Results 1 to 36 of 36

Thread: Your opinion on Semi-duals

  1. #1
    Stray Cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    TIM
    SLE-Ti
    Posts
    816
    Mentioned
    107 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Your opinion on Semi-duals

    What's your opinion of semi-duals and does the polarity of their functions stimulate you mentally?

  2. #2
    ♡˗ˏ*˚velvet cinnamoroll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2021
    Posts
    25
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I know a few SEEs in my life, all of whom are spunky, have a playful sense of humor, and seem to be more uhhh.... Affectionate compared to SLE. Lol they often like to poke fun at their relatives and get reactions out of them, but their relatives know they're playing around and indulge in their special bond together. They can be stimulating to be around, but I think it's hard to find things to talk about with them

  3. #3
    Stray Cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    TIM
    SLE-Ti
    Posts
    816
    Mentioned
    107 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I've read that the communication styles are associated with the rational functions. It might be the reason irrational mirage get along

  4. #4
    Stray Cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    TIM
    SLE-Ti
    Posts
    816
    Mentioned
    107 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    How does the SEE'S nature affect you?

  5. #5
    Local Legend Toro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Rust Belt
    TIM
    SEIZOR
    Posts
    501
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think illusionary is a better relationship, an ESI is a perfectly suitable partner for me. I don't think LII is as good of a partner for EIE. In my experience, I see illusionary more often than semi-duality.

    For example, SEI-SLE relationships are all too common.
    Bound upon me, rush upon me, I will overcome you by enduring your onset: whatever strikes against that which is firm and unconquerable merely injures itself by its own violence. Wherefore, seek some soft and yielding object to pierce with your darts.

    -Seneca

  6. #6
    The Darling Duck~ MissDucki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Location
    In a dark room somewhere
    Posts
    1,600
    Mentioned
    224 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Semi-duals for rationals happen more often. I haven't been around a lot of LSI's but they love my Fe I have noticed. They are comfy too. The only issue that I find is they only relate on one commodity which can be rough.I think semi-dual for rationals would be easier to get together. HOWEVER, I think long-term irrational duals would stay together more imo. Simply because irrationally tends to make things a little smoother.

  7. #7
    ♡˗ˏ*˚velvet cinnamoroll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2021
    Posts
    25
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think I'm a lot more calmer around them I guess? It's weird to say. Not as in my head, more engaged with my environment I mean. They try to lighten my mood sometimes too, I guess. But I sometimes feel like I can't be myself around them lmao.

  8. #8
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    15,880
    Mentioned
    1516 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

  9. #9
    FreelancePoliceman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    TIM
    LII-Ne
    Posts
    4,747
    Mentioned
    444 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think I prefer the typical EIE to the typical ESE. I would say there's more stimulation in the sense that, IMO, dual relations are prone to falling into stagnation. Another reason I like EIEs compared to ESEs is that it's easier to talk with them and understand them. It seems to be very difficult for duals to actually understand much about each other.

  10. #10
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    15,880
    Mentioned
    1516 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    I think I prefer the typical EIE to the typical ESE. I would say there's more stimulation in the sense that, IMO, dual relations are prone to falling into stagnation. Another reason I like EIEs compared to ESEs is that it's easier to talk with them and understand them. It seems to be very difficult for duals to actually understand much about each other.
    An ESI with an elephantine memory told me the other day “You said that Duals will never really understand each other.”

    I replied, “That’s probably true. But Duals work together seamlessly and provide each other with the best support.”

  11. #11
    FreelancePoliceman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    TIM
    LII-Ne
    Posts
    4,747
    Mentioned
    444 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    An ESI with an elephantine memory told me the other day “You said that Duals will never really understand each other.”

    I replied, “That’s probably true. But Duals work together seamlessly and provide each other with the best support.”
    Maybe some duals can. But not all duals do, and perhaps a few seams can make for a better product in the long run.

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    TIM
    ILI - H/C 4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    674
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I have a SLE - creative sub relative. He's a playboy, funny and charismatic. Always teasing me, making physical joke whenever he has a chance. (I'm such an easy target huh?)

    I love Se ego creative sub lol, they make me feel much much more alive. I also have a good friendship with a LSI - C guy.

  13. #13
    FreelancePoliceman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    TIM
    LII-Ne
    Posts
    4,747
    Mentioned
    444 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by one View Post
    SLEs are great, I just need to be more extra positive around them so they know what I feel and tone down the negativity since they know what to do and don't need someone to stop them doing stupid decisions anyway. I think they're one of the best types to be with romantic and friendship-wise.
    You've said you don't really like SEEs much, right?

  14. #14
    FreelancePoliceman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    TIM
    LII-Ne
    Posts
    4,747
    Mentioned
    444 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by one View Post
    Yes, why?
    I thought it was interesting that you preferred your semi-duals, and wanted to double-check.

  15. #15
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    15,880
    Mentioned
    1516 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    I had a long discussion yesterday with my lesbian ESI-Se Dual about my Semi-Duals, because she is dating one (an EII) right now. In other words, she’s dating her Kindred.

    She seems a lot happier with EII than she was with the LSI (two years together and then a stormy breakup) or the SLE (two years together and then agreed to go their separate ways). But the ESI has been working with me on and off for almost ten years and she’s well aware of how she feels in a Dual relationship.
    The ESI asked me what EIIs are like.

    I told her that she and her GF share a dominant function and a lot of other characteristics which can make each other appear to be as interesting as Duals are to each other, sort of like my relationship with LSEs. But it’s not all smooth sailing.

    I told her about an incident this week when I and an LIE that I know were talking about an LSE who works with him. They are also Kindred.
    ”Nice guy,” I said to the LIE.
    ”Nice guy if you like assholes”, the LIE said.
    The ESI’s face fell.

    I then went on and described to the ESI my relationship with my semi-Dual EII secretary. That she was like the ESI in that I felt I could take her anywhere and be proud of her. That she was modest and attractive and smart and Damn if she wasn’t everything a man could want in a woman and I’d be married to her right now if I didn’t know about Socionics, because she is single and she thinks I’m the best thing she’s ever seen.

    I told the ESI that, one magic evening after taking the EII out to dinner at the best restaurant in town and just being proud to be with her, we had returned to our cars in the parking lot and under the moon and stars she had stood very close to me and looked up into my eyes with an expression that said “Well, how about it, big boy?”
    And I couldn’t do it because she’s not a Dual. She’s not the whole package. She and I can’t work together as seamlessly as I can and have with the ESI.

    One thing that I really didn’t appreciate when I first started reading the descriptions of the ESI-LIE Duality is the importance of mutual work to this dyad. I’ve found ESIs who are full ESIs and I get along with them perfectly, but we broke up because we weren’t working towards the same goal.

    I’ve discovered that the two requirements I have for a mate are that she be ESI and that we have a common working goal. All else is background noise.

    The EII semi-Dual and I could not motivate each other to do each other’s wishes. The ESI and I do each other’s bidding effortlessly.

    Relationships with my Semi-Duals are really easy to start. There is a lot of admiration there and we quickly decide that we really like each other.
    In contrast, my relationships with my Duals are a huge amount of work to start. ESIs only seem to know one word, but they know it in infinite variations. That word is No. No no no NO no No no No No.

    The difference between my Duals and my Semi-Duals appears later. With the Semi-Duals, we join up right away and then discover that we don’t work together well. With my Duals, if we don’t work together, nothing gets started. But if we DO work together, then things fall into place seamlessly.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 11-26-2021 at 02:21 PM.

  16. #16
    Averroes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    TIM
    ESI-H 936 Sp
    Posts
    1,113
    Mentioned
    34 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    They’re generally good people and occasionally helpful when it comes to practical things but their advice often feels like unwelcome nagging or condescension and I sometimes dread being stuck in a one on one conversation with older ones
    Last edited by Averroes; 11-26-2021 at 02:41 PM.

  17. #17
    Rusal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    TIM
    IEI-C
    Posts
    871
    Mentioned
    76 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think that the minor degree of separation in semi-duality helps keep things interesting. Personally, I tend to find some LIIs fascinating, not to mention that LSIs look “nice” but many LIIs, due to the phenotype of their psyche and the aesthetics they choose, acquire a certain physique du role that can make them look twisted, if you will believe it, which intrigues me. They're a sunshine once you've met them but it's still a bonus. However, having observed an ESI-LSE marriage, the downside to a long-term relationship between negativist semi-duals is that if it includes having a child, it'd better be a positivist. A household of negativists becomes a bit oppressive at times.
    Sicuramente cercherai il significato di questo.

  18. #18
    p o m's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Location
    new vegas
    TIM
    SEI • sx9
    Posts
    38
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    SEEs are so fun. from what i’ve seen, they command attention even if they’re not particularly trying to and i admire how capable they seem. but i agree with Toro in that i prefer illusionary. because out of anything about my semi dual it’s the creative fi that makes me a bit insecure and uncomfortable lol


  19. #19
    Shazaam's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Lamp
    TIM
    AB-IEI-Ni
    Posts
    14,001
    Mentioned
    616 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Another thread about semi-duality? I feel like this is like the 15th thread about it but oh well I'll just kinda say again what I said in the other ones hehe.

    Can be very playful, mutual loving and affectionate but I don't respond well if they try to tell me what to do or get too bossy. I find their Te HA really annoying at times and they have found my Ti HA likewise quite annoying. I like their Se and their raw power. Can sometimes get into dramatic bitch fights with each other but don't stay upset with each other for very long usually. More grudge inducing than grudge holding. I think these relations are generally more good than bad, but I also have a feeling you don't really want to be with your semi-dual for long periods of time or anything lol. Because over time having your hidden agenda being the other person's polr is kind of like an insidious infection. It's kinda like 'ahhh I have a lot of natural affection for them - this should just be working more than this for that reason!' But it never ever really does. A puzzle piece that doesn't quite fit. But on an emotional and "spiritual" level it's really.... nice.

  20. #20
    chriscorey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    TIM
    what?
    Posts
    4,577
    Mentioned
    119 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I was married to my semi-dual for 18 years. He did his thing and I did my thing, but I think it lacked some passion in the end(could be normal). He told my son he always liked how I'd be silent in a group like I wasn't paying attention and then I'd say something really funny and make everyone laugh(I was paying attention) lol We just grew apart. We'd always discuss our interests with each other, and so it was simulating, yes. We'd also take college courses together.

    He's married to an ESI now and I think he appreciates her Fi from what I have observed. He seems like a much more compassionate person now, but he describes her as needy and jealous.

  21. #21

    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    TIM
    IEI-Ni H946
    Posts
    1,548
    Mentioned
    111 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I am really into the idea of meeting a semi-dual. I have matched with a cute SEE but yet to meet him. I haven’t known many male semi-duals but I have known semi-duals (male and female) who have impressed me with their conversation. Have also had close female SEE friends who were really fun. My SEE aunt is older and has had problems but still manages to be full of life and laughter and make me feel like life is something special and shiny, like there is a point to it, a secret to keep discovering.

    I haven’t had a boyfriend before but I’ve had some big crushes, the biggest were on an EIE guy and more recently my friend and colleague, an SEI. Both seemed a bit ‘out of my league’ and I was left feeling very low when the SEI rejected me..I feel like he looks down on me, at least it comes across this way so of course that’s painful. Well, I suddenly remembered that I got chatted up by a cute SEE guy a couple of years ago.

    Sadly, I was not in a good headspace and we didn’t exchange numbers. I was on a night out and I had recently had my heart broken by the SEI guy and had just discovered socionics after many years of mental health struggles. I was only just learning to type. A youngish guy came up to me in the club and asked for my number..he was kinda cute but I was taken aback by how direct he was so awkwardly said maybe later or something. Later I kept trying to look out for him and was kicking myself for not talking to him more. Anyway later in the night another guy got talking to me (I don’t generally get chatted up this much lol) and by this point I was a bit drunk and depressed. He was cute but a little reserved although he was talking to me a lot. I could tell he wanted me to show a bit more interest because he was hinting at being interested but not coming straight out with it (SEEs sometimes need a bit of encouragement) but at the time it was too much for me because I had no confidence and was uncomfortable initiating romance. I felt confused and panicked and didn’t quite register how handsome, mysterious and interesting this guy seemed. On the level of my top two crushes (EIE and SEI guys). Or maybe close to them. Sadly we did not swap numbers and maybe it was not the right time anyway and maybe he still wasn’t right for me. He would have been more right for me than the EIE and SEI guys though.

    So what is my point…I dunno maybe there really is a smouldering hot semi-dual
    of your dreams out there? I don’t know if that type of semi-dual is the most compatible type of semi-dual for long term success…but maybe when it comes to semi-duals there are semi-duals out there that are your dream guy but in a realistic form. Similarly to the SEI and EIE he had dark hair, a mysterious aura, trendy style and good taste in music/clubs. I have no idea if he was as clever as them but i think he was smart. So yeah, maybe your semi-dual really can give you that boost to realise your social self-worth like I’ve read about them. I will not forget him in a hurry.

    I doubt I’ll find another SEE so good but if I did find one and they were something close, I think I’d be thrilled.
    Last edited by Bethany; 01-02-2022 at 10:30 PM.

  22. #22
    End's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    TIM
    ILI-Ni sp/sx
    Posts
    1,708
    Mentioned
    278 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chriscorey View Post
    I was married to my semi-dual for 18 years. He did his thing and I did my thing, but I think it lacked some passion in the end(could be normal). He told my son he always liked how I'd be silent in a group like I wasn't paying attention and then I'd say something really funny and make everyone laugh(I was paying attention) lol We just grew apart. We'd always discuss our interests with each other, and so it was simulating, yes. We'd also take college courses together.

    He's married to an ESI now and I think he appreciates her Fi from what I have observed. He seems like a much more compassionate person now, but he describes her as needy and jealous.
    I'm going to say it yet again. Attachment issues. 18 years? I'd wager it was 18 years of both of you being absolutely miserable with hardly any sex happening to boot. I hate to go there but you go to/attract the attentions of an ILI if you're in need of a "harsh" truth/prognosis delivered right to your face. Furthermore, I bet you never dared to voice the reasons as to why to each other. That is, you didn't openly share and exchange needs. Oh you'd try to no doubt, but the attempts actually boiled down to what both of you thought were obvious hints but really weren't because of the dual reasons of male and female communication is different and how each type would attempt to honestly communicate their needs being different. Once you can wrap your head around both it's an easy enough calculation to make. Though, once more, this requires both to be securely attached to each other.

    Seems like he (and by extension his new wife) still hasn't fixed them completely. In my own conjectures it's actually no surprise. The "Benefactor-Beneficiary" relation is much preferable to the broken over that of semi-duality. Why? Because they're both giving each other something the other wants yet it never really satisfies one side over the other. In this case, the ESI is the more "needy" of the pair and the SLI is subconsciously happy about that even as they complain about it. Remember, the "broken" seek to "earn" love and validation over taking a more abundant mindset. The healthy trust that once the right person is met they will just give it out without any strings attached and that they will do so in turn. Within reason of course. No romance is ever "ideal" even between duals but I hope you get the gist of my point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    I am really into the idea of meeting a semi-dual. I have matched with a cute SEE but yet to meet him. I haven’t known many male semi-duals but I have known semi-duals (male and female) who have impressed me with their conversation. Have also had close female SEE friends who were really fun. My SEE aunt is older and has had problems but still manages to be full of life and laughter and make me feel like life is something special and shiny, like there is a point to it, a secret to keep discovering.

    I haven’t had a boyfriend before but I’ve had some big crushes, the biggest were on an EIE guy and more recently my friend and colleague, an SEI. Both seemed a bit ‘out of my league’ and I was left feeling very low when the SEI rejected me..I feel like he looks down on me, at least it comes across this way so of course that’s painful. Well, I suddenly remembered that I got chatted up by a cute SEE guy a couple of years ago.

    Sadly, I was not in a good headspace and we didn’t exchange numbers. I was on a night out and I had recently had my heart broken by the SEI guy and had just discovered socionics after many years of mental health struggles. I was only just learning to type. A youngish guy came up to me in the club and asked for my number..he was kinda cute but I was taken aback by how direct he was so awkwardly said maybe later or something. Later I kept trying to look out for him and was kicking myself for not talking to him more. Anyway later in the night another guy got talking to me (I don’t generally get chatted up this much lol) and by this point I was a bit drunk and depressed. He was cute but a little reserved although he was talking to me a lot. I could tell he wanted me to show a bit more interest because he was hinting at being interested but not coming straight out with it (SEEs sometimes need a bit of encouragement) but at the time it was too much for me because I had no confidence and was uncomfortable initiating romance. I felt confused and panicked and didn’t quite register how handsome, mysterious and interesting this guy seemed. On the level of my top two crushes (EIE and SEI guys). Or maybe close to them. Sadly we did not swap numbers and maybe it was not the right time anyway and maybe he still wasn’t right for me. He would have been more right for me than the EIE and SEI guys though.

    So what is my point…I dunno maybe there really is a smouldering hot semi-dual
    of your dreams out there? I don’t know if that type of semi-dual is the most compatible type of semi-dual for long term success…but maybe when it comes to semi-duals there are semi-duals out there that are your dream guy but in a realistic form. Similarly to the SEI and EIE he had dark hair, a mysterious aura, trendy style and good taste in music/clubs. I have no idea if he was as clever as them but i think he was smart. So yeah, maybe your semi-dual really can give you that boost to realise your social self-worth like I’ve read about them. I will not forget him in a hurry.

    I doubt I’ll find another SEE so good but if I did find one and they were something close, I think I’d be thrilled.
    Yeah, I can see how I'd have handled that. The SEE would make a ton of points and hint at shit over and over and then, because to me they're obviously avoiding saying something important (and seem a bit sexually frustrated I'd bet), I'd have just gotten frustrated myself and said "Ok that's it. It sounds like you're attracted to/hitting on me. Be honest (I look them square in the eyes, locking my pupils onto theirs as I say the next part as I tried to maintain my best poker face). Are you?"

    That'd probably get the SEE to just plainly say "Yes!". To which I'd respond: "Wow. I wasn't expecting that. Ok then, we'll... start dating! What's your schedule look like and what are your favorite things to do (whips out a notepad)? How many times would you like to meet up each week? I do hope it's more than 2 as I believe we're going to get along very well. I'm not rich though, so no super-fancy restaurants. Though, if you're willing to 'Go Dutch' we can easily recreate a rather expensive dish on a budget."

    This might be why you didn't get that SEE. The - axis is just too damn "rational" in this sense. You just needed to blurt out your feelings without a filter and they would have gotten it. Screw what anyone or everyone else has to say. What do you feel like saying? What do you want? This is how we gamma's think. True authenticity is the greatest aphrodisiac and also most direct path to happiness far as we can see. Stop wearing a mask, just tear it off and if other people tell you to crawl into a ditch and die when you do? Well fuck em'! Do what ya want!

  23. #23
    chriscorey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    TIM
    what?
    Posts
    4,577
    Mentioned
    119 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    I'm going to say it yet again. Attachment issues. 18 years? I'd wager it was 18 years of both of you being absolutely miserable with hardly any sex happening to boot. I hate to go there but you go to/attract the attentions of an ILI if you're in need of a "harsh" truth/prognosis delivered right to your face. Furthermore, I bet you never dared to voice the reasons as to why to each other. That is, you didn't openly share and exchange needs. Oh you'd try to no doubt, but the attempts actually boiled down to what both of you thought were obvious hints but really weren't because of the dual reasons of male and female communication is different and how each type would attempt to honestly communicate their needs being different. Once you can wrap your head around both it's an easy enough calculation to make. Though, once more, this requires both to be securely attached to each other.

    Seems like he (and by extension his new wife) still hasn't fixed them completely. In my own conjectures it's actually no surprise. The "Benefactor-Beneficiary" relation is much preferable to the broken over that of semi-duality. Why? Because they're both giving each other something the other wants yet it never really satisfies one side over the other. In this case, the ESI is the more "needy" of the pair and the SLI is subconsciously happy about that even as they complain about it. Remember, the "broken" seek to "earn" love and validation over taking a more abundant mindset. The healthy trust that once the right person is met they will just give it out without any strings attached and that they will do so in turn. Within reason of course. No romance is ever "ideal" even between duals but I hope you get the gist of my point.
    We had sex at least three times a week sometimes every day. The sex was never lacking and we were both open to each other, there. I met the SLI when I was 14 and he was my first kiss. We weren't open to each other emotionally in that we didn't discuss feelings. I never understood why, but our sex life was healthy. Neither of us were the kind of people who discussed feelings, but looking back we should have found a way. I guess that can be an attachment issue.

    After being with the ESI he actually apologized to me for never being compassionate.

  24. #24
    End's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    TIM
    ILI-Ni sp/sx
    Posts
    1,708
    Mentioned
    278 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chriscorey View Post
    We had sex at least three times a week sometimes every day. The sex was never lacking and we were both open to each other, there. I met the SLI when I was 14 and he was my first kiss. We weren't open to each other emotionally in that we didn't discuss feelings. I never understood why, but our sex life was healthy. Neither of us were the kind of people who discussed feelings, but looking back we should have found a way. I guess that can be an attachment issue.
    It actually is. See, you wouldn't have avoided discussing your true feelings if you sought to have a truly happy relationship.

    - caregiver-infantile sex is more concerned with physical duties over raw passion like - Aggressor-Victim sex so even if you had frequent sex I'd bet it was just a "going through the motions" kind of thing. You were just "doing your duty" over "satisfying deep seated needs" as it were. Not that the former couples can't have intense and deeply satisfying sex lives, but such a sex life will, once again, require secure attachment. For example, a "caregiver" type could and likely would be able to satisfy any other type, but only if they came to understand why they wanted it that way and was able to just "go with it" in the expectation that their partner would reciprocate and do likewise. I can be a good infantile for them every other day. Hell, it's a mirror of being a "victim" after all. One can be "aggressively" submissive or intentionally naive. It's not a hard and fast dichotomy here...

  25. #25

    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    1,655
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    So what I hear you saying is you want it hard and fast.

  26. #26
    chriscorey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    TIM
    what?
    Posts
    4,577
    Mentioned
    119 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    It actually is. See, you wouldn't have avoided discussing your true feelings if you sought to have a truly happy relationship.

    - caregiver-infantile sex is more concerned with physical duties over raw passion like - Aggressor-Victim sex so even if you had frequent sex I'd bet it was just a "going through the motions" kind of thing. You were just "doing your duty" over "satisfying deep seated needs" as it were. Not that the former couples can't have intense and deeply satisfying sex lives, but such a sex life will, once again, require secure attachment. For example, a "caregiver" type could and likely would be able to satisfy any other type, but only if they came to understand why they wanted it that way and was able to just "go with it" in the expectation that their partner would reciprocate and do likewise. I can be a good infantile for them every other day. Hell, it's a mirror of being a "victim" after all. One can be "aggressively" submissive or intentionally naive. It's not a hard and fast dichotomy here...
    That makes sense.

    I don't know if I was just going through the motions because we were attracted to each other and liked having sex. I did find some of his opinions odd, like, he wouldn't let me wear thong panties. He thought thong panties were degrading, and so I never wore them. I'd try spicing things up sometimes and just "nope! I don't want the whore, I want the girl next door" I was something very innocent to him... So I did just "okay, whatever floats your boat" I just thought since we were together so long he'd like to try new things, but not really.

  27. #27

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    13,331
    Mentioned
    1266 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    But Duals work together seamlessly and provide each other with the best support.
    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Maybe some duals can.
    IR theory is about average, most of cases. Understanding of IR theory needs correct types (your and other people), significant and lesser formal interactions. Good to have more examples to reduce influence of other factors.

    Duality gives the best support from the point of activating your weak regions and giving you more of field for self-expression by your strongest interests of ego. When you communicate, cooperate with such people and tune friendly to them, - this improves your psyche state, makes you feeling higher inner energy, self-esteem, more positive life perception. Also duality the most allows to study your weak regions by coping behavior and traits of duals.
    Here we take a common case, where a stronger function in a type supposes better its strenght than in you and above average in a society.

    In more practical side. Among types duality predisposes to give the general help and support the most. But as types is one of factors for relations, so concrete human with duality type mb worse than other with non-duality. A human with lower IQ, higher egocentrism and other opposing factors to your needs may be lesser supportive, what may overweight better IR factor.
    Also. Stronger function in a type means better concrete skills but this also depends on IQ, education and experience, besides functional strenght and functional value. Concrete relations depend on skills much, not only personality potentional.

    > I think I prefer the typical EIE to the typical ESE.

    It's about the experience and its perception. Types and hence IR could be other (mistakes in types are often), lack of examples and surface interactions arise influence of external factors.

    > dual relations are prone to falling into stagnation

    Difference in personality of duals predisposes to keep the interest and what people may give each other. This difference is higher than semiduals have.
    A stagnation happens in positive sense - more pleasant relations have lesser activity for changes inside. While same people may do more activity together for external tasks, instead of opposing between them. May more change/improve each other as persons, as such people trust higher and differ much by types.

    Semiduality, in average, means you'll have not satisfied hunger for 3rd by strenght (in Jung model) function and lesser acceptance for your 2 valued functions.
    For example, LII (doubt in your T) will not get good support for S, his interests to Ne and Si will be lesser accepted. There will be boring and some opposing situation about N.

    > Another reason I like EIEs compared to ESEs is that it's easier to talk with them and understand them.

    Initial and surface contact is easier with people having similarly strong functions. The problem of different values also becomes more meaningful after a time and on closer personal distance, - as it's lesser noticable than functional strenght.
    To cooperate surfacely like pals and colleagues similarity of types helps. For more personally meaningful relations, as friendship, helps functional difference, not similarity. Not situational, but general support what people seek more relates to their weak functions.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  28. #28
    FreelancePoliceman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    TIM
    LII-Ne
    Posts
    4,747
    Mentioned
    444 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Sol
    Semiduality, in average, means you'll have not satisfied hunger for 3rd by strenght (in Jung model) function and lesser acceptance for your 2 valued functions.
    For example, LII (doubt in your T) will not get good support for S, his interests to Ne and Si will be lesser accepted. There will be boring and some opposing situation about N.


    The basic problem is that I'm not sure I want the kind of "acceptance" you find in duality as a long-term relationship. Duality can be great and there's definitely something to it, but I think there's a tendency toward stagnation. In an LII-ESE relationship, the ESE certainly appreciates the Ti and Ne, but is not going to be able to respond in kind at all. Despite an unconscious compatibility, conscious development is limited. Semiduality seems like a potentially good compromise, maybe especially for rational types, because you get that same unconscious appreciation for each other's base function, but there are enough differences to keep things moving, and since you share each other's creative as your demo, you can not only engage them but understand each other to a better degree, and therefore better appreciate them, compared to duals who, despite all their compatibility, don't really understand each other at all.

  29. #29
    Stray Cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    TIM
    SLE-Ti
    Posts
    816
    Mentioned
    107 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    @Sol


    The basic problem is that I'm not sure I want the kind of "acceptance" you find in duality as a long-term relationship. Duality can be great and there's definitely something to it, but I think there's a tendency toward stagnation. In an LII-ESE relationship, the ESE certainly appreciates the Ti and Ne, but is not going to be able to respond in kind at all. Despite an unconscious compatibility, conscious development is limited. Semiduality seems like a potentially good compromise, maybe especially for rational types, because you get that same unconscious appreciation for each other's base function, but there are enough differences to keep things moving, and since you share each other's creative as your demo, you can not only engage them but understand each other to a better degree, and therefore better appreciate them, compared to duals who, despite all their compatibility, don't really understand each other at all.
    You make good point in that a person can, often times, rely heavily on the ego functions and, thus, perplex their dual. The dual sees value in their dual's ego functions but maybe not so much for their heavy reliance upon them.

    For example, an LSI might see value in the EIEs use of Fe but have a tough time understanding how a person could ever rely on Fe to that extent.

    Of course, that's just my take on it

  30. #30
    FreelancePoliceman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    TIM
    LII-Ne
    Posts
    4,747
    Mentioned
    444 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    OK, so I overheard something today from my aunt, an ESE married to an LII. She was fired from three jobs in two months, because she's on antidepressants that "make me stupid." Her family is having a rough time financially because of this and previous work-related trouble. But she explained "I can choose smart or I can choose comfort, but [her husband] is smart, and I have to choose comfort."

    I think this basically supports what I've been thinking about the tendency toward complacency. The LII in this relationship is constantly stressed and is the only one of the two with the intelligence or willingness to support their teenage kids (not only working, but doing things like picking them up from school, making sure they're fed/making financial decisions, etc) while the ESE is unemployed, I'm pretty sure she does close to nothing at home since I've heard she sometimes just lies in bed for a couple days, and has been talking about wanting to arrange flowers for a career, because apparently she once entered a flower shop and "was overwhelmed with such a sense of peace." I'm sure being heavily psychiatrically medicated is a big influence on this, but based on other dual couples I've seen I think it's exacerbating tendencies that are already there. It seems to me that in long-term duality relationships at least one partner will give up their energies in certain areas. I don't think it's dependent on type since I also know an ESE-LII couple where the LII was the one who gave up and depends on the ESE to do most things.

  31. #31
    End's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    TIM
    ILI-Ni sp/sx
    Posts
    1,708
    Mentioned
    278 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chriscorey View Post
    That makes sense.

    I don't know if I was just going through the motions because we were attracted to each other and liked having sex. I did find some of his opinions odd, like, he wouldn't let me wear thong panties. He thought thong panties were degrading, and so I never wore them. I'd try spicing things up sometimes and just "nope! I don't want the whore, I want the girl next door" I was something very innocent to him... So I did just "okay, whatever floats your boat" I just thought since we were together so long he'd like to try new things, but not really.
    Dopamine is a basic bitch drug and you can get it through the simple and riskless act of masturbation. I can actually see how an - couple could mistake that for an enjoyable act and/or a transcendent experience. You Alphas and Deltas (but especially Alpha types) just don't really get it far as us Gamma's see it. I think it's a result of that fundamental disconnect between us.

    For the - and - valuing folks, there is but one reality. One truth that we can all experience if we'd all but make an earnest effort somehow. "Why don't any of you truly think?" is the prime question anyone who falls upon those axis will ask. Now, it is no surprise that we can all approach that single truth in many a way. Yet the ultimate truth remains. One reality. One truth. How and why you come to understand this to be so matters not. What matters is that you get it!

    Now I will try to get my opposite, the Alpha types who by the nature of the - and - axis think they can construct a universal system that never fails to have an answer to any problem no matter the context if they'd just get it right. I am lucky enough to have an LII that I count as a best friend. He values - and - and in all our conversations it really does and did feel like I was an A.I. that valued objective reality yet tempered it with humanity (a Gamma) conversing with a homunculus constructed to be his master's cogitation engine yet concluded that this existence just would not do and thus escaped in order to experience the world his master would have denied him (an Alpha). He is a wonderfully naive existence. Joy in his eyes and innocence in his heart. I almost feel bad when he sets me off and I launch into a most dark prognosis. Yet he just shrugs it off and reaffirms his innocent optimism.

    I in turn insist that my dark and pessimistic prognoses are undeniable and pre-ordained in the worst case scenario. He then points out that it's not as bad as I think as he launches into a rant to explain as to why. I then tell him he's right in an ideal world but the world is not as bright and wonderful as he seems to think. And so it goes back and forth on and on. "Quasi-Identical" given form especially as our IQ scores are damn near equal. An eternal cycle of misunderstanding yet the end result is that no matter how much either of us may find a reason to hate the other, we simply cannot. We're both just too damned intriguing to each other somehow!
    Last edited by End; 01-04-2022 at 05:51 AM.

  32. #32
    chriscorey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    TIM
    what?
    Posts
    4,577
    Mentioned
    119 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    Dopamine is a basic bitch drug and you can get it through the simple and riskless act of masturbation. I can actually see how an - couple could mistake that for an enjoyable act and/or a transcendent experience. You Alphas and Deltas (but especially Alpha types) just don't really get it far as us Gamma's see it. I think it's a result of that fundamental disconnect between us.

    For the - and - valuing folks, there is but one reality. One truth that we can all experience if we'd all but make an earnest effort somehow. "Why don't any of you truly think?" is the prime question anyone who falls upon those axis will ask. Now, it is no surprise that we can all approach that single truth in many a way. Yet the ultimate truth remains. One reality. One truth. How and why you come to understand this to be so matters not. What matters is that you get it!

    Now I will try to get my opposite, the Alpha types who by the nature of the - and - axis think they can construct a universal system that never fails to have an answer to any problem no matter the context if they'd just get it right. I am lucky enough to have an LII that I count as a best friend. He values - and - and in all our conversations it really does and did feel like I was an A.I. that valued objective reality yet tempered it with humanity (a Gamma) conversing with a homunculus constructed to be his master's cogitation engine yet concluded that this existence just would not do and thus escaped in order to experience the world his master would have denied him (an Alpha). He is a wonderfully naive existence. Joy in his eyes and innocence in his heart. I almost feel bad when he sets me off and I launch into a most dark prognosis. Yet he just shrugs it off and reaffirms his innocent optimism.

    I in turn insist that my dark and pessimistic prognoses are undeniable and pre-ordained in the worst case scenario. He then points out that it's not as bad as I think as he launches into a rant to explain as to why. I then tell him he's right in an ideal world but the world is not as bright and wonderful as he seems to think. And so it goes back and forth on and on. "Quasi-Identical" given form especially as our IQ scores are damn near equal. An eternal cycle of misunderstanding yet the end result is that no matter how much either of us may find a reason to hate the other, we simply cannot. We're both just too damned intriguing to each other somehow!
    Well can you elaborate on what a transcendent experience is like for you?

  33. #33
    End's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    TIM
    ILI-Ni sp/sx
    Posts
    1,708
    Mentioned
    278 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chriscorey View Post
    Well can you elaborate on what a transcendent experience is like for you?
    This is rather difficult. If a religious mystic could explain his/her experience of God in concrete terms that could be understood by everyone they'd have done so. I'll attempt it though in the name of science/understanding.

    Imagine experiencing a vision unbidden. You weren't trying to have one and it's not like you even wanted to have it. Yet... it's so beautiful. So beautiful it forces resolution to swell in your heart and brings tears to your eyes. A wonderful and joyous possibility that is eminently attainable and actually possible to realize in this reality. Well, now you've got a goal do you not? You've seen a possible beautiful and joyous future that is not just some utopian flight but rather, a realistic possibility. There is only one logical course of action now that you've seen it. You gotta bring it about. You gotta do your part in order to ensure this bright and wonderful future is the future that is actualized in this reality!

    Will it be hard? Yeah, but what was ever worth doing that wasn't hard? Will you have to sacrifice for it? Yeah, but why wouldn't you make sacrifices in order to realize such a beautiful tomorrow? Will people misunderstand or even hate you for doing this? Of course they will, for the great enemy wants us all to be mired in ugliness, misery and lies and he has no shortage of allies given he is the current ruler of this world. Yet there is a higher lord, a king of the Universe, and he is all about truth, beauty, and a brighter future. To align yourself with and swear fealty to him is a necessary step towards actualizing that beautiful vision that captured your heart and soul so completely.

    Forget logic or reason at this point. They are tools. Tools I (and others like me) are a master at using. They are means; means I and others like me will utilize towards the goal of actualizing this transcendent end. I don't care who or what stands in my way. I don't care how many "feelings" I hurt. I have a sense of objective morality that I will not violate. Feelings hurt that weren't the result of a violation of that are plain and simply not my problem. Cry me a river for all I care. There is a better tomorrow for both me and everyone else and the tears of the weak and the wicked aren't gonna stop me from bringing it about. And even if I fail, well, it was still worth the effort and perhaps my efforts will serve as a waypoint for those who come after me. I may have failed, but others will still be able to learn from my mistakes and maybe they will succeed where I failed. If nothing else, my efforts and possibly even my death counted. That is enough...

  34. #34
    Psychology BSc and statistics MSc Armitage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    The Netherlands
    TIM
    LIE-Ni 2w1-5 SX/so
    Posts
    375
    Mentioned
    82 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I agree with the overall gist of what you say, yet I would like to nuance one thing from my perspective as a Gamma, because this sentence is presented far too black-and-white to sit well with me.

    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    I don't care who or what stands in my way. I don't care how many "feelings" I hurt. I have a sense of objective morality that I will not violate. Feelings hurt that weren't the result of a violation of that are plain and simply not my problem. Cry me a river for all I care.
    I would say that, indeed, we would go a long way to realize our vision of a better tomorrow. However, most of us do care about the feelings of others, as long as they stem from real injustice, instead of imagined ones. For instance, I once listened to a conversation between a fellow psychology student and a twenty-something year old person with autism. The person with autism told him that she had passed by a threadbare teddy bear, which was placed to be picked up by the garbage collectors: 'He was all alone on the street and I felt so terribly sad for him. I walked over to him and took him home. Now he's in my basement, where I'll fix and nurture him.'
    The other psychology student asked why they felt sad for the teddy bear. The person with autism went on to explain that they underempathize with humans and overempathize with cuddly toys. To this the psychology student responded with: "That's interesting, because I wouldn't assume it possible to empathize with something that has no feelings." Frustrated, the person with autism replied: 'No feelings for you!'

    From this it was clear to me that it was a sensitive subject to the person with autism and that I would better be tactful about it. I thus merely asked them: "Do you have experiences of abondenment?" A long pause came until they answered: '... Yes...' This confirmation was what I needed to hear, in order to conclude that the person with autism was not actually empathizing with the teddy bear, but projecting their own feelings onto it. They were in denial about their projection and instead rationalized it as the teddy bear having feelings. Any disagreement with this they were quick to rebuke, because the feelings that the person with autism felt were real to them, though this didn't make their delusion real.

    In a way I felt sorry for the person with autism. I wasn't going to question their beliefs like my fellow psychology student did, because this would only cause hurt without actually dispelling the delusion. But neither was I going to agree with the person with autism just to spare their feelings, as this would only reinforce their delusion. I think that we Gammas do care about feelings, but also about truth.

    I personally think society has gone wrong by valuing every opinion equally, regardless of if it is the fact-based judgement of an expert or the opinion derrived from the feelings of a layperson. This is aggrevated by the "alternative facts" hype, which claims that "facts are also just opinions". I think that when the truth is attacked by such smear campaigns, Gammas stop caring about the feelings of the people who hold such opinions and only focus on defending the truth.

  35. #35
    chriscorey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    TIM
    what?
    Posts
    4,577
    Mentioned
    119 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    This is rather difficult. If a religious mystic could explain his/her experience of God in concrete terms that could be understood by everyone they'd have done so. I'll attempt it though in the name of science/understanding.

    Imagine experiencing a vision unbidden. You weren't trying to have one and it's not like you even wanted to have it. Yet... it's so beautiful. So beautiful it forces resolution to swell in your heart and brings tears to your eyes. A wonderful and joyous possibility that is eminently attainable and actually possible to realize in this reality. Well, now you've got a goal do you not? You've seen a possible beautiful and joyous future that is not just some utopian flight but rather, a realistic possibility. There is only one logical course of action now that you've seen it. You gotta bring it about. You gotta do your part in order to ensure this bright and wonderful future is the future that is actualized in this reality!

    Will it be hard? Yeah, but what was ever worth doing that wasn't hard? Will you have to sacrifice for it? Yeah, but why wouldn't you make sacrifices in order to realize such a beautiful tomorrow? Will people misunderstand or even hate you for doing this? Of course they will, for the great enemy wants us all to be mired in ugliness, misery and lies and he has no shortage of allies given he is the current ruler of this world. Yet there is a higher lord, a king of the Universe, and he is all about truth, beauty, and a brighter future. To align yourself with and swear fealty to him is a necessary step towards actualizing that beautiful vision that captured your heart and soul so completely.

    Forget logic or reason at this point. They are tools. Tools I (and others like me) are a master at using. They are means; means I and others like me will utilize towards the goal of actualizing this transcendent end. I don't care who or what stands in my way. I don't care how many "feelings" I hurt. I have a sense of objective morality that I will not violate. Feelings hurt that weren't the result of a violation of that are plain and simply not my problem. Cry me a river for all I care. There is a better tomorrow for both me and everyone else and the tears of the weak and the wicked aren't gonna stop me from bringing it about. And even if I fail, well, it was still worth the effort and perhaps my efforts will serve as a waypoint for those who come after me. I may have failed, but others will still be able to learn from my mistakes and maybe they will succeed where I failed. If nothing else, my efforts and possibly even my death counted. That is enough...

    Thank you for sharing. This sounds similar to the kind of love I wanted from the SLI, but never received...

  36. #36
    End's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    TIM
    ILI-Ni sp/sx
    Posts
    1,708
    Mentioned
    278 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage View Post
    I agree with the overall gist of what you say, yet I would like to nuance one thing from my perspective as a Gamma, because this sentence is presented far too black-and-white to sit well with me.



    I would say that, indeed, we would go a long way to realize our vision of a better tomorrow. However, most of us do care about the feelings of others, as long as they stem from real injustice, instead of imagined ones. For instance, I once listened to a conversation between a fellow psychology student and a twenty-something year old person with autism. The person with autism told him that she had passed by a threadbare teddy bear, which was placed to be picked up by the garbage collectors: 'He was all alone on the street and I felt so terribly sad for him. I walked over to him and took him home. Now he's in my basement, where I'll fix and nurture him.'
    The other psychology student asked why they felt sad for the teddy bear. The person with autism went on to explain that they underempathize with humans and overempathize with cuddly toys. To this the psychology student responded with: "That's interesting, because I wouldn't assume it possible to empathize with something that has no feelings." Frustrated, the person with autism replied: 'No feelings for you!'

    From this it was clear to me that it was a sensitive subject to the person with autism and that I would better be tactful about it. I thus merely asked them: "Do you have experiences of abondenment?" A long pause came until they answered: '... Yes...' This confirmation was what I needed to hear, in order to conclude that the person with autism was not actually empathizing with the teddy bear, but projecting their own feelings onto it. They were in denial about their projection and instead rationalized it as the teddy bear having feelings. Any disagreement with this they were quick to rebuke, because the feelings that the person with autism felt were real to them, though this didn't make their delusion real.

    In a way I felt sorry for the person with autism. I wasn't going to question their beliefs like my fellow psychology student did, because this would only cause hurt without actually dispelling the delusion. But neither was I going to agree with the person with autism just to spare their feelings, as this would only reinforce their delusion. I think that we Gammas do care about feelings, but also about truth.

    I personally think society has gone wrong by valuing every opinion equally, regardless of if it is the fact-based judgement of an expert or the opinion derrived from the feelings of a layperson. This is aggrevated by the "alternative facts" hype, which claims that "facts are also just opinions". I think that when the truth is attacked by such smear campaigns, Gammas stop caring about the feelings of the people who hold such opinions and only focus on defending the truth.
    Ho boy. Nothing will give you attachment issues as badly, swiftly, and as intractably as abandonment. In his heart he felt like the teddy bear and always wanted (and still wants) someone to come and rescue him from the fate that was about to befall the cuddly toy. Sadly, that's not healthy or realistic. One must save themselves and that starts by earnestly believing that you both can be loved and are worthy of being loved. People with broken attachment don't believe that deep down. The point of therapy should start from that premise. You must convince them of the above. If they have broken attachment, it's probably the root cause of their disorders and issues. Even if it doesn't fully cure them it'll help a lot. Like if you stop being obese and eat right it might not cure your other health issues, but boy will it make it better.

    You are correct that we do care about the feelings of others. However, they are not a primary concern if they aren't family, friends, lovers, or clients/patients. We care very deeply about their feelings, but the feelings of random strangers or the unwashed masses? Eh, if I can make em' happy great. If they whine and cry and get in my way for no good logical reason? Like I said, they can cry me a river.

    As for "alternative facts" and "facts are also just opinions" that sounds an awful lot like folks who claim to profess their or my "truth". Oh, if you want to set me off, say that and mean it to my face. "I'm just telling you my truth!" No. Just no. There is only the Truth. Either you accept that and comport yourself to it or you will suffer mightily in ways too numerous to list. Ayn Rand put it best: "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality." I think she was an ILI so it's no wonder the quote resonates even if I don't exactly agree with her overall philosophy. This is likely why Gamma types get set off when the truth (far as we can and do understand it) is attacked. Avoiding/denying the truth=avoiding/denying reality and avoiding/denying reality=immense suffering. Thus, to prevent that, the truth must be defended above all other considerations. The "feelings" of others most assuredly included.

    Finally, I wouldn't be so quick to trust in the "experts" absolutely. Every man has his price and if the PTB want a narrative pushed it shall be pushed by all the "experts" and woe betide any "expert" who speaks up against the ordained chorus. Sneaking suspicions can also end up being correct even if one has no factual evidence at the time. Your "instincts" aren't something that should be discounted if one hasn't the facts to explain them. Though I will say that "sneaking suspicions" and "instincts" are most assuredly not a valid basis for policy on their own.

    Quote Originally Posted by chriscorey View Post
    Thank you for sharing. This sounds similar to the kind of love I wanted from the SLI, but never received...
    One would think that everyone would love to be on the receiving end of deep, passionate, and abiding affection from their lover

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •