Can You Hate Your Own Quadra?

[BudgieEnthusiast]

Sorry if this is the wrong forum to post. I'm studying Quadras at the moment but have problems finding where I belong.

So I've been told by people around me that I'm probably LSI. Thing is the Beta quadra seems extremely threatening to me, I don't think I could get along with people who are constantly vying for power and domination. If I was a character from Game of Thrones, I'd definitely die from a stress-induced cancer. I also hate any big groups, especially the ideological ones as they remind me of cults. In all honesty I feel like I might be a mistyped SLI or ESI with lousy social skills. Also I'm too pessimistic to be a positivist.

I've realized that I pretty much preach about and want to adhere to the Delta values (they seem like the most "correct" and "secure" way to live); sometimes secretly idealize Gamma ones for personal success but am told by people around me that I act and think like a Beta. I feel as though Deltas exist only in a utopia and the world is overrun by Betas so I have to be on guard to not fall prey to them.

I've read about LSIs seeking to be any part of a hierarchy and thriving in those situations. On the contrary, I try and avoid places like that where I'm going to be below someone in the pecking order. Didn't join the military for that reason. I used to dream of being a surgeon but changed my mind during my rotations after being ordered around and constantly threatened. I had to use antiemetics to not throw up from the stress. Punishments were common but I did whatever I was told diligently without question so I never received one. To get it out of my system, on my last shift I told my superior that he is famous for being a power tripping jerk whom everyone hates.

The only reason I've studied medicine is to have a stable income without dealing with any corporate overlords. I'm going to open my own practice when I can afford it just to not have anyone above me. I also used to have a feud with the class president (probably LSE) over the despotic rules he would make; to me he had no business making rules as he was simply a student. Curiously he started to treat me like a friend after I yelled at him in front of everyone, if someone did that to me they would get on my shit list.

An EII told me that I actually love hierarchies and power struggles but dislike not being at the top and that if I was a Delta I could tolerate being a subordinate or wouldn't accuse people of trying to dominate me. If that was true, wouldn't it be fun and easy to me instead of feeling like fighting for my life? Also wouldn't I join in and go for the top position instead of avoiding them altogether? I simply want to be left alone to do my job in peace.

Had the same problem with MBTI, I would test as ISTJ but the stereotypes of "dutiful minion" never seemed right to me.

[Eliza Thomason]

Sometimes I get good type insight on little info, but not at the moment (very full mind at the moment). But if I get a good insight for your type I will tell you.

However as you are feeling aversion to Beta values, that might put you in Delta. Also the LSE not getting put off by your correction could mean you share Delta values; your input was something he could handle coming from a Delta point of view. Have you seen this Quadra Values article? https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...15-Four-Quadra

My husband is SLI and he prefers to stay busy without a lot of supervision/input, too. He is happy for input, which he then thinks through, but not so happy when it means change direction/do it different NOW . He prefers to figure things out, think things through, in his own quiet way. Seems like a LSI would be more open to what the group thinks of what he is doing, being Fe-valuing.

If you are using the J vs. P dichotomy to determine your type, sometimes for a P, your state in life makes you get really good at J because it is required for your career/field of study. Usually when figuring preferences, you have to think, am I more P either option is fine? Because maybe you are just J a lot because it is constantly required of you. So you may be a ISTp with really efficient, well-practiced J.

Also if you are looking between LSI and SLI, those two are different cognitive types. The LSI is Casual Determinist and the [B]SLI is Vortical-Synergetic. See: https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...Victor-Gulenko

(That forms-of-Cognition page is not ever easy reading for me, but whenever I refer to it, but it always makes sense to me, even though I cannot then explain it well.)

Another thing is, if you are figuring b between LSI and SLI, Renin Dichotomies are a help.

Though, whenever Renin Dichotomies are mentioned here, someone will say Renins are completely useless. But I find them completely helpful every time. Everyone I know, of various types, always fits into their Renin Dichotomies for their type. I often suspect that a person saying Renins are useless is a person who has mistyped themselves. Because if that were the case, of course Renins would make no sense to that person.

I always find Sociotypes pages useful for Renins. ]. See this page: https://www.sociotype.com/socionics/dichotomies/for the titles of those two types. Click at the top for the different Dichotomies. SLI and LSI share some of the Renins but listed below are the ones you will want to click on and read because those two types have these opposing Renins:
SLI is Serious, LSi is Merry.
SLI is Judicious, LSI is Decisive
SLI is Strategic, LSI is Tactical
SLI is a Constructivist, LSI is an Emotivist
SLI is Result, LSI is Process
SLI is Dynamic, LSI is Static
SLI is Asking, LSI is Declaring

[PinKDiGiT18]

Sorry if this is the wrong forum to post. I'm studying Quadras at the moment but have problems finding where I belong.

So I've been told by people around me that I'm probably LSI. Thing is the Beta quadra seems extremely threatening to me, I don't think I could get along with people who are constantly vying for power and domination. If I was a character from Game of Thrones, I'd definitely die from a stress-induced cancer. I also hate any big groups, especially the ideological ones as they remind me of cults. In all honesty I feel like I might be a mistyped SLI or ESI with lousy social skills. Also I'm too pessimistic to be a positivist.

I've realized that I pretty much preach about and want to adhere to the Delta values (they seem like the most "correct" and "secure" way to live); sometimes secretly idealize Gamma ones for personal success but am told by people around me that I act and think like a Beta. I feel as though Deltas exist only in a utopia and the world is overrun by Betas so I have to be on guard to not fall prey to them.

I've read about LSIs seeking to be any part of a hierarchy and thriving in those situations. On the contrary, I try and avoid places like that where I'm going to be below someone in the pecking order. Didn't join the military for that reason. I used to dream of being a surgeon but changed my mind during my rotations after being ordered around and constantly threatened. I had to use antiemetics to not throw up from the stress. Punishments were common but I did whatever I was told diligently without question so I never received one. To get it out of my system, on my last shift I told my superior that he is famous for being a power tripping jerk whom everyone hates.

The only reason I've studied medicine is to have a stable income without dealing with any corporate overlords. I'm going to open my own practice when I can afford it just to not have anyone above me. I also used to have a feud with the class president (probably LSE) over the despotic rules he would make; to me he had no business making rules as he was simply a student. Curiously he started to treat me like a friend after I yelled at him in front of everyone, if someone did that to me they would get on my shit list.

An EII told me that I actually love hierarchies and power struggles but dislike not being at the top and that if I was a Delta I could tolerate being a subordinate or wouldn't accuse people of trying to dominate me. If that was true, wouldn't it be fun and easy to me instead of feeling like fighting for my life? Also wouldn't I join in and go for the top position instead of avoiding them altogether? I simply want to be left alone to do my job in peace.

Had the same problem with MBTI, I would test as ISTJ but the stereotypes of "dutiful minion" never seemed right to me.

idk, a lot of what you wrote sounds like me and I’m EII. The statement “if I was a Delta I could tolerate being a subordinate” is something I’ve heard in some form from other EIIs but personally triggers the hell out of my Se PoLR.

I could definitely see SLI or ESI for you.

[Adam Strange]

idk, a lot of what you wrote sounds like me and I’m EII. The statement “if I was a Delta I could tolerate being a subordinate” is something I’ve heard in some form from other EIIs but personally triggers the hell out of my Se PoLR.

I could definitely see SLI or ESI for you.

I agree, @PinKDiGiT18, that @BudgieEnthusiast could easily be an SLI. His post sounds almost like something I would say, but I think, overall, that SLI might fit him better.

[Djinn]

I think around this time last year you made a type me questionnaire and I said I thought you were delta, likely one of the delta introverts. I still believe that is the case.

Besides, the idea of liking a type of bird enough to consider yourself an enthusiast and name yourself as such gives me some delta vibes.

[Bethanyclaire]

People are often not friends with people in their quadra. Friendly perhaps, but not necessarily friends. If that helps.

[chriscorey]

iintheeveniing

[chriscorey]

in the evening

[Sol]

In general case - no.
People which have so similar life priorities as of same quadra have higher than common positive attitude to each other. This does not mean that you like anything, it's about overal evaluation compared to types with worse IR.

also

1) IR theory is about informal communication of real people and not about liking of text descriptions.
2) Concrete people in concrete situations may annoy by other traits than Jung types and by different behavior - this may overweight IR effects sometimes. So to understand IR related it's useful to have more examples of people of those types. 2 types of your own quadra of same club are top level of neutral - this makes easier for people of those types to give negative impression compared a chance this to happen with better IR as duality.
3) IR theory (in positive/negative side) is mostly about friendship abbility - rather close relations, not just pals. Where such relations are not or lesser supposed or wanted - IR may have lower influence. It's among reasons why for people of other sex IR theory should work better. Non-types factors may easier overweight in such situations.

When you'll communicate significantly and lesser formally with people with correctly thought types (including your own), - with more quantity you'll notive IR effects more clear as they should to be. As overal sum - people with positive IR will be liked higher as persons, irrationally. For concrete 2 people it can be lesser clear, as non-Jungtypes factors have more noticable influence. Also, among max and min by your sympathy during the life - a chance of IR influence is higher too, - it's low possibly you'll be thinking people with bad IR among most pleasant you saw.

[WVBRY]

If the descrptions put you off that much, and you've lived real life situations where you experienced such things as hierarchy pushed to an extreme level, it's possible you are something else.

I want to comment on this:

An EII told me that I actually love hierarchies and power struggles but dislike not being at the top and that if I was a Delta I could tolerate being a subordinate or wouldn't accuse people of trying to dominate me.

I think that they are somehwat correct in that deltas are not particularly focused on such things and seem to be - power struggles have a strong impact on betas and gammas' psyche. Still, I don't think you are necessarily beta, but possibly gamma.

I would also add that a creative subtype is always less group oriented than normalizing, for example.

And also a beta who has experienced oppression would be opposed to symbols that to them represent that oppression - for example hierarchy could a thing they may be against.

What is your attitude towards work? Is it an opportunity for growth or self-realization, ideally?

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Well I keep saying over and over again- Game of Thrones is a very Gamma-y show - not Beta. Either the author/creator was Gamma ILI himself or he was an Alpha ILE showing how much he himself hated a Gamma world, as he himself loathed the evil characters as well/the society that enables those kind of things, and ILEs can be worldly about how people really are that way....

There wasn't much 'Merry' about it really...

Not wanting to be a slave or a subordinate I think is a universal thing - not type related. Who wants to be thought of as a bottom of the barrel plebian? Even people who really are like that- tend to think that they are serving a 'Higher Power' and they will be rewarded in another life as a top dawg in Heaven- so their happiness with it doesn't feel that genuine to me. Many people who work in minimum wage jobs- do feel dead inside and tend to be angry/dead and annoyed at their life status. They don't exactly look cherry to be there- unless it's really temporary and they were able to move up soon etc.

And I doubt most people would enjoy what Cercei does etc unless they were unhealthy or fucked up. I do think a lot of Delta does that Te virtue signal thing a lot though... and if that sort of thing annoys you too much then you probably are Beta. But just because a person loathes Te's insitutional virtue signaling- doesn't mean that they enjoy ripping the eyelashes off toddlers either. It's probably very common for a SLE to be arrested for doing something like that lol - but it doesn't make all SLEs bad/or the entire people in the quarda bad people.

[WVBRY]

Well I keep saying over and over again- Game of Thrones is a very Gamma-y show - not Beta. Either the author/creator was Gamma ILI himself or he was an Alpha ILE showing how much he himself hated a Gamma world, as he himself loathed the evil characters as well/the society that enables those kind of things, and ILEs can be worldly about how people really are that way....

There wasn't much 'Merry' about it really...

Not wanting to be a slave or a subordinate I think is a universal thing - not type related. Who wants to be thought of as a bottom of the barrel plebian? Even people who really are like that- tend to think that they are serving a 'Higher Power' and they will be rewarded in another life as a top dawg in Heaven- so their happiness with it doesn't feel that genuine to me. Many people who work in minimum wage jobs- do feel dead inside and tend to be angry/dead and annoyed at their life status. They don't exactly look cherry to be there- unless it's really temporary and they were able to move up soon etc.

And I doubt most people would enjoy what Cercei does etc unless they were unhealthy or fucked up. I do think a lot of Delta does that Te virtue signal thing a lot though... and if that sort of thing annoys you too much then you probably are Beta. But just because a person loathes Te's insitutional virtue signaling- doesn't mean that they enjoy ripping the eyelashes off toddlers either. It's probably very common for a SLE to be arrested for doing something like that lol - but it doesn't make all SLEs bad/or the entire people in the quarda bad people.

I haven't watched much GoT because when I did I felt put off by the way relations between the characters were depicted.

I agree with the bulk of what you are saying here - noone wants to be oppressed and shit on, regardless of type, and many hierarchies do that to people at the bottom. I think it might be more interesting to look at one's attitude towards work and the workplace - if one even knows what that attitude is. What do you think? As a beta, do you view work as an opportunity for growth and self-realisation, or is that a Te-Fi thing?

[WVBRY]

I also wrote this, which to me is related to the topic at hand because it deals with how one's conscious attitudes towards groups and society are influenced by type: https://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/showthread.php/59415-Typology-Random-Thoughts?p=1497789#post1497789

[PinKDiGiT18]

People are often not friends with people in their quadra. Friendly perhaps, but not necessarily friends. If that helps.

this is sad, but true.

[MissDucki]

I think you can. I like to think the thing we hate the most if often what we are

I don’t hate alpha. Alpha is actually the quadra I am most comfortable in. But I did not grow up with a lot of alphas or did I have close ones growing up. They were mainly gamma or delta. It feels a bit strange and foreign sometimes.

[roger557]

Quadra values are an orientative concept only--individually a person might hold different values. For example, I am a gamma and all these things about 'success' and economic thriving etc, I don't give a crap about. I also believe or suspect gammas in particular have lost or forgotten their true grand-scheme purpose.

My father is LSI-Ti and he claims he has a problem with authority and hierarchical structures. He's a 9w8 so that might have to do with it; enneagram is probably also a great factor as to what individual values you actually hold. Feel free to take the sociotype test if you haven't and you might finally find your true type. Also, you could show us some pictures for VI, as VI is very effective and doesn't lie; LSI looks different from an EII, SLI, or ESI.

[serenaeva]

If you genuinely hate your Quadra, then you are more than likely mistyped.

I am not at all saying you'd be automatically fond of all people of your Quadra. There's plenty of instances during which i've found myself having had conflict or been annoyed with people.. but there's always ultimately much more of a natural flow and understanding as to where one's coming from when you're talking to individuals that are typologically similar to you that way. Betas, Alphas and Deltas inspire much more "hate" in me on average (namely Alphas).

[Bethanyclaire]

this is sad, but true.

I think it’s just a thing. I’m quoting someone else, but I’ve observed it myself too. I’m not sure why it’s the case, I think you feel a bit confused how much to trust people from your own quadra, like you might let each other down.

Some types/people prefer light friendships, therefore may be more comfortable spending time with people from the quadra.

Edit: I don’t know if this includes identicals btw…haven’t observed enough identicals around each other

[Ibreen]

If I was a character from Game of Thrones, I'd definitely die from a stress-induced cancer.

idk if it would be that stressful to me but I REALLY DISLIKE IT when gammas step on others to get what they want. Wth THOSE ARE PPLS FEELINGS. I never watched GoT except for snippets but that’s the overall vibe I got

[Tallmo]

Sorry if this is the wrong forum to post. I'm studying Quadras at the moment but have problems finding where I belong.

If you're new to Socionics and don't know your type then take the quadra values with a grain of salt. It doesn't necessarily work on an individual level. It's more something you see later when you have typed lots of people.

[adage]

I remember having a talk with an LSI over the way we both thought of delta values as objectively better than the three others quadra.
It comes from this idea of progression, of growing up into a more stable version of yourself as well as the nutter exagerated syereotypes peeps throw around.
Alphas are childish morons who can make it in life and hide it behind having fun. Betas are ridiculous fucktwat who seek social recognition through power seeking and crush anyone they can to achieve it. Gammas are inhumane shits who are only out there for cash.
And delta, well, they are boring old people who are done what all the garbage the young'uns throw around.
I wouldn't recommend typing by quadra values if this is what stands out to you.

As it was said above, quadra values end up making sense after a while through people's attitude, and an attitude can be subtle, even ignored consciously or unconsciously.

An exemple: I hate gamma values, yet I have to say I am profit and efficiency minded in attitude. I often feel inhumane for it and would much prefer being genuinely kind and compassionate instead of considering people's feeling from a standpoint of facts and how bettering feelings can make them become more efficient at life in general. Doesn't mean I'm evil, I just help others knowing them feeling better profits me and the world at large.
I grew up around a lot of alphas, kind of messed up my self-esteem.

I find socionics to be more of a tool to compare between possibilities and find a stable ground to build something that will last. That takes time tho.

[BudgieEnthusiast]

Thank you everyone for your replies! I want to give more details as to why I can't decide between LSI, ESI, and SLI.

I think I might be Ne-PolR because change really stresses me out, I come up with tons of worst-case scenarios regarding the future and try to prepare in advance but mostly things work out fine despite my expectations (though that might be just good old anxiety).

I don't know what that says about my Fi/Fe but that particular EII said that we probably wouldn't even meet if we weren't related because apparently I'm "too aggressive" for her and she is "too fake" for me. This is because once she called us best friends and I asked how am I close to her when she is nice to me the same way she is nice to everyone, from her neighbor to the cargo man. She's too distant and doesn't share anything personal of importance which makes me think I'm just some random person to her.

I think I'm bad at Fi and am a negativist because I have trouble telling whether someone likes me or not. I hang on to a facial expression, a word, or the voice of tone and decide that the person dislikes me. I need a person to routinely reach out or act extremely close to me to consider them as a friend. I tend to just assume everyone dislikes me and might be potential enemies I need to watch out for. At the same time I'm prone to thinking if someone is too nice, they are just looking to use me or are like that to everyone. My attitude to someone extremely depends on what I think about their feelings towards me, I can go from very cold to people-pleasing. A close friend who is into MBTI jokes that I change between ISTJ and ISFJ depending on the person. Ironically despite all that suspicion when someone sings my praises and talks about how much they need my help I stupidly start doing huge favors for them, hence fulfilling my prophecy about being used by seemingly nice people. At the same time I dislike receiving help because then I feel indebted to that person and have to come up with a way to get even.

I think I might be Fe seeking because I don't mind hard work when I'm with people who don't antagonize me. I didn't get stressed that much when I worked 36-hour shifts with a kinder surgeon (interestingly I'm one of the few people he is good to, he would laugh and joke with me but would cuss out the others under him). The ones in my original post were absolute hell despite being 24-hour shifts as I loathed everyone there. And people get very surprised when they see me in the company of a friend, I go from silent and looking angry to laughing and making lots of weird jokes.

Aside from the hierarchy part, I also don't think parts about LSI's easily enduring hardships fit me. I'm very good at getting anxious or depressed. An easier job might've been better for someone like me.

@Eliza Thomason
I've seen those articles and to be honest, they make me more confused as they all fit me and don't at the same time. Same thing with Reinin, here are the ones I could decide on:

Decisive
Negativist (SLI and LSI are both positivists)
Process
Constructivist/Emotivist?: I don't watch the same movies or visit the same places unless I've forgotten most of it, only replay video games on harder modes or for achievements but at the same time I don't like trying out new food and pretty much eat the same 15 or so dishes wherever I go. I tend to offer people concrete solutions or attempt to solve their problems myself but don't know which one I like to receive. People with negative attitudes bother me even in a strictly business sense.

I think I'm more of a J type because I can practically never go with the flow even in small matters. I get angry when a plan changes. Even as a little kid I'd try to get other kids to behave in ceremonies or yell at my parents for stepping on grass, stash the little salt packets from takeouts so they wouldn't be thrown into the garbage. I guess I could also be a P type, my flat and car are always messy.

Besides, the idea of liking a type of bird enough to consider yourself an enthusiast and name yourself as such gives me some delta vibes.

I'm curious, how so?

I would also add that a creative subtype is always less group oriented than normalizing, for example.

What is your attitude towards work? Is it an opportunity for growth or self-realization, ideally?

Is there a good article or test on the subtypes, the ones I saw didn't explain much.

The work I do has to be vital and have a big impact on society/people. That's why I wanted to specialize in major surgeries in the first place, they deal with life&death and affect a person on a large scale rather than treating less severe ailments. When I worked in the ER and it was mostly people abusing it to get prescriptions for a common cold or constipation; I was feeling absolutely worthless. My work must give me security, which means guaranteed employment with a good income during hard times. It has to be something respect-worthy. I believe money and prestige are power which ultimately leads to security. But those must be obtained through hard-work, not by cheating or stepping on others.

Well I keep saying over and over again- Game of Thrones is a very Gamma-y show - not Beta. Either the author/creator was Gamma ILI himself or he was an Alpha ILE showing how much he himself hated a Gamma world, as he himself loathed the evil characters as well/the society that enables those kind of things, and ILEs can be worldly about how people really are that way....

There wasn't much 'Merry' about it really...

If you keep saying this over and over, I'd love to read a detailed post of yours on this matter.

And I doubt most people would enjoy what Cercei does etc unless they were unhealthy or fucked up. I do think a lot of Delta does that Te virtue signal thing a lot though... and if that sort of thing annoys you too much then you probably are Beta. But just because a person loathes Te's insitutional virtue signaling- doesn't mean that they enjoy ripping the eyelashes off toddlers either. It's probably very common for a SLE to be arrested for doing something like that lol - but it doesn't make all SLEs bad/or the entire people in the quarda bad people.

What I meant was the whole politicking all the major characters were doing rather than Cersei specifically. When I don't know exactly where I stand with people I get super paranoid. I don't understand what you mean by "Te virtue signaling".

My father is LSI-Ti and he claims he has a problem with authority and hierarchical structures. He's a 9w8 so that might have to do with it; enneagram is probably also a great factor as to what individual values you actually hold. Feel free to take the sociotype test if you haven't and you might finally find your true type. Also, you could show us some pictures for VI, as VI is very effective and doesn't lie; LSI looks different from an EII, SLI, or ESI.

I'm either a 1 or a 6, not sure which to be honest. I relate to 6 because I'm huge on being secure and frankly am a paranoid person. I also relate to 1 because I'm a perfectionist who always seeks to be above any criticism, I constantly battle the feeling of being secretly evil so have rigid non-pragmatic rules to cope with it. I have gotten into trouble for telling the truth when lying would serve me better, I also routinely give money to people or do favors for them in order to feel like a decent person.

Tests were never much help to me in that regard, maybe I suck at them. I've taken the extended test from www.sociotype.com and it came up as LSE-2Te (there's no way I'm an extrovert), other possibilities were LSI, SLI, LII. The test on Gulenko's website resulted in ESI. I've also tested as INFP, INTJ and ISFJ in MBTI but I'm actually an ISTJ.

[Stray Cat]

Sorry if this is the wrong forum to post. I'm studying Quadras at the moment but have problems finding where I belong.

So I've been told by people around me that I'm probably LSI. Thing is the Beta quadra seems extremely threatening to me, I don't think I could get along with people who are constantly vying for power and domination. If I was a character from Game of Thrones, I'd definitely die from a stress-induced cancer. I also hate any big groups, especially the ideological ones as they remind me of cults. In all honesty I feel like I might be a mistyped SLI or ESI with lousy social skills. Also I'm too pessimistic to be a positivist.

I've realized that I pretty much preach about and want to adhere to the Delta values (they seem like the most "correct" and "secure" way to live); sometimes secretly idealize Gamma ones for personal success but am told by people around me that I act and think like a Beta. I feel as though Deltas exist only in a utopia and the world is overrun by Betas so I have to be on guard to not fall prey to them.

I've read about LSIs seeking to be any part of a hierarchy and thriving in those situations. On the contrary, I try and avoid places like that where I'm going to be below someone in the pecking order. Didn't join the military for that reason. I used to dream of being a surgeon but changed my mind during my rotations after being ordered around and constantly threatened. I had to use antiemetics to not throw up from the stress. Punishments were common but I did whatever I was told diligently without question so I never received one. To get it out of my system, on my last shift I told my superior that he is famous for being a power tripping jerk whom everyone hates.

The only reason I've studied medicine is to have a stable income without dealing with any corporate overlords. I'm going to open my own practice when I can afford it just to not have anyone above me. I also used to have a feud with the class president (probably LSE) over the despotic rules he would make; to me he had no business making rules as he was simply a student. Curiously he started to treat me like a friend after I yelled at him in front of everyone, if someone did that to me they would get on my shit list.

An EII told me that I actually love hierarchies and power struggles but dislike not being at the top and that if I was a Delta I could tolerate being a subordinate or wouldn't accuse people of trying to dominate me. If that was true, wouldn't it be fun and easy to me instead of feeling like fighting for my life? Also wouldn't I join in and go for the top position instead of avoiding them altogether? I simply want to be left alone to do my job in peace.

Had the same problem with MBTI, I would test as ISTJ but the stereotypes of "dutiful minion" never seemed right to me.

Yeah but some people here will just say the predictable thing and claim you're mistyped, that individuality accounts for nothing cause the cult of socionics will burn you at the stake for disliking your any of your quadratic values

Personally I hate each quadra. My male role model, who happened to be my dad, taught me values that were not akin to my quadra. And since they were decent enough values, I never really did stupid ass shit "cuz quadra". Just following values that your quadra dictates is a dumb ass thing to do anyway.

Hopefully you'll get good discussions from posting here cause not everything is either this or that, IMO

[Aster]

Hating your own Quadra sounds kinda -Fi with aristocratic Quadra or smth lol

Think I remember reading on someone’s site the idea of a dark and light beta type. Kinda like seelie and unseelie faeries. Anyway, I think I get it. I think it’s just a basic mindset that a group of people are suppose to share, kinda like a certain language they all understand, but don’t always have to agree on how that language is used

[ContractedCriminalboy]

You can't hate your quadra and the values of it. You can however, hate that you do in fact value your quadra and its values, which is a completely different thing. If you simply feel totally repulsed by your quadra, well guess what? It's not your quadra, you're mistyped. Try a type in the opposite one.

[Tarnished]

Hm... shouldn't take Quadra's value at face value, stereotype

For example, Gamma - the complex of tied hands. https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...Stratiyevskaya

Gammas are famous for their cash-loving, but why? Because Gamma is usually value their freedom of choice, so they seek power, because more power = more choice.

So why they don't seek power the way Beta did? Because when you're in a position of society power, you have less freedom, there are so many rules and laws, people watching over you...

So, seeking money/resource fit them better. Money can give you power, give you more choices and freedom, whithout tying you with the society structure too much.

SEE is call politician, but what these guys really do is leading people to go wild and oppose any existing rule sets lol

[Tarnished]

Well I keep saying over and over again- Game of Thrones is a very Gamma-y show - not Beta. Either the author/creator was Gamma ILI himself or he was an Alpha ILE showing how much he himself hated a Gamma world, as he himself loathed the evil characters as well/the society that enables those kind of things, and ILEs can be worldly about how people really are that way....

There wasn't much 'Merry' about it really...

Not wanting to be a slave or a subordinate I think is a universal thing - not type related. Who wants to be thought of as a bottom of the barrel plebian? Even people who really are like that- tend to think that they are serving a 'Higher Power' and they will be rewarded in another life as a top dawg in Heaven- so their happiness with it doesn't feel that genuine to me. Many people who work in minimum wage jobs- do feel dead inside and tend to be angry/dead and annoyed at their life status. They don't exactly look cherry to be there- unless it's really temporary and they were able to move up soon etc.

And I doubt most people would enjoy what Cercei does etc unless they were unhealthy or fucked up. I do think a lot of Delta does that Te virtue signal thing a lot though... and if that sort of thing annoys you too much then you probably are Beta. But just because a person loathes Te's insitutional virtue signaling- doesn't mean that they enjoy ripping the eyelashes off toddlers either. It's probably very common for a SLE to be arrested for doing something like that lol - but it doesn't make all SLEs bad/or the entire people in the quarda bad people.

Yes, GoT is Gamma (plus Beta), and the author is probably ILI. I don't think someone would put that much effort into something they hate lol. But ILE can be interest in GoT the way I 'm interest in ILE's video game design.

Compare to it, Berserk is Beta. Both having a very medieval-cruel theme, where everyone die in the most brutal ways. But Berserk focus more on Ti Ni theme, like what is the position of mankind in the world, fate and destiny blah blah, and also, an anti religion theme with Beta style.

When GoT focus more on the interaction between people (Fi), how they love, hate each other, how they plot again each others (Te?), How everyone have their own motives and dream (again, Fi), and everything happens in a big scale (Ni). It has a wide range of different people and their pesonalities, and doesn't focus much on an ultimate goal like Beta's.

(Also everyone can die, even in the most meaningless way is something belong to ILI's Ni negative pov)

[Averroes]

I don’t generally even though I have left wing sympathies. Gammas are good at being rich and successful without being obnoxious or pretending anyone can achieve what they have

[Stray Cat]

You can't hate your quadra and the values of it. You can however, hate that you do in fact value your quadra and its values, which is a completely different thing. If you simply feel totally repulsed by your quadra, well guess what? It's not your quadra, you're mistyped. Try a type in the opposite one.

LOL

[ContractedCriminalboy]

LOL

LMAO

[EUDAEMONIUM]

Feeling at odds with the values of "your" quadra is a sign of a mistype. You can, however, feel at odds with the negative stereotypes about your quadra.

[Stray Cat]

LMAO

At least that was your own ass and not someone else's

[ContractedCriminalboy]

At least that was your own ass and not someone else's

ROFL

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

People are often not friends with people in their quadra. Friendly perhaps, but not necessarily friends. If that helps.

All of my closest friends end up being other gammas.

EDIT:
Not intentionally. I don't base my relationships on Socionics things.

[WVBRY]

@BudgieEnthusiast

https://socioniks.net/en/basicknowledge/#podtyp

[Bethanyclaire]

All of my closest friends end up being other gammas.

EDIT:
Not intentionally. I don't base my relationships on Socionics things.

Yeah I think people can be friends with any type. But my longest friendships have been with fellow IPs. That’s not to say they’ll last forever. Also, I think I will always always have IEE friends. To me, they are dual like in the way they elevate my mood. I do appreciate my convos with Betas, and I can’t picture my life in the future without some Beta mates but right now my friends are ILE, SEI and 2 x IEE. I don’t think I’d swap any of them for a Beta. If they leave my life at some point there may be more room for a Beta

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

Yeah I think people can be friends with any type. But my longest friendships have been with fellow IPs. That’s not to say they’ll last forever. Also, I think I will always always have IEE friends. To me, they are dual like in the way they elevate my mood. I do appreciate my convos with Betas, and I can’t picture my life in the future without some Beta mates but right now my friends are ILE, SEI and 2 x IEE. I don’t think I’d swap any of them for a Beta. If they leave my life at some point there may be more room for a Beta

IEE? Was that a typo, supposed to be REE? Jk, kek, corny joke because of Ne PoLR. I have nothing against IEEs, or any type as a whole. I often can't stand Betas because of how image oriented and aristocratic they tend to be, though. Like this fucking cunt right here...



"Hi, I'm a princess whose parents famously did some whateverthefuck," etc etc etc a bunch of ridiculous crap that only serves to reveal issues with identifying what really matters in life. Beta aristocracy bullshit that makes me roll my eyes. Stuff that the majority of people refer to as "status," which I refer to as superficiality and idiocy.

but if they're not like that, then sure. I agree with you. There are some cool as fuck betas out there. Eud is one. <3

My closest friends were an ILI and an LIE. The closest after that is an SLE. I absolutely adore him - which, some have made references to hypothetical romantic scenarios about, and no, I see him in a brotherly way and that thought makes me want to vomit. I used to like an LSI (as a friend) from afar, which I later realized was because I used to have a tendency to try to "win over the unwinnable" - something not unique to me, but very typical of anyone who has experienced narcissistic parents. It is a part of seeking out the familiar (what became familiar from our upbringing), which all humans do unconsciously unless they go through therapeutic processes for this like treated childhood abuse victims do. It made me attracted to very "kuudere" seeming types who demonstrated 0 interest in me, were aloof, etc. Ultimately, this ended up being someone I couldn't stand once that part of me was healed. I learned something typology related from that, though. I suspect that ESI's may actually be more open-minded, less Ne PoLR-esque, than LSI's are, when it comes to human beings. There is a type description that states ESIs may see their quickness to judge as hypocrisy, thus striving not to be that way and trying to be accepting, open-minded, etc. That supports my suspicion as well. The reason I think this happens is that ESIs are more likely to be open-minded for value based reasons, whereas LSIs are just...rigid, with not much of anything to break them out of that black and white way of thinking. Rather than value based Fi, they have rigid and categorical Ti. So, funny enough, the LSI can actually be more black and white, judgmental, etc about people than the ESI is, even. Logical types are less AGREEABLE than Ethical types, and that is what it ultimately boils down to. Fi/Agreeableness = more willingness to be open-minded about others.

[Bethanyclaire]

Maybe we can judge them a bit harshly too. You might feel a kinship with them and expect too much from them. They remind you of yourself on an instinctive level, you respect them a lot so feel extra disappointed when they disappoint you. I think sometimes the friendship progresses too quickly and it feels too pressured for at least one person.

[AWellArmedCat]

I'm not sure to what extent you can "hate" your own quadra, but I can see feeling some level of identification with another quadra given certain life circumstances. My aunt is absolutely SLI for example, but she was really close with her ILI dad and seems to have inherited quite a few Gamma values. I think if you didn't know her well you could very easily mistype her into Gamma, but on closer inspection it's not too hard to realize she's absolutely Si-base despite her liking to surround herself with Ni ego types (other than EIEs who she pretty consistently detests lol)

Sort of unrelated, but I find it funny that at her job she is actually supervising an LIE right now

[ouronis]

I find that there is something like a genotype/phenotype relation in Quadra placement. Generally, descriptions of Quadra are written in places, times, or by minds that skew what is written to one "phenotype", or expression, of the underlying genotype, which is quadra. Presumably then, Quadra itself is a set of values that cause an expression given some environment and is not the expression themselves. So whereas one beta may abhor violence and another may constantly willingly engage in it, only the personality-based (there are also environmental/"genetic interference"-based/etc, but these woule not be quadra) root cause of both of those attitudes is the shared quadral value.