Good relationships that sucked, horrible ones that were cool and why

[Stray Cat]

Which traditionally "good" ITRs have you been in that sucked and why do you believe they sucked?

IMO, activity relations sucks. Why? Their lead function is their main approach to life. It also makes them of the rational temperament as opposed to my irrational temperament

Which traditionally horrible ITRs have you been in that were cool and why were they cool?

For me, semidual was cool and maybe better than mirage. They are both similar to my dual but I really dig my semiduals lead function

Your replies may be different including which ITRs you actually consider good or horrible

[Tallmo]

Duality often sucks. Listening to ILE going on and on about their stuff is not that interesting. Duality can be good, as we all know, but it's complicated. Do you really want to dualize and how much of yourself are you giving up.

[Stray Cat]

Duality often sucks. Listening to ILE going on and on about their stuff is not that interesting. Duality can be good, as we all know, but it's complicated. Do you really want to dualize and how much of yourself are you giving up.

I don't know you at all but your replies read like a Ti-ego from alpha quadra.

I do believe it's possible for a person to psychologically dualize on their own.

[Bethanyclaire]

For friends: Conflictor and kindred have good potential, if you can avoid things going wrong.

[The Banana King]

Duality often sucks. Listening to ILE going on and on about their stuff is not that interesting. Duality can be good, as we all know, but it's complicated. Do you really want to dualize and how much of yourself are you giving up.

I always get the feeling after talking for a while that SEIs just nod along/smile/laugh without actually listening to most of what I say. Probs just Te-polr or something lol. I might ask them a question to catch them in the act and have a laugh about it.
I think perhaps the "supply" of the suggestive function reaches a critical mass after a while and it needs to cool off or process the stuff before wanting to receive more info. The difference with the mobilizing is that it doesn't really produce irritation in excess, just a sort of "input blockage".
To be fair, I become indifferent to Si after all my Si related needs are met. Then I crave Fe until I get (literally) hungry for Si again On another thought, SEI often find Si needs in me that I never knew I had lol. And I'm always happy to get free snacks/massage/etc.

Another problem with the suggestive is that often people distrust the info provided by others, in other words, ILE may be conservative in Si matters, SEI may be conservative in Ne matters, etc. The normally accepted definition of the Suggestive "you literally can't get enough of it" might be a bit exaggerated lol

[Tallmo]

I always get the feeling after talking for a while that SEIs just nod along/smile/laugh without actually listening to most of what I say. Probs just Te-polr or something lol. I might ask them a question to catch them in the act and have a laugh about it.
I think perhaps the "supply" of the suggestive function reaches a critical mass after a while and it needs to cool off or process the stuff before wanting to receive more info. The difference with the mobilizing is that it doesn't really produce irritation in excess, just a sort of "input blockage".
To be fair, I become indifferent to Si after all my Si related needs are met. Then I crave Fe until I get (literally) hungry for Si again On another thought, SEI often find Si needs in me that I never knew I had lol. And I'm always happy to get free snacks/massage/etc.

Another problem with the suggestive is that often people distrust the info provided by others, in other words, ILE may be conservative in Si matters, SEI may be conservative in Ne matters, etc. The normally accepted definition of the Suggestive "you literally can't get enough of it" might be a bit exaggerated lol

Yes, the Ne is a problem. I can't follow everything and I get bored and feel inferior. But it's different when people dualize and adjust to each other, then something seems to happen. Another thing is that Si is mostly invisible, only on the inside, so I don't really provide anything to the discussion. But these sensations go on all the time, just like Ne.

It's better if the ILE doesn't exaggerate the Ne. Just be a normal person and don't use the Ne as something to show off. It will still create attraction, actually even more. I think that's when dual relations can happen.

When communicating with another SEI it's often easier to relate, both with the base and the inferior suggestive, because we don't dominate each other but are more equal.

EDIT: I don't think Si is so much about fulfilling needs in ILE (that's more a Socionics rumor), but maybe a general mode of being, a sensitivity, taking in things slowly etc. I've noticed that ILE react positively to this way of being that SEIs radiate.

[Tallmo]

I don't know you at all but your replies read like a Ti-ego from alpha quadra.

I do believe it's possible for a person to psychologically dualize on their own.

I'm Ti-mobilizing from Alpha quadra

Maybe it's possible to dualize on their own, but probably pretty hard and rare. A healthy connection to the suggestive is more common.

[Adam Strange]

My mother was a very mentally unhealthy Kindred LSE and my experience with her made me immediately hate and want to eliminate every LSE that I subsequently met. It took years before I could allow myself to get close enough to an LSE so I could get to know them as people, rather than as projections, and you know what? They are pretty OK people.

Mentally unhealthy people are not representative of their type, and if they are too far gone, are actually very difficult to type.

[Stray Cat]

I always get the feeling after talking for a while that SEIs just nod along/smile/laugh without actually listening to most of what I say. Probs just Te-polr or something lol. I might ask them a question to catch them in the act and have a laugh about it.
I think perhaps the "supply" of the suggestive function reaches a critical mass after a while and it needs to cool off or process the stuff before wanting to receive more info. The difference with the mobilizing is that it doesn't really produce irritation in excess, just a sort of "input blockage".
To be fair, I become indifferent to Si after all my Si related needs are met. Then I crave Fe until I get (literally) hungry for Si again On another thought, SEI often find Si needs in me that I never knew I had lol. And I'm always happy to get free snacks/massage/etc.

Another problem with the suggestive is that often people distrust the info provided by others, in other words, ILE may be conservative in Si matters, SEI may be conservative in Ne matters, etc. The normally accepted definition of the Suggestive "you literally can't get enough of it" might be a bit exaggerated lol

Good point. I appreciate the take & opinion.

It's been said, though, that the super ID is childish. If so, how about this analogy? In a classroom, one kid sits up front and is open to hearing the lesson. Perhaps, the kid doesn't always agree with things but is willing to listen & discuss. However, in that same classroom is a class clown sitting in the rear, cracking jokes & making fun of the lesson.

Both kids have the potential to learn but their attitudes differ. This, I believe, indicates the difference between those who are easy to "dualize" with and those who are not

Yes, the Ne is a problem. I can't follow everything and I get bored and feel inferior. But it's different when people dualize and adjust to each other, then something seems to happen. Another thing is that Si is mostly invisible, only on the inside, so I don't really provide anything to the discussion. But these sensations go on all the time, just like Ne.

It's better if the ILE doesn't exaggerate the Ne. Just be a normal person and don't use the Ne as something to show off. It will still create attraction, actually even more. I think that's when dual relations can happen.

When communicating with another SEI it's often easier to relate, both with the base and the inferior suggestive, because we don't dominate each other but are more equal.

EDIT: I don't think Si is so much about fulfilling needs in ILE (that's more a Socionics rumor), but maybe a general mode of being, a sensitivity, taking in things slowly etc. I've noticed that ILE react positively to this way of being that SEIs radiate.

IMO what's interesting is when your dual signals a need for their suggestive. Because the suggestive is 1D (experience based), any suggestive help they get might be filtered through a somewhat subjective lens.

I'm Ti-mobilizing from Alpha quadra

Maybe it's possible to dualize on their own, but probably pretty hard and rare. A healthy connection to the suggestive is more common.

Yeah, I mean, a 1D function would never be a 4D function but there is something to be said about self nurturing. I don't believe in codepending on another person unless one has a disability. It's pretty much taking just enough interest in yourself to salve your Super ID

[Stray Cat]

My mother was a very mentally unhealthy Kindred LSE and my experience with her made me immediately hate and want to eliminate every LSE that I subsequently met. It took years before I could allow myself to get close enough to an LSE so I could get to know them as people, rather than as projections, and you know what? They are pretty OK people.

Mentally unhealthy people are not representative of their type, and if they are too far gone, are actually very difficult to type.

Interesting, good reply.

Yeah, man. IMO, family is a different category. If I ever give a take on ILIs, I do not include my father (who is an ILI). The reason for that is because family dynamics are somewhat insular and unique. We have responsibilities and duties to family members that we didn't completely chose of our own volition It's unlike other folk, whom we can decide to engage with or not

In other words, my dad may have been a typical ILI everywhere else but, with me, his familial duties & responsibilities convinced him to be the best Dad he knew to be rather than being a typical textbook ILI.

[timber]

My mother was a very mentally unhealthy Kindred LSE and my experience with her made me immediately hate and want to eliminate every LSE that I subsequently met. It took years before I could allow myself to get close enough to an LSE so I could get to know them as people, rather than as projections, and you know what? They are pretty OK people.

Mentally unhealthy people are not representative of their type, and if they are too far gone, are actually very difficult to type.

Parents do not change. I came to accept this as I aged into my 30s.

LSE are fairly mld manager types, sometimes that extends into large high budget projects and they are wealthy for it. They are like SLE, with their little "team" of followers who benefit from that beneficent Te.

When they go wrong they can get into all sorts of "bad" behaviour and justify all sorts of failings in themselves.

[crazymaisy]

Mentally unhealty SEE that one is dualized with is .... let's just say the past 5 years have been filled with ups and downs just because he will not eat how I say he should, not pressing it, just saying it once, and then weeks later one minor reminder and boom RED BUTTON forever.

Drinks horrid high gravity beer, buys too much of it, proxy buy it for so many other dumb people, also going to brew places every Sat/Sun to pick up beer, meet others, drink too much.

On and off it goes. So any good times are with me putting up with this shite.

It's not fun. He's way too fat and with problems. He needs to stop drinking and eating so much carbs. Seriously, I am the last person on earth that cares about diets to the nth degree but I am super into KETO eating now and when I started he was OK with it, wanting to do it, left on a business trip and came house with that RED BOTTON press down and seems to be glued with crazy glue.

Long time ago he got rid of a lot of weight. He was not drinking much, and he was nice and all that.

He put on even more weight that before in the past few years. He just seems to want to destroy himself, and every bit of me trying to ignore it or mention it, or yell about it, same result.

He's faithful to me, but I almost do not care about that anymore.

POS wants to make me not have a 30th Anniversary (August 2022).


As for semi-dual: One of my sons is SLE and we have a great time together sometimes, and leave each other alone then, just interesting stuff. This is the kind of relationship I like very much.

I hate sex now for a long time. Sex is too complicating for relationships. I'm a lifetime married person, it's great when it can be with DUAL but when they decide to go off the rails, it's really all on them but ruins everything. ILI can do without sex. Oh man yes. I love that. I mean really love it. I liked it when I could have babies because of it. So what's the point anymore. Right? Right.

SEE melt down every so often. That's not this. He's got symptoms (mental and guts) of needing to eat better and not drink so much. If the light would shine on him, everything could get better. It's up to him and God.

Second idea here though I don't know if my DUAL is just plain weird, but the last week before Christmas he acts like Mr. Scrooge. Grumpy and complaining. He makes holidays, not fun, unless I can ignore him and have many plates spinning for the holiday.

His birthday, and mine, is in July. 1 Year and 8 days older than me. Guess what he's like around his birthday, Mr. Grugy Scrooge, and it bleeds all the way to my birthday.

I love Christmas and my Birthday. F you for making it miserable too often Mr. Dual.

Other than that. Dual's can be great. I'm in the middle of a time with improving and it's like he won't because I am. So it's hard to sludge though it all.

[crazymaisy]

Yes, I am a loyal victim.

I also hate this big space when I type just one line.

So I have to fill it up. But I can't really. Just have hope this'll do it. Preview had it nice, short, no emptiness. Saving just plops it all back.

[Tarnished]

Mentally unhealty SEE that one is dualized with is .... let's just say the past 5 years have been filled with ups and downs just because he will not eat how I say he should, not pressing it, just saying it once, and then weeks later one minor reminder and boom RED BUTTON forever.

Drinks horrid high gravity beer, buys too much of it, proxy buy it for so many other dumb people, also going to brew places every Sat/Sun to pick up beer, meet others, drink too much.

On and off it goes. So any good times are with me putting up with this shite.

It's not fun. He's way too fat and with problems. He needs to stop drinking and eating so much carbs. Seriously, I am the last person on earth that cares about diets to the nth degree but I am super into KETO eating now and when I started he was OK with it, wanting to do it, left on a business trip and came house with that RED BOTTON press down and seems to be glued with crazy glue.

Long time ago he got rid of a lot of weight. He was not drinking much, and he was nice and all that.

He put on even more weight that before in the past few years. He just seems to want to destroy himself, and every bit of me trying to ignore it or mention it, or yell about it, same result.

He's faithful to me, but I almost do not care about that anymore.

POS wants to make me not have a 30th Anniversary (August 2022).


As for semi-dual: One of my sons is SLE and we have a great time together sometimes, and leave each other alone then, just interesting stuff. This is the kind of relationship I like very much.

I hate sex now for a long time. Sex is too complicating for relationships. I'm a lifetime married person, it's great when it can be with DUAL but when they decide to go off the rails, it's really all on them but ruins everything. ILI can do without sex. Oh man yes. I love that. I mean really love it. I liked it when I could have babies because of it. So what's the point anymore. Right? Right.

SEE melt down every so often. That's not this. He's got symptoms (mental and guts) of needing to eat better and not drink so much. If the light would shine on him, everything could get better. It's up to him and God.

Second idea here though I don't know if my DUAL is just plain weird, but the last week before Christmas he acts like Mr. Scrooge. Grumpy and complaining. He makes holidays, not fun, unless I can ignore him and have many plates spinning for the holiday.

His birthday, and mine, is in July. 1 Year and 8 days older than me. Guess what he's like around his birthday, Mr. Grugy Scrooge, and it bleeds all the way to my birthday.

I love Christmas and my Birthday. F you for making it miserable too often Mr. Dual.

Other than that. Dual's can be great. I'm in the middle of a time with improving and it's like he won't because I am. So it's hard to sludge though it all.

Sound like my SEE dad... The different is my ESI mom push even more pressure and he still didn't listen. I've never try to talk with him, so I'm not sure if I could did it better tham my mom did.

But he's old now and begin to care more about his health, because his health is a mess right now and he just can't go through it like when he was younger

[Adam Strange]

Mentally unhealty SEE that one is dualized with is .... let's just say the past 5 years have been filled with ups and downs just because he will not eat how I say he should, not pressing it, just saying it once, and then weeks later one minor reminder and boom RED BUTTON forever.

Drinks horrid high gravity beer, buys too much of it, proxy buy it for so many other dumb people, also going to brew places every Sat/Sun to pick up beer, meet others, drink too much.

On and off it goes. So any good times are with me putting up with this shite.

It's not fun. He's way too fat and with problems. He needs to stop drinking and eating so much carbs. Seriously, I am the last person on earth that cares about diets to the nth degree but I am super into KETO eating now and when I started he was OK with it, wanting to do it, left on a business trip and came house with that RED BOTTON press down and seems to be glued with crazy glue.

Long time ago he got rid of a lot of weight. He was not drinking much, and he was nice and all that.

He put on even more weight that before in the past few years. He just seems to want to destroy himself, and every bit of me trying to ignore it or mention it, or yell about it, same result.

He's faithful to me, but I almost do not care about that anymore.

POS wants to make me not have a 30th Anniversary (August 2022).


As for semi-dual: One of my sons is SLE and we have a great time together sometimes, and leave each other alone then, just interesting stuff. This is the kind of relationship I like very much.

I hate sex now for a long time. Sex is too complicating for relationships. I'm a lifetime married person, it's great when it can be with DUAL but when they decide to go off the rails, it's really all on them but ruins everything. ILI can do without sex. Oh man yes. I love that. I mean really love it. I liked it when I could have babies because of it. So what's the point anymore. Right? Right.

SEE melt down every so often. That's not this. He's got symptoms (mental and guts) of needing to eat better and not drink so much. If the light would shine on him, everything could get better. It's up to him and God.

Second idea here though I don't know if my DUAL is just plain weird, but the last week before Christmas he acts like Mr. Scrooge. Grumpy and complaining. He makes holidays, not fun, unless I can ignore him and have many plates spinning for the holiday.

His birthday, and mine, is in July. 1 Year and 8 days older than me. Guess what he's like around his birthday, Mr. Grugy Scrooge, and it bleeds all the way to my birthday.

I love Christmas and my Birthday. F you for making it miserable too often Mr. Dual.

Other than that. Dual's can be great. I'm in the middle of a time with improving and it's like he won't because I am. So it's hard to sludge though it all.

@crazymaisy, it sounds like you have a hard road to travel.

I wish you strength and the best of luck.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Eh I agree with Northstar that you are probably mistyped because identical quadra relationships are rarely ever horrible to me. They are often not good or ideal or romantic sure- but I agree with mu4 that usually even if you don't like a dual or feel romantic twu wuv feelings - they at least tend to not piss you off and just tend to be neutral or boring.

If Betas are annoying you that much, you are probably not a beta. Horrible is horrible and good is good. The world isn't upside down like that.

[Stray Cat]

Wtf are you going on about? People annoy me, in general, regardless of quadra. Your tribalism doesn't impress me. The fact you've decided to turn the tables and focus the thread on me is a boring as shit idea.

Feel free to let us know your opinion & personal experience. You're not my psychiatrist and I'm not paying you to be. Good luck

[Kindness]

Eh I agree with Northstar that you are probably mistyped because identical quadra relationships are rarely ever horrible to me. They are often not good or ideal or romantic sure- but I agree with mu4 that usually even if you don't like a dual or feel romantic twu wuv feelings - they at least tend to not piss you off and just tend to be neutral or boring.

I'll throw my hat into the ring here and say that my friendship with old Mirror EII college roommate was fuckin' awful for about two years - icy, prickly, mutually offensive, maybe some homicidal thoughts on my end. We couldn't carry a conversation for shit without the third roommate (IEI) there. turns out we were both dealing with baggage from our upbringings and likely stepping all over each other's POLRs. we're really good friends now though, although we rarely talk outside of the groupchat.

quadral complexes esp with Beta and Delta imo can come with a great deal of hypocrisy. Delta urge to instruct doesn't fly well when it's given without consideration for the other person's mode of operation. doesn't help my dad is probably EII and tries to correct me literally every chance he gets so i'm sensitized to that.

Its funny, that third roommate is Contrary to me, and Contrary relations are specifically not recommended to have a third person in the mix. yet that third person (EII up there)'s presence is actually what stabilized the group. IEI and me on our own would often get into intense, sometimes turbulent discussions. We both sometimes felt pressured by the other (Victim can be pressured by me breathing, Pseudo-Caregiver maybe going along too much with others' vulnerability), meanwhile EII was totally resistant to IEI's pressure so that gave me something to reference.

i was insecure for a while that IEI and EII got along better with each other and would leave me as a third wheel -- Certainly, their surface level interactions (going out on the town, shopping, chatting idly) were more frequent and more friendly, per Quasi-Idential relations, which had me fooled for a bit. they've never fought and maybe gotten short with each other twice in the four years we lived together. but when it comes to deep personal bonds and discussion, my relationships with them individually were the deepest even from the beginning.

it's probably because all three ITR are equally crappy that we've managed to stay as a unit, lol. not only that but there is a balance of distance - Mirror is close, Quasi-Identical is distant, Contrary swings between the two. our individual relationships do follow ITR pretty closely, we've just learned to stay on the positive/tolerable side of them and once we get sick of one we easily get to access the other. tbh i am a little worried that the IEI is not getting what she needs but EII and me are pretty ok with yielding to her desires when she states them so i'm not that worried.


Maybe this should be a new triad model for Contrary relations lol, stick a Mirror to one and Quasi-Identical to the other type in there. i also think all being NF and power-equal helped.

[PinKDiGiT18]

My Benefactor (ILI-Te) mom is the best friend I have ever had; there is nobody else I trust as much and I do not attribute it solely to our mother-daughter relationship as I have seen mom-daughter relationships with “better” intertypes that have no openness, warmth, or trust. I count myself blessed for that.

I have had several good long-term connections with my Contraries EIEs. They’re a cool bunch, when healthy.

Because of my subtype, I had expected to get along better with my Beneficiaries SEIs than I do. At a distance, we work just fine; but when we get too close, I feel like I overstep invisible boundaries that are never delineated for me.

[crazymaisy]

My SEE hubby has toned down the last few days. End of the year puts the fear of God in him I guess. But he's still got a-ways to go to save himself. It's hard, but I have to not say things when I want to. Let him just fly or stall on his own. He easily changes for the worst to hit bottom again and again. Repeating patterns getting closer and closer.

He's not drinking beer now, just his snotty bourbon a bit. I say that because it's fairly expensive, a specific hard to get brand, that is weak to me. He says I don't know what good bourbon is. Huh.

I like whiskey/bourbon, just hardly ever drink anything. I've practically been a teetotaler all along. I prefer my mind over an altered mind. Keeping my opinion on this to myself is very important for my sanity now. blah.

[Sol]

It's not hard to make relations with good IR as bad. Just do not care enough about each other, to feel good for both. Good IR is _one of significant factors_ which helps to get good relations, a close friendship. Good relations do not appear and are supported by themselves - it's the work of two people. Hard and long work. Appears and exists much by itself - a sympathy, some irrational trust. But relations is more. For good relations is important to accept interests (ideally - all mind contents) of other human same important as your own, to share the life with him, and to trust and allow him doing same for you.

To get as good relations in bad IR is doubtful as rather hard. Surfacely good - possibly. To be good close friends - doubtful. Even if possible on practice. Alike to jump 10 km on one leg - it's not possible, but is too hard and so not many ones do so. People prefer to work on both legs. And when to be good friends is too hard - they do not become, stay in farther personal interaction or switch in relations with easier people.

So to find bad relations in good IR - easy. There were even marriages of duals which after years has departed. Nothing special in bad relations of people.
Good relations in bad IR? In case you are about good close friendship - good luck to find ones. Mb there were dudes who has jumped 10 km on a single leg, but certainly not so many to take this as meaningful practice. It's rather possibly to find people with long and successful cooperation with bad IR, to be "cool" pals, to look as "decent" pair, but not good friends or pair with good deep love. Jung's type is too significant factor to oppose this. The more expressed Jung types are in people - the more IR effects will influence. Mb with special psyche practice which much changes minds and where life conditions are not normal to find such examples is more possible - it's not about common life, anyway.

P.S. When you see too strange according to types theory basics - a good chance types are other than you think. Mistakes in types are often.
As an example. I know a dude who thinks his type as LSE and his wife type as EIE. He says that is satisfied by the marriage. Besides he may embellish his situation and I know him not good to check what is there indeed, but I'm sure his type is not LSE but can be LSI or other. If it's LSI and EIE pair - this would explain the case. I saw his posts on a forum and said doubts in his LSE, as what he posted was too alien to me and significantly against types theory - then in our talking he mentioned what thinks about his wife's type.