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Thread: SF vs NF Ethics

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    Local Legend Toro's Avatar
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    Default SF vs NF Ethics

    I don't have the time right now to find the exact quotes, but I wanted to make this thread before I forgot.

    It is talked about in some socionics articles that aristocratic ethical types have a hard time communicating with people that belong outside of their socio-cultural circle. For example, the EIE is said to have a difficult time talking with others of a different culture than their own.

    SFs are said to do well in all environments, even unfamiliar ones like the example above.

    When I get the chance I will add the quotes to clarify what I mean. But for those that know what I'm talking about, what are your thoughts on this?

    As an NF do you have this difficulty?
    Bound upon me, rush upon me, I will overcome you by enduring your onset: whatever strikes against that which is firm and unconquerable merely injures itself by its own violence. Wherefore, seek some soft and yielding object to pierce with your darts.

    -Seneca

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    Shazaam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toro View Post
    I don't have the time right now to find the exact quotes, but I wanted to make this thread before I forgot.

    It is talked about in some socionics articles that aristocratic ethical types have a hard time communicating with people that belong outside of their socio-cultural circle. For example, the EIE is said to have a difficult time talking with others of a different culture than their own.

    SFs are said to do well in all environments, even unfamiliar ones like the example above.

    When I get the chance I will add the quotes to clarify what I mean. But for those that know what I'm talking about, what are your thoughts on this?

    As an NF do you have this difficulty?
    Yeah I think this is true for me. I don't like feeling pressured learning about cultures I don't want to learn about. ((like legally enforcing people to do so is a Delta ST thing to me that I loathe)) NTs don't try to force me to do it but they often get dissapointed that I don't do it, and think I should make more effort doing so but I wish more people empathetically understood this is very hard for me lol. A SLE made me feel so comfortable once because they made fun of their own culture and race in such a crude and inappropriate way but it was the type of thing that actually made me respect the culture so much more rather than somebody being all overly sophisticated and up their own ass about it.

    I usually like talking to people with similar experiences and views because it's comforting for me. Not too similar all the time because that's not magnetic or stimulating enough but basically agreeable. I don't like arguments escalating into physical violence and misunderstandings which to me is more likely to happen when you are different. I hate the social school experiment that it's a good idea to have people so different from so many different backgrounds and it's okay for us to socialize with each other. It's dangerously naive to think that's a good idea imo. Want to stop school shootings? Simple answer: Get rid of the stupid schools. Thinking types don't care because they are too up their own ass about what is factually or philosophically correct instead of what is emotionally and ethically correct, and ethical types who had a different emotional experience would disagree with me - but I know I'm in the right as I can only follow my own natural NF genetics. I'll get over my own narcissism when a person gets over theirs.

  3. #3
    twiggewed dewusional entitwed snowfwake VewyScawwyNawcissist's Avatar
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    i do have trouble with ppl of different culture than my own, BUT, i do think thats the culture's fault. that they dont accept me bc they have their own norms and rules. and i think those can be SF types. NFs dont push back as much, they are easy to walk over. I triggered this SEI a few times by asking ILE to ask her something, which also triggered him a bit, but he thought maybe i was awkward/shy or smth (i was definitely not my intention was 100% calculated to trigger them both).
    if i wanted to act super gay and be expressive ESI headteacher would be triggered and look down on me. in general i approached situations very low key. there was times ppl were not aware i was there or not. i actually had the highest or second highest attendance rate. the ESI teacher liked me innitially (bc i was lowkey and expressed some views that happenned to align with hers, but i knew others of my views wouldnt) but then the LSE bullying story happenned, and then i started going barefoot and wearing obnoxious clothes, and with my delirium i stopped taking notes (ESI teacher and everyone else often forgot how far we got into the previous lesson, i would be the one taking notes about which page and exercises we've completed) i stopped doing that bc it was painful and to pay attention to whats happening around me now (i was hypervigilant before due to anxiety trauma and knowing im not normal, constnatly thinking about how to act to not get shit on for sm bs), and then she asked me what i plan to do after school, i said hentai artist. which prolly made me fall in her eyes, as i was seen as someone responsible and intelligent that would prolly do something for society/humanity. i have actually barely drew any porn since i barely had privacy and thers no way for me to consistently any time hide what i draw.

    contrast my ESI friend in the ygo club with a beta NF, ILI, ILE. they think he is cringe and hypersensitive. i am so too, but ofc i figure what ppl are ok and want so i give them that. i dont get bullied bc i know what will happen if i voice what i think on senstive matters, and they wont learn bc i have challenged them on those topics before a few times (well they kinda learn but to a point and slowly. e.g. they wont stop telling the ESI to commit suicide (they say they dont actually mean it which i know but the ESI cant stop internalizing)) he just expresses himself as it is going blindly and internalizing all criticism then has outbursts which he either voices, seethes in a low voice spitefully, ocassionaly, or overeats, or plays video games, or exercises.

    my SEI mother would keep getting me things SHE wants, and not let me do some things myself. she kept criticizing my interests and preferences (MY CULTURE), my sisters too. she thought ppl today were different from her time were awful things happenned. so she thinks guys are friendly and nice or smth and that they are all my friends. reminds me of fatgurl, chriscorey, and my ILE friend with the preivous SEI. that ILE thinks no one's special, ppl are just normal ppl and the crazies are just crazy (ESI guy actually thinks crazies cant be fixed while ILE would be more open to that idea) . so i got acquintated with him innitially by not being obnoxious of course. so now i started being obnoxious cuz i thought he wouldnt just reject me and never interact with me bc i said something he doesnt like. he has balled his fist in anger about me talking down on doctors as if i who walks barefoot and doesnt shower know anything better than him.
    Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality
    I want to care
    if I was better I’d help you
    if I was better you’d be better
    HELLO??? COME BACK!!!!
    i'm afraid it will hurt like hell, i am afraid of screaming and i am afraid of crying, i am afraid of forgetting but i'm not afraid of dying.



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    twiggewed dewusional entitwed snowfwake VewyScawwyNawcissist's Avatar
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    i brought raw meat and walked barefoot in school. a lot of shitheads thought i did that for attention. i actually agonized about it for a long time and starved my self (waited until school was over while underweight so i couild return home and struggle to force feed myself, while it would have been easier if i got some time at school where i can try to force feed myself butter and meat, since i would get too nauseous if i didnt spread it around time and so many hours were just cut off from me being able to eat. i would get more food into myself in a day the earlier i started)
    Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality
    I want to care
    if I was better I’d help you
    if I was better you’d be better
    HELLO??? COME BACK!!!!
    i'm afraid it will hurt like hell, i am afraid of screaming and i am afraid of crying, i am afraid of forgetting but i'm not afraid of dying.



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    twiggewed dewusional entitwed snowfwake VewyScawwyNawcissist's Avatar
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    one thing that sucked a lot about me getting high grades was that it makes me stand out but i was forced to to appeal to my father. which also made me forced to appeal to teachers. a lot of teachers liked me bc i was smart. i spent a lot of time thinking than doing anything about studying which made my father and others think i wasnt doing anything. even myself but later i reallized there was a bunch of things prior i had tried to adapt my mind to which would later translate into something being "easy" for me in the future as if i barely tried to do it then.

    in the end ESI teacher retired, EIE (i think???) replacced her. he had poor alcoholic vibe and classmates said they found him outside at some place hanging out with some female student. so ESE teacher had manipulatively covertly forced him to make me not go barefoot, which he told me after he tried to argue me out of it repeatedly and then made me go up the board after i asked him whats the problem with what im doing after i deflected a bunch of his arguements as inconsequential bullshit. he made me hold a pen and throw it or smth to which he said angrily "thats why!". which i suspect was suppsoed to be about me embarassing him since he is my head teacher, and other teachers look down on him, and other students look down on him. The ESI teacher before him had some kind of power or respect. maybe he didnt know his limits so he submitted to doing something he neednt have. or maybe the ESI had someone inside that would protect her or other teachers were below her so they couldnt tell her what to do.
    EDIT: so students looked down on the EIE. ugh he was kinda abrasive for no reason sometimes which they took to heart. they said they thought he was cool but then he is suddenly like this. he told SEE that SEE is ugly as a part of some joke i dont remember what exactly. but SEE took it presonally or at least acted as if he did but that happenend later when ppl were shittalking the EIE teacher to another teacher. in the moment of the joke SEE looked confused, kinda mad and disgusted? like "tf is this bitch saying". EIE would rest his legs on the desk which ppl shittalked him about too since its not allowed. but then EIE heard about him being talked down on about that. and angrily explained that he had told this story before, but there were some stairs below a doorframe which were really nasty and he fell on them which messed up his leg so he needs to rest it.
    so that EIE was prolly struggling financially, maybe was rejected from other places (ofc he had some story about how he boosted a class up or helped make a school more prestigious by fixing some problem).
    he had said he has many friends among teachers or that X teacher is his friend and X will help him or he will ask X. to which our ESI teacher when she heard about that laughed that he thinks everyone's his friend (meaning that he is getting manipulated when he thinks something's going his way)
    tho similar thing had happenned to a homeless LSE, but i think the LSE was more aware they arent his friends but talked as if they were to make himself look better or even feel better about reality. deluding himself on purpose
    Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality
    I want to care
    if I was better I’d help you
    if I was better you’d be better
    HELLO??? COME BACK!!!!
    i'm afraid it will hurt like hell, i am afraid of screaming and i am afraid of crying, i am afraid of forgetting but i'm not afraid of dying.



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    As a NF, yes?kinda. I just know i do better interacting with people with similar views, but if another culture has similar beliefs to mine, it is good.

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    Seed my wickedness Sanguine Miasma's Avatar
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    NFs dePutinize/Putinize (it is a delicate balance) STs. Close circle stuff.
    SFs run social games and smell the flowers.
    MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
    Winning is for losers

     

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    twiggewed dewusional entitwed snowfwake VewyScawwyNawcissist's Avatar
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    most ppl's cultures consist of inside jokes and experiencs they recite. if i wanted to fit in id have to prime my mind to constantly make jokes, and be able to get myself away from any possible situation. ppl were still split between groups, so idfk what ppl mean when they say someone is better at integrating to a culture. from waht i can tell SFs are simply much more driven to be a part of a culture that demeans them, like the ESI i described here, and this other ESI:
    SxE would be messing with ESI as a joke. if he'd try to express negative SLE'd be like "aww come on "ur fine". so ESI never escalated and i suspect he never escalated bc if he escalated he could get berated for it and then ostracized, or if not, then he would be admitting weakness and ppl would look down on him
    even if he remains with the same group

    i dont stay in social groups as much as those ESIs do. and i go through multiple ones (idk if they do that). actually one of the ESIs i know only has 1 group im aware of.
    maybe SFs stay in one particular social group or only go into ones with particular ppl which makes it look as if they mesh better, but in reality they only pick groups where they fit in by default (or try to)
    sensors dominate reality so ofc they would fit in better with ppl like thmeslves lololol jk not jk sry not sry
    Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality
    I want to care
    if I was better I’d help you
    if I was better you’d be better
    HELLO??? COME BACK!!!!
    i'm afraid it will hurt like hell, i am afraid of screaming and i am afraid of crying, i am afraid of forgetting but i'm not afraid of dying.



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    CptLandhawk's Avatar
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    I don't really overthink this sort of thing. Whenever in a new culture, even if it's just a difference in region I show up and focus on taking in what I see. The pressure isn't on me to show anything. I'm here as a consumer. The Tazmanian Devil spinning around and eating things up. I build rapport with just a few people and that's enough to get started. If I do like what I see I come back and take in more then give something of my own to build a bridge of sorts. After that the more individual connections happen

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    This maybe kind of MBTI-ish but I think Gamma SFs have a greater capacity to improvise on a sensor level. They might observe something that's trendy on a sensor level and adopt it to incorporate themselves into a new culture.
    Just on the border of your waking mind,
    There lies another time
    Where darkness and light are one,
    And as you tread the halls of sanity
    You feel so glad to be unable to go beyond

    I have a message from another time.

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    Local Legend Toro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rune View Post
    This maybe kind of MBTI-ish but I think Gamma SFs have a greater capacity to improvise on a sensor level. They might observe something that's trendy on a sensor level and adopt it to incorporate themselves into a new culture.

    I think this could be true of SFs in general.
    Bound upon me, rush upon me, I will overcome you by enduring your onset: whatever strikes against that which is firm and unconquerable merely injures itself by its own violence. Wherefore, seek some soft and yielding object to pierce with your darts.

    -Seneca

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    I think I can adapt myself easily in most social contexts. I just need to demonstrate good will, find people I relate to a little more and I can get started from there. I think it's rather linked to my EP temperament and being an emotivist type, but being part of a democratic quadra could explain it too!

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    I'm a literal caveman when it comes to adapting myself and ethics, so I just let the NFs do that for me, and talk to people.

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