User Tag List

Results 1 to 34 of 34

Thread: - ESI Intro -

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Suonani's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Location
    Belgium
    TIM
    ESI - Fi
    Posts
    29
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default - ESI Intro -

    Hello.

    I am ESI, I am engaged to my Dual LIE, we have been living together for almost 11 years. I am 32 years old (I think). We live in Belgium. Professionally, for the moment I am a bit stagnant. I joined this forum to share and meet people. Introductions aren't really my thing so sorry if there's any vital information missing! (there should be more information on what to add to a presentation).

  2. #2
    Nicozeyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Location
    France
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    34
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Welcome here !

  3. #3
    Suonani's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Location
    Belgium
    TIM
    ESI - Fi
    Posts
    29
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicozeyo View Post
    Welcome here !
    Thank you!

  4. #4
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    15,880
    Mentioned
    1505 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Welcome, @Suonani.

  5. #5
    Suonani's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Location
    Belgium
    TIM
    ESI - Fi
    Posts
    29
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Welcome, @Suonani.
    Thank you!
    How do you mention someone?

  6. #6
    Psychology BSc and statistics MSc Armitage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    The Netherlands
    TIM
    LIE-Ni 2w1-5 SX/so
    Posts
    375
    Mentioned
    82 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Greetings, Suonani! Good to hear your LIE and you are still going strong after more than a decade!
    Are you Flamish or Walloonish, by the way?

  7. #7
    Suonani's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Location
    Belgium
    TIM
    ESI - Fi
    Posts
    29
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    Greetings, Suonani! Good to hear your LIE and you are still going strong after more than a decade!
    Are you Flamish or Walloonish, by the way?
    Hey, thank you. Tbh I hope to meet another LIE with whom I can get on with as well to build a rock-solid friendship. I'm Walloon!

  8. #8
    Psychology BSc and statistics MSc Armitage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    The Netherlands
    TIM
    LIE-Ni 2w1-5 SX/so
    Posts
    375
    Mentioned
    82 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Suonani View Post
    Hey, thank you. Tbh I hope to meet another LIE with whom I can get on with as well to build a rock-solid friendship. I'm Walloon!
    That sounds like a great plan! Ah, the French speaking part, I myself am Dutch. I live nearby the Hague. Hardware Punk, a LSI, is a French speaking Belgian too and lives in Brussels.
    How and where did your partner and you meet, actually?


    Quote Originally Posted by Suonani View Post
    How do you mention someone?
    I'm probably stealing @Adam Strange's thunder now, but you mention someone by writing @ and then their username.

  9. #9
    Suonani's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Location
    Belgium
    TIM
    ESI - Fi
    Posts
    29
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    That sounds like a great plan! Ah, the French speaking part, I myself am Dutch. I live nearby the Hague. Hardware Punk, a LSI, is a French speaking Belgian too and lives in Brussels.
    How and where did your partner and you meet, actually?
    Cool! We'll see how things develop, but I'm already happy to have found this little home where I feel a bit more at ease. I joined the discord but I'm terrible at starting random conversations so, since I've been on it, I've never spoken at all! I met my LIE on an online chat, I was in a very dark period of my life. And our meeting was very fluid, what we call love at first sight. His rough Te was very helpful to me.




    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    I'm probably stealing @Adam Strange's thunder now, but you mention someone by writing @ and then their username.
    Oh... That's what I had in mind, I had tried it, but seeing no link displayed, I thought I was wrong, thanks for the info!

  10. #10
    Psychology BSc and statistics MSc Armitage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    The Netherlands
    TIM
    LIE-Ni 2w1-5 SX/so
    Posts
    375
    Mentioned
    82 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    In what way was his Te rough according to your opinion? By the way, I was just discussing in the Which type has it best in terms of ITR? thread how I believe that ESIs are the ones who decide to let the LIE approach them or not. So LIEs can do everything they desire to approach an ESI, but if the ESI is already satisfied with their current social circle and aren't particularly looking to expand it, they will discount the LIE as a potential friend.

    I have joined the Discord server too, but I'm not too active there either. I like order and structure of the online forum, so I can browse the topics that interest me specifically, whereas on Discord everything's more spontaneous and messy. It takes too much time to stay on top of discussions on there, whereas here it's possible to join a thread whenever one feels like, even after it has remained quiet for a while.

    Yeah, the coding of the forum is almost as old as the first moon landing, so it doesn't underline the @ mentions in blue when you type them. At times it suprises me that it still works at all, though recently we are no longer able to upload any pictures anymore. Functions are increasingly being deprecated and breaking apart, due to the web browsers no longer supporting such old legacy code.
    Last edited by Armitage; 03-10-2022 at 10:35 AM.

  11. #11
    Suonani's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Location
    Belgium
    TIM
    ESI - Fi
    Posts
    29
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    In the beginning of our relationship, I played with his heart a lot. I was a real asshole. And, I noticed, to my detriment, that he asked questions that were far too specific for me to answer something too evasive. And even though it didn't work in my favour at all, I liked it. I appreciated his quick thinking and analysis and his insight. Our first 2 years were a real disaster and paradoxically the first two years of my life where I really felt alive. We did so much crap to each other... it's not very glorious but yeah, the beginning was very fiery and I'm glad that's all behind us!

    In our case, I couldn't possibly give you an objective view. For the simple reason that when I met my LIE, I was not in my normal state. I was in a state of endless anger and all I wanted to do was to take revenge for everything I had perceived as unfair, even if it meant doing collateral damage. I had thrown away all my values, all my principles, because nobody had any anyway - according to my point of view at that time of my life -. So I was going around online chats with a very bad attitude, manipulating everyone I was talking to turn things to my advantage and get what I wanted. One day when I was drunk, again, I asked a question on the public channel and my LIE answered, we talked all night. And I hadn't had such a fluid, natural conversation for a long time. We shared MSNs and for the next few days we continued to talk again and again. A few days later he admitted to me that he was starting to develop feelings for me and I took a while to respond to this statement, being a bit afraid that he hadn't seen the beast in me and that when he did, he would dump me just as quickly. The next day he asked me to meet him. I agreed, but with conditions. - Is this what you meant by "ESIs are the ones who decide to let the LIE approach them or not"?

    Indeed, the time of MSN makes me nostalgic #itwasbetterbefore It's true that Discord is a jungle when it's crowded! I agree with your view.

    Yes, and it's not going to get any better with time.

  12. #12
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    15,880
    Mentioned
    1505 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Suonani View Post
    In the beginning of our relationship, I played with his heart a lot. I was a real asshole. And, I noticed, to my detriment, that he asked questions that were far too specific for me to answer something too evasive. And even though it didn't work in my favour at all, I liked it. I appreciated his quick thinking and analysis and his insight. Our first 2 years were a real disaster and paradoxically the first two years of my life where I really felt alive. We did so much crap to each other... it's not very glorious but yeah, the beginning was very fiery and I'm glad that's all behind us!

    In our case, I couldn't possibly give you an objective view. For the simple reason that when I met my LIE, I was not in my normal state. I was in a state of endless anger and all I wanted to do was to take revenge for everything I had perceived as unfair, even if it meant doing collateral damage. I had thrown away all my values, all my principles, because nobody had any anyway - according to my point of view at that time of my life -. So I was going around online chats with a very bad attitude, manipulating everyone I was talking to turn things to my advantage and get what I wanted. One day when I was drunk, again, I asked a question on the public channel and my LIE answered, we talked all night. And I hadn't had such a fluid, natural conversation for a long time. We shared MSNs and for the next few days we continued to talk again and again. A few days later he admitted to me that he was starting to develop feelings for me and I took a while to respond to this statement, being a bit afraid that he hadn't seen the beast in me and that when he did, he would dump me just as quickly. The next day he asked me to meet him. I agreed, but with conditions. - Is this what you meant by "ESIs are the ones who decide to let the LIE approach them or not"?

    Indeed, the time of MSN makes me nostalgic #itwasbetterbefore It's true that Discord is a jungle when it's crowded! I agree with your view.

    Yes, and it's not going to get any better with time.
    @Suonani, this story is a confirmation point of my theory that ESIs and LIEs only get together when they are in personal crisis, and a Dual is the best person to solve their problems.

    When your life is great, a Dual just looks too different to be interesting.

  13. #13
    Psychology BSc and statistics MSc Armitage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    The Netherlands
    TIM
    LIE-Ni 2w1-5 SX/so
    Posts
    375
    Mentioned
    82 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @Suonani, this story is a confirmation point of my theory that ESIs and LIEs only get together when they are in personal crisis, and a Dual is the best person to solve their problems.

    When your life is great, a Dual just looks too different to be interesting.
    Or when they need new friends, because they moved to a different country, as with my bicycle ESI-Se, neuropsychology ESI-Fi, and pothead ESI-Se* friends, or they started a new study, as is the case with my ESI-Fi statistics friend.

    *It is one of the primary reasons why this particular ESI moved to study in the Netherlands.
    Last edited by Armitage; 03-10-2022 at 12:29 PM.

  14. #14
    Suonani's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Location
    Belgium
    TIM
    ESI - Fi
    Posts
    29
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @Suonani, this story is a confirmation point of my theory that ESIs and LIEs only get together when they are in personal crisis, and a Dual is the best person to solve their problems.

    When your life is great, a Dual just looks too different to be interesting.
    Well, if what you say is correct, it reinforces my own theory that I was very lucky to have met him because his presence there was a total coincidence! But does this mean that I can only be interested in one LIE in my circle now that I am feeling well?

  15. #15
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    15,880
    Mentioned
    1505 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Suonani View Post
    Well, if what you say is correct, it reinforces my own theory that I was very lucky to have met him because his presence there was a total coincidence! But does this mean that I can only be interested in one LIE in my circle now that I am feeling well?
    Hmmm, tough question, @Suonani. I don't know.

    I do know that I have many ESI friends, both males and females, but even though two of the ESIs are date material, I could only be in an intimate relationship with one woman at a time. If one romantic interest drops out, then the other one becomes a possibility.

    It's kind of weird the way I close with females. I tend to have many friends, and I gradually get closer to all of them, and then one steps up and says "Me. Choose me." And then the wavefunction collapses. Lol.

  16. #16
    Suonani's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Location
    Belgium
    TIM
    ESI - Fi
    Posts
    29
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Hmmm, tough question, @Suonani. I don't know.

    I do know that I have many ESI friends, both males and females, but even though two of the ESIs are date material, I could only be in an intimate relationship with one woman at a time. If one romantic interest drops out, then the other one becomes a possibility.

    It's kind of weird the way I close with females. I tend to have many friends, and I gradually get closer to all of them, and then one steps up and says "Me. Choose me." And then the wavefunction collapses. Lol.
    We'll see, then! What's weird about the way you do it? What would be weird is if you decided to take more than one woman at a time. But your principles are there, so I don't see what's weird about it. I think everyone has their own way of doing things. Before I got into a relationship, I would set a specific person as a target and do everything to get it. It's no less weird. Just a different method.

  17. #17
    Psychology BSc and statistics MSc Armitage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    The Netherlands
    TIM
    LIE-Ni 2w1-5 SX/so
    Posts
    375
    Mentioned
    82 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Suonani View Post
    Well, if what you say is correct, it reinforces my own theory that I was very lucky to have met him because his presence there was a total coincidence! But does this mean that I can only be interested in one LIE in my circle now that I am feeling well?
    I think that it might be the other way around, actually. We LIEs are very comfortable having a wide network of contacts, whilst knowing that we are able to still differentiate between the closeness with our friends. We thus are very cool with it when our ESI meets up with different people, because we know ourselves that it doesn't mean a thing. I believe it's LIEs who shouldn't be too close with others, because I don't believe that ESIs like sharing, LOL. The way how the bicycle ESI keeps reiterating to me how it is more important to be close to someone, than to have many friends, seems to imply that he wants to have me as a close friend. He's the only friend who I meet every week with.

    The next person I meet up most often with is my LSI-Ti friend, who I see monthly or biweekly, when our schedules align. For the past while our schedules didn't and it took us months to meet up, because each time we wanted to all kinds of events occured, such as his girlfriend needing him, his car breaking down, or my supervisor calling me in for an impromptu meeting. Had my military historian ILI-Te friend still been in the country, I'd probably meet up weekly or biweekly with him as well, like we used to do before he moved for his study to Italy. Soon he's coming back to the Netherlands as part of his exchange program, though, so we'll be seeing each other more frequently again.

  18. #18
    Suonani's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Location
    Belgium
    TIM
    ESI - Fi
    Posts
    29
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    I don't think ESIs like sharing, LOL. The way how the bicycle ESI keeps reiterating how it is more important to be close to someone, than to have many friends seems to imply that he too wants be close friends. He's the only friend I meet up weekly with. The next person I meet up most often with is my LSI-Ti friend, who I see monthly or biweekly, when our schedules align. For the past while our schedules didn't and it took us months to meet up, because each time we wanted to all kinds of events occured, such as his girlfriend needing him, his car breaking down, or my supervisor calling me in for an impromptu meeting. Had my military historian ILI-Te friend still been in the country, I'd probably meet up weekly or biweekly with him as well, like we used to do before he moved for his study to Italy. Soon he's coming back to the Netherlands as part of his exchange program, though, so we'll be seeing each other more frequently again.
    I cannot speak for all ESIs. But indeed, in my case, I am hyper territorial. I don't have any friends, because every time I'm disappointed in the lack of loyalty. Or... what I can't stand is when I start to really appreciate someone, they tell me about their friends, I don't know why but it makes me run away directly. It may be completely selfish or stupid but I like to know that there is a kind of exclusivity, even in a friendship. I like to think that this person is telling me this secret to myself. I like knowing that if this person has problems, I'm probably the only person they've told. And I will do everything I can to help that person. As long as I know that this person doesn't have an exclusive friendship with me, why waste my time and energy on something that anyone would listen to?

  19. #19
    Psychology BSc and statistics MSc Armitage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    The Netherlands
    TIM
    LIE-Ni 2w1-5 SX/so
    Posts
    375
    Mentioned
    82 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Suonani View Post
    In the beginning of our relationship, I played with his heart a lot. I was a real asshole. And, I noticed, to my detriment, that he asked questions that were far too specific for me to answer something too evasive. And even though it didn't work in my favour at all, I liked it. I appreciated his quick thinking and analysis and his insight. Our first 2 years were a real disaster and paradoxically the first two years of my life where I really felt alive. We did so much crap to each other... it's not very glorious but yeah, the beginning was very fiery and I'm glad that's all behind us!
    If I pry to much you can say so, but what kind of crap did you pull on each other and why? Was it due to your jadedness with the world that you attacked him only for him to turn back on you again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Suonani View Post
    In our case, I couldn't possibly give you an objective view. For the simple reason that when I met my LIE, I was not in my normal state. I was in a state of endless anger and all I wanted to do was to take revenge for everything I had perceived as unfair, even if it meant doing collateral damage. I had thrown away all my values, all my principles, because nobody had any anyway - according to my point of view at that time of my life -. So I was going around online chats with a very bad attitude, manipulating everyone I was talking to turn things to my advantage and get what I wanted.
    This sounds too familiar...

    Quote Originally Posted by Suonani View Post
    One day when I was drunk, again, I asked a question on the public channel and my LIE answered, we talked all night. And I hadn't had such a fluid, natural conversation for a long time. We shared MSNs and for the next few days we continued to talk again and again. A few days later he admitted to me that he was starting to develop feelings for me and I took a while to respond to this statement, being a bit afraid that he hadn't seen the beast in me and that when he did, he would dump me just as quickly. The next day he asked me to meet him. I agreed, but with conditions. - Is this what you meant by "ESIs are the ones who decide to let the LIE approach them or not"?
    Indeed, we try to approach you guys, but at the end of the day the ESI decides if we even get a chance, if you accept our approach and under which circumstances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Suonani View Post
    I cannot speak for all ESIs. But indeed, in my case, I am hyper territorial. I don't have any friends, because every time I'm disappointed in the lack of loyalty. Or... what I can't stand is when I start to really appreciate someone, they tell me about their friends, I don't know why but it makes me run away directly. It may be completely selfish or stupid but I like to know that there is a kind of exclusivity, even in a friendship. I like to think that this person is telling me this secret to myself. I like knowing that if this person has problems, I'm probably the only person they've told. And I will do everything I can to help that person. As long as I know that this person doesn't have an exclusive friendship with me, why waste my time and energy on something that anyone would listen to?
    That makes total sense. But let me ask you something. So after the bicycle ESI-Se had returned from the movie theatre we chatted some more in front of his place. He complimented me on the award I received that week from my political student association for being the greatest lecturer of all members of the past 5 years. He said that I must feel quite proud of it. I thought for a second and replied: "To me it's not as big a deal, actually. What I value more is how you described at the cinema that you pick your friends carefully, so I see it as a greater compliment that you want to spend time with me than that award."

    Instead of accepting the compliment I gave him instead went awkwardly saying: "Well, that's when I was in Germany still and had my high school friends there. Now I'm here and even though I'm not an extrovert like you, I'm human too and need social contact." Ouch... It saves that at an earlier meet up he told me that he finds me interesting, but still this was painful to hear, because it made me feel replaceable. I don't think that he actually meant it that way, but instead wanted to confer that I'm not as close to him as his high school friends of long time, but I never imagined myself to be. I only know him for a couple of months, so it would have been unsensible to expect myself to be on equal feeting yet as his high school friends who he has known and spent time with for 6 years. I never had that illusion, I just wanted to express that I appreciate his friendship.

  20. #20
    Suonani's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Location
    Belgium
    TIM
    ESI - Fi
    Posts
    29
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    If I pry to much you can say so, but what kind of crap did you pull on each other and why? Was it due to your jadedness with the world that you attacked him only for him to turn back on you again?
    We lied and hide things from each other and we were doing things that were close to being unfaithful.As for the why, I don't know. I don't really know why. I felt like it wasn't possible for someone to love me, so basically, for some reason, I didn't take the relationship "seriously" even though deep down I was sure it was. But I don't know, everything happened so fast between us that I thought it was strange, suspicious and that he would eventually abandon me and I didn't want to include myself in a relationship anymore, I didn't want to give too much of myself, I didn't want to look like a fool, so I protected myself with what I knew best: manipulation and tricks.

    And he took his revenge every time. So it escalated pretty quickly until I caught myself sending an ultra wild PM to a girl he was chatting to. That's when I decided to include myself in the relationship and become myself again. Obviously, it was a calculated move. He knew that at some point I would do it as he left all the evidence at my fingertips, on purpose, to make me angry and he won, it did however solve all our problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    This sounds too familiar...
    Really? Under which circumstances?

    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    Indeed, we try to approach you guys, but at the end of the day the ESI decides if we even get a chance, if you accept our approach and under which circumstances.
    Oh ok I get it. So this is how it works!

    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    That makes total sense. But let me ask you something. So after the bicycle ESI-Se had returned from the movie theatre we chatted some more in front of his place. He complimented me on the award I received that week from my political student association for being the greatest lecturer of all members of the past 5 years. He said that I must feel quite proud of it. I thought for a second and replied: "To me it's not as big a deal, actually. What I value more is how you described at the cinema that you pick your friends carefully, so I see it as a greater compliment that you want to spend time with me than that award."

    Instead of accepting the compliment I gave him instead went awkwardly saying: "Well, that's when I was in Germany still and had my high school friends there. Now I'm here and even though I'm not an extrovert like you, I'm human too and need social contact." Ouch... It saves that at an earlier meet up he told me that he finds me interesting, but still this was painful to hear, because it made me feel replaceable. I don't think that he actually meant it that way, but instead wanted to confer that I'm not as close to him as his high school friends of long time, but I never imagined myself to be. I only know him for a couple of months, so it would have been unsensible to expect myself to be on equal feeting yet as his high school friends who he has known and spent time with for 6 years. I never had that illusion, I just wanted to express that I appreciate his friendship.
    Oh wow! How rude it is! Did you try to explain your perception to him?

  21. #21
    Psychology BSc and statistics MSc Armitage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    The Netherlands
    TIM
    LIE-Ni 2w1-5 SX/so
    Posts
    375
    Mentioned
    82 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Suonani View Post
    We lied and hide things from each other and we were doing things that were close to being unfaithful.As for the why, I don't know. I don't really know why. I felt like it wasn't possible for someone to love me, so basically, for some reason, I didn't take the relationship "seriously" even though deep down I was sure it was. But I don't know, everything happened so fast between us that I thought it was strange, suspicious and that he would eventually abandon me and I didn't want to include myself in a relationship anymore, I didn't want to give too much of myself, I didn't want to look like a fool, so I protected myself with what I knew best: manipulation and tricks.

    And he took his revenge every time. So it escalated pretty quickly until I caught myself sending an ultra wild PM to a girl he was chatting to. That's when I decided to include myself in the relationship and become myself again. Obviously, it was a calculated move. He knew that at some point I would do it as he left all the evidence at my fingertips, on purpose, to make me angry and he won, it did however solve all our problems.


    Really? Under which circumstances?
    So it's a thoroughly beaten dead horse by now on the forum, but I dated this guy during summer. His dream is to become a model in Paris, which I believe he can pull off, because he definitely has the good looks for it. He has an athletic lithe body, piercing blue eyes, and dominant stance. He always dresses fashionably with dark or white colour tones and a metal chainlike necklace. In order to get to and from Paris he needed money, because his job as a waiter didn't earn him enough for that. He thus borrowed money from his best friend and over time felt an increasing need to pay him back. Already quite soon after meeting me he brought this up, but I politely explained that as a student myself I had no income either. I suggested that he'd ask his parents for help, but he said that he already tried this to no avail.

    Despite acknowledging that I had no income, a couple weeks later he brought his financial issues up again. I explained to him that in the Dutch culture it is not done to discuss money. He rhetorically asked that if it was me who needed money, if he then should not help me out either? I replied that if I ever needed money that I would be more inclined to scrape by, than to ask for help. He had not anticipated this reaction and it effectively halted his request, until a while later he brought it up again.

    Now realizing that politely declining his request didn't work, I changed tactics and instead acted like I didn't understand him, in order to distract him and then quickly change the subject. I joked around a bit and laughed, but he perceived this as laughing him out. He confronted me about this and I told him that I wasn't laughing him out, but he wasn't convinced. He felt hurt. We were going to meet up later that evening after he finished his shift. I had proposed discussing his financial problem that evening. I had in mind that if we could talk about it openly and made some solid agreements, I would give him the money that he needed. Instead, I waited in vain. The following day he messaged me that he stood me up, because I had disrespected him by laughing him out, but that he loved me still. I chatted with him normally afterwards, as if nothing had happened. I think that it frustrated him that I didn't acknowledge his revenge to have hurt me.

    Eventually he had mustered enough money by himself to go to Paris and I believed the problem to be solved with that. I was going to visit him there two weeks later. But little did I know that what money he had saved was just for the travel expenses and that he had gone to Paris otherwise unprepared... I was unaware that all this time he that he was there he was sleeping over at a friend's place.

    The week before I would visit him we were planning everything. Originally I was going to stay with a friend who lives there and who had already invited me to come visit him when the lockdown would be lifted. However, this friend was called into a series of important meetings for his work that week, so I instead was going to book a hotel. I informed my date about the change of plans and he proposed to book together. He explained to me how he had been staying with his friends for the past weeks, but that he needed to get out of their house and find a place that he could rent for himself. He suggested that we would therefore book the hotel room for a longer period, so he could sleep there the days before I'd arrive. He offered to reserve the hotel room, if I would send him the money. He knew a cheap place not too far away where another one of his friends might get us a discount. Still weary of forking him any money, due to our previous arguments about it, I told him that I would rather stay at the Ibis Budget Hotel where I normally sleep, because my father has a discount for there. He was cool with that and asked if I could then book for him too. That was okay with me, but I first had to await my father's return from my grandpa, because he was currently being hospitalized (my grandpa had cancer).

    Impatient for a place to sleep that night and perhaps sceptical of my story, he messaged me five minutes later asking me if I was going to help him or not? I replied that my father had yet to return, but if he was in such a hurry to ensure a place for the night, he could tell me the name of the hotel he had proposed and then I'd book for the two of us there. Instead of complying, he put his foot down and insisted on him reserving the room and me sending the money. In turn, I replied what I said before, that I needed the name of the hotel, so I could book a room for him. He reacted that if I was willing to help him that I should send him the money instead. At that point I had gotten furious, I told him that if he wanted money so badly he should work for it instead and that it was cruel of him to play my feelings for money. The plans were off, I wasn't coming to Paris anymore.

    For a week we didn't talk. I noticed that he changed his profile picture, he tried to look macho and indifferent about the whole situation, but his smile was fake and I saw sadness in his eyes. Every day that week I had been staring at his picture, every day that week I called with my SLI and ILI best friends about how heartbroken I was about the whole situation, and every day my friends told me that it was for the better that I had broken off contact with the guy. Only on Wednesday I could reach neither of my friends. All alone and missing him, I wrote a lengthy apology message in which I named everything about him that I liked and how much I missed him. He read it and pondered the whole day about what to reply. The following day he answered my message: "Let it go, because what I missed was respect."


    Quote Originally Posted by Suonani View Post
    Oh ok I get it. So this is how it works!


    Quote Originally Posted by Suonani View Post
    Oh wow! How rude it is! Did you try to explain your perception to him?
    One day I will and he'll admit that it was a foolish way of expressing himself and that he didn't mean it like that. But not yet, now is not the time.

    Besides, I have experienced this before with the ESI former friend I knew from scouting. He was set on his high school and Gym friends and no matter how many times they stood him up, cancelled for his birthday, or treated him like shit, he had decided on them being his closest friends. And no matter how often I supported him, how reliable I showed myself to be, and how much he appreciated the thoughtful birthday presents I gave him when others forgot, he had long ago decided that I was just a friend. The ESIs I have met tend to be like that, once the ESI has granted someone a certain position within their social circle it then is fixed. No matter what this person does, he or she retains this position for better or for worse. Only when other people higher in the ESI's social circle fall away, due to the ESI moving away, losing friends, or starting a new job, does the person make a chance of being allowed to the ESI.
    Last edited by Armitage; 03-10-2022 at 03:49 PM.

  22. #22

    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Germany
    TIM
    LIE
    Posts
    710
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Welcome @Suonani It's good to have one more ESI around here, even though I'm not so active nowadays. I'm a 23 year old female LIE and I live in a German city very close to Belgium and the Netherlands.

  23. #23
    Suonani's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Location
    Belgium
    TIM
    ESI - Fi
    Posts
    29
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    Welcome @Suonani It's good to have one more ESI around here, even though I'm not so active nowadays. I'm a 23 year old female LIE and I live in a German city very close to Belgium and the Netherlands.
    Oooh hello! Thank you! Cool I have family in Germany and Eupen. But I didn't learn the language. Do you have any ESI friends?

  24. #24

    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Germany
    TIM
    LIE
    Posts
    710
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Suonani View Post
    Oooh hello! Thank you! Cool I have family in Germany and Eupen. But I didn't learn the language. Do you have any ESI friends?
    Nice! Eupen is half an hour away from me.

    Yes, I have 2 male ESI pen pals with whom I've been in regular contact since many years ago (mostly philosophical and political discussions) and I also live with a gay ESI computer science student in a shared apartment. There's also a female ESI neighbor with whom I'm good friends and we see each other on a weekly basis. She studies biology and is interested in fun topics like plant psychology, toxicology and forensic biology. We sometimes go running together. My best friend since I was 13 is an ESI girl whom I met at school and we were basically together 24/7, but she moved to another city for university and I moved out of the country, we still keep in touch. She's on the autism spectrum and is obsessed with computers and fluffy animals. Our hobby was to go cycling around the city and make paper airplanes together and we had also sheltered a ginger stray kitten in the school yard.
    I have yet to find my ESI life partner and finally start living and working together with someone I love and want a joint future.

    Yesterday I tested positive for COVID and the symptoms began. As soon as news was out, first the female ESI neighbor went shopping for me (bought soup, lemons, tea, nuts, protein bars, etc). Then the ESI home mate brought paracetamol and kept checking every 2-3 hours if the fever is going away or not.

    Do you have female LIE friends?

  25. #25
    Suonani's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Location
    Belgium
    TIM
    ESI - Fi
    Posts
    29
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    Nice! Eupen is half an hour away from me.

    Yes, I have 2 male ESI pen pals with whom I've been in regular contact since many years ago (mostly philosophical and political discussions) and I also live with a gay ESI computer science student in a shared apartment. There's also a female ESI neighbor with whom I'm good friends and we see each other on a weekly basis. She studies biology and is interested in fun topics like plant psychology, toxicology and forensic biology. We sometimes go running together. My best friend since I was 13 is an ESI girl whom I met at school and we were basically together 24/7, but she moved to another city for university and I moved out of the country, we still keep in touch. She's on the autism spectrum and is obsessed with computers and fluffy animals. Our hobby was to go cycling around the city and make paper airplanes together and we had also sheltered a ginger stray kitten in the school yard.
    I have yet to find my ESI life partner and finally start living and working together with someone I love and want a joint future.

    Yesterday I tested positive for COVID and the symptoms began. As soon as news was out, first the female ESI neighbor went shopping for me (bought soup, lemons, tea, nuts, protein bars, etc). Then the ESI home mate brought paracetamol and kept checking every 2-3 hours if the fever is going away or not.

    Do you have female LIE friends?
    Wow, you are well surrounded!
    Argh I hope your fever has gone down since yesterday, we had COVID a few weeks ago and it was not nice, not to mention the total loss of flavor.

    No, actually, I don't have a friend. I find it very difficult to make friends with anyone, and the older I get, the more I think I'm really shitty, I must have a problem because I can't stand anyone, I don't consider myself asocial, but none of my relationships ever last because they didn't respect my values, even in my family.


    To give an example:
    My gay uncle who never came out had a huge depression and burn-out. He fell into drugs and everything that followed was a logical and easily observable sequence. When my family didn't do anything for my uncle, I decided to do something about it myself and told my mum and my aunt. Saying that it was going to be very bad, that something had to be done. They let it continue for two years. And I watched helplessly as this drama unfolded. I tried to have discussions with him, but as he lived too far away for me, I couldn't go to his house, it wasn't possible with my family life. So I suggested that he spend a few weeks with people who could look after him, which he accepted, and he went to stay with my mum. A few days later, his condition improved a little. I had some discussions with him. He tried to arrange a visit to my aunt's house with my mum. My aunt just ignored all his messages and calls. She didn't want to see him, she didn't want to help him. It broke him down, destroyed him. I felt a huge anger inside me, but I didn't say anything, there was no need to add more. A few days later, he decided to part with everything he had, he sold everything with the idea of going to Spain for a rest. A few weeks later, we learned of his death. And my aunt was in total drama mode, like she didn't have it coming.


    This kind of unfair example in my life happens to me too often and I am currently too afraid to include myself in a friendly relationship with anyone, for fear of aggravating my intransigent vision of things, for fear of being seen, once again, as the "unstable hysterical bitch", because that is how I am perceived in my family. But they are incapable of realising the injustice they are sowing. The only one who doesn't see me that way is my fiancé LIE. But I have not yet met another person of this type.

  26. #26

    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Germany
    TIM
    LIE
    Posts
    710
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Suonani View Post
    Wow, you are well surrounded!
    Argh I hope your fever has gone down since yesterday, we had COVID a few weeks ago and it was not nice, not to mention the total loss of flavor.

    No, actually, I don't have a friend. I find it very difficult to make friends with anyone, and the older I get, the more I think I'm really shitty, I must have a problem because I can't stand anyone, I don't consider myself asocial, but none of my relationships ever last because they didn't respect my values, even in my family.


    To give an example:
    My gay uncle who never came out had a huge depression and burn-out. He fell into drugs and everything that followed was a logical and easily observable sequence. When my family didn't do anything for my uncle, I decided to do something about it myself and told my mum and my aunt. Saying that it was going to be very bad, that something had to be done. They let it continue for two years. And I watched helplessly as this drama unfolded. I tried to have discussions with him, but as he lived too far away for me, I couldn't go to his house, it wasn't possible with my family life. So I suggested that he spend a few weeks with people who could look after him, which he accepted, and he went to stay with my mum. A few days later, his condition improved a little. I had some discussions with him. He tried to arrange a visit to my aunt's house with my mum. My aunt just ignored all his messages and calls. She didn't want to see him, she didn't want to help him. It broke him down, destroyed him. I felt a huge anger inside me, but I didn't say anything, there was no need to add more. A few days later, he decided to part with everything he had, he sold everything with the idea of going to Spain for a rest. A few weeks later, we learned of his death. And my aunt was in total drama mode, like she didn't have it coming.


    This kind of unfair example in my life happens to me too often and I am currently too afraid to include myself in a friendly relationship with anyone, for fear of aggravating my intransigent vision of things, for fear of being seen, once again, as the "unstable hysterical bitch", because that is how I am perceived in my family. But they are incapable of realising the injustice they are sowing. The only one who doesn't see me that way is my fiancé LIE. But I have not yet met another person of this type.
    Yes, thanks, today is finally my first day without symptoms. The loss of flavor happened to me for just 2 days but fever and foggy brain were really annoying.

    Hmmm, maybe your definition of a "friend" also differs from mine. LIEs are in general much more quick to call someone their friend than ESIs are. All ESIs I know, on the other hand, are usually trying to "close" their friends' circle rather than expand it.

    But what you say about questioning your social skills because of trauma in the past regarding trusting others is really familiar for me as well. I was so sad to read about what happened with your uncle, my condolences for your loss.
    I was born in a middle eastern country, so problems like these don't sound foreign to my ears but it still surprises me that such events happen worldwide.
    To me it always seemed that there were some aristocratic rules that somehow everyone in the family and relatives followed instinctively without thinking about the reasons for or consequences of these rules and I could not shut my mind or mouth in questioning them and subsequently, to say that this trait in my personality annoyed them would be an understatement.

    I don't know if it indeed has to do with the aristocratic values ingrained in the beta and delta quadrants and if these rules apply across cultures worldwide but I think since Betas are stereotypically responsible for the maintenance of basic survival hierarchies and Deltas for creating comfortable, low-maintenance support structures for their cluster, this annoying constant questioning trait is left to the Gammas. I've seen it over and over again in different countries. One has to value comfort less than justice being sown and to also have a fighting spirit lacking in the democratic peace-seeking Alphas. So I think if gammas stop asking those annoying questions in their families, others won't ask either. Maybe this is some sort of a "Gamma sacrifice in the name of the society".

    I even suspected myself to be neuro-diverse or on the autism spectrum partially for this reason (my EII sister's theory about me).

    The worst thing about being like this is one often ends up without support (in all forms expected from secure familial attachments) while competing with those who are privileged enough to have values which are automatically parallel to their background, so it's not fighting from a position of power and one often ends up losing and feeling worse about thinking differently. But I think without these opposing nodes in social networks, society would move in a self-sabotaging, dark direction. Maybe this is why it was written that in times of difficulty, it's better to retreat to spending time with inter-quadrant types, to refurbish personal values and to gain confidence and trust again.
    Last edited by Zero; 03-16-2022 at 02:09 PM.

  27. #27
    Rune's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    TIM
    ILI-Ni CN 964 sx/so
    Posts
    605
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Hello.
    Just on the border of your waking mind,
    There lies another time
    Where darkness and light are one,
    And as you tread the halls of sanity
    You feel so glad to be unable to go beyond

    I have a message from another time.

  28. #28
    Suonani's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Location
    Belgium
    TIM
    ESI - Fi
    Posts
    29
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rune View Post
    Hello.
    Hello!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •