LII vs ILE, subtypes?
Hello, I've been stuck on this problem for a while, I need some new data/insights for this.
How to differentiate the alpha NTs, LII and ILE, and their subtypes (ex. LII vs ILE-Ti)?
All constructive replies are welcome (linked articles/posts, insights etc.)
Between ILE and LII,
LIIs (Ti/Ne) are primarily categorical thinkers whose logical drive to make sense of everything (Ti) is tested by the many (Ne) possible exceptions to the rules they invent. Basically, the LIIs formulate rules and then test them against all kinds of circumstances. LIIs are responsible for most scientific laws, in my opinion.
ILEs (Ne/Ti) are primarily random. They want randomness and variety over all other things, and are attracted to fields with Ti foundations to take those Ti facts and combine them in new and different ways. ILEs are, in my opinion, responsible for many fundamental inventions and even more hilariously useless ones.
Si:
Physically, an LII's Si-HA means that they love and seek comfort, but aren't anywhere near achieving the kind of health levels that SLI can achieve, and so many of them are overweight and the males tend towards dressing like an unmade bed and having scraggly beards later in life. It is not impossible for an LII to look stylish, but it's usually the females who achieve this, and it doesn't seem to happen until later in life.
Physically, the ILE's 1D Dual-Seeking function, Si, means that they tend to be bad at maintaining their health, live in disorder and chaos, and basically don't see dirt. This means that they dress worse than the LIIs and live in more chaotic environments. They frequently have bad teeth. Very bad teeth. (Yes.) If their sex partner says that they liked something that the ILE did, the ILE will never do that again. If the ILE's partner asks them to pick up the kids after school, the ILE will arrive home hours later, without the kids, but with a great story about how they followed the circus out of town.
Fe:
An LII's 1D Fe means that they don't interact with people if it can be avoided. They aren't unfriendly, but they don't usually seek people out. They are the neckbeards who sit alone in their basements and are quite happy there, if a bit resentful that their genius hasn't positioned them as King of the World, which is where they think they belong.
An ILE's 2D Fe-HA means that ILE's are not very good with being friendly one-on-one, but they can be fantastic masters of ceremony if they have a nice SEI who will turn the letters for them. An ILE alone, or one-on-one, can be an incredibly abrasive asshole, but when placed in front of a crowd and given a script, transforms into an interesting and appealing human being.
Are you trying to type another specific person? Or yourself? Or are you asking in general?
If yourself, typing by the mobilizing might work. The mobilizing seems to vary between getting too much focus and not enough, and the extent to which it's possible to concern oneself with the mobilizing can lead to individually greater expressions of it than generally come from people who have it as their base. For instance, I think base Si types generally handle living in discomfort (say a messy room, eating fast food frequently) better than LII and EII, who, weaker in that area, can often become health nuts or develop very definite preferences about the food they eat, the environment around them, etc, though these "preferences" might seem only cared about in bursts. ILE and SLE can express an immoderate amount of Fe at times, while base Fe types have a better sense of when to turn it down. The suggestive OTOH is difficult to access and I don't think it's really possible to overindulge your own expression of it (seeking it from others is something else of course). So I'd guess one of these fits better than the other.
To be able to differentiate subtypes in interaction, you need to have typed a lot of people and practiced socionics a good deal. Then, you start to see the subtypes.
by your IR with other people
subtypes are baseless and not Socionics
Types examples: video bloggers, actors
This is where you are dead wrong. ILE looses motivation if they are given a script and probably starts to mumble incoherently and can not give af about anything.Originally Posted by Adam Strange
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
NO Private messages, please. Use Discord instead.
This is merely a theory but in my opinion...
Rational subtypes enjoy discussing decisions. However, in the case of irrationals with a rational subtype, though they may enjoy discussing those decisions they may not be quick to actually implement them.
Irrational subtypes enjoy sharing information. However, rational types with an irrational subtype ultimately prefer to be decisive despite the plethora of information that they do gather.
This is the reason I buy that subtype is socially pertinent, particularly within the context of lead/contact. Even if people are of opposite quadra, two people of rational subtypes could bond through their subtype quicker than through their lead functions. This does not mean they wilk agree, but does suggest that their verbal rhythms could be similar
Lol you are funny Adam. I read the bold to my son and he started cracking up laughing. Then I read it to everyone in the house and they all laughed. Then my ILE son said "I like sex and I'm not an idiot." My daughter's SLI boyfriend said "Oh you like that? Never again" The SLI is friends with my son.
My dentist said I have perfect teeth and my son has bad, but clean teeth, which he inherited from my SEE mother.
Lol maybe we're not ILE
"Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around."
Lol, @chriscorey. Such are the dangers of generalizing from a few cases.
Your son sounds like a good guy.
P.S.
I noticed a long time ago that type descriptions from opposite Quadras were horrible. They tend to uniformly emphasize what are perceived as the worst traits of a type.
Much better (best, maybe), are type descriptions by Duals, assuming you can find them. They tell you what the only important person in the Socion thinks are your good and bad traits.
yeah my ILE friend I met on a typology forum and who also studies Jung takes sex classes on how to be a better lover. He knows all about s&m, all of it. He's an entrepreneur.
You've read me talk about him before. A woman raped him at a party. err he's very good-looking...
"Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around."
@Adam Strange
Your descriptions of IEIs are so insanely good, but I feel like your ILE description falls short tbh
It's mainly your description of their Fe that seems lacking to me. My younger brother and one of my closest friends (who I have both typed as ILE) are both incredibly sensitive and go to great lengths to make the people they care about happy, but are just utterly clueless about how to do so and so make about a dozen faux pas while attempting to be nice. They are also prone to starting random arguments and provoking people because for them arguing and disagreeing is just a fun game and they like seeing how people react to different provocations, but as soon as they realize they've hurt someone they both immediately feel terrible. They also both love their mothers more genuinely than I think I've ever seen from anyone else. It's honestly adorable
Like yes, they might come off as abrasive to people who aren't used to them, and they often say things that others misunderstand as attacks, but they're really just playful devil's advocates and kind of socially clueless. You should never take what they say as some sort of deeply held personal belief. I think they tend to feel like they don't really hold beliefs "deeply" at all
Your description of their Si was pretty good though - if a bit exaggerated. Their teeth are fine, but they don't do anything with their shaggy head or facial hair beyond ripping the knots out when they form, and I don't think I've ever seen either ever put any effort into their dress without someone else significantly pressuring them into doing so. Neither have particularly healthy eating/exercise habits, and one is prone to drinking a lot. Their ESFX mothers have thankfully instilled good showering habits in them lol
“Things always seem fairer when we look back at them, and it is out of that inaccessible tower of the past that Longing leans and beckons.”
— James Russell Lowell猫が生き甲斐
Usually irrationals frown towards planning.
LII Fe can be quite eccentric. Kant [LII] for example had parties that had a planned time frame for jokes. It was like a duty. I think those parties felt like a duty as well but maybe he liked it.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
NO Private messages, please. Use Discord instead.
Lol I can never get my ILE son to brush his hair or shave on a regular basis. I will will walk around with unbrushed wet hair until it dries.
"Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around."
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