidence rather than attempt to destroy people's egos. I'm surprised you are against that as an Alpha, but I will admit that I don't know any SEIs on a personal level.
Well, we are the shape shifters. So it is not so bad.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
It's very easy to see when you see someone investing in stocks, especially long term buys. Both my LSE anf SLE friends freak out about stocks dipping and rising, when with long term stocks you are supposed to just hold and not fret on the up and down waves like it's a rollercoaster. My SLE friend will look at the daily changes and be like "Man it's dropping.", I just think, it's dropping today, but tomorrow it will probably be up, but who cares it's a stable company so in the long run it will be either much higher or not much lower than it is now, he just doesn't see it that way, but in contrast he also buys shares of silver which are life time stocks, so he either freaks out about little daily changes or he tries to look til the end of time to see what will be valuable, no inbetween. My LSE friend says he has to avoid looking at his phone or he'll freak out.
I've also seen an LSE freak out when they saw Elon Musks automatic landing rockets, like "OH MY GOSH THIS MAN IS CREATING THE FUTURE!", but those rockets just feel like the natural next step in space tech.
Yep.
Curious, what do you type as?
Live in the moment. Spontaneous. Improvising. Winging it. Things classified as P in MBTI. I feel like I'm just stating the obvious and not contributing much here, though.
One of the only useful posts you've ever made. To elaborate to the readers, an SLE friend of mine I helped out with becoming more creative actually gained the ability to think visually more often (development of Ni). My father, SLE, actually lacked the ability to think visually and never cared to individuate/self-dualize that aspect.
ESE
They see the obvious. If Ni is about insight, i sure am often missing insight on what's right in front of my little nose.
Since I read the part where you said your dual is Ni PoLR, I'll presume LII then. Youre Ne-less, though, and it makes you judgmental via postulating many things because you assume and jump to conclusions as a result of failing to consider alternatives. Ne is laughable for you. So is Fe base, youre too much of a filterless dickhead. LSI is more likely...alternatives go over your head far more than they go over mine, even. Youd have to have an IQ of 2 to be any 2D+ Ne type.
Last edited by Fluffy Princess Unicorn; 04-26-2022 at 02:18 AM.
Haha. Fair enough. I hope you got it out of your system.
Unfortunately for you, however, you are Ne-less.
Feel free to go off and die in a ditch somewhere.
The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.
The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".
High Si types are good at visual thinking, when high Nio types are good at metaphor thinking
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