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Thread: Resisting your suggestive function

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    Default Resisting your suggestive function

    Pretty sure each person, at some point, resists their suggestive presumably to overindulge their lead. However, considering socionics theory, I'm interested in those who effectively resist their dual in favor of self supplying their own suggestive (which I'm not condemning)

    In other words, what happens when an SLI ignores a healthy IEE in order to engage Ne on his/her own. It's basically an SLI resisting a 4D Ne function to engage in a 1D Ne, perhaps, because he/she believes it's more comfortable.

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    I'm not sure if the suggestive is something that is usually resisted since it's both a valued and an unconscious function. There could be a situation where someone would be forced to ignore this suggestive function but I find it unlikely that it would be resisted. I also think that concentrating on your lead function wouldn't impede the suggestive function since they are best used in tandem.
    “What really frightens and dismays us is not external events themselves, but the way in which we think about them. It is not things that disturb us, but our interpretation of their significance.”
    ― Epictetus

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toro View Post
    I'm not sure if the suggestive is something that is usually resisted since it's both a valued and an unconscious function. There could be a situation where someone would be forced to ignore this suggestive function but I find it unlikely that it would be resisted. I also think that concentrating on your lead function wouldn't impede the suggestive function since they are best used in tandem.
    Jung writes a lot about resisting the suggestive (inferior). He sees it as unhealthy. Chapter X of Psychylogical Types.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Jung writes a lot about resisting the suggestive (inferior). He sees it as unhealthy. Chapter X of Psychylogical Types.

    What did he mean by "resisting" it? Resisting an attempt to develop it, avoiding it in other people in real life, or something else?

    Because I need Fi like I need oxygen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
    Pretty sure each person, at some point, resists their suggestive presumably to overindulge their lead. However, considering socionics theory, I'm interested in those who effectively resist their dual in favor of self supplying their own suggestive (which I'm not condemning)

    In other words, what happens when an SLI ignores a healthy IEE in order to engage Ne on his/her own. It's basically an SLI resisting a 4D Ne function to engage in a 1D Ne, perhaps, because he/she believes it's more comfortable.
    Have you ever seen a monkey try to repair a jet engine? That's me, trying to develop my Fi.

    In my considered opinion, people who try to develop their suggestive functions rather than simply using what is provided by their Duals are the kind of people who want to make their own nuts and bolts. Fine, you can do that, but they are not going to perform very well and they are going to cost you thousands of times as much as the ones you can just buy from the people who effortlessly make them for a living.

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    What did he mean by "resisting" it? Resisting an attempt to develop it, avoiding it in other people in real life, or something else?

    Because I need Fi like I need oxygen.
    I dont remember exactly what word he uses. But basically going too strong in the base loosing contact with your suggestive, to the point that it becomes negative and projected. Abnormal onesidedness.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Because I need Fi like I need oxygen.
    How so?
    φιλοκαλοῦμέν τε γὰρ μετ᾽ εὐτελείας καὶ φιλοσοφοῦμεν ἄνευ μαλακίας...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Jung writes a lot about resisting the suggestive (inferior). He sees it as unhealthy. Chapter X of Psychylogical Types.

    Yeah, I can see that a person can concentrate on their lead function to an unhealthy to degree, but I don't think they could resist their suggestive function from an outside source especially when concentrating on their lead function since they don't conflict with one another.
    “What really frightens and dismays us is not external events themselves, but the way in which we think about them. It is not things that disturb us, but our interpretation of their significance.”
    ― Epictetus

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    How so?
    @FreelancePoliceman, if I don’t have someone who loves me, my entire world seems to become pointless.

    The objects that I own become worthless and my accomplishments feel like wasted effort. Strat was right; LIEs need to know that someone cares about them. If they have that someone, then they can go forward knowing their flank is covered and they can accomplish amazing things.
    Without that someone, they sink into despair and leave in search of better opportunities.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 11-26-2021 at 03:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toro View Post
    I'm not sure if the suggestive is something that is usually resisted since it's both a valued and an unconscious function. There could be a situation where someone would be forced to ignore this suggestive function but I find it unlikely that it would be resisted. I also think that concentrating on your lead function wouldn't impede the suggestive function since they are best used in tandem.
    The suggestive are still two distinct function. Se is one function, while Ni is another. While I don't believe lead or suggestive impede one another, it is, IMO, possible to overindulge the lead due to it's comfort.
    As Adam Strange replied, a person is free to engage their suggestive and ignore a mentally healthy dual but is that the wisest choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Toro View Post
    Yeah, I can see that a person can concentrate on their lead function to an unhealthy to degree, but I don't think they could resist their suggestive function from an outside source especially when concentrating on their lead function since they don't conflict with one another.
    Interesting. I have an SEI friend who's very into her routine and what makes her most comfortable. She can, sometimes,
    be very resistant to ideas which might ask her to leave her psychological comfort zone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Jung writes a lot about resisting the suggestive (inferior). He sees it as unhealthy. Chapter X of Psychylogical Types.
    Aushra strayed from Jung's work to some extent. There were not even 8 "functions," according to Jung. There were 4.
    [Insert a generic quote here]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @FreelancePoliceman, if I don’t have someone who loves me, my entire world seems to become pointless.

    The objects that I own become worthless and my accomplishments feel like wasted effort. Strat was right; LIEs need to know that someone cares about them. If they have that someone, then they can go forward knowing their flank is covered and they can accomplish amazing things.
    Tbh, going by this, I could type as Fi Suggestive.
    [Insert a generic quote here]

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    @Adam Strange
    I meant if going by "Adam Strange = Fi Suggestive / this is how Fi Suggestive is."
    [Insert a generic quote here]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    @Adam Strange
    I meant if going by "Adam Strange = Fi Suggestive / this is how Fi Suggestive is."

    Lots of people, not only LIEs, need to know that they are loved by someone. But most LIEs might not know that about themselves. I don't think I consciously knew it until I read about it in Stratiyevskaya's description of ENTj-LIEs. And then I said, "Wait a minute. That's me."

    But needing to be loved by someone is not Fi-suggestive. I'm sure that ILEs need to feel loved, but when I showed an ILE a picture of an ESI that I was considering dating, he said "That woman looks evil." Fi vs Fe.

    So my description of Fi-suggestive is not very good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    Aushra strayed from Jung's work to some extent. There were not even 8 "functions," according to Jung. There were 4.
    This is a natural phenomenon so differences in terminology dont matter that much as long as the phenomenon is observed correctly. Jung describes 8 functions, or 4x2=8 (4 functions each in introv/extrav attitude)
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    This is a natural phenomenon so differences in terminology dont matter that much as long as the phenomenon is observed correctly. Jung describes 8 functions, or 4x2=8 (4 functions each in introv/extrav attitude)
    Observed "correctly" lol
    What I was basically saying is that Jung's model =/= Socionics model. It is also not mere terminology; there was the addition of Information Metabolism theory.

    Basically, you're calling the Suggestive function the Inferior function, and I'm saying these are simply two different models and it makes no sense to combine them.
    [Insert a generic quote here]

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    Observed "correctly" lol
    What I was basically saying is that Jung's model =/= Socionics model. It is also not mere terminology; there was the addition of Information Metabolism theory.

    Basically, you're calling the Suggestive function the Inferior function, and I'm saying these are simply two different models and it makes no sense to combine them.
    They are two models, but that doesn't mean that they are simply that or that they can't be combined. I think you are focusing too much on labels instead of the actual phenomenon. In a lot of cases you can in fact combine Jung and Socionics. In the case of suggestive / inferior it is about terminology because Jung and Socionics is talking about the same thing here. If this thread was about the polr then it wouldn't be possible to refer to Jung because he doesn't deal that much with the other weaker functions.

    I often refer to Jung because he has very high quality observations on the 8 functions, often the same things that people ask about, but were Socionics isn't accurate enough.

    The existence of psychic processes and their regularities is a phenomenon as old as mankind. It doesn't change just because you change some labels and make some additions to the model. This is ultimately about learning to observe these things in real life, so we'll not be able to settle this discussion now. There are also other threads were this has been discussed before.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Lots of people, not only LIEs, need to know that they are loved by someone. But most LIEs might not know that about themselves. I don't think I consciously knew it until I read about it in Stratiyevskaya's description of ENTj-LIEs. And then I said, "Wait a minute. That's me."

    But needing to be loved by someone is not Fi-suggestive. I'm sure that ILEs need to feel loved, but when I showed an ILE a picture of an ESI that I was considering dating, he said "That woman looks evil." Fi vs Fe.

    So my description of Fi-suggestive is not very good.
    I see.

    Now I'm curious as to how she looks, lol.

    Tbh, I think every (neurotypical) person needs to be loved. Those who don't think they do are deluding themselves, and the only reason they are probably able to do so is because of not truly being without it (no friends, no family, no one). Humans are social creatures.
    [Insert a generic quote here]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    Now I'm curious as to how she looks, lol.
    @Noir, I'll send you a PM link to her picture. She dropped off Match right after I saw her, and that link will vanish in a few hours, too.

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    I always figured Fi was a passionate function, the desire to genuinely love.. Whereas some folk play pro basketball cause it's fun or financially lucrative, an Fi valuer might play the game because they love it. Any action or commitment toward the sport of basketball is an act of their passion or love for it

    When a Te-ego desire Fi, they desire the type of love driven from within and not motivated by the breadth of social ideology.

    Fe and Fi are warm. Strong Fi users are also strong Fe users. Each person values Fe or Fi, but how one prefers to receive the psychological warmth will differ based on those parameters.

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