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Thread: Betas & Emotion

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    Default Betas & Emotion

    Gammas talk about having intense emotions, and Deltas talk about subtle emotions. And both seem preoccupied with not losing control, not letting the wrong emotions spill out, or not feeling the wrong emotions in the first place.

    Beta emotions can be dramatic, but are they intense and overwhelming like Fi types describe? In those moments do you lose control of who you are? Or is it more cathartic/indulgent? Do emotions turn you into a different person, or are they an excuse to be melodramatic? Do you look at airing emotions (among your people) as bad?

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    constant turn over and doubt. just because i feel a certain way doesnt make it right. i dont want to lose control and harm. what about missing the right emotions. its all over the place but im trying to understand it. theres nothing wrong with airing emotions unless u are pushing them/strongly possessed in the wrong percspective. airing them is obvious to me regardless someone trying to suck it in and cover up, thats even worse actually bc it becomes more intense and overwhelming.
    i want to have the right emotion, which can have many right ones in the sense they arent wrong. u can ironize the wrong ones so they are now right. my mental state shifts with them but is it the chicken or the egg.
    i said i didnt get affected when someone's picking on me, now it ocurred to me this also oscillates hard in either direction. i can be amused about unintentionally and illogically pisisng someone off, and i can be very upset that one is having a problem over some bullshit that shouldnt concern them. if it shouldnt concern them but i feel like its a genuine mistake and they are the kind of person who's capable of understanding and listening i would be way less mad or amused. some people are very used to forcing their own biases on others as if their feelings are facts. those are often not EIIs for example, which i guess would be unfairly stereotyped like that.
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    I was never preoccupied with "feeling the wrong emotion" but I definitely had troubles in my life expressing my emotions and even gauging whether if I should trust someone or not with those private thoughts. I guess to me, personally, I express my emotions but I never talk about my feelings. Unless you're my mother, but no one else gets that privilege. I don't think everyone should be trusted with that information and plus you get to a certain age in your life where you want to be more independent.

    I think I'm a cordial around family members and even strangers, but I'm never "close" to anyone if that makes sense. I kinda just do my own thing

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    Idk, I feel things deeply but I wouldn't say they are all that intense or even dramatic ((ooh I'm gay so I MUST be dramatic huh , or I know how to put a good front/poker face to the world when it's necessary lol. A good/bad thing about me though is I will challenge/talk back to almost anybody even if they are 'official' authority and I'm not really the nicest to those people because they've never been nice to me. If I would have just kept my mouth shut sooner I wouldn't have been at Starr for so long- but you know what, I regret nothing - it was worth it just to piss off an LSE. I clash badly with those LSEs haha. I guess it's like eminem said, if you don't have a problem with me- I don't have a problem with you lol. I've noticed that My Ni often senses the idiosyncrasies of people quite well... even if my emotions aren't very subtle myself, I can easily pick up on the subtle (or not so subtle) tones of others.

    Acting like a fool is sometimes necessary to me even if you are looked down upon. It's about the end goal/what is at stake that is more important than being a 'fool' because that sort of thing is often an illusion anyway. Acting like fools and misbehaving is how gay people got equal rights in the first place to be frank - yeah it's all normal and not an issue to be gay now like it's all Delta normie join the army whee I'm boring and married just like everybody else - but it was all started via some Beta drag queens. <3 It's sometimes even worth your own life idk. Most things in life really just end up boring/depressing/dissapointing me anyway - the shining glories of what is promised always turn out to be nothing more than cruel taunts in the end. So part of me doesn't have any issue sacrficing myself for a greater good... or be a true revolutionary.

    I mean it's hard for me to enjoy the smallfolk things Deltas seem to like anyway- I like things to be wild, extreme and animalistic- I am very Beta in that way I admit. But wild animal doesn't mean 'evil' not really- I don't get some sick satisfaction seeing a real innocent person being hurt or anything like that lol. I think in a way fixing up the sadism of the Beta quadra is the ultimate goal of what IEI is supposed to do in a way- the 'bad animal' side, cleaning/fixing that up- it makes sense to me. But of course the primal animal in a human is necessary, not bad- just misunderstood etc. Deltas are walking away from this side of human nature and judging it as bad/not me - and writing 347923847239487239847243 psychology articles about how you should be etc, whereas Betas are often explorering the Id further- that's why the two quadras often don't get along.

    It's really deeper than emotions in a way- it's how a person is thinking, their thought patterns and behaviors. btw I'm also a 37 year old adult with a job so naturally I don't feel much intense emotions because just my brain is 'boring adult' usually sadly lol. I can't really get wound up like I could when I was younger- that's not all that type related to me.

    People are also layered and complicated like uhh even though I'm an evil demonic Beta- Delta IEE is also the third socionic type I am like the most according to that talaniv (sp) test guy. I think it helps explain the mutual affection I have with @Kim and Slacker Mom and some other Deltas lol. I'm also an alphafied Beta so the gammafied Deltas or deltafied gammas have been the most clashy with me personally.

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    Betas are Fe valuers and on the Fe/Ni axis so their emotions have always seemed notably "thought out"/cerebralized (given the nature of the fxn being extroverted, in this instance Fe - it turns to analyse itself outwardly re: the public emotional realm rather from the inside) than deeply intense. Feeling is a universal characteristic and anyone can have a strong feeling about something, but when it comes to something like this you have to think of how it manifests on average. Most of the time their emotions are more performative than anything. Or at least that's how it looks like to an Fi user contrastingly. It's more about appearing a certain way or presenting something in a way to someone with goal to affect their emotions and the social environment versus personally indulging in your own subjective sentiments about something ad nauseam.
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    Quote Originally Posted by inaLim View Post
    Gammas talk about having intense emotions, and Deltas talk about subtle emotions. And both seem preoccupied with not losing control, not letting the wrong emotions spill out, or not feeling the wrong emotions in the first place.
    Is this based upon a resource, or personal observation?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    Is this based upon a resource, or personal observation?
    The first sentence is based on IRL conversations and interactions. ex. the way gammas talk about revenge/family. The second sentence is how Gammas & Deltas seem to me based on what they say.
    Last edited by inaLim; 12-03-2021 at 01:35 PM.

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    Extroverted ethics (Fe) is an extroverted, rational, and dynamic information element. It is also called Fe, E, the ethics of emotions, or black ethics.

    Fe is generally associated with the ability to recognize and convey (i.e. make others experience) passions, moods, and emotional states, generate excitement, liveliness, and feelings, get emotionally involved in activities and emotionally involve others, recognize and describe emotional interaction between people and groups, and build a sense of community and emotional unity.

    Types that value Fe like creating a visible atmosphere of camaraderie with other people. They enjoy a loose atmosphere where anything goes, where people don't have to watch too carefully what they say for fear of offending others. This means these types try not to be too thin-skinned, taking jokes with a grain of salt. However, they are very conscious of the fact that the way something is said is very important to how it will be received, so they tend to add emphasis, embellishments, and exaggerations here and there to keep people engaged. The best way to say something is highly dependent on the situation and the implied purpose of the exchange, so of course levity is not appropriate in some situations.

    Even after explosive arguments, these types find it hard to hold grudges, and can tolerate people they in principle don't like, as long as the situation is primarily social and doesn't require too close contact. They prefer misgivings to be out in the open; they believe that the silent treatment is one of the worst things you can do to a person, and only aggravates the underlying problem.

    Fe as a base (1st) function (ESE and EIE)

    The individual is always in tune to the emotional flow surrounding him, and responds to it spontaneously and directly. He seeks out and creates activities where people are totally engaged in what they are doing. Something's value is directly tied to how much it arouses his or another's passion.

    He is highly proactive about steering the emotional flow in the direction he himself considers ideal to a given situation. He may, for example, try to cheer people with jokes if he sees that they are too gloomy or, conversely, to get people to be serious and concentrated if they are too carefree during a crisis situation. Nevertheless, he believes emotions should be expressed as honestly as possible.

    Fe as a creative (2nd) function (SEI and IEI)

    The person is sensitive to the emotional atmosphere around him, either from an individual, or a group, or even from inanimate objects such as the landscape, the state of the physical environment he happens to be in, or his own emotional associations with the place or people around him. A positive emotional atmophere is essential for his sense of well being and inner peace, and he either tries to promote it himself by directly influencing it around him, or by simply moving away from the environment or the people causing a negative emotional environment in his view.

    For the SEI, this takes an on-the-spot aspect and is reflected in cracking jokes, trying to make people laugh, or simply moving away from people he perceives as affecting him negatively. For the IEI, this takes a longer-term perspective; so the focus, rather than being on the immediate emotional environment, is on the perceived longer-term emotional state of others towards the individual, and is reflected in trying to be on good terms with those he interacts with or seeking distance or protection from, or "preventively" attacking, those he sees as irremediably hostile emotionally.
    https://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=Extroverted_ethics#Fe_as_leading_f unction_in_EIE_(ENFj;_Hamlet)_and_ESE_(ESFj;_Hugo)


    Fe Egos are more concerned with the externalized emotions of their environment. This is prioritized over evaluating the subjective distance between people and things (Fi). Fi egos may see this as more frivolous because they simply don't share our values.

    Fe egos see concentrating too much on Fi as suffocating and exhausting because we prefer to concentrate more on the emotional atmosphere.

    I myself don't particularly relate to ignoring Fi, in the sense that I don't care about people's Fi. I am not Fi PoLR. I will see it as less of a priority though.

    EIE tends to create dramatic narratives that can span throughout history, using Fe to create their intended emotional atmosphere and creative Ni. IEI perceives their world via Ni and uses the emotional atmosphere as a tool to navigate through the world. Both types utilize Fi it's just not a priority, which isn't good enough for Fi egos.

    The problem is I myself see many Fi ignoring and demo Fi users as duplicitous and superficial. So I'm not sure if it has to do with type. For example, I almost always will hear a demo Fi user SEI and IEI say that they feel as if people feel closer to them than they really are. An Fi lead will ensure that those that feel close to them are close to them in my opinion, it's creative Fe that likes to create an atmosphere of closeness that isn't there.

    As for Fi ignoring, this is generally an obnoxious person who cares more about emotional impact over behaving like a real person. You know that person who you talk to who "actively listens" a little too much where you doubt they are really even listening to what you are saying at all? Probably a Fe lead.

    The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.

    The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".

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    Spiritual Advisor Hope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by inaLim View Post
    Gammas talk about having intense emotions, and Deltas talk about subtle emotions. And both seem preoccupied with not losing control, not letting the wrong emotions spill out, or not feeling the wrong emotions in the first place.

    Beta emotions can be dramatic, but are they intense and overwhelming like Fi types describe? In those moments do you lose control of who you are? Or is it more cathartic/indulgent? Do emotions turn you into a different person, or are they an excuse to be melodramatic? Do you look at airing emotions (among your people) as bad?
    I think we all feel emotions in different levels, but being melodramatic usually means the person is using emotions to try to manipulate or get their way( manipulation can be with either positive or negative emotions). Ime it's easier for a logical type to lose control and to be overwhelmed by emotions than for ethicals. I think they are more aware, in tune and in control of them and know how to use them. Usually if they seem exagerated it's just because they are playing a role or letting it escalate for a mean (not because they have lost control of it). Though probably there are some drama addicts (and the hormones and substances it release in the brain).

    As a side note, Ime ExE really live through their emotions. Probably the rest of ethicals just use them as tools. I mean, I think ExE are really driven by emotions, however the rest of ethicals just use them as is convenient. This is why I kinda see Fe lead as dangerous (crazy) and impractical. However not that I enjoy most ppl expressing their negative emotions in improper ways(or pushing me to emote).
    Last edited by Hope; 12-19-2021 at 05:20 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eudaimonia View Post
    As for Fi ignoring, this is generally an obnoxious person who cares more about emotional impact over behaving like a real person. You know that person who you talk to who "actively listens" a little too much where you doubt they are really even listening to what you are saying at all? Probably a Fe lead.

    Lots of types do this. I've seen ESE have the most surprised face ever. I also worked with a SEE woman who does this, but will admit with a joke she wasn't actually listening.

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    @inaLim

    So, what are the answers?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatte View Post
    Interesting question. How about you, what is your experience of emotions?

    @inaLim I am trying to PM you in response to your message from a few months back about my Ni/Si thread, but it won't go through due to a setting. Is there any way I can reach you in private?
    Try now, should go through. May take a while for me to reply, I've been sick & I'm way behind on getting back to ppl.

    gonna have to come back to this thread later

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    Quote Originally Posted by inaLim View Post
    Beta emotions can be dramatic, but are they intense and overwhelming like Fi types describe?
    Unfortunately not. We overdramatize in the hopes of feeling something deeper but it's generally theatrical

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