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Thread: Gammas, what do you think about politics?

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    Default Gammas, what do you think about politics?

    From what I've observed, Gammas are like one of the most overwhelmingly politically-involved types. With Se/Ni and Te/Fi, I've noticed they always have very strong views about how things should be, plus with regards to the morality of said things.

    So anyways, for any Gammas out there, what are your opinions on politics? Not specifically your political views, I don't want to cause any arguments lol, but rather your general views on the systems of politics. I'm stuck between Alpha and Gamma and from what I understand, Gammas are incredibly politically involved, and I am just not at all. I have zero moral opinions or logical convictions about how the world should be run, except for just believing that everyone should decide how to live their lives (libertarianism) since deciding on one set way of doing things or deciding the most 'moral' thing to do for the entirety of society is near impossible. All of my family is Gamma and they all have incredibly strong convictions about the way the world should be run, and I just simply don't, my idea is just to let people decide whatever they want since picking one option is too hard since everyone's views are different. So what are your thoughts on politics in general? Is it useless? Is it extremely important? Feel free to share!

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    My opinion of politics, from Podkayne of Mars:

    "Mankind didn't invent fighting; it was here long before we were. But we invented politics. Just think of it, hon, -- Homo sapiens is the most cruel, the most vicious, the most predatory, and certainly the most deadly of all the animals in this solar system. Yet he invented politics! He figured out a way to let most of us, most of the time, get along well enough so that we usually don't kill each other."

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    What Adam says is true, yet politics is also used as a tool by those who would otherwise be outmatched by the SPs to assert themselves. In Dutch there's the saying: "Who isn't strong should be clever." In the end, most of politics is a game in which you try to provide a number of options to the people and allow them to pick from those, but you were the one who made the selection of options in the first place. The people live in a gilded cage, because they never think outside of the box that there could be other options too. They generally also don't want to ponder this, which is a form of intellectual laziness and moral decay. I cannot but say that the United States of America is the primary example of this with only two parties to choose from. All the two parties yap about is defence spending 1% more or 2% more, more civilian weaponry or banning only the heaviest of weapons, and increasing the minimum wage or abolishing it, but it only applies to civil servants anyway. There is merely the illusion of choice to placate the people, whereas the real decisions have long since been taken by America's Military-Industrial-Political Complex, their lobbyists, and super Political Action Committees ( PACs ). In the end, America's two party politics feels like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll3iyvbsRDM

    I have become very cynical about any future prospects of the States, especially since many historians are pointing towards many parallels in American society to every civil uprising ever in history, including the previous American Civil War. They predict that if an uprising does happen, it may split the country literally in two with a Northern and a Southern Union. This civil unrest is caused, because the people experience their living standard declining, because America cannot keep up being present everywhere across the globe. Their economy cannot bear the military presence anymore ever since that China has become an economical competitor. The experts agree that not 9/11, but China's acceptance to the World Trading Organization ( WTO ) is the most important event in contemporary American history, because it has caused the States' income to be substantially reduced, whereas their ( military ) expenditure even increased over the past decades. And whenever there is a shift in power we see a rise in populism. This includes desperate attempts at keeping one's power by implementing isolationist policies to protect one's industries, but which only further damage the economy, for instance steel import tariffs damaging the car industry. We also observe for a long time already the gradual decline of the living conditions of the working class. And when at least 40% of any population cannot fulfill their basic needs, there will be uprisings, civil war, and revolution. It happened during the American civil war, the French Revolution, and even the Arabian Spring, all of them were caused by impoverishment of the working class, the desire for democracy came secondary. But as a consequence, such civil war then cements the position of the former world-leading country as a second-state to the newly rising global power, in this case China.
    America is on a path of decline, which will only be worsened by Climate Change and corrupt leadership.

    Still, not voting is worse, because then you give up what little influence you do have. In democracy the people have the responsibility to prevent usurpers from seizing the power. Like Mahatma Ghandi put it: "Anyone who says that they are not interested in politics is like a drowning man who insists that he is not interested in water." This describes the States aptly, a drowning man too proud to ask for help.
    Last edited by Armitage; 01-17-2022 at 10:36 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravash7 View Post
    From what I've observed, Gammas are like one of the most overwhelmingly politically-involved types. With Se/Ni and Te/Fi, I've noticed they always have very strong views about how things should be, plus with regards to the morality of said things.

    So anyways, for any Gammas out there, what are your opinions on politics? Not specifically your political views, I don't want to cause any arguments lol, but rather your general views on the systems of politics. I'm stuck between Alpha and Gamma and from what I understand, Gammas are incredibly politically involved, and I am just not at all. I have zero moral opinions or logical convictions about how the world should be run, except for just believing that everyone should decide how to live their lives (libertarianism) since deciding on one set way of doing things or deciding the most 'moral' thing to do for the entirety of society is near impossible. All of my family is Gamma and they all have incredibly strong convictions about the way the world should be run, and I just simply don't, my idea is just to let people decide whatever they want since picking one option is too hard since everyone's views are different. So what are your thoughts on politics in general? Is it useless? Is it extremely important? Feel free to share!
    I think what make someone care about polictics not only types. Past experience, subtype, enn... can affect one's pov. With socionics, I think people with strengthen judging function (Ti, Te, Fi, Fe) care about structure and how to apply it to the world more, or D/N Gulenko subtype. With enn, we have SOs

    "my idea is just to let people decide whatever they want since picking one option is too hard since everyone's views are different"

    I feel the same. Everyone take care of themself insteal of whining too much. Asking for help is alright but thinking other people must have responsibility to help other is annoying as hell.

    And forcing other people to accept their help, in the name of justice is even more annoying...

    (Sorry, someones has try to drag me into polictics before and I get judge alot because I don't care about other people's life, so I'm always piss when remember that)


    I'm not interest in polictics. As long as my life is good, I don't care about it. But if it can strongly affect my future life, I could care about it a littlebit. For survival, of course.

    But polictics is very important, we can't deny it. I'm happy to have other people take care of this aspect to make the world better. Because I won't.
    Last edited by Tarnished; 01-17-2022 at 11:25 AM.

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    I sort of cared, and do still care about Government, (smaller please!!!!!) just not about current politics since the mid-90's. I identify as Jeffersonian, libertarian. After seeing the lies and dancing of the 2-parties all those years, any voting I've done has never been realized as right. I mean, nobody I ever voted for was voted in. Never. It's not been worth my time, for a very long time, and it wasn't all that important overall ever anyhow so ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    What Adam says is true, yet politics is also used as a tool by those who would otherwise be outmatched by the SPs to assert themselves. In Dutch there's the saying: "Who isn't strong should be clever." In the end, most of politics is a game in which you try to provide a number of options to the people and allow them to pick from those, but you were the one who made the selection of options in the first place. The people live in a gilded cage, because they never think outside of the box that there could be other options too. They generally also don't want to ponder this, which is a form of intellectual laziness and moral decay. I cannot but say that the United States of America is the primary example of this with only two parties to choose from. All the two parties yap about is defence spending 1% more or 2% more, more civilian weaponry or banning only the heaviest of weapons, and increasing the minimum wage or abolishing it, but it only applies to civil servants anyway. There is merely the illusion of choice to placate the people, whereas the real decisions have long since been taken by America's Military-Industrial-Political Complex, their lobbyists, and super Political Action Committees ( PACs ). In the end, America's two party politics feels like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll3iyvbsRDM

    I have become very cynical about any future prospects of the States, especially since many historians are pointing towards many parallels in American society to every civil uprising ever in history, including the previous American Civil War. They predict that if an uprising does happen, it may split the country literally in two with a Northern and a Southern Union. This civil unrest is caused, because the people experience their living standard declining, because America cannot keep up being present everywhere across the globe. Their economy cannot bear the military presence anymore ever since that China has become an economical competitor. The experts agree that not 9/11, but China's acceptance to the World Trading Organization ( WTO ) is the most important event in contemporary American history, because it has caused the States' income to be substantially reduced, whereas their ( military ) expenditure even increased over the past decades. And whenever there is a shift in power we see a rise in populism. This includes desperate attempts at keeping one's power by implementing isolationist policies to protect one's industries, but which only further damage the economy, for instance steel import tariffs damaging the car industry. We also observe for a long time already the gradual decline of the living conditions of the working class. And when at least 40% of any population cannot fulfill their basic needs, there will be uprisings, civil war, and revolution. It happened during the American civil war, the French Revolution, and even the Arabian Spring, all of them were caused by impoverishment of the working class, the desire for democracy came secondary. But as a consequence, such civil war then cements the position of the former world-leading country as a second-state to the newly rising global power, in this case China.
    America is on a path of decline, which will only be worsened by Climate Change and corrupt leadership.

    Still, not voting is worse, because then you give up what little influence you do have. In democracy the people have the responsibility to prevent usurpers from seizing the power. Like Mahatma Ghandi put it: "Anyone who says that they are not interested in politics is like a drowning man who insists that he is not interested in water." This describes the States aptly, a drowning man too proud to ask for help.
    Talking about revolution, I'm always think about the upper middle class leading it (with the lower class follows) and then they move to the elites class if they success. The lower class get treating better, but they're still the lower class... Chaos is a ladder, especially for the middle class...

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    I don't have strong politcal opinions and many gammas I know don't either. I'm something between a left liberal and a libertarian, my views are all over the place and I'm not a big fan of being loyal to a side or anything like that. The fanatics and revolutionaries I know tend to be betas.
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    I’m a vanilla social Democrat. I have strong uninformed opinions on economics and quality of life issues but little interest in much else

    I like some of the incentive structures of capitalism but hate the fact that everything is unbelievably expensive and cutthroat
    Last edited by Averroes; 01-22-2022 at 11:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    What Adam says is true, yet politics is also used as a tool by those who would otherwise be outmatched by the SPs to assert themselves. In Dutch there's the saying: "Who isn't strong should be clever." In the end, most of politics is a game in which you try to provide a number of options to the people and allow them to pick from those, but you were the one who made the selection of options in the first place. The people live in a gilded cage, because they never think outside of the box that there could be other options too. They generally also don't want to ponder this, which is a form of intellectual laziness and moral decay. I cannot but say that the United States of America is the primary example of this with only two parties to choose from. All the two parties yap about is defence spending 1% more or 2% more, more civilian weaponry or banning only the heaviest of weapons, and increasing the minimum wage or abolishing it, but it only applies to civil servants anyway. There is merely the illusion of choice to placate the people, whereas the real decisions have long since been taken by America's Military-Industrial-Political Complex, their lobbyists, and super Political Action Committees ( PACs ). In the end, America's two party politics feels like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll3iyvbsRDM

    I have become very cynical about any future prospects of the States, especially since many historians are pointing towards many parallels in American society to every civil uprising ever in history, including the previous American Civil War. They predict that if an uprising does happen, it may split the country literally in two with a Northern and a Southern Union. This civil unrest is caused, because the people experience their living standard declining, because America cannot keep up being present everywhere across the globe. Their economy cannot bear the military presence anymore ever since that China has become an economical competitor. The experts agree that not 9/11, but China's acceptance to the World Trading Organization ( WTO ) is the most important event in contemporary American history, because it has caused the States' income to be substantially reduced, whereas their ( military ) expenditure even increased over the past decades. And whenever there is a shift in power we see a rise in populism. This includes desperate attempts at keeping one's power by implementing isolationist policies to protect one's industries, but which only further damage the economy, for instance steel import tariffs damaging the car industry. We also observe for a long time already the gradual decline of the living conditions of the working class. And when at least 40% of any population cannot fulfill their basic needs, there will be uprisings, civil war, and revolution. It happened during the American civil war, the French Revolution, and even the Arabian Spring, all of them were caused by impoverishment of the working class, the desire for democracy came secondary. But as a consequence, such civil war then cements the position of the former world-leading country as a second-state to the newly rising global power, in this case China.
    America is on a path of decline, which will only be worsened by Climate Change and corrupt leadership.

    Still, not voting is worse, because then you give up what little influence you do have. In democracy the people have the responsibility to prevent usurpers from seizing the power. Like Mahatma Ghandi put it: "Anyone who says that they are not interested in politics is like a drowning man who insists that he is not interested in water." This describes the States aptly, a drowning man too proud to ask for help.

    Have you ever read "American Nations" by Collin Woodard? Methinks it would shed quite a lot of light upon your understanding of my country and my own nation he expands upon. I'm a proud and trueborn "Greater Appalachian". That is, a "redneck" as most outsiders would see me.

    A quick conclusion one comes to is also kinda unsurprising if one knows of these theories. Yankeedom is a nation of, by, and for Alphas/Deltas. The Deep South/Greater Appalachia was also like that, but for Gammas/Betas. Yeah, ya see the problem if one seeks to include them both into a contiguous political entity. That works whenever a "common enemy" is present but the instant that disappears? Yeah, one will inevitably violently subjugate the other and may yet succeed beyond their wildest expectations in doing so yet it changes not the fact that any and all "empires" fall. What comes after their invariably heterogeneous constitution is homogeneous nations. The Gauls who survived the Roman Empire founded France. The Anglo-Saxons Britain. The Celts Scotland and Ireland. I'm no anthropologist or something similar that'd lend me authority in these assertions, but I think you get my point.

    Such will happen here in America. This "nation" will not survive as a contiguous political entity past 2040 and will likely go the way of the Western Roman Empire somewhere around 2035. As a final "last laugh" though, we willing exiles from the Old World will still land on our feet. Say what you will about America, at least we don't have those deep-seated irrational grudges you Europeans do against each other. If only France knew how to be a bit more magnanimous in victory over Germany after WWI. I mean, I get revenge for the Franco-Prussian War but fucking hell they could have dialed it back at least a little bit! Funny Mustache man might not have been so successful had they displayed a little bit of Christain mercy...

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazymaisy View Post
    I sort of cared, and do still care about Government, (smaller please!!!!!) just not about current politics since the mid-90's. I identify as Jeffersonian, libertarian. After seeing the lies and dancing of the 2-parties all those years, any voting I've done has never been realized as right. I mean, nobody I ever voted for was voted in. Never. It's not been worth my time, for a very long time, and it wasn't all that important overall ever anyhow so ...
    Stalin put it best sadly. It's not who votes that counts. It's who counts the votes!

    Flawless logic, but also a logic that makes honest voting pointless. Indeed counterproductive on top of that. After all, if you believe your vote matters and you vote because of that what you really just did was lend your voice to the legitimacy of that regime. It is not but the very act of you voting gives the PTB that much more cover as they spout the lie that the "election" was totally above board and that they had no hand in its outcome.

    Not sure if you're a fan of George Carlin but this skit of his really resonates with me given what all has happened in recent years:


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    @End, I cannot fathom America's South being truly Gamma with the whole concept of slavery limiting people's individual possibility to work themselves up. That would be contrary to any values we as Gammas espouse.
    Also, the whole irrational grudge thing is just a running gag amongst Europeans, no-one still cares about it. Instead, we nowadays have a north-south fraction like the States, but to a lesser extent, since the only main topic of discussion is spending less ( the north ) versus spending more ( the south ) with Germany playing the act of neutral arbiter, despite being northern themselves and oftentimes proposing a compromis in their favour. But then again, someone has to stand up to France's ambitious, yet at times hare-brained plans, with its southern delegation. The individual countries and their history have long ago stopped playing a role in European politics, instead it's all about the money, but who's surprised by that? Geld regiert die Welt.

    Also, if so many people in the States are so disillusioned with politics that they have stopped voting, because they have only two incredibly flawed options to pick from, the government should either incorporate a "blank" option for non-voters like is the case in the Netherlands, or change the whole gerrymandered district system in an actually fair single transferrable vote system in which more than the two established parties can partake ( https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...m0WyZ8cfB1TxXa ). Or both. But it's unlikely that the two established parties will ever do so, because it limits their reign, so it'll only change after the Second American Civil War.

    Still, my point stands that by not voting you give up on what little power you do have to influence the government.
    Last edited by Armitage; 01-28-2022 at 07:27 AM.

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    It sucks.

    Alright, jokes-aside, I don't think that despite the involvement inside of politics would certainly be a benefit, there is a pointless statement that being made by those politicians that somehow doesn't make sense, which is quoted as "Truth is hard, propaganda is cheap." as they started to speak nonsense and gibberish stuff of being one and my stance has always been neutral and I'm not that much involved into it.

    I'm a central by political view but then again, mostly, I don't care.
    Last edited by Deductive; 01-27-2022 at 10:25 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravash7 View Post
    From what I've observed, Gammas are like one of the most overwhelmingly politically-involved types. With Se/Ni and Te/Fi, I've noticed they always have very strong views about how things should be, plus with regards to the morality of said things.

    So anyways, for any Gammas out there, what are your opinions on politics? Not specifically your political views, I don't want to cause any arguments lol, but rather your general views on the systems of politics. I'm stuck between Alpha and Gamma and from what I understand, Gammas are incredibly politically involved, and I am just not at all. I have zero moral opinions or logical convictions about how the world should be run, except for just believing that everyone should decide how to live their lives (libertarianism) since deciding on one set way of doing things or deciding the most 'moral' thing to do for the entirety of society is near impossible. All of my family is Gamma and they all have incredibly strong convictions about the way the world should be run, and I just simply don't, my idea is just to let people decide whatever they want since picking one option is too hard since everyone's views are different. So what are your thoughts on politics in general? Is it useless? Is it extremely important? Feel free to share!
    I used to very much be like the bolded, but at a certain point, you have kids (or start mentally preparing yourself to while you are in the planning phase), or expand away from that self-centric mentality, and realize...we are all in one big pool and we all impact one another. It'd be great to simply let everyone live their own lives, but that's not the way the world works in reality.

    I see politics as very important, as they govern the lives of my (future) kids and all of the the coming generations of the human race, animals/environmental health, the very survival of the planet.

    The waters are still, but still waters run deep, and a leviathan sleeps within.

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    With age, maturity, and experience, you basically begin to drop the self-centric views and realize that the world is much bigger than your own little bubble that is your own everyday life. You get older, or you have some near death experience(s), and start to think..."you know, I'm not going to be around forever." Your priorities begin to change, your focus begins to transition. You take into consideration what exactly you are leaving behind when you leave this world. Your desire is for securing not your own life, but the lives of your loved ones (children, grandchildren, etc.) that will remain here in the world.
    Last edited by Lady Leviathan; 01-27-2022 at 06:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    @End, I cannot fathom America's South being truly Gamma with the whole concept of slavery limiting people's individual possibility to work themselves up. That would be contrary to any values we as Gammas espouse.
    Also, the whole irrational grudge thing is just a running gag amongst Europeans, no-one still cares about it. Instead, we nowadays have a north-south fraction like the States, but to a lesser extent, since the only main topic of discussion is spending less ( the north ) versus spending more ( the south ) with Germany playing the act of neutral arbiter, despite being northern themselves and oftentimes proposing a compromis in their favour. But then again, someone has to stand up to France's ambitious, yet at times hare-brained plans, with its southern delegation. The individual countries and their history have long ago stopped playing a role in European politics, instead it's all about the money, but who's surprised by that?

    Also, if so many people in the States are so disillusioned with politics that they have stopped voting, because they have only two incredibly flawed options to pick from, the government should either incorporate a "blank" option for non-voters like is the case in the Netherlands, or change the whole gerrymandered district system in an actually fair single transferrable vote system in which more than the two established parties can partake ( https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...m0WyZ8cfB1TxXa ). Or both. But it's unlikely that the two established parties will ever do so, because it limits their reign, so it'll only change after the Second American Civil War.

    Still, my point stands that by not voting you give up on what little power you do have to influence the government.
    I suppose this is where the key differences between our types occur. Though attacking the same problem from similar angles our conclusions are ultimately radically different. Slavery is, I hate to say it, more nuanced than one would think. The reason it is an inferior system to things like capitalism and wages are many but I will point you towards the primary reason it is, was, and will always be doomed to failure (and why war with the South was also ultimately unnecessary).

    Ever hear of the "curse" of slavery? The reason why it curses any civilization that practices it is twofold (perhaps threefold if we get theological). The upper classes in such a society will invariably be Slave Owners. Thus, anything that makes a single slave able to do the work of 2 or more will be actively suppressed by the ruling elite. I mean, if some podunk farmer has a way to get the yield of 10 slaves out of 1 and he's the "first" to realize and actualize that he and his lowborn ilk could and likely would shoot past all the old fogies with hundreds of slaves working their plantations at a fraction of the cost and that too is a self-reinforcing feedback loop.

    Case in point: The Romans actually knew of steam power and the rudiments of how it might be useful. It does not take a genius to conceive of how a steam powered wheel might be useful somehow. It snowballs from there but why was that intriguing snowball not given the slightest nudge required to get it going in their time? Slavery and its aforementioned curse.

    Thus, us Gammas are eternally ahead of our time. Far too ahead in the case of ILI's like myself. Ever hear of the "dynastic cycle" of China? A similar dynamic I can sympathize with all too well. In the final stages of a dynasty people like me would go into the emperor's court, shove aside all the idiots blocking me from making my point to the emperor and beg him to reconsider his current policies. Kneel, cry, plead, beg, whatever it took so long as my darkest prophecy would be averted. The emperor?:

    "I'm sorry, just got done snorting the 20th line of opium off my newest 16 year old consort. You said that's a bad thing?"
    "Yes."
    "You also say there's a major rebellion heading towards Bejing and that many of our military forces and civilian population is supportive of their efforts?"
    "Yes!"
    "So you would have me consider their grievances and earnestly try to do right by them?"
    "YES! DO THAT! PLEASE!"
    "You've sealed your own fate ILI. Tortue him as slowly and painfully as possible guard captain. I have a sudden craving to fuck concubine #9. Bring her to my chamber...

    My only consolation is that fucker got tortured way more gleefully than I was. I died a quick and anonymous death thanks to my torturer's incompetence. That debauched emperor I tried to save however... He died way more slowly and I wish I could say I didn't take some joy out of that, but that'd be a lie...

    After all, who truly mourns the fate of... well, I can spell it out but I'd rather not get banned somehow just yet...
    Last edited by End; 01-28-2022 at 05:40 AM.

  16. #16
    Psychology BSc and statistics MSc Armitage's Avatar
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    I know, this is why historically Latin-America never took off, because the slavery practices by the rich Spanish and Portuguese incentivized them to hinder technological progress, in order to limit their competition. That, and the American meddling into their politics by replacing legitimately elected democratic leaders with tinpot dictators. Tinpot dictators who were paranoid of being dethroned via a coup d'état like they themselves did, so they turned to populism, in order to keep the people's favour. Populism that includes economic isolation policies à la Trump, such as increasing import tariffs for steel to crudge their own uncompetitive steel mills. But such policies inevitably drive up the costs of production for more advanced goods, such as cars and boats, which need steel, and thus in the end damages more sectors ( the car industry, the fishing sector ), than that it protects ( steel mills ). The result of which are protests, riots, and sometimes even civil war, depending on how badly and for how long the economy has been damaged by the populist's protectionism. Only for then the old populist to be dethroned by a new one, and so the vicious cycle continues. Just look at Venezuela, it used to be the shining light of Latin-America in the 1960's with an economy almost on par with the United States of America, until the States started taking an obsessive interest in their oil production...

    Small note, it were the Greeks who invented the first steam engine, but they were as hedonistic as the Roman culture based upon them. They deemed the first steam engine an interesting toy for the rich to show off with.

    By the way, is it coincidence that your description of the Chinese emperor sounds like an unhealthy SEE-Se?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    I know, this is why historically Latin-America never took off, because the slavery practices by the rich Spanish and Portuguese incentivized them to hinder technological progress, in order to limit their competition. That, and the American meddling into their politics by replacing legitimately elected democratic leaders with tinpot dictators. Tinpot dictators who were paranoid of being dethroned via a coup d'état like they themselves did, so they turned to populism, in order to keep the people's favour. Populism that includes economic isolation policies à la Trump, such as increasing import tariffs for steel to crudge their own uncompetitive steel mills. But such policies inevitably drive up the costs of production for more advanced goods, such as cars and boats, which need steel, and thus in the end damages more sectors ( the car industry, the fishing sector ), than that it protects ( steel mills ). The result of which are protests, riots, and sometimes even civil war, depending on how badly and for how long the economy has been damaged by the populist's protectionism. Only for then the old populist to be dethroned by a new one, and so the vicious cycle continues. Just look at Venezuela, it used to be the shining light of Latin-America in the 1960's with an economy almost on par with the United States of America, until the States started taking an obsessive interest in their oil production...

    Small note, it were the Greeks who invented the first steam engine, but they were as hedonistic as the Roman culture based upon them. They deemed the first steam engine an interesting toy for the rich to show off with.

    By the way, is it coincidence that your description of the Chinese emperor sounds like an unhealthy SEE-Se?
    Everyone expects the other person to be a Dual.

  18. #18
    Seed my wickedness Sanguine Miasma's Avatar
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    alpha: anarchism (as in literal true relaxed form)
    beta: empires
    gamma: instituonalization
    delta: corporate blindness
    MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
    idiosyncratic type
    Life is a joke but do you have a life?

  19. #19
    End's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    By the way, is it coincidence that your description of the Chinese emperor sounds like an unhealthy SEE-Se?
    Perhaps. I was going for an absolute fool who had been handed a position of opulent wealth and the ability to satisfy any craving for pleasure by their command from birth (as most late-stage Chinese Emperors were). That harem made sure there was always a male heir but, well, combine that with how polygamy tends to work out in regards to the women involved in it and the court Eunuchs who made sure nobody but the emperor was fucking those women (and by extension ensuring the "purity of the blood" as it were)... Yeah, China be fucked up for damned good reason. The recent cycle may have done away with the Harem and Eunuchs but make no mistake, the CCP sees itself as yet another dynasty and so too do the people they rule over. It is, after all, who they are.

    I also think any type can fall into the trap of the most base elements of our fallen nature. That my description of such a person seems to fit the SEE first and foremost I feel is no coincidence. You naturally seek the ideal version of your dual. Sadly, in seeing and grasping its perfection and draw as only you could you gain a vision of its opposite in turn. You are uniquely and keenly aware of how their greatest virtues could become their most damning flaws in turn. How they may well sentence you to a slow death if you tried to save them from the worst aspects of themselves yet you cannot help but try...

    Fun exercise: Imagine such a debauched, clueless, and broken ESI- as that same Chinese emperor/empress. What would be different in your final and desperate plea to perhaps get them to save themselves from that massive rebellion marching on the capital with the backing of both the military and the civilian populace?

  20. #20
    Psychology BSc and statistics MSc Armitage's Avatar
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    "Why are you not at your post leading your men, commander?"
    'I came to warn you, Sir! My scouts returned and found the villages deserted by the enemy.'
    "Good. Then we do not have to spend time liberating them. We can quickly move towards the industrial zone instead. We need to take those resources away from the enemy."
    'I expect the enemy deserted the villages, in order to barricade their factories.'
    "Then we push through. We possess superior numbers."
    'They know this, they must have set up a trap. We better take the safe option and bomb those factories, so they no longer control it and we don't incur unnecessary casualties.'
    "Trapped with what? They barely had any munition left to defend themselves. We can as easily take them on there, as we could here."
    'Who knows what was left in those factories? They could have repurposed them for all we know.'
    "They had no time for that. You shall approach the industrial zone from the south, and lieutenant Bourgès will arrive from the north. They will then be surrounded by us and the mountains. Now back to leading your platoon, commander, we have factories to besiege."
    'I shall not, as it is my responsibility to protect my men and women.'
    "It is your responsibility to defeat the enemy."
    'This battle won't decide who wins the war. I am not going to risk the lives of my troops for those factories.'
    "Let me repeat, commander, lead your platoon to take control of these factories."
    'You heard me, I won't, it will be the undoing of my soldiers and will put our army at a disadvantage.'
    "I'm not asking you, this is a direct order, commander!"
    'I won't lead my troops into their graves!'
    "You won't lead anyone anymore from now on, if you don't do what I say!
    'Just bomb those damned factories!'
    "You are hereby stripped of all your ranks."
    'Your singleminded obsession with the enemy will do us all in! I trusted you to do the right thing, but you only care for your own prestige like all those others!'
    "And I trusted you to do the right thing. I want to hear no disrespect from you anymore. Lead the ex-commander out, men."
    Last edited by Armitage; 01-29-2022 at 11:50 AM.

  21. #21

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    Never been much interested in politics before. But with recent events become more and more interested. For example how China has changed from a more open/commercialized era in the 90s/2000s to a more emotionally tight-knit/politically isolated era lead by Xi starting from mid 2010s. Russia had a similar transformation with Putin. Been reading and wanting to study more about the democracy progress in Asian countries and how to apply the knowledge to make changes in the future.
    Last edited by Vis; 02-06-2022 at 09:09 PM.

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