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Thread: Best careers for SEE/ESFp

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    Xima's Avatar
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    Default Best careers for SEE/ESFp

    I'm currently a Project Manager in technical communication and I like every aspect of this position... except writing technical documents!

    In your experience, what are the best career paths for SEEs?

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    Sales person.

    Musician or singer.

    Running a country, as per Trump and Mussolini, doesn't seem to work out too well for SEEs.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 12-02-2021 at 04:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xima View Post
    I'm currently a Project Manager in technical communication and I like every aspect of this position... except writing technical documents!

    In your experience, what are the best career paths for SEEs?
    I wouldn't recommend on basing your personality to achieve goals for your careers. Nevertheless, I think that any jobs that include communication and political arrangement would be a good career, or being a director of capitalistic community.
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    Video journalist

    That's based on my sample of 1 ESFp who I thought was great at selecting talent and visually attractive locations for their videos/documentaries, and not only that but successfully coordinating a group of people with a wide range of personalities (some who take a lot of convincing to get moving )

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    Depend on your subtype and many diferent things

    Streamer.

    SEE, just like EIE, are natural performers and can have a huge influence over a large crowd of people.

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    Actor, performer, artist, youtuber, entertainer, sales, retail, anything that involves managing people in one way or another, and anything related to the media and communications.

    I speak to everyone in the same way, whether he is the garbage man or the president of the university.

    ― Albert Einstein

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    I suggest you try this test:
    https://www.mynextmove.org/explore/ip

    And then put the result (the top 1, 2, or 3 options - play with various combinations and perhaps in different orders) into this:
    https://www.onetonline.org/explore/i.../Enterprising/

    The Job Zone scores (1 to 5) emphasize how preparation is needed.

    But the best option may be something similar to what you are already doing.

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    Sales is one that comes immediately to mind.
    The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.

    The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".

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    Prostitution

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northstar View Post
    Prostitution
    On the face of it, it seems like a great idea.

    ”Have sex, get money.”

    But it somehow reminds me of the South Park elves’ plan to get rich by stealing underpants. There is something missing from this plan….

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    Best career for SEE IMO would be as a professional athlete in a team sport. It’s what they’re naturally interested and proficient in anyways. Checks all their boxes: being active, being competitive, being social…they have a flair for trash talking in a, dare I say, “friendly” way. They wear their heart on their sleeve and would bend over backwards to take one for the team, or to come to the defence of a teammate. Their creative Fi also makes them “good sports” in that they are totally capable of slugging it out with another enforcer in an NHL game to please the crowd, and then going out for a beer with their opponent after the game. Alternatively, I also think they’d make excellent gym teachers or professional sports coaches. They are good at managing other people’s drama while sincerely caring, and are adept at smoothing out personality differences in the locker room. They like to lead, they like to talk, they like to win. As a coach they would be “all in” emotionally, and would be the kind of coach players would bend over backwards to please, since their creative Fi would have enabled them to put in the necessary effort to forge unique and authentic relationships with every player on a personal level.

    Another job I can see them being good at is something like managing a golf course and/or its grounds. They’d be excellent at all the small talk with the sports clientele, and their strong sensing would make them pretty anal about achieving top results in the course’s performance/maintenance. They’d also be great at managing the different personalities of the employees.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Sales person.

    Musician or singer.

    Running a country, as per Trump and Mussolini, doesn't seem to work out too well for SEEs.
    Mussolini isn't SLE?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CptLandhawk View Post
    Mussolini isn't SLE?
    I think that Mussolini was a Trump clone, or vice-versa. He didn't seem to excel at the kind of Se (take over territory by force) supported by Ti (we need this many troops, this much ammunition, this is reality, this isn't bullshit) that an SLE would have.

    His message seemed to be more like "Hey, we can be a great country again if I can wear this cool outfit and be constantly on stage." Not too far from The Former Guy, really.

    SEEs are great persuaders. They will up-sell you until your wallet is empty, and they'll make you feel good about it. It's an amazing skill, actually. It's the reason they usually prefer to work on commission; it's because they are great at sales.
    The only danger that a sales job can have for an SEE, though, is if the items they are selling fall out of demand. SEEs can derive their sense of self-worth by how much money they are bringing in, and if that money dries up for any reason, the SEE can be driven to get money in unconventional ways. Which is why they need an ILI early warning system.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 08-01-2022 at 06:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I think that Mussolini was a Trump clone, or vice-versa. He didn't seem to excel at the kind of Se (take over territory by force) supported by Ti (we need this many troops, this much ammunition, this is reality, this isn't bullshit) that an SLE would have.

    His message seemed to be more like "Hey, we can be a great country again if I can wear this cool outfit and be constantly on stage." Not too far from The Former Guy, really.

    SEEs are great persuaders. They will up-sell you until your wallet is empty, and they'll make you feel good about it. It's an amazing skill, actually.
    I see


    Same as Trump didn't come in to reform anything. He was on Twitter and heard a crowd of loudmouths and became what they wanted. Their voice. He can't finish a sentence without saying "the people" either

    Cyrus the Great also SEE had an interesting way of conquering. He's take over by force (Se) then told the people they can keep their religious practices on his land keeping them on his side (Fi)

    As long as they paid him his tax (Te)

    Got pretty far with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CptLandhawk View Post
    I see


    Same as Trump didn't come in to reform anything. He was on Twitter and heard a crowd of loudmouths and became what they wanted. Their voice. He can't finish a sentence without saying "the people" either

    Cyrus the Great also SEE had an interesting way of conquering. He's take over by force (Se) then told the people they can keep their religious practices on his land keeping them on his side (Fi)

    As long as they paid him his tax (Te)

    Got pretty far with it.

    Very cool about Cyrus the Great.

    When I think of Trump, I think "extremely unhealthy narcissist" first, and "SEE" about third or fourth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Very cool about Cyrus the Great.

    When I think of Trump, I think "extremely unhealthy narcissist" first, and "SEE" about third or fourth.
    I get it lol

    Cyrus is the only major SEE I can think of that didn't become a beast that ate it's own flesh

    Julius Ceasar
    Mussolini
    Trump
    Tony Montana (I believe)

    The common denominator here is the megalomania...the will to conquer trumping (no pun intended) the Fi

    Cyrus built relationships. Bridges that kept him on a high platform. I've studied him closely, even the references Bible made of him. The Book of Daniel illustrates him as an Eagle that snatched the sapling from a large tree and planted it somewhere else...then it grew bigger than the other tree. Illustrating how he built the ruins of Israel back up

    Gulenko describes the SEE as a destroyer of systems. A harbinger of chaos. In the cases of any that was true. The lies and deciet masking the violence and evil.Cyrus didn't mask anything. He was forceful as he needed to be, but emphasized his selling point "Conquest through Liberation". No pretense, or false airs, but a campaign built on intent. True will, rather than image. Reinforced by the relationships and other things he contributed so that his rule would prosper.

    In a world like this one this is the harder and longer road. I think it's worth it though. I can't speak for other SEE but my Se although great...is not my biggest gift to the world or myself. It's the Fi that gives it direction and forms the rough and ugly clay that can be my Se into a Vase. Something to admire. Something of value. Something that can propel to heights I thought I needed strength to achieve...with the ironic but gracious bonus of becoming truly strong

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    I think Alexander the great, if he did exist, was SEE too. This guy was basically "I'm a conquoror for fun" (Alexander endeavored to reach the "ends of the world and the Great Outer Sea"). And he died by partying too much. Also "cutting the gordian knot" seem Ti polr.

    In ancient/medieval time, morale is sometime even more important than strategic, and boosting morale seem like something SEE good at.
    Last edited by Renna; 08-02-2022 at 03:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CptLandhawk View Post
    Gulenko describes the SEE as a destroyer of systems. A harbinger of chaos.
    Sound cool as fuck

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    My SEE dad is a great coach. Whatever travel team or school team he's coached has become really dedicated and talented within a couple years. His dream is to be an athletic director, which I think he would excel at. But for financial reasons, he's stuck being a supply chain analyst, a job which he's competent at but loathes. (Well, he's not "stuck" in the sense that he has no choice. If he made sacrifices like not paying my college tuition or not paying for my sisters to attend a private Christian high school, then he could afford to accept the lower salary of local athletic director positions.) Before he entered the civilian sector of work, he was an aerospace engineer. He enjoyed the job itself but not the required deployments.

    (But disclaimer: I'm not entirely sure that he's SEE. I can't confidently type others for the life of me.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post

    When I think of Trump, I think "extremely unhealthy narcissist" first, and "SEE" about third or fourth.
    Do you think Trump is SEE? I think he is an unfortunately spoiled—and thus entitled and self-aggrandizing—ILE. He thinks he’s very charming and that that charm will always pull him through. However, the only elements that have actually EVER pulled him through to the point where he successfully averts repudiation (and thus subsequently believes he deserves his respect), are his creative Ti, his family money, and its resulting corporate status. I don’t see any kind of F whatsoever in his two main functions.

    His hair alone… Perhaps I’m biased, but IMO A SEE would be too tough, secure and authentic in their masculinity to try so desperately to artificially, and thus superficially, believe he’s fooling anyone. Definition of Suggestive Si by Silke: “the individual usually emphasizes physical attractiveness as means of achieving social validation and acceptance, and improving their mating potential”. I think the combover is too artificially desperate… and that a SEE would alternatively rather just win people over with their personality, instead of relying on such an obviously superficial and vain crutch.

    IMO his odd and vulgar, overly sexualized comments about women on Access Hollywood seem embarrassingly try-hard and Role Se… he thinks that that’s how “tough guy Don Juans” SHOULD talk. However something is obviously missing/doesn’t authentically compute! Trump on Access Hollywood about a certain publicist: “I better use some TicTac‘s just in case I start kissing her. You know, I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab ‘em by the pussy. You can do anything.” As someone who is mobilizing Se seeking, I just don’t buy Trump’s desperate and masculinity-seeking comments as authentic. Rather than feeling threatened as a woman by them, I just feel cringingly/awkwardly embarrassed for both him and his wife! Comon….somethings obviously not right there!
    Last edited by ENJoymENT; 08-04-2022 at 05:42 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CptLandhawk View Post
    I get it lol

    Cyrus is the only major SEE I can think of that didn't become a beast that ate it's own flesh

    Julius Ceasar
    Mussolini
    Trump
    Tony Montana (I believe)

    The common denominator here is the megalomania...the will to conquer trumping (no pun intended) the Fi

    Cyrus built relationships. Bridges that kept him on a high platform. I've studied him closely, even the references Bible made of him. The Book of Daniel illustrates him as an Eagle that snatched the sapling from a large tree and planted it somewhere else...then it grew bigger than the other tree. Illustrating how he built the ruins of Israel back up

    Gulenko describes the SEE as a destroyer of systems. A harbinger of chaos. In the cases of any that was true. The lies and deciet masking the violence and evil.Cyrus didn't mask anything. He was forceful as he needed to be, but emphasized his selling point "Conquest through Liberation". No pretense, or false airs, but a campaign built on intent. True will, rather than image. Reinforced by the relationships and other things he contributed so that his rule would prosper.

    In a world like this one this is the harder and longer road. I think it's worth it though. I can't speak for other SEE but my Se although great...is not my biggest gift to the world or myself. It's the Fi that gives it direction and forms the rough and ugly clay that can be my Se into a Vase. Something to admire. Something of value. Something that can propel to heights I thought I needed strength to achieve...with the ironic but gracious bonus of becoming truly strong
    Tony Montana (I believe)
    Haha yea…Tony Montana yes I agree.


    Gulenko describes the SEE as a destroyer of systems. A harbinger of chaos.
    I don’t believe that SEEs intentionally and/or covertly set out with a grand plan to destroy established systems. I think that if and when such destruction does coincidentally occur, that its origin is based in some personal Fi motivation or intent. For instance—only if they find themselves in too deep, with no other alternative, or to avoid harming others—then as a last ditch effort, they may take the fall and/or choose to self destruct (a la Tony Montana LOL). In other words, I think they are most heavily ruled by their Fi when they revolt and/or self sabotage. It’s personal, and “emotions” related.

    In contrast, I believe that ILE and LII hold a Ti-based serious skepticism and disdain towards conforming with established systems. I can see either of THESE two types intentionally and surreptitiously taking on systems as a form of duel, with the inner calm and awareness of the bigger picture in mind to ultimately destroy the systems as part of an intentional Ti agenda.

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    SEE can't help but to innately implode themselves and other things involved in every so often throughout their lives. It's not on purpose. They are just wired to be that way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazymaisy View Post
    SEE can't help but to innately implode themselves and other things involved in every so often throughout their lives. It's not on purpose. They are just wired to be that way.
    I’ve noticed that as well. What do you think the reason for this could be?
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    Quote Originally Posted by roger557 View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysteryofdungeon View Post
    I’ve noticed that as well. What do you think the reason for this could be?
    In my experience, they do it when some personal Fi value or code has been violated. They will then sort of turn into the Incredible Hulk and assert their Se in an attempt to right someone else’s clueless overstep—which they inflate into having the status of a serious societal offence. Their lack of Ni foresight prevents them from seeing the big picture in the moment; thus there is no “voice of reason” to accurately predict the projected negative outcomes to them as a caution to reel them back in.

    An example of this is when a SEE I am close to witnessed a friend being attacked in a fight at a bar. The bouncers ejected the lot of them, so SEE followed the group outside to look out for his friend. The fight resumed outside the entrance, and it was 4-on-1 so of course SEE jumped in. The bouncers came outside to break up the fight again and banned the entire group from re-entry, however SEE noticed 2 of the initial aggressors being let back into the bar by their friends through a side door. So then he tried to talk his way back in, as well as to get in through the side exit door to go after them. Because the instigators of the fight violated his “code of fighting fair” when they went 4 against one, he became livid and was determined to give them an earful to shame them, as well as to physically retaliate to “teach them a lesson” on the rules of fighting fair. When he couldn’t talk his way back in, he ended up punching his fist through the thick glass of the main door to open it from the inside—the kind that has wire mesh squares embedded within the glass. He cut his forearm really badly and had to go to the hospital. He also ended up having to pay for the bar’s replacement door, and was banned from the club for 3 months. Therefore his lack of Ni foresight prevented him from seeing the obvious negative consequences of his plan, so that he could have then replaced that primitive plan with a more feasible Te-based one. Thus his deficient Ni/Te ultimately sabotaged his attempt to physically assert through Se, his Fi goal of calling out the people who violated his fair fight code of honour. In fact everybody ended up knowing what he did, and the only person who was shamed was himself. However in his own mind, he was doing it all to stand up for someone else.

    The havoc SEEs can reek is often not maliciously intended, nor is it usually ever part of some grand scheme to overthrow established systems. Their actions are generally motivated by a desire to stand up for someone or to uphold some moral rule or code. Their motives are personal, and the ensuing consequences extend only to affect a narrow sphere of people in their own life. This is in contrast to someone like the Unabomber, who intentionally tries to dismantle established societal systems as part of some political anti-conformity agenda.
    Last edited by ENJoymENT; 08-04-2022 at 05:08 PM.

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    I've had moments like this as a kid, and a young adult as well. It usually is the case that a value is crossed. I've learned to slow down and really assess wether or not things are as I see them. If I do have to retaliate I make sure I do it so that It doesn't backfire.

    As far as retaliation goes I'm not of the belief that people who go out of their way to be terrible have the luxury of appealing to sympathy or even fairness at that point, since they themselves didn't take these into account when they did what they did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ENJoymENT View Post
    In my experience, they do it when some personal Fi value or code has been violated. They will then sort of turn into the Incredible Hulk and assert their Se in an attempt to right someone else’s clueless overstep—which they inflate into having the status of a serious societal offence. Their lack of Ni foresight prevents them from seeing the big picture in the moment; thus there is no “voice of reason” to accurately predict the projected negative outcomes to them as a caution to reel them back in.

    An example of this is when a SEE I am close to witnessed a friend being attacked in a fight at a bar. The bouncers ejected the lot of them, so SEE followed the group outside to look out for his friend. The fight resumed outside the entrance, and it was 4-on-1 so of course SEE jumped in. The bouncers came outside to break up the fight again and banned the entire group from re-entry, however SEE noticed 2 of the initial aggressors being let back into the bar by their friends through a side door. So then he tried to talk his way back in, as well as to get in through the side exit door to go after them. Because the instigators of the fight violated his “code of fighting fair” when they went 4 against one, he became livid and was determined to give them an earful to shame them, as well as to physically retaliate to “teach them a lesson” on the rules of fighting fair. When he couldn’t talk his way back in, he ended up punching his fist through the thick glass of the main door to open it from the inside—the kind that has wire mesh squares embedded within the glass. He cut his forearm really badly and had to go to the hospital. He also ended up having to pay for the bar’s replacement door, and was banned from the club for 3 months. Therefore his lack of Ni foresight prevented him from seeing the obvious negative consequences of his plan, so that he could have then replaced that primitive plan with a more feasible Te-based one. Thus his deficient Ni/Te ultimately sabotaged his attempt to physically assert through Se, his Fi goal of calling out the people who violated his fair fight code of honour. In fact everybody ended up knowing what he did, and the only person who was shamed was himself. However in his own mind, he was doing it all to stand up for someone else.

    The havoc SEEs can reek is often not maliciously intended, nor is it usually ever part of some grand scheme to overthrow established systems. Their actions are generally motivated by a desire to stand up for someone or to uphold some moral rule or code. Their motives are personal, and the ensuing consequences extend only to affect a narrow sphere of people in their own life. This is in contrast to someone like the Unabomber, who intentionally tries to dismantle established societal systems as part of some political anti-conformity agenda.
    Umm we’re talking about career here though and the SEE’s own lives and life path. Not in a general sense of chaoticness.
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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    get ready to get cucked
    Quote Originally Posted by roger557 View Post
    got this Socionics stuff caught by the balls

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    Quote Originally Posted by mysteryofdungeon View Post
    Umm we’re talking about career here though and the SEE’s own lives and life path. Not in a general sense of chaoticness.

    Ok… I’ll give an example of SEE’s tendency towards chaotic behaviour as it applies to the types of careers that they are best suited for. After running his own business for over a decade, SEE became fed up with having to chase clients to pay up for services already completed, as well as frustration over various (and he has MANY) acquaintances requesting “favours” or reduced rates. He then worked a few years doing shift work at a mine. This job involved much less hassle—in that he no longer had to deal with chasing clients to recoup payment, or to do his own accounting and business expense accounts, company taxes etc. However, at this new job he became extremely frustrated with the poor work ethic and institutional mindset of complacency and laziness that can often occur in such large hierarchical organizations. Just coming off of working in a sole proprietorship—which contained a built-in incentive to work harder because it lead directly to more business and more money—it became extremely demoralizing to have to “dumb down” his work ethic to match those of many coworkers. There was even resentment amongst some of the old timers if people worked too hard, thereby exposing the lackadaisical status quo. SEE became frustrated when many coworkers were failing to get their workload done during their 12 hour shift, and then would get time and a half for a +4…basically earning overtime as a reward for not completing their allotted workload. The mine was considering becoming unionized, and would have meetings where he raised his frustration over this issue of people being rewarded with overtime for their laziness. There was even a saying amongst the entry level workers to “play hide and seek for a grand a week”, meaning that they would often nap or couldn’t be found when needed during their shift. This frustrated SEE because according to company rules/policies, there were certain tasks or operations that employees were not allowed to execute on their own, yet he could often not be able to find any coworkers because they’d be sleeping or hiding LOL 😂. According to Gulenko, a SEE “dislikes it when others don't take his arguments and conclusions on a given situation or problem into consideration. Those who ignore his remarks he will consider to be his opponents. Dependent on the established order within the area where he lives or works, may complain about lack of organization and disorder…SEE knows how to stand up for himself. Reacts boisterously when his freedom and opportunities are being limited”. Well….😬 after becoming increasingly frustrated over several months, SEE brought up the issue over laziness and complacency being rewarded again at a meeting and became so angry at the ensuing crickets, that he flipped over a table and cussed everyone out over their lazy work ethic.🤬😤 So yes his actions were chaotic, and once again his temper and subsequent outburst was Fi driven, due to the fact that he was calling people out for breaking one of his Fi moral codes about co-workers not having any pride in their work ethic, and instead passing the buck by dishonourably putting their own share of work onto their co-worker. Needless to say, SEE did not remain at that job. It was not a good fit, as it did not allow him to utilize his gifts in a gratifying way.

    According to Gulenko, SEE presents himself as an original, unusual personality which won't be fitted into any frameworks. Confident, has aptitude for leadership. Enterprising, adventurous, and active, SEE strives to take practical actions within the sphere of communications. Prefers to solve problems immediately. Knows how to make useful contacts and utilize them. In political games often masterfully maneuvers between his contacts on the opposing sides. Reconciles with people just as easily as he quarrels with them. Thus I submit that the career most suited to his particular interests and gifts is to work in sports—as a coach, referee or commentator. He already has some coaching experience, possesses a keen personal interest in and passion for all sports, and his social gifts and propensity towards keeping active would allow him to enjoy the work, and be fulfilled as well as successful.



  28. #28
    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    I have been told that hotel management also suits SEEs.

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    I think my uncle is SEE-Fi (Harmonizer most likely in DCNH) and he was a manager at a manufacturing company. He seems to enjoy ordering people but is also very casual about it. I don't think he's a very career person though, he mostly just enjoys going to trips, eating out, etc.

    A bit recently he said he is able to find an opportunity - basically he said he can be a middleman, he will get people and give them resources and they will work for him and he'll get a cut because he will give the initial resources to start it up. So he's trying to lure people in. For some reason he's just very easy to read - and so I said you don't really want a business, you actually want the resources because you want to use them yourself. It's obvious that the whole thing is shady, but maybe he looks innocent and childishly excited about it himself like he's the one who will be taken advantage of. He laughed and said something like I always keep on ratting him out. So he never did it. Tbf, the whole thing is also innocent, he really just wanted the resources for his own leisure.

    Maybe also gambling. Idk if it's a type thing but my uncle is a good gambler. Tbf he's quick about random things like this. I'm like, Where the ball go! (but there is also a possibility that I'm just very slow). They said way back he would compete for someone else's game and he'll get a cut. A few years ago too, other people and him gambled and they said he's very lucky. He won a lot and they lost so much because he just kept on winning, and of course they want to earn it all back but they just kept on losing. I don't know why they are dumb that way not to think of stopping, but I guess my uncle got guilty and they said he ended up giving it all back. Or idk maybe it's just a family thing not even a socionics thing. I love risking things myself hehe. I never accept invitations to go to anything even slightly risky like a casino. So I mostly just stay at home.

  30. #30
    Kiba's Avatar
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    Narcotraficante

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiba View Post
    Narcotraficante
    Yeah, just not the boss because most of them would be awful at coming up with a hierarchy and system and sticking to it.

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